Coworking Values Podcast

"I'm just trying to create the lunch table that I could never sit at myself."

The mistake happens in the first week.

You move to a new city, full of energy and ideas about community building. You've got credentials. Experience. A track record of making things happen.

So you announce your arrival. Start a meetup. Launch an initiative. Try to gather people around your vision.

And... crickets.

Tony Bacigalupo learned this lesson the hard way, even after founding Manhattan's first coworking space in 2008 and spending 18 years in the global coworking movement.

When he and his wife moved from New York City to Norwalk, Connecticut, two years ago, Tony did something different. Instead of leading with his experience, he started by becoming a regular at the local café. Instead of launching his events, he attended other people's meetings.

Instead of trying to be a leader, he committed to being a participant.

The result?

He's now leading weekly bike rides for Sustainable Streets Norwalk, has created a physical community directory in collaboration with city officials, and documented the entire journey through his "belongfulness" project.

This conversation reveals the counterintuitive truth about community building: the people who hunger for belonging are often those who have never found it themselves.

And the fastest way to create community isn't to start something new—it's to show up consistently to what already exists until leadership finds you.

For coworking operators, this reframes everything about how you build authentic community.

For anyone who has ever felt like an outsider, it's a blueprint for creating the belonging you wish you had.

Timeline Highlights

[01:16] "I led the charge to open what would become Manhattan's first coworking space back in 2008"

[03:01] Why Norwalk checked all the boxes: "not too big, not too small, vibrant, diverse, interesting"

[05:56] The hidden community everywhere: "There's so much going on here. You just don't know about it"

[07:48] The fundamental mistake: "It's hard to come into a new place and instantly become a leader"

[09:05] How opportunities started coming: "I looked for ways to become visible and consistent"

[09:54] The golden rule of community building: "build the cred and then let the mandate find you"

[15:23] Local newsletters as civic service: "filling the gap of the decline of local newspapers"

[21:09] Starting your radar: "You're listening for what is the signal that this place is interesting"

[22:35] The Sustainable Streets Norwalk story: from attendee to bike ride leader in two years

[24:48] Why community builders are different: "the popular kids growing up are never the community leaders"

[25:53] The lunch table revelation: "I'm just trying to create the lunch table that I could never sit at myself"

[28:10] Going beyond events: "find the city officials who are interested in supporting more community gathering"

[32:18] Local vs global influence: "When I focus on local, I have a locus of control"

[34:11] Finding Tony: "belongfulness.com" and "if you're working on something in your city, I want to hear about it"

The Popular Kids Never Become Community Leaders

Tony's most revealing insight cuts straight to the heart of why some people become community builders and others don't.

"The popular kids growing up are never the community leaders because the existing community infrastructure worked for them," he explains. "If you ended up finding your people just through sports or corporate or whatever the existing traditional infrastructure is, you're not looking to create community because your existing community stuff is already there for you."

This explains the hunger you feel at coworking conferences. That sense of finally being in a room of people who get it. As Tony puts it: "we so rarely are in a room of other people who feel the hunger to create the belonging that they couldn't find themselves growing up."

The coworking movement isn't just about flexible workspaces—it's about people creating the lunch tables they never had access to. Understanding this changes how you approach community building.

It's not about networking or growth hacking. It's about healing and creating a sense of belonging for people who've felt like outsiders.

The Cred-First Strategy That Actually Works

Most community-building advice gets this backwards. The conventional wisdom says: identify a need, create a solution, gather people around your vision.

Tony discovered something different in Norwalk. After 18 years of global coworking experience, he made himself invisible. He became a regular at the local café without mentioning his background. He attended Sustainable Streets Norwalk meetings for two years as just "a guy who showed up."

The breakthrough came when they needed someone to lead their weekly bike rides. Because Tony had shown up consistently, they asked him. He'd never led group bike rides before, but he'd built social capital. The mandate found him.

"In contrast, if I try to come in and do something from scratch, it's very, very hard for me to get people to show up," Tony admits. "It's better if you build the cred and then let the mandate find you."

This mirrors exactly how he became a coworking space founder in the first place—by showing up to someone else's tech meetup until people started asking him what to do.

The Hidden Community That's Already There

Bernie shares a familiar experience: when his wife moved to London from Argentina, they explored more of the city in three years than he had in 15 years of living there. "You just are immune to it," he reflects. "I've only been to the Tower of London once."

Tony discovered the same thing in Norwalk. While locals complained "there's nothing to do," Tony was finding vibrant communities, interesting projects, and regular events. The difference? He put "a very unusual amount of effort into mapping these kinds of things out."

His method is surprisingly simple: Start with Google Maps and drag around to see what pops up. Search for cafés, bars, libraries, bookstores, and community spaces.

Look for places with "charming second-hand furniture and colourful paint on the wall." Follow local Instagram accounts and see what suggestions they make.

The infrastructure for the community often exists—it's just invisible to those who aren't actively seeking it.

For coworking operators, this means your role isn't just providing workspace. You're making the invisible visible. You're the connective tissue that helps people discover what's already happening around them.

Local Newsletters as Civic Infrastructure

One of Tony's most practical insights involves the decline of local newspapers and the rise of community newsletters. He discovered a growing movement of people starting local newsletters to "fill the gap of the decline of local newspapers."

These aren't food blogs or lifestyle content. They're curated information about what's happening in town. Simple civic service that gives people "access to information about why they should leave the house this weekend instead of just staying at home to ignore their TV while scrolling on their phone."

Tony's theory is compelling: "We can't beat the addictions of the algorithms and the internet. But if you get invited to go do something in real life, then that's a hard thing to turn down."

For coworking spaces, this presents a clear opportunity. Instead of trying to compete with social media for attention, become the trusted source for what's happening in your local community.

Not as a marketing strategy, but as a genuine civic contribution.

The Google Doc That Changes Everything

Both Tony and Bernie discovere...

“We trained people in Camden. Our alumni trained others in Gaza. It was peer-led — and it worked.”

Dan Sofer didn’t mean to build a coding movement.

