Contrary to Popular Opinion

Better tools won’t fix your marketing measurement. Better questions will.

Marketing leaders are constantly promised a secret advantage: proprietary data, exclusive technology, a black box platform, or an agency capability no one else can access. Todd Juneau and Kelly McGuire challenge that pitch in this compilation episode.

They make the case that the real differentiator is not a proprietary tool, but the people who know how to ask better questions, use available capabilities well, and connect investment to business outcomes.

This episode explores what it takes to make marketing mix modeling (MMM) useful, including consistent data, meaningful investment levels, skilled data science support, and a plan to act on what the model reveals.

Todd and Kelly also address how lower-funnel metrics can receive too much credit, how brands can identify diminishing returns, and how leaders can create more confidence in the incremental value of every marketing dollar.

Chapters:

• 00:00:00 Why channel metrics can hide the bigger picture
• 00:01:00 The myth of proprietary marketing technology
• 00:04:00 What agencies promise versus what clients receive
• 00:05:00 Can owned data create a real advantage
• 00:08:00 Capability matters less than how teams use it
• 00:12:00 The data required for marketing mix modeling
• 00:14:00 Why new brands should begin collecting data now
• 00:16:00 Making the case for modeling investment
• 00:19:00 The people and processes behind useful models
• 00:22:00 From interesting data to actionable decisions
• 00:23:00 How modeling builds confidence to spend more
• 00:25:00 Finding missed opportunities across the calendar
• 00:26:00 Balancing lower funnel and upper funnel investment
• 00:28:00 Measuring incremental growth with confidence

Links and Resources:

• Kelly Maguire on LinkedIn
• Todd Juneau on LinkedIn
• Vuja Dé Digital

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Contrary to Popular Opinion? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube to leave us a review!

We passed on pitching a brand that we didn't feel was a good fit. Then they came back and asked us to help evaluate the pitches of the three agencies still in the running.

In this episode, Todd and Kelly share what they learned from the other side of the table. Buying media is the easy part. The hard part shows up in month 10, when results flatten, a competitor arrives with real money, creative wears out, and the client asks a question nobody on the account can answer.

Kelly breaks down the two places every proposal falls apart: a working media budget too small for strategy to matter, and one flat fee stretched across paid media, analytics, creative, UGC, email, and SEO. Todd calls out a reality most agencies won't admit. The A team pitches. Whoever is left runs your business.

Before you sign your next agency agreement, here's what to vet: the strategist and account team who will still be there when things go red, a fee structure that rewards going the extra mile, and case studies treated as support rather than proof.

Contrary to Popular Opinion is a podcast from Vuja Dé Digital, a performance media agency.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) The moment the whole system falls apart
• (00:01:20) Reviewing a founder's agency pitches with nothing to gain
• (00:02:40) Buying media is easy, keeping it working is not
• (00:05:10) Is the working budget big enough for strategy to matter
• (00:07:50) One flat fee across media, analytics, creative, email, and SEO
• (00:11:30) Month one optimism versus month 10 silence
• (00:14:20) Vet the strategist and account manager, not the pitch team
• (00:17:30) The A team pitches, the C team runs your business
• (00:21:00) Specialists over generalists and building in real upside
• (00:26:50) Case studies, cherry-picking, and what they should actually prove

Links and Resources:

• Kelly Maguire on LinkedIn
• Todd Juneau on LinkedIn
• Vuja Dé Digital

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Contrary to Popular Opinion? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube to leave us a review!

AI is changing media buying faster than most marketers can keep up with. Meta, Google, and The Trade Desk are automating campaign setup, shrinking targeting controls, and making decisions in seconds that used to take media buyers hours. So does that mean brands need less expertise, or does it make experienced media buying and strategic guidance more valuable than ever?

In this episode of Contrary to Popular Opinion, Todd Juneau and Kelly Maguire break down what AI actually improves in digital advertising and media buying, and where it creates risk for brands and marketers.

They cover why AI raises the floor for beginners while also raising the ceiling for skilled media buyers and media planners, how weak data can send automated ad campaigns in the wrong direction, and why creative quality matters more than ever when platforms use audience response to guide ad delivery.

They also dig into the disappearance of entry-level learning opportunities in advertising, the danger of settling for "good enough" campaign performance, and the exact questions marketers should ask when choosing a media buying agency or building an internal marketing team.

