Contrabass Conversations

Jason reveals his "top secret" plans for the podcast!

Today's episode features a conversation with Ursula Dieterich-Pedersen, who is organizing the 5th European Biennial Double Bass Congress, which will be taking place in Prague this September 20-25. Ursula and I got a chance to talk recently about some of the details for the event. You can find all the details for this event at bass2016.eu.

Today's episode features David White, who works as an upright and electric bassist in the world of musical theatre. David is based in New York City and is currently on tour with the Bridges of Madison County. We talk about his time at the Berklee College of Music and working as a bassist for Royal Caribbean, moving to New York City and getting involved with the theatre scene, a week in the life of a theatre musician, developing networking skills, and much more. Enjoy!

Links:

• David's website
• Shirtwaist Sisters

Interview Highlights

Early Years

• mom choir teacher, dad lighting designer
• started playing drums, then started bass in 6th grade
• attended Berklee College of Music for two years

Working for Royal Caribbean's Brilliance of The Seas for 9 months

• weekly schedule varies depending on the length of the cruise
• production shows made by Royal Caribbean that are played for every cruise
  • three of these productions for David's ship
    • tango show
    • rock song medley
    • Broadway medley
• fly-ons or guest artists
  • people that would come in and just do their one show for that cruise
• big band set / jazz set depending on the show
• generally no days off

Getting into the theatre scene in New York

• David moved to New York with the intention of getting into the theatre scene
• joined the union (802), got the union book and started contacting bassists
• networking principles
• how subbing for a show works

The Zen mindset of playing the same music every night

Typical weekly schedules for a show

• Mondays typically travel day
• Tuesday is opening night for the show
  • morning is free
  • load-in during the afternoon - unpack instrument, get it plugged in, cords taped down, etc.
  • soundcheck at 5 or 5:30 - cast is also getting a walkthrough in the theater (weird entrances for that particular theater, etc.)
  • you get an hour before the show to eat and change
• Wednesday, Thursday, Friday have evening shows (mornings and afternoons are off)
• doubles on Saturday and Sunday
• close the show Sunday, pack up gear and head back to hotel

Gear: what David uses for shows

• upright
• electric
• amp
• accessories

Developing networking skills

Today's episode features Lloyd Goldstein, who has transitioned from playing in the Florida Orchestra to his current role working as a certified music practitioner at the Moffitt Cancer Center in Tampa. It's so exciting to speak with someone who has continued to evolve so dramatically in his craft and career throughout his life. Lloyd's path is unconventional and inspirational.

We get into all sorts details about Lloyd's life like his "burning bush" moment that propelled him into a career on the bass, his circuitous path to the Florida Orchestra, discovering François Rabbath, the multiple benefits he has experienced from his practice of yoga, and how he came to find himself in his current role as a certified music practitioner.

Links:

• Lloyd's website
• PBS program featuring Lloyd's work at Moffitt
• Music for Healing and Transition Program
• Albums and book

Interview Highlights

Early Years

• bass first musical instrument
• no bass lessons outside of 1/2 hour weekly public school lessons
• graduated high school early, started college at 16
• decided at 20 that he wanted to study bass
• had a "burning bush" moment propelling him to the bass during a table saw injury
• began to study bass through several Florida schools, eventually began to study with Lucas Drew
• practicing 5+ hours a day
• got a job in the Florida Gulf Coast Orchestra, eventually became the Florida Orchestra
• stayed there for 21 years

Discovering François Rabbath

• 10 years into his time at the Florida Orchestra, Lloyd felt like he had hit a wall in his bass playing
• went to George Vance workshop in Washington D.C. area where Rabbath was teaching
• that was "the" moment for him
• started making yearly trips to Paris to study with François
• would practice all day and walk around Paris at night
• learning the "first bow stroke" - the son premier on which all other bow strokes are based
• the forearm is the conductor and the wrist and fingers are relatively passive
• François says that we never unlearn anything - you don't get rid of bad habits - you add new skills

The Power of Practicing Yoga - 700 pieces of writing emanated from Lloyd's first two years of practicing yoga and 400 drawings - eventually compiled into Lloyd's book Inside Yoga

Finding balance between organized practice goals and "obsessing" on something

Working in a hospital environment

• Lloyd had started to compose simple melodies from which pieces emerged
• through yoga practice, kept getting this inner self message to do volunteer work
• began to volunteer at Moffitt Cancer Center
• learned about certified music practitioners through contact at Moffitt
• became certified and began to work in the Moffitt Arts In Medicine program
• took a year's leave from the Florida Orchestra to try out this new career and loved it
• got hired as an artist-in-residence at Moffitt 8 years ago
• performing versus giving a gift of music
• details about the experience of performing in this setting
• the idea of entrainment and meeting patients where they are
• entrainment has two aspects to it:
  • physical
  • psychological/emotional

This is a special episode featuring International Society of Bassists 2017 Convention Chair and Artistic Director Nicholas Walker discussing plans for the upcoming convention. This 50th anniversary convention looks like it will be outstanding, with several new developments unique to this event. Enjoy!