But over a decade, through a mix of grit, generosity, and peer-led magic, that’s precisely what happened.

In this episode, Bernie sits down with Dan, founder of Founders and Coders — the radically open, tuition-free coding boot camp based at Space4 in Finsbury Park — to trace how one small meetup evolved into a deeply human education model.

You’ll hear how a British Library study group turned into Gaza Sky Geeks.

How Camden Collective gave them a chance. And how Space4 in Finsbury Park became more than a desk — it became a home.

Together, they explore the power of peer-led learning, the uncertain future of developer jobs in an AI-saturated world, and what it takes for coworking spaces to become a form of civic infrastructure.

This isn’t just an episode about training software developers.

It’s a blueprint for how coworking, community, and skill-building can entwine to create something resilient, real, and deeply needed — especially in places under siege.

If you’ve ever asked, “How do we actually build something that lasts?”Face the front! This is one for your notebook, kids!

⏱ Timeline Highlights

[00:59] “I’ve thrown most of my energy into this for 12 years.”

[02:20] What Founders and Coders does (and doesn’t)

[04:15] How Camden Collective gave them a vital early boost

[05:42] Why Dan said yes to Space4 and never left

[06:16] The overlooked power of peer-led learning

[08:59] What AI is doing to the developer job market right now

[10:45] How COVID, layoffs, and funding shifts reshaped their model

[14:42] “We’re still here, but the world around us is different now”

[15:39] Real talk: how do they serve the local community?

[18:55] What makes coworking and training work together

[21:44] From London to Gaza: the story behind their international programmes

[23:45] What happened to Gaza Sky Geeks — and what’s still possible

[28:55] How peer-led training created a global alumni-led movement

[32:28] Why informal learning environments change everything

[34:00] Dan’s invitation to coworking spaces, thinking about AI and education

[35:15] Wednesday Community Lunches — and why you should come hungry

🎯 Thematic Breakdown

Peer-Led Learning Is the Future — But We’ve Forgotten How to Do It

Dan shares how he rediscovered the magic of learning in community, without a “sage on the stage.” It’s not a theory. It’s a method. And it works.

How Camden Collective and Space4 Sparked a Movement

A coding bootcamp in a donated space.

A coworking co-op that said yes. Dan reflects on the generosity and risk that made Founders and Coders possible.

Why Software Development Won’t Look the Same in 3 Years

AI isn’t coming. It’s here.

Dan explains how code is already being written differently — and what today’s learners need to stay relevant tomorrow.

COVID, Layoffs, Apprenticeships — and the Grind Behind the Growth

2020 was the best and worst year.

A glimpse into how they kept going when fees vanished, and why apprenticeships became the next step.

Coworking as Civic Infrastructure: A Real London Case Study

Most spaces host. Space4 committed.

Dan explains why this partnership works — and how other coworking spaces can do the same (if they stop being afraid of mess).

Gaza Sky Geeks and the Unfinished Legacy of Peer-Led Training

From Nazareth to Gaza, Hebron to Hackney — the wild and fragile international arc of Founders and Coders, including what remains after the

Serendipity Is Real — But So Is Showing Up Every Week for 12 Years

Dan didn’t plan to be here. But he never left. And that quiet, stubborn consistency may be the most powerful lesson in this episode.

🔗 Links & Resources

Dan Sofer & Founders and CodersFounders and Codershttps://www.linkedin.com/in/dsofer/

Community & CollaborationGaza Sky GeeksYala Digital Co-opOutlandishCamden CollectiveSpace4 Tony David Author

Coworking CommunityLondon Coworking AssemblyCoworking Values LinkedIn GroupWorkspace Design Show – Feb 2026

🧠 One More Thing

Coworking can be more than just flexible workspaces — it can also serve as infrastructure for learning, resilience, and connection across borders.

Every episode of the Coworking Values Podcast explores the values that make this possible: Accessibility, Community, Openness, Collaboration, and Sustainability.

If this resonates, rate, follow, and share. You never know who’s listening — or who needs this blueprint right now.

Community is the key 🔑

"For someone who's been in the industry for eight years, I get tired of telling people what coworking is. I want people just to know and understand."

Sam Shea discovered coworking the way most brilliant ideas are found — by accident, whilst dreaming up something else entirely.

As a kid obsessed with entrepreneurship (selling bookmarks to neighbours, attempting to rebrand rocks), she'd imagined something called "the Living Space" — a place where people could gather, work, and share meals outside their homes.

When the internet finally let her research this concept properly around 2010, she made the deflating discovery that every entrepreneur eventually makes: someone had beaten her to it.

But rather than disappointment, this led to fascination.

Here was proof that her instincts were sound; this hunger for a community workspace was universal enough to spawn an entire movement.

The problem? Her small town outside Charlotte had no coworking spaces. The nearest was WeWork in New York City — miles away from where real people like her lived.

Fast-forward to 2025, and Sam sits at the intersection of that same tension.

Through her role at Liquid Space and as founder of Future Leaders of Coworking, she witnesses the full spectrum of the industry daily — from neighbourhood spaces like Alkaloid Networks in Atlanta (where she's a member) to enterprise-scale operations.

Sam is watching thousands of career-hungry professionals enter an industry that still can't properly define itself to the outside world.

The evidence is maddening: London alone has 1,300 coworking spaces, yet when you set up your LinkedIn profile, you're forced to choose between "real estate," "management consulting," or "hospitality."

It's like being vegetarian in a restaurant that only serves chicken or beef.

Sam and her team at Future Leaders have launched a Change.org petition demanding LinkedIn recognise coworking as its own industry category — because you can't build careers in a sector that doesn't officially exist.

Timeline Highlights

* [01:11] "I'm known for aggregator strategy, community building. I'm known for being a connector. I would say I would like to be known for being a little bit visionary."

* [03:06] "There were times where I needed to get away from home, whether I was an angsty teenager and I just wanted to break free from my parents."

* [05:06] "I had dreamed up a concept called the Living Space... I thought, Why isn't this in my town? That would be amazing."