If you're a CMO, brand marketer, or agency professional responsible for media investment, this conversation gives you a practical way to think about AI in advertising: as a powerful tool that still needs a capable, experienced human at the wheel.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00): The changing role of the media buyer
• (00:04:00): What advertising platforms are trying to automate
• (00:08:00): Why easier campaign setup does not create equal outcomes
• (00:12:00): Creative signals, faster testing, and human guidance
• (00:15:00): How bad data can derail automated campaigns
• (00:19:00): The skills the next generation of media talent will need
• (00:22:00): Why the media buyer may become an AI coach
• (00:25:00): How marketers should evaluate agencies and internal teams
• (00:29:00): Choosing strategic partners over automated sameness
• (00:33:00): Why using AI well can require more work

Links and Resources:

• Kelly Maguire on LinkedIn
• Todd Juneau on LinkedIn
• Vuja Dé Digital

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Contrary to Popular Opinion? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube to leave us a review!

AI search is changing how brands approach SEO, paid search, AEO, GEO, and Google Ads strategies.

In the final installment of this three-part Contrary to Popular Opinion series, Todd Juneau and Kelly Maguire sit down with organic search leader Tanner Zoromski and paid search strategist Fernanda Ford to explore how paid search and organic search now operate within one connected search ecosystem.

As Google AI Overviews expand, zero-click searches increase, and conversational search replaces traditional keyword behavior, marketing leaders need a new approach to search strategy.

In this episode, we discuss how SEO and paid search teams can share intelligence, how AI is changing paid media management, when branded search is worth the investment, how to measure incrementality, and why customer journey clarity matters more as Google automates more campaign decisions.

You’ll also hear how paid search data can uncover organic SEO opportunities, how organic performance can inform paid media strategy, and how brands can decide when to pay for visibility versus build authority over time.

If you’re a CMO, marketing leader, brand manager, SEO strategist, paid search marketer, or agency leader trying to understand how AI is reshaping Google search, this episode offers a practical framework for building a smarter, more connected search strategy.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Welcome and the new search ecosystem
• (00:04:00) Why paid search and SEO require different specialists
• (00:08:00) The skill sets behind paid and organic performance
• (00:12:00) How AI is changing paid search management
• (00:16:00) Zero click searches and shrinking search real estate
• (00:20:00) Conversational queries replace traditional long tail search
• (00:24:00) How paid and organic teams should share intelligence
• (00:29:00) Measuring incrementality and defending branded search
• (00:35:00) Competing for visibility with paid and organic tactics
• (00:40:00) The customer journey and the future of search

Links and Resources:

• Kelly Maguire on LinkedIn
• Todd Juneau on LinkedIn
• Vuja Dé Digital

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Contrary to Popular Opinion? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube to leave us a review!

Search isn't a list of links anymore, and brands that don't adapt are going to disappear from the customer journey without ever knowing why.

In part two of this three-part SEO/AEO/Paid Search conversation, Todd Juneau and Kelly McGuire sit down with organic marketing expert Tanner Zoromski to break down how AI Overviews, personalized results, voice search, and conversational shopping are changing the way people find and choose products.

They get into why fewer website visitors can actually mean more business, what it takes to make your brand understandable to AI systems and search engines, and the real risks brands need to watch for: paid influence inside AI answers, reputation attacks, biased recommendations, and smaller businesses getting crowded out.

If you're deciding where to put your marketing budget next, this episode makes the case plainly. Build a strong technical foundation. Publish content that's genuinely useful. Understand the questions your customers are actually asking. And start building your organic presence now, before you need it.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) The evolving future of search
• (00:01:55) What has changed on the Google results page
• (00:04:10) AI Overviews, ads, and zero click searches
• (00:08:30) Mobile search, voice answers, and changing behavior
• (00:12:00) How personalization changes SEO and AEO
• (00:15:25) AI is reshaping the path to purchase
• (00:21:15) Can brands game large language models?
• (00:26:45) Real examples of AI guided shopping
• (00:30:20) Reviews, reputation, and the risk of review bombing
• (00:33:05) The one organic move CEOs should make now

Links and Resources:

• Tanner Zoromski on LinkedIn
• Kelly Maguire on LinkedIn
• Todd Juneau on LinkedIn
• Vuja Dé Digital

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Contrary to Popular Opinion? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube to leave us a review!