International Society of Bassists 2017 Convention June 5-10 at Ithaca College, New York

Other ISB-related interviews you may enjoy include:

• Douglas Mapp - current president of the ISB
• Madeleine Crouch - general manager of the ISB

• Headliners
  • Confirmed:
    • Sébastien Dubé
    • Etienne LaFrance
    • Christian McBride
    • Gary Karr (keynote speech)
  • Tentative:
    • Edgar Meyer
    • Renaud Garcia-Fons
• 2015 Competition Winner Recitals
  • Mike Forfia
  • Sam Suggs
• 2017 Competitions will take place Sunday and Monday (6/4 and 6/5)
  • Competition Chair - Sandor Ostlund
• Opening Night Celebration on June 5
• June 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 - convention days
• Young Bassists Program organized by Gaelen McCormick
• Adult Learner Double Bass Program organized by Elizabeth Steves
• Tentative plans with Chicago Symphony principal bass Alex Hanna for a daily hourlong "orchestra repertoire throwdown"
• Joel Quarrington - Friday night recital
• a time each day where we all work out on the bass together - led by David Allen Moore
• dozens of presenters
  • call for presentations will go out soon
• philosophical approach to the 50th anniversary convention
  • great talk with Gary Karr about the ISB 50 years ago compared to today
  • what connects us is that we all love and play the bass
  • coming into contact with the instrument is one of the themes Nicholas would like to dwell on for this convention
  • make sure that there's something at the convention for everyone
  • opportunity to geek out on very specific topics
  • get the luminaries of our bass world there - we covered this topic in our Douglas Mapp interview
  • probably have a session where people can sit down and talk with Gary Karr about his life and career
• the halls are fantastic - great acoustics for bass
• Grammy-winning sound recording technology specialist Brian Dozoretz will be recording events at the convention
  • Brian has recorded numerous luminaries in the bass world
• the convention will take place mostly in one building - vendors, sessions, etc.
• spaces for impromptu jams
• after hours event on campus at the pub
• Ithaca is within driving distance of most of the major Northeast population centers: New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Cleveland, etc.
• bass rental/borrowing for those traveling from far away—like Zipcar for basses

Today's episode features Ithaca College professor and International Society of Bassists president Nicholas Walker. In addition to teaching at Ithaca College, Nicholas performs between 170 and 180 concerts a years in a wide variety of musical genres, he is a prolific composer, and he has taught for many years along with Paul Ellison and François Rabbath at Domaine Forget in Quebec. Nicholas will be hosting the 2017 ISB Convention at Ithaca College next June 5-10.

We talk about his early musical influences, his experiences working with Paul Ellison and François Rabbath, balancing performing with other activities, and the Ithaca double bass experience. We also go into great detail about a day in the life of a student at Domain Forget, which is a topic that we talked about with David Allen Moore back on episode 162 of the podcast.

We also feature several musical excerpts from Nicholas, starting with excerpt of a tune with singer songwriter Tenzin Chopak called "Just Don't Go." We'll also play a few excerpts of some of Nicholas' solo bass compositions, and you can find complete recordings on his YouTube channel. Enjoy!

Musical Excerpts:

• "Just Don't Go" with singer songwriter Tenzin Chopak
• Chorale - solo bass
• Watermark - with cellist Elizabeth Simkin

Interview Highlights

Background and Early Years

• started on piano, picked up bass in 4th grade, playing jazz early on and music with friends in addition to the public school
• started taking lessons with Duane Rosengard, who was a student at Eastman at the time
• played in the Rochester Philharmonic Youth Orchestra
• studying with Mark Foley
• with many of the people surrounding Nicholas, there wasn't a big distinction between jazz and classical playing - it was all part of musical life for him

Working with Paul Ellison

• moving to Houston and meeting Paul Ellison
• Paul's teaching style
• the Domaine Forget double bass experience
• Buddhist philosophy - any student who shows up has earned the right to learn
• Paul's comfort moving from student to teacher role

Working with François Rabbath

• the right time to hear something from a teacher
• how, exactly, can he help each particular person
• his first experience meeting François