* [08:36] "I basically didn't have any friends in Boston. I was seeking connection, and I thought, No one's going to invite me out, I might as well invite others."

* [16:25] "You don't have to code-switch into a different corporate being. When you show up there, you can come as you are."

* [19:08] "It's like improv. You're quick on your feet when you're in a community management role."

* [23:24] "I personally did it for three years, and that was plenty of time for me to understand it. But I also miss that community management role all the time."

* [25:30] "I noticed that there were no organisations devoted to future leader success across the coworking world."

* [28:08] "I've often thought, Sam, if only you could go to LinkedIn and when you choose your industry, there was a drop-down menu and you could click coworking, what do you think that would do?"

* [29:04] "That is something that Future Leaders of Coworking has started. We did do a change.org petition."

* [31:29] "You can find Future Leaders of coworking at futureleadersofcoworking.com."

The Community Manager Career Paradox

There's something beautifully broken about how people stumble into coworking careers.

Unlike hospitality — where you start as a bartender, become shift leader, then restaurant manager in a predictable progression — coworking careers feel like career improv.

Sam spent three years as a community manager and describes it as the ultimate generalist training: "It's managing the P&L of the space, so overseeing the finances and making sure that you're on par for KPIs. It covered so many different things."

The role demands everything at once. You're an event planner, operations coordinator, salesperson, financial analyst, therapist, and social connector.

As Sam puts it: "There are very few jobs in which you spend that many hours a day with your end-user customer." The intimacy is real — she's still close friends with members from spaces she managed years ago.

But here's the career confusion: what comes next? Sam met people who've done community management for one year, others for ten years. The path isn't clear because the industry itself is still writing its own job descriptions. If you work for a single location with no scaling ambitions, you might have access to fewer than five total roles.

If you're willing to move between brands, you can craft a career around marketing, operations, or member experience — but you're essentially building the bridge as you walk across it.

The promise of Future Leaders of Coworking is to make these paths visible.

Not to create one rigid ladder, but to help people see the multiple directions possible within an industry that's diverse enough to support everything from neighbourhood third places to enterprise workspace solutions.

The Third Place That Saved an Angsty Teenager

Sam's relationship with third places started with necessity, not theory.

Growing up in Davidson, North Carolina, her options were limited: the coffee shop, the library, or CVS Pharmacy. "If I was not at the coffee shop or the library, I was at the CVS Pharmacy Store. That's where I would hang out and gather with my friends."

These weren't Instagram-worthy spaces or designed community hubs. They were refuges — places where an angsty teenager could escape family dynamics without paying an entry fee.

The library became her sanctuary, offering both solitude for projects and the possibility of unexpected encounters.

This early hunger for places that weren't home or work explains her adult obsession with bringing people together.

She describes herself as someone who "could never sit with myself" — always throwing herself into clubs, starting a babysitter's club, a dog walker's club, anything to create connection points for people who might be too shy to make those bridges themselves.

The pattern continued in Boston post-graduation, where loneliness drove her to start the Boston Ladies Brunch Club on Meetup.com. "No one's going to invite me out; I might as well invite others."

The group grew to hundreds because she'd identified something universal: the need for structured social connection in a new city.

What's fascinating is how this personal need for gathering spaces evolved into professional expertise in creating them.

Sam's instinct for reading room dynamics — knowing who to call on first during icebreakers, identifying natural advocates — comes from years of being the person desperate enough to organise the thing that didn't exist.

The Spectrum Problem: From Neighbourhood Gems to Corporate Chains

Sam occupies a unique vantage point in the coworking...

"We are the bridge that can make the trust between the system and the association that can make the trust become more vivid."

Episode Summary

The swimming champion had been waiting tables for months.

Nobody in the official integration system had bothered to ask the right question.

They wanted to know about his qualifications, his work history, and his Swedish language skills. All the bureaucratic boxes that fit neatly into government forms.

But when Mikael Johansson's team met him, they asked something different: "What did you do in your spare time?"

That question changed everything. University swimming champion in Syria. Youth coach. Skills that had nothing to do with his CV and everything to do with what Malmö's community needed.

One training session with a local swimming club later, they hired him immediately. His Swedish wasn't perfect, but his skills were exactly what they were looking for.

This is the story of Föreningslots Malmö—literally "Association Guide," but "lots" means tugboat. The small, powerful boats that guide massive ships safely into harbour. That metaphor isn't accidental.

Mikael runs a model that challenges everything we think we know about integration, networking, and how communities work.

Since 1945, Malmö Ideella has been the umbrella organisation for approximately 300-400 member associations, including churches, football clubs, and educational groups.

When refugees started arriving in larger numbers, they didn't just process them through government systems. They created tugboats.

Malmö sits connected to Copenhagen by a bridge, and 185 different countries are represented in one place.

However, what makes it remarkable is that when newcomers arrive, they are not interrogated about their past. They get asked about their dreams.

The ResMove project takes this further, connecting refugees specifically to coworking spaces across Europe.

Not just for the workspace, but for the networks, mentorship, and community connections that make landing in a new country possible.

What emerges is a working alternative to the polarisation and exclusion that defines so much of our current moment. It's messy, human, and surprisingly effective.

Timeline Highlights

[01:08] Setting impossible standards: "I want to be known for having written the world's best novel ever"

[02:03] Malmö revealed: Sweden's third-largest city, bridge to Copenhagen, "185 different countries representing Malmö"

[04:45] From project to permanence: Föreningslots started as asylum seeker support, became essential infrastructure

[06:43] Historical roots: "We started in 1945, in the aftermath of the Second World War"

[08:36] The crucial difference: "Associations don't ask questions about things that maybe are hard to talk about"

[10:51] The bridge principle: "We are the bridge that can make the trust between the system and the association"

[13:46] ResMove's mission: "I see the coworking spaces like a catalyst for these people"

[17:19] Bernie's Faceworks connection: LinkedIn profiles vs CVs and why community matters more

[19:54] The swimming champion revelation: "We asked him about what you do in your spare time"

[22:12] Network multiplication: "If we could help them get more contacts that have more contacts themselves"

[24:50] The tugboat metaphor: "Föreningslots" means association guide, "lots" means tugboat

[26:07] Facing invisible barriers: "There are obstacles when it comes to the economy", and hidden norms

[28:16] Two-way transformation: "We will also help the coworking spaces to be more inclusive"

[29:18] Bernie's insight about feeling seen: "You have to go and invite people one by one"

The Questions Nobody Asks

Government integration programmes ask the wrong questions. They want qualifications, work history, and language proficiency. All the official stuff that fits into databases and funding reports.

Mikael's team asks: "What did you do in your spare time?"

That shift in curiosity revealed a Syrian university swimming champion who'd also coached youth. His Swedish wasn't perfect, but his skills were exactly what the local swimming club needed. After one training session, they hired him immediately.

"No one had asked him about what he had done when he was studying or working; they just asked about those things," Mikael explains. "But we asked him about what you do in your spare time."

The lesson extends beyond refugee integration. Most networking fails because we lead with credentials instead of curiosity about what people actually love doing.

Bernie recognises this from his work in London: "So many people have got jobs they wouldn't apply for, but they've just been in the room and hit it off with someone."

You can't teach networking, but you can create conditions that foster it naturally.

Why Associations Beat Bureaucracy

"Associations don't ask questions about things that maybe are hard to talk about," Mikael explains with quiet conviction.

When you've fled your country, the last thing you need is another interrogation about your past.

Government systems demand documentation, explanations, and proof of who you were before your world fell apart.

Football clubs care about whether you can coach kids. Churches want to know if you play an instrument. Educational groups need help with accounting. The barriers to entry are human-sized, not institutional.

"In general, the associations are much more welcoming to newcomers," Mikael notes. They operate on trust and contribution, not paperwork and background checks.

This insight cuts deeper than refugee work. It reveals how real community integration works for anyone landing somewhere new, whether you're fleeing war or just moving for work.

The Tugboat Principle

Bernie gets visibly excited when Mikael explains the metaphor: "I'm above average excited about that, folks, because here in Vigo, a lot of big container ships and cruise liners come in all the day... There's all these tugboats in the Bay of Vigo guiding these bigger boats in all the time."

Föreningslots translates as "Association Guide," but "lots" specifically means tugboat.

Not the tourist guide you'd hire for sightseeing, but the small, powerful boat that guides massive ships safely into harbour.

Malmö Ideella acts as the tugboat for 300-400 member associations. They know which football club needs a coach, which church group needs someone who speaks Arabic, and which educational association could use help with numbers. Government systems don't have this granular knowledge of community needs.

"We know the associations," Mikael explains. "So we are the bridge that can make the trust between the system and the association that can make the trust become more vivid."

The tugboat doesn't do the work of the big ship. It ensures the boat reaches its destination without colliding with anything.

The Network Multiplication Effect

"If we could help them get more contacts that have more contacts themselves, so the person gets a bigger network, then we have done even more than maybe a lot of governmental bodies are doing."

This is where Mikael's model transcends traditional integration work. It's not about finding one job or making one connection.

It's about connecting people to networks that multiply opportunities naturally.

The swimming coach didn't just get hired. He gained access to the entire swimming community in Malmö—parents, other coaches, sports administrators, and people who might need his skills in completely different contexts.

Bernie connects this to his experience with Urban MBA in London: "You can't teach networking.

You have to let it happen with people, and throwing people together to ...

"It's not necessarily your boss telling you to do yoga, but yourself thinking that if you don't do yoga, if you don't do these networking events, you might not be as good as you would like at your job."

The wellness class ends.

Everyone rolls up their mats, checks their phones, and heads back to their desks. Productivity restored. Focus recharged. Another tool in the productivity arsenal.

But what happens when yoga stops being about you and starts being about your quarterly targets?

Dr. Adèle Gruen has spent years immersed in coworking spaces, observing how community activities evolve into business development opportunities.

Her research reveals something uncomfortable: the very things that should restore us—yoga, networking events, communal meals—are being weaponised for work.

As Junior Professor at Université Paris Dauphine-PSL, Adèle's 2021 paper "Customer Work Practices and the Productive Third Place" mapped how coffee shops became work accelerators.

Her latest research on "Consumptive Work in Coworking" exposes how coworking spaces turn everything—from baking classes to meditation—into productivity tools.

It isn't about corporate wellness programmes imposed from above. It's about the pressure we put on ourselves to turn every moment into a work opportunity. Adèle calls it "neo-normative alienation"—when you become your productivity overseer.

Currently researching urban foraging ("I like weird stuff and I like people who do unexpected things"), Adèle embeds herself in the communities she studies. She attends workshops, learns skills, and spends hours understanding how people work and live.

This conversation reveals the collision between two worlds: the traditional third place, which built community through leisure, and the emerging "productive third place," where everything becomes work.

For coworking operators, it's a mirror.

For community builders, it serves as a warning.

For anyone who has ever felt guilty for not networking at a yoga class, it's validation.

Timeline Highlights

[01:29] The research curiosity that drives everything: "I like weird stuff and I like people who do unexpected things"

[06:26] Why academic literature got third places wrong: "We didn't buy this discourse that people who worked in cafés were only silencing it"

[09:52] The birth of "customer-workers": "We played around with cost worker or work customer... how do you do when there is no word to describe what you're seeing?"

[12:56] Professional identity performance: "They advertise themselves as working in that space... they benefit from the imaginaries of that coworking space brand"

[15:28] Bernie's realisation about the productivity machine: "It feels like you go to work, you go through the door, and you never have to leave"

[17:57] The self-imposed pressure trap: "It's not necessarily your boss telling you to do yoga, but yourself thinking that if you don't do yoga... you might not be as good"

[18:49] The burnout solution that creates more burnout: "The solution was to propose more meditation and wellness within the space. It's a never-ending circle"

[20:10] community as marketplace: "Community enables them to sell better... the bigger the coworking space, the bigger the community, the more it resembles a market"

[22:14] The proximity economy: "70% of people in coworking spaces said their business came from the people sitting near them"

[24:46] work as lifestyle aspiration: "At least your work is more fun and you're not stuck behind a desk"

[26:19] The exclusion problem: "A lot of people cannot engage in after-work networking events, especially if they involve alcohol"

[27:16] What's next: "Part-time consultant, part-time farmer... people who work differently in the new ways of working"

The Customer-Worker Revolution

The coffee shop wars began with a simple observation that academics had overlooked entirely.

"We didn't buy this discourse that was saying basically that people who worked in cafés were only silencing it and being very detrimental to the cafés," Adèle explains. The research establishment viewed these laptop warriors as parasites destroying the social fabric of third places.

But something more complex was happening. Ray Oldenburg's "third place"—spaces dedicated to socialising between home and work—was evolving. Customer-workers weren't just exploiting coffee shops; they were transforming them into "productive third places" that actively cater to work whilst maintaining social energy.

The language gap reveals the shift: "We played around with cost worker or work customer... how do you do when there is no word to describe what you're seeing in your data?"

When you need to invent words, you know something fundamental is changing.

The Professional Identity Marketplace

Here's where coworking spaces become something more sophisticated than laptop squatting.

"They advertise themselves as working in that space, and some of the coworking spaces have a very powerful brand," Adèle notes. "Independent workers benefit from the imaginaries of that coworking space brand that trickles down to their own business."

Bernie recognises this immediately: "I know people that have said they work in some of those places... they will go, 'Oh, we're in the same office as X company' or 'Yes, we're in the same building as the BBC.'"

This isn't proximity bragging—it's strategic identity construction. Coworking spaces serve as platforms for professional legitimacy, particularly for independent workers who lack traditional institutional credentials.

The brand association works both ways. Members gain credibility from prestigious coworking brands, whilst spaces cultivate reputations that attract high-value members. It's an upward spiral of perceived status.

But it creates exclusions based on who can afford premium spaces and who understands how to leverage brand associations for business development.

The Consumptive Work Trap

Bernie's realisation cuts to the heart of the transformation: "It feels like you go to work, you go through the door, and you never have to leave. There's this industrial productivity machine going on."

This is "consumptive work"—the strategic use of consumption activities for work purposes. Yoga classes become focus sessions. Baking workshops become networking events. Communal meals become business development opportunities.

"When they do yoga, it's also about finding productivity and focus. When you attend a baking class, it's also for networking, business development," Adèle explains. "What we are showing is that when you take work into these leisure activities or wellness activities, it becomes work, and then you're not doing it for its own sake."

The psychology is insidious. It's not corporate mandates forcing you to network over cocktails. It's the pressure you put on yourself.

"It's not necessarily your boss telling you to do yoga, but yourself thinking that if you don't do yoga, if you don't do these networking events, you might not be as good as you would like at your job."

This is "neo-normative alienation"—when you become your productivity overseer.

The Burnout Feedback Loop

The solution to burnout in coworking spaces reveals the depth of the problem.

"Some of the coworking managers were very much aware of the burnout situation," Adèle observes. "But the solution was to propose more meditation and wellness within the space. It's a never-ending circle."

More wellness becomes more work. More community pressure becomes more pressure. The very ...

Episode Summary

"We are being driven by a blind system that we support when we remain blind to it."

Helena Norberg-Hodge doesn't talk about going local like it's a lifestyle choice.

She talks about it like someone who's spent 50 years watching globalisation systematically dismantle communities, turn citizens into consumers, and leave people desperately lonely in a world designed to profit from division.

As the founder of Local Futures, Helena has witnessed the shift from collective citizen action to individual consumer guilt.

She's seen how trade treaties quietly handed power to global corporations, how algorithms now thrive on polarisation, and how the last five years of manufactured division aren't an accident.

But she's also seen something else—the quiet revolution happening in community gardens, local food economies, and yes, coworking spaces where people are choosing to step back from the madness.

This isn't another conversation about sustainability or buying different products.

It's about understanding that your coworking space sits at the intersection of economic resistance and psychological healing.

About why human connection comes before nature connection. About using the currency you already have to build the infrastructure you actually need.

Helena breaks down the invisible empire of global trade, explains why the "inner peace first" movement keeps us trapped, and offers concrete steps any coworking space can take to become an anchor for local resilience.

Tilley, Bernie and Helena discuss bread in Galicia, burnout in London, and the healing power of working with soil and seeds.

We also talk about cash—the kind you can hold, the kind that doesn't disappear into blockchain energy consumption, the kind that can rebuild a local mill through grassroots sweat and tears.

This episode is for anyone who senses the future isn't digital—it's local.

For anyone building a community who needs permission to slow down without losing their fire.

And for anyone wondering how to create real change when the whole system seems designed to keep you isolated and overwhelmed.

Timeline Highlights

[00:06] Bernie invites listeners to Unreasonable Connection—networking for people who hate networking

[01:16] Helena introduces herself as a 50-year pioneer of worldwide localisation

[02:33] The hard truth about going local: "It's quite hard to stop using Amazon, even though you hate it"

[04:07] How governments signed away power to global corporations—and why we're all consumers now, not citizens

[05:47] The shift from collective action to individual guilt: "You are destroying the world"

[07:28] "We're victims of a system that's driving this"—why the last five years have been so polarised

[08:58] The blindness problem: "We support the system when we remain blind to it"

[10:17] Bernie's observation: more hope than ever despite the s**t storm

[12:10] The spiritual bypass trap: why "inner peace first" thinking keeps us stuck

[13:42] Human connection comes before nature connection—lessons from indigenous cultures

[15:17] How to be fast and slow at the same time—the art of inhabiting different realities

[17:18] Why local currencies often replicate the same problems—use what you've got instead

[19:10] The Devon mill story: how grassroots effort rebuilt a local food economy

[22:20] Bernie's Galicia bread revelation: why local food tastes different and doesn't make you feel ill

[24:07] The idealism trap: watching out for perfect democratic structures that paralyse action

[27:01] Tilley's reflection on feeling grounded—and Helena's rare combination of global view with grassroots experience

Thematic Breakdown

The Corporate Takeover Nobody Talks About

Helena doesn't waste time with gentle introductions. She goes straight to the heart of how governments handed power to global corporations through trade treaties in the mid-80s. This wasn't gradual—it was a deliberate shift that transformed citizens into consumers and collective action into individual guilt.

Why Everything Feels So Polarised Right Now

The last five years haven't felt more divided by accident.

Helena connects the dots between extractive capitalism and the algorithms designed to profit from hatred and division.

She's witnessed 50 years of activism, and this level of polarisation is new—and manufactured.

The Blindness That Keeps Us Trapped

The biggest problem isn't evil CEOs or corrupt politicians. It's blindness to how the system works.

Helena argues that from grassroots activists to BlackRock executives, we're all trapped in a system we support by not understanding it.

Why Local Food Economies Matter Most

Food is the only thing humans produce that everyone needs three times a day.

Helena shares the Devon mill story—how a community rebuilt local wheat-to-bread infrastructure through sweat, tears, and philanthropy.

This isn't romantic localism; it's practical economics that creates psychological healing as a side effect.

The Spiritual Bypass Problem

Helena calls out the "inner peace first" movement, which has dominated alternative thinking for decades.

Real change requires working on both inner and outer transformation simultaneously. The human connection comes before the nature connection—a lesson from indigenous cultures that most spiritual movements often overlook.

What Actually Works for Coworking Spaces

Forget blockchain and complex local currencies.

Use the national currency you have and start building relationships with local suppliers, local food initiatives, and community projects.

Helena highlights coworking spaces that reduce rent for community initiatives, and owners who end up giving space away for free because they love what's happening.

The Pragmatic Path Forward

Helena warns against perfectionist idealism that demands representation from every group before taking action.

Start with a few partners, watch one of their films, and begin the conversation about moving from individual consumer choices to collective citizen action.

Links & Resources

Helena's Work

* Local Futures Website

* Films – The Economics of Happiness & more

* Books – Ancient Futures & more

* Localisation Action Guide

Events & Community

* Unreasonable Connection

* John Alexander – Citizenship Book

Coworking Ecosystem

* AI for Coworking Quiz

* Coworking Values Podcast on LinkedIn

* European Coworking Day

* Workspace Design Show

* Join the LinkedIn Coworking Group

* Connect with Bernie

* Connect with Tilley

"It comes from being told no, being told to reduce yourself, and working for people who don't give a s**t about your future, your culture, or the environment, or your community. And it comes from that place of, F**k me, we have got to start doing something about this now."

Vibushan Thirukumar doesn't mince words.

The co-founder and CEO of Oru Space carries the weight of displacement, the memory of bunkers and burnt houses, and the fury of watching brilliant people conform to spaces that weren’t designed for them.

This isn’t a founder story about scaling and exits.

It’s a raw, essential conversation about what happens when someone who fled war as a toddler, grew up angry in Berrylands, and failed university at 21, decides to build places where no one has to shrink themselves to fit in.

Vibushan talks about what it means to create genuine belonging, not as a marketing slogan, but as a form of resistance.

About why coworking is becoming a property play for landlords and what it takes to hold the line.

About spending locally, designing for diversity, and taking a stand on Gaza while others stay silent.

We move from the Sri Lankan civil war to Sutton High Street.

From racist neighbours to 45,000 square feet of community. From anger to purpose.

From military metaphors to the language of care. From algorithmic distraction to human connection.

This episode is for anyone who’s been told to reduce themselves—and chose not to.

For anyone trying to build something real in their local area without losing their soul in the process.

And for anyone wondering what coworking could still be.

🕰️ Timeline Highlights

[00:06] Bernie introduces Unreasonable Connection – a networking event for people who hate networking

[01:10] Vibushan introduces himself as co-founder of Oru Space, with 60 staff and 700 members across workspace and programs.

[02:02] “I’d like to be known for not shying away from the discomfort and difficulties of being a first-generation person”

[04:43] The source of Oru’s "Wakanda energy" – being told no and deciding to act anyway

[06:00] "The coworking industry used to be purposeful. Now it’s becoming a property play."

[07:13] Coworking as local economy: know your neighbours, stop commuting for no reason

[09:41] Born in Trincomalee during the war, fleeing to the UK at two years old

[12:51] The council flat years – the happiest time, full of real community

[14:45] Suburban racism, school alienation, growing up angry

[16:46] The 21-year-old realisation: "My life is s**t. I’ve achieved nothing."

[23:45] “We don’t ask you to reduce yourself” – the design philosophy behind Oru

[26:17] Why language matters: from ‘acquisition’ to actual community

[27:07] Taking a stand on Gaza: "That could have been me"

[33:41] Technology as the real enemy: echo chambers, manipulation, distraction

[37:59] The solution is painfully simple: grow local, eat local, trade local

[38:26] Final reflections on hope, property, and building forward from belonging

🧱 Thematic Breakdown

The Tamil War Most People Don’t Know About

Vibushan was born during Sri Lanka’s civil war, under British-induced divisions that left generations scarred.

His family’s escape—hiding in bunkers while their home burned—began a lifelong journey of seeking safety and voice.

From Council Flat Joy to Suburban Exile

The Kingston council flat was a real community. Berrylands wasn’t.

As soon as his family stepped into a whiter, wealthier suburb, things got harder: racism, silence, cold neighbours, and school staff who saw less in him than was there.

What Language Does to Belonging

What happens when you train staff to think in terms like "acquisition" instead of “neighbour”? The words we use shape how we see people—and how we treat them. Especially in coworking.

When It’s Not Just Business

This isn’t theory. Oru raised money for Gaza, cut suppliers complicit in destruction, and built infrastructure-level support into its operations. It’s not easy. It’s necessary.

Belonging By Design

Some spaces are built to flatten you. Some let you be anonymous. Others—like Oru—let you arrive and not know who you’re supposed to be. That disorientation is a gift: it gives people permission to be themselves.

Real Neighbours, Real Community

Forget the startup showroom. When you spend £1 locally, it circles four times through your community. When you spend it with a chain, it’s gone. Belonging is economic, not just emotional.

🔗 Links & Resources

Oru Space WebsiteVibushan’s Oru Newsletter 🇵🇸Connect with Vibushan on LinkedInOru Space on InstagramAI for Coworking QuizUnreasonable Connection – Sign up on LumaJohn Alexander’s Citizenship BookCoworking Values Podcast on LinkedInEuropean Coworking DayWorkspace Design ShowLinkedIn Coworking GroupConnect with Bernie

🧠 One More Thing

Coworking brings communities together, helping people find and share their voices.

Each episode of the Coworking Values Podcast explores Accessibility, Community, Openness, Collaboration, and Sustainability — values that shape the spaces where we gather, work, and grow.

If this resonates with you, rate, follow, and share the podcast. Your support helps others discover how coworking enriches lives, builds careers, and strengthens communities.

Community is the key 🔑

Episode Summary

"People don’t stay for the decor. They stay because they get more done and feel less alone."

Most coworking spaces chase wow-factor tours. Big glass atriums. Branded mugs. Artfully placed ping-pong tables.

But the reason people stay?It’s not the hobbit holes or upside-down dining tables.

It’s because they feel less alone.And they get more done.

This conversation with Tom Ball, founder of DeskLodge, doesn’t offer a five-step growth strategy or Instagram-friendly advice.

It’s a story about building by instinct, not aesthetics.About designing for real life, not photo ops.

Tom started with a beat-up building, zero budget, and a roll of masking tape.He didn’t optimise for scale. He listened to the space. And over time, something sticky and human emerged — a place where people don’t just rent a desk, they invest in the atmosphere.

“Scaling is optional,” Tom says. “You don’t need 10 locations to feel proud. You need one that feels like home.”

There’s even a “crap on a shelf” room — not for the brand deck, but for the quiet moment someone makes a new friend at the coffee machine.

This episode is about choosing soul over scale.About what happens when you build a space that people miss when they’re not in it.

Whether you’re starting your first space or trying to reconnect with why you began, this one’s a compass reset.

Timeline Highlights

[00:06] Bernie introduces Unreasonable Connection—no panels, no pitches, just real conversation

[01:10] Tom shares what Desk Lodge is known for: quirky, creative, ultra-productive spaces

[03:06] Behind the whimsy: how “crap on a shelf” becomes community fuel

[04:24] Big atriums vs. crowded kitchens: what humans want from space

[06:44] Bernie asks why some space owners still chase the WeWork dream

[07:44] Tom’s answer: A thousand tiny things done well beats one big idea

[09:03] The two things people want from coworking: get more done, feel less lonely

[11:08] Silent zones, huddle spots, and breakout areas: designing for how humans actually work

[14:19] From budget constraint to intentional design: how Desk Lodge grew out of making do

[17:38] Why a quirky space builds trust faster than a polished one

[22:47] Self-selection: the secret to building an authentic community without over-engineering it

[25:06] Scaling is optional: how to choose depth over width (and why that's okay)

[27:27] The wisdom of choosing to go deep—and not sit on two toilets at once

Small Decisions, Big Vibe

Every corner of Desk Lodge tells a story. Not because it was branded that way, but because it evolved from genuine constraints, real people, and genuine attention.

From picnic benches in windowless rooms to themed zones that match how people work, this episode peels back the Instagram layer and shows how coworking can be built with heart and screwdrivers.

Creating Places That Smile Back

Tom doesn’t believe in one-size-fits-all coworking. Instead, he shares how building for personality—even if it costs you monetisable space—creates the kind of environment people don’t want to leave.

The Anti-WeWork Blueprint

Forget the polished showrooms and bland lobbies.

If you want people to invest their energy (not just their money), give them somewhere that feels like their own.

Tom’s success isn’t from scale—it’s from soul.

Links & Resources

* DeskLodge Website

* Video! DeskLodge in 23 Seconds

* Unreasonable Hospitality book website

* AI for Coworking Quiz

* Unreasonable Connection – Sign up on Luma

* Coworking Values Podcast on LinkedIn

* European Coworking Day 2026

* Visit the Workspace Design Show

* Join the 8k+ Members in the LinkedIn Coworking Group

* Connect with Bernie on LinkedIn

* Connect with Tom on LinkedIn

One more thing

Coworking brings communities together, helping people find and share their voices.Each episode of the Coworking Values Podcast explores Accessibility, Community, Openness, Collaboration, and Sustainability—values shaping the spaces where we gather, work, and grow.

If this resonates with you, rate, follow, and share the podcast. Your support amplifies our reach, helping others discover how coworking enriches lives, builds careers, and strengthens communities.

Community is the key 🔑

Episode Summary

"If we don’t have revenue, we don’t have a space."

Fiona Ross joins Bernie to discuss one of the most costly, challenging, and misunderstood decisions coworking operators encounter: when to abandon DIY systems and invest in software that genuinely supports your space.

Forget the sales demos and shiny integrations.

This episode is about the real-life process of choosing systems that work for your members, your team, and your values.

You’ll learn when spreadsheets stop being cute and start costing you money.

You’ll get a brutally honest look at integrations, platform migrations, and why some operators waste £10k just trying to fix problems they didn’t see coming.

Fiona has helped dozens of coworking spaces scale without losing their soul—or their sanity.

If you're opening a space, switching tools, or drowning in admin, this episode could save you months of stress.

Timeline Highlights

[00:05] Emily introduces Unreasonable Connection events and invites listeners

[00:29] Bernie introduces Fiona and kicks off the software vs spreadsheet debate

[01:47] The 5-year story of a Monday morning accountability ritual

[02:52] Fiona explains when spreadsheets stop being sustainable

[04:48] Why member experience and operator experience must shape your systems

[06:21] What to ask before you even look at software

[08:17] The role of values, support, and platform culture

[10:25] DIY to platform: What makes a smooth transition?

[12:36] Fiona's brutal honesty on integrations: "Only 40% actually work"

[14:47] Platform decisions: what hill are you willing to die on?

[17:17] Why mapping your customer and team journeys saves time later

[19:45] Fiona's 3 key questions every space should answer first

[21:26] The danger of hiring help too late and overpaying for panic

[22:40] Cost vs value: don't mistake cheap for right

[24:00] When to start evaluating platforms for a July opening

[27:11] Why migrations can take 6 weeks—and how to do them right

[30:02] Where to find and contact Fiona Ross

Detailed Episode Breakdown

Why Starting with Spreadsheets is Fine—Until It Isn't Fiona explains how spaces can start off messy, but why the administrative burden quickly becomes unsustainable. It's not about size—it's about complexity, capacity, and cash flow.

Software Doesn’t Fix Chaos. Before choosing a platform, it's essential to understand your offer, your members, your workflows, and your core values; otherwise, you’ll cause confusion.

The DIY-to-Platform Transition. The real pain isn’t the software itself—it’s the process of cleaning up your data, clarifying your needs, and rolling out change. Fiona shares what to prioritise to make it smoother.

Beware the Integration Trap. Shiny promises often disappoint.

Fiona warns that integrations rarely work as seamlessly as advertised, and understanding how they integrate matters more than whether they do.

What's the Hill You're Willing to Die On? Every platform has pros and cons. Fiona urges space operators to get clear on their non-negotiables: what supports your team and member experience without compromise?

The Cost of Cheap. You might save money upfront with a simpler system, but if it creates extra admin, errors, or friction, it could cost you members and momentum. Fiona makes the case for actual value over sticker price.

When to Start and How Long It Takes. If you're opening in four months, now is the time.

Fiona breaks down the realistic timelines and what you can (and should) be doing now to avoid a mad rush later.

Peer Support and Avoiding Costly Mistakes Sometimes, the best move is just sitting down with other space operators and comparing notes.

Don’t get dazzled by Brad from the booth with the squeezy ball.

Links & Resources

* Fiona’s website - Pink Scottie

* AI for Coworking Quiz

* Unreasonable Connection – Sign up on Luma

* Coworking Values Podcast on LinkedIn

* European Coworking Day 2026

* Visit the Workspace Design Show

* Join the 8k+ Members in the LinkedIn Coworking Group

* Connect with Bernie on LinkedIn

* Connect with Fiona on LinkedIn

One more thing

Coworking brings communities together, helping people find and share their voices.Each episode of the Coworking Values Podcast explores Accessibility, Community, Openness, Collaboration, and Sustainability—values shaping the spaces where we gather, work, and grow.

If this resonates with you, rate, follow, and share the podcast. Your support amplifies our reach, helping others discover how coworking enriches lives, builds careers, and strengthens communities.

Community is the key 🔑

Episode Summary

"I'm a mother now. I'm no longer a hostess."

In this episode, Emily Breder talks with Olivia Jones and Tyshon Boone, co-founders of Prism Spaces in Chicago, about how two performing artists turned community managers are rewriting the coworking playbook.

It starts with art: ballet and theatre degrees, open mics, and local gallery walls. But it doesn't stop there.

Olivia and Tyshon bring a radical hospitality to their space—filtered water, lavender air, feminine care supplies, and no surprise charges for coffee.

They run Prism like it's their baby, and their members feel it.

We talk pricing pressures, staying accessible, and what happens when your coworking community drinks more tea than your Amazon cart can handle.

Plus: the tensions of being best friends and business partners, and how sometimes community shows up as a serenade of Backstreet Boys covers.

This one's for anyone who's ever wondered if coworking could be built with soul.

Timeline Highlights

[00:04] Emily invites listeners to the next Unreasonable Connection

[00:59] Tyshon and Olivia share their arts backgrounds and coworking origin story

[03:17] Olivia on pivoting from ballet to real estate to community building

[06:02] How Prism supports local artists—with zero gatekeeping

[07:44] Raffle prizes, theatre tickets, and the unexpected artsy side of members

[08:57] A whole band forms during open mic night

[10:13] Why charging for coffee isn’t the Prism way

[12:42] Snacks, lavender, poodles, and the art of creating a welcoming space

[14:19] The challenge of staying focused when your cofounder is your best friend

[17:26] Why Olivia sees herself more as a mother than a manager

[20:15] Cabo on the patio—how they use space design to shape member moods

[21:55] The tension between financial sustainability and radical accessibility

[25:06] Tyshon on member input, toilet flushes, and investing in the experience

[26:45] How they divide work as a duo with different day jobs

[29:24] The Chicago coworking boom—and how Prism stays different

[32:09] How to find Prism online and get a free first day

Detailed Episode Breakdown

Meet the Artists-Turned-Owners

Tyshon and Olivia met at the University of the Arts—he a theatre major, she a ballet dancer. Years later, they’ve taken their creative DNA and poured it into coworking.

The Art of Building Community

From open call gallery walls to raffle tickets for local plays, Prism isn’t just art-friendly—it’s art-first. Even their members bring surprise creativity to the table (or stage).

Space as Care Work

Olivia doesn’t see herself as a manager. She’s a mother to a living, breathing space. That care is evident in feminine supplies, quiet fountains, and complimentary snacks.

Best Friends & Business Decisions

Running a space with your bestie sounds dreamy—until your 1 PM meeting turns into cocktails and binge-watching. Tyshon and Olivia share how they navigate love and logistics.

Pricing with Integrity

What do you do when your members say, “You should charge more,” but you want to keep the doors open for everyone? Olivia and Tyshon talk real numbers, trust, and hard choices.

Why Prism Doesn’t Feel Like a Business

Between poodle greeters and morning lavender scents, members don’t feel like customers, and Olivia and Tyshon don’t want them to. But that doesn’t make running the place any easier.

Links & Resources

Referenced by Guests:

* Prism Instagram – https://instagram.com/prism.spaces

* Prism Website – https://prismpartners.space

* Trap Door Theatre Chicago

* RSVP for Unreasonable Connection

* AI Readiness Quiz for Coworking

* Coworking