Google is processing more searches than ever, yet most brands are watching organic traffic drop 30 to 80 percent. Todd Juneau and Kelly McGuire sit down with search expert Tanner Zoromski to explain why both things are true, and what AI overviews, Google SGE, ChatGPT, and Gemini mean for SEO, GEO, and AEO in 2026.

This episode covers technical SEO fundamentals, search intent, the real impact of AI overviews on organic traffic, how Reddit and YouTube now shape AI search results, whether GEO and AEO can be gamed, which large language models matter most for your brand, and why AI-generated content may be setting brands up for a reckoning.

If you're a marketer, CMO, or brand trying to make sense of search in the age of AI, this is the conversation you need.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) - SEO Isn't Dead: Meet Search Expert Tanner Zaromsky
• (00:02:26) - From Blue Links to AI Overviews: How the SERP Evolved
• (00:05:14) - Quick Answers vs AI Exploration: How Search Behavior Is Splitting
• (00:08:17) - What Hasn't Changed: Technical SEO and Search Intent Fundamentals
• (00:10:22) - Explaining the 30 to 80 Percent Organic Traffic Drop
• (00:13:51) - Why Brand Building Now Starts Before the Search
• (00:16:41) - Rapid Fire: SEO Myths, True or False
• (00:21:33) - GEO and AEO: Can You Game AI Search Results?
• (00:25:23) - Optimizing for ChatGPT, Claude, Copilot, and Gemini
• (00:28:36) - Will Google Penalize AI-Generated Content?

Links and Resources:

• Tanner Zoromski on LinkedIn
• Kelly Maguire on LinkedIn
• Todd Juneau on LinkedIn
• Vuja Dé Digital

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Contrary to Popular Opinion? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube to leave us a review!

Todd and Kelly address why your attribution model is probably wrong and why media mix modeling works. They explore how you can correlate whether media investment is genuinely driving business outcomes.

They address the difference between correlation and causation, explain why platform reporting alone can create a distorted picture of performance, and explore how media mix modeling can help leaders make better decisions with imperfect data.

The discussion also speaks to when a business is ready to invest in more sophisticated measurement, the operational gaps that make modeling difficult, and why full-funnel thinking remains essential for brands that want durable growth instead of short-term luck.

For marketing leaders, brand managers, and agency professionals, this episode offers a practical perspective on connecting strategy, creative, customer journeys, and media spend to the outcomes that matter.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Why brand value extends beyond product functionality
• (00:04:00) From simple attribution to complex customer journeys
• (00:08:00) Correlation, causation, and confidence levels
• (00:13:00) Why independent measurement matters beyond platform reporting
• (00:16:00) When businesses should invest in media mix modeling
• (00:20:00) Why many midmarket brands still lack sophisticated measurement
• (00:24:00) How teams make media decisions without a unified model
• (00:27:00) Brand, needs, wants, and the role of consumer perception
• (00:32:00) Building sustainable growth through full funnel strategy
• (00:36:00) Connecting communication strategy to the customer experience

Links and Resources:

• Kelly Maguire on LinkedIn
• Todd Juneau on LinkedIn
• Vuja Dé Digital

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Contrary to Popular Opinion? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube to leave us a review!

In this remix episode, Todd Juneau and Kelly Maguire revisit their sharpest takes on measurement, full-funnel growth, AI, agency accountability, and marketing mix modeling.

They dig into why many brands are still relying on incomplete measurement, how lucky streaks and singular tactics can easily stall growth, and why the funnel still matters in a fragmented customer journey.

They also explore whether AI is replacing creative strategy or simply raising the bar for better judgment, sharper thinking, and more accountable marketing.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) - Introduction: The Full Funnel Measurement Gap
• (00:01:03) - Why Less Than 25% of Mid-Market Brands Use Sophisticated Measurement
• (00:03:12) - The Real Barriers: Cost, Time, Expertise, and Accountability Avoidance
• (00:05:10) - Is the Traditional Marketing Funnel Still Relevant in 2025?
• (00:06:22) - The Facebook Era, TikTok Shop, and the Danger of Singular Tactics
• (00:07:45) - Why Full Funnel = Control, Sustainability, and Owning Your Growth
• (00:09:30) - Will AI Make Creative Strategy Obsolete?
• (00:10:42) - The Coach vs. Athlete Analogy: Creatives in an AI-Driven World
• (00:12:15) - The Agency Model Under Threat: Is AI Replacing Media Buying?
• (00:15:30) - When Should a Brand Actually Invest in Marketing Mix Modeling?