A Day in the Life at Domaine Forget

• put the bass players in a barn and let them work
• get up early
• 8:30 am - all meet together - 25 students plus the two teachers
• bodywork and 90 minute workout together
  • Stretching
  • Yoga
  • Feldenkrais Method
  • Alexander Technique
  • Pilates
• bass workout together - all done by ear and by rote - no music stands - working together in a big circle
  • shifting exercises
  • bowing exercises
  • specific left hand techniques
  • hand frames
  • drop thumb
  • expansion
  • pivoting
  • hammer on / pull off
  • fingering patterns
  • etudes
• at the end of the two weeks, they have a 90 minute routine that they do together without stopping - one exercise after another
• all this material comes from meeting with all the students the first night and asking them their goals for the camp
• 10 am - break followed by two hours of lessons
• lunch
• 1:30 pm - back in the barn for another 90 minute class with the senior faculty member
  • Paul does a lot of stroke work and body awareness
  • opportunity to introduce concepts like balance, arm weight, anything that came up in prior master classes
  • everything from the simplest open string playing to more complex bow bouncing, forward/reverse curve
• 3:00 pm - master class
• evening - concerts with notable visiting artists, bass recital, public master classes

The Double Bass Program at Ithaca

• largely modeled on the way Domaine Forget operates
• one of the nation's oldest conservatories - Sevcik and Rachmaninoff were both on faculty
• group classes for technique, orchestra rep, studio class in addition to lessons
• alternative lesson approaches in addition to traditional one-on-one lessons

Performing, Teaching, and Composing

• finding balance (or not finding balance)
• being at peace with the choices you make
• 170-180 concerts a year
• the concerts and individual practice are where the "important stuff" happens

Today's podcast features an in-depth conversation with Peter Tambroni. This is a "round two" conversation that builds upon the topics that we covered in our previous talk on episode 204. Today we dig into fallacies surrounding public school teaching, instrument setup, life planning, instrument insurance, practicing ideas, teaching philosophies, and much more. This episode is a gold mine for anyone interested in taking their teaching game to the next level!

Pete is the author of An Introduction to Bass Playing, which is now in its seventh edition, and is an active bass performer, teacher, and author. You can learn more about Pete on his website petertambroni.com.

• • you don't want to get too well-educated or you won't be hired
    • Pete has never found that to be true in the various districts in which he has worked
    • everyone wants the best person for the position
    • most districts will do what they can to give you credit for your past experience
  • the right person for the job is the right person or the department philosophy-wise and personality-wise
    • people tend to focus too much on the nitty-gritty skills - it's more about fit than anything
    • you should be interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you
• replacing people that are:
  • good and well-liked
  • good and not well-liked
  • not good and well-liked
  • not good and not well-liked
• Skills are easy to teach - personality and philosophy are not
• people tend to not ask enough questions in job interviews
• Pete always want to be somewhere where the administration supported fine arts performers practicing their craft - this was a question he posed in his interviews
• look at the distribution of music teacher positions - are people full-time orchestra, part orchestra and part general music, etc?
• what degree does fundraising play in the school? this can turn into a nightmare
• learning the other instruments as a music teacher
  • Pete took two extra semesters of violin and viola
  • music ed programs are not all requiring bass for music ed majors

• the condition that many school basses are in - so easy to totally neglect them
  • a bass with action that is too high is a catastrophically worse situation for a young player than a violin with action too high
• setup considerations for school instruments
  • fingerboard
  • bridge shaping
  • the need for a proper luthier
• the extreme difficulty created for younger bass students by basses that are poorly set up
• the advances that D'Addario has made in strings recently for students

• investing vs. saving
• index funds
• Apps and programs
  • Betterment
  • Wealthfront
  • Robin Hood
• IRAs
• Roth IRAs
• 403b investment programs for educators

• get a separate policy apart from your homeowners or renters insurance - these may not cover your instrument at a paying gig
• Clairon
• Merz-Huber

• teaching replacement fingerings
• the challenge for bass players of heterogeneous string teaching (starting in D major, for example)
• nothing beats Simandl for mapping out the fingerboard
• Thomas Gale's book Practical Studies for Double Bass is great for younger students
  • starts in 1st and 4th positions - allows for physical anchor point of thumb against the neck block
  • helps eliminate the "old-school bass vertigo"
• teaching shifting
  • finding the goal note should not be a fishing expedition!
  • Mathias Wexler article about shifting in American String Teacher journal: "Throwing The Dart and Other Reflections on Intonation" from the November 2004 issue of American String Teacher.
  • this is a link to the shifting exercise Pete describes
  • shifting practice
    • play
    • stop
    • evaluate
    • play correct note if not in tune
    • repeat above procedure until shift lands right on

• try to teach for 10 years down the road
• try to teach for the student's next teacher
• set people up so that things don't need to be fixed in the future
• having students nail a simpler piece versus struggle through a more difficult piece
• empathizing with your students
• don't ask questions to "put students in their place"
• it's never strings versus band versus choir - though there are doubles, there are "string kids," "choir kids," and "band kids" - offering all programs brings music to a larger portion of the student body
• we remember the emotion of experiences - emotion drives attention drives learning

• helps with empathy
• opportunity to observe other players
• opportunity to observe conductors
• being respectful of the student's time

• Pablo Aslan - tango bassist
• lloydgoldstein.com

Today's episode features jazz bassist and vocalist Katie Ernst. Katie was recently featured in the Chicago Reader, and Jason Moran describes her as "a great bassist, composer, and lyricist, she has an uncanny ability to mix traditions... following her voice is like reading a great novel." She is one of Chicago's most active young bassists, with two recent album releases: her solo project Little Words and her trio album Twin Talk.

We talk about Katie's years growing up in the Chicago suburb of Naperville, her "yearly check-ins" at the Birch Creek Music Performance Center with Jeff Campbell, studying at Eastman with Jeff Campbell and James VanDemark, and her educational work at the Jazz Institute of Chicago. We also cover the Betty Carter Jazz Ahead program, her job directing the big band at the Wheaton Conservatory, differences between the New York City and Chicago jazz scenes, and much more!

Katie's recent projects:

• Little Words - solo project set to the poetry of Dorothy Parker
• Twin Talk - trio album

Listener Feedback Links:

• Noah Yanicki - The Mountain and the Moon - new release - excerpt of Jackrabbit played
• David White - The Bridges of Madison County

Interview Highlights:

Early Years

• grew up in Naperville, product of Naperville public school system
• piano starting in 1st grade - sang in church and in choir
• took bass lessons with Jeremy Attanaseo in preparation for Eastman audition
• Studied with Jeff Campbell and James VanDemark - worked on Romberg, Simandl, vibrato, other fundamentals with VanDemark
• lots of summer camps in high school, fiddle camp, other camps - eventually found Birch Creek Music Center right before 9th grade - used Birch Creek as her "yearly check-in"
• Jeff Campbell - focused on deep fundamentals - applied lessons she learned during the summer throughout the following year
• becoming a jazz vocalist while in high school - singing with the jazz band, etc.
• the experience of playing the foundation and singing the melody simultaneously - interesting way to experience tunes
• Katie encourages her bass students to sing as well - incredibly helpful for young improvisors
• Katie got a bachelor of musical arts degrees at Eastman as well—kind of like a "doctorate lite' - she studied linguistic analysis tools in jazz scat singing
• Betty Carter Jazz Ahead Program in Washington, D.C. - where she met Jason Moran

What drew Katie back to Chicago

• didn't want to go directly to a masters program
• Eastman had a postgraduate internship program where they pay a stipend for you to work for a nonprofit
• Katie called the Jazz Institute of Chicago and proposed that she be an intern
• moved into Chicago itself - became connected with the community of creative music in Chicago
• differences between New York City and Chicago jazz scenes

Current Projects

• Twin Talk
  • interactive group - focus on exploring ideas together - elements of freedom and original compositions - groovy, melodic, experimental
• Little Words
  • project under Katie's name - Dorothy Parker poems set to music
  • powerful poems that have a singable quality to them - cultivated
• Lessons learned serving as Big Band Director at Wheaton Conservatory
  • listening to the whole band
  • thinking programmatically when selecting music
  • how to articulate to a group of musicians how to "get" a certain style
• Jazz Institute of Chicago - education program director
  • takes students to see performances
  • monthly meetings
  • opportunities to be an opening act for Jazz Institute concerts

Finding time for creativity

Today's episode is a live performance of Jon Deak's quirky quintet Lucy and the Count: Love Dreams from Transylvania. Written in 1981, this is a theater piece divided into three scenes featuring the solo bass in a dramatic, virtuoso role. In the first scene, you can hear the creaking of the ship morph into a dramatic first theme. The second scene is a dinner party and features each instrument "talking" during a dinner party. The words that the instrumentalists are intended to imitate are written in the parts along with the contours of the speech, making for some crazy sonic effects. The third scene portrays a ruined chapel with a coffin containing the Count. The Count turns into a bat and visits Lucy in a particularly twisted finale.

This performance was recorded live at the Midsummer's Music Festival for their Big Top Door County 25th Anniversary concert. I've had the pleasure of playing with this fine ensemble for the past decade, and it was a real treat to get to perform this soloistic work with them!

Lucy and the Count: Love Dreams from Transylvania

Live Performance: July 12, 2015 David Perry and Stephanie Preucil, violins Allyson Fleck, viola Walter Preucil, cello Jason Heath, bass Alan Kopischke, narrator

Purchase parts through J.W. Pepper Recording by Steve Lewis

Today's show features Brandon McLean, who just won the associate principal bass position for the Pittsburgh Symphony. Brandon has most recently served as principal bass of the Colorado Symphony, and prior to that he held positions in the Vancouver Symphony and the Florida Orchestra. Originally from Seattle, Brandon did his undergrad at the University of North Texas, his masters at the Boston Conservatory, and studied at Carnegie Mellon after that with Pittsburgh Symphony principal bassist Jeff Turner. He played in the New World Symphony before landing his first gig with the Florida Orchestra.

We dig into the details of the audition process, like how Brandon starts preparing long-term for the audition and how that preparation changes as the audition approaches, Brandon's technique routine, which he keeps up throughout the audition process, the benefits of getting to practice in a large space like a concert hall, and routines in the days prior to the audition. We also feature excerpts of Brandon performing the Dave Anderson Duets with Brendan Kane.

Books mentioned:

• Audition Success by Don Greene
• Performance Success by Don Greene

Interview Highlights

Audition Preparation Strategies

• the process starts right after finding out what the list is
• looks at what are the more problematic excerpts for him and begins by spending time on those
• about 5 weeks out, he starts to get more disciplined
• for a long time did the system of ranking what the more difficult excerpts are and spending the most time on those, but he found that then the audition would come up and they'd ask for the excerpts that he didn't spend as much time on
• breaks up practice session into 10 minute increments; practices for an hour or an hour-and-a-half in a couple of different segments in the day
• keeps himself disciplined to no more than 10 minutes on a specific excerpt
• breaks up the last as many ways as possible:
  • top to bottom
  • bottom to top
  • skip and do every 3rd excerpt
• 2-3 weeks out, he shortens that 10 minutes per excerpt to 3-4 minutes per except so that he's hitting everything briefly just about every day
• Brandon generally runs things at 75% tempo most of the time
• he can generally play this under tempo—it's getting them up to tempo that's the real issue
• there's some point between that 75% and 100% tempo that he can usually solve most of the technical problems
• problems associated with fast excerpts were dealt with away from those excerpts - dealing with technical studies that helped
• during audition prep, Brandon still spends at least 30-45 minutes still doing scales and technical exercises
• he cuts that down when getting really close to the audition

Brandon's Technique Routine

• pick a scale
• slow bow practice (whole notes) using Intonia software
• then does a different scale with half notes, quarter notes, etc - gets himself playing pretty quickly
• do something similar with arpeggios after that
• right hand practice
  • string crossings
  • spiccato
  • exercises to get his right hand moving a little quicker

Playing in a Large Space and Recording

• the benefits of getting to practice in a large space (concert hall) - he didn't get this until later in life
• getting over the idea that he doesn't really know what he sounds like objectively (similar to getting over the way your voice sounds when you play back a recording)
• the angle that you play the bass - no one else will ever hear your bass playing from that angle—it's such a specific thing
• things started to turn on the audition front for Brandon when he started to get really serious about recording himself
• Brandon had a pretty steady path of progress in auditioning - not advancing, then getting to semis, then making finals, then runner-up for a bunch of auditions
• Brandon realized at a certain point that he just wasn't a very natural audition taker
  • had to start treat audition taking as his job
  • dealing with the mental discipline of audition taking was something that took him a while to get a grasp of
• Don Greene books helpful in terms of centering, etc.
• Brandon has gotten away from thinking that he just needed to have a really good day to win an audition
• after teaching students and observing them nervous and not nervous, he has concluded that there isn't nearly as much difference in the two states as the students think
• When he wasn't doing well in auditions, he had actually lost those auditions months in advance

Routines as the Audition Approaches

• usually flies in the day before - flying in too early usually psyched him out
• it's amazing what tiny things can seep into your mind during an audition
• when he goes, he generally doesn't talk to people at the audition
• running is helpful
• doesn't try to change anything lifestyle-wise coming up to the audition - changes only cause problems

Links from Listener Feedback:

• Summer Camps for Bassists
• The Low Down by Danny Ziemann
• Paul Ellison Interview
• Todd Coolman Interview
• I Found a Dead Body