Links and Resources:

• The Case for Media Mix Modeling: Correlation Beats Guesswork
• The ROAS Trap: How Chasing Attribution Impacts Your Marketing
• Kelly Maguire on LinkedIn
• Todd Juneau on LinkedIn
• Vuja Dé Digital

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Contrary to Popular Opinion? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube to leave us a review!

In this episode, Todd and Kelly take on the marketing industry's obsession with AI tools, proprietary dashboards, and ever-expanding tech stacks.

Fresh off a call with a tech partner showcasing a Bayesian MMM platform fused with an LLM, they dig into why so many agencies and in-house teams treat owning a tool as if it were the same as having an advantage.

Their argument is simple and a little uncomfortable: the tool is never the value. The people using it, the strategy behind it, and the willingness to do the hard work of adoption are what actually move a business forward.

They get into:

→ Why "access" to a platform anyone can license is not a competitive advantage

→ How shiny object syndrome turns six-figure platforms into expensive paperweights

→ Why your most experienced people are often the slowest to adopt new tech (and why that's a good sign)

→ How holdco pitches lean on whiz-bang capability while staying quiet on how those tools change real decisions

→ The F1 car analogy that explains why specs mean nothing without a race plan

→ The four RFP questions that separate real fire from pure smoke If you're a CMO or marketing leader writing your next RFP, this one will change the questions you ask.

The takeaway: don't buy the smoke. Make sure there's real fire behind it.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) The Easy Button Myth in Marketing Tech
• (00:02:30) Can You Actually Trust What the AI Tool Tells You
• (00:05:00) Access Versus Real Competitive Advantage
• (00:07:30) Shiny Object Syndrome and the Expensive Paperweight
• (00:11:00) Why Senior Teams Resist Adopting New Tools
• (00:14:30) What Agency RFPs Get Wrong About Tech Stacks
• (00:18:00) Talent Beats Technology Every Time
• (00:22:30) The F1 Car Analogy: Specs Versus Race Plan
• (00:27:00) Trust, Relationships, and Honest AI Use
• (00:31:00) Do Not Sell the Smoke: The Real Takeaway

Links and Resources:

• Kelly Maguire on LinkedIn
• Todd Juneau on LinkedIn
• Vuja Dé Digital

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Contrary to Popular Opinion? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube to leave us a review!

Todd and Kelly dive into a provocative Harvard Business Review article exploring how AI-powered commerce agents in China are already making purchasing decisions on behalf of consumers — and what that means for the entire marketing industry.

Todd argues that these agents operate purely on algorithms, structured data, and utility signals, bypassing brand affinity and emotional connection entirely.

Kelly pushes back, insisting that human preferences, emotional buying behavior, and brand loyalty still play a critical role — especially in US markets where consumers aren't ready to hand over full purchasing autonomy to a machine.

The two debate whether performance marketing, attribution models, and traditional advertising funnels can survive in a world where the "customer" is an algorithm, not a person.

They explore Google's Zero Moment of Truth framework, draw parallels to self-driving cars, and land on a shared conclusion: upstream strategic thinking and creative problem-solving will be more valuable than ever for marketing leaders navigating this shift.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) - Cold open: How advertising shapes buying decisions today
• (00:01:05) - Episode intro and Arsenal heartbreak
• (00:02:00) - The HBR article: AI agents are conducting commerce in China
• (00:05:05) - What happens to performance marketing when agents buy for you?
• (00:07:10) - Todd vs. Kelly: Do AI agents follow brand preferences or pure algorithms?
• (00:11:00) - Todd's case: Agents optimize on price, utility, and data — not loyalty
• (00:14:00) - Kelly's counterpoint: Humans will never fully surrender emotional buying
• (00:18:30) - Attribution in a black box: Can you track what an AI agent does?
• (00:24:00) - The Zero Moment of Truth and why upstream marketing still matters
• (00:31:00) - Final take: What CMOs and agencies need to prepare for now

Links and Resources:

• Kelly Maguire on LinkedIn
• Todd Juneau on LinkedIn
• Vuja Dé Digital

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Contrary to Popular Opinion? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube to leave us a review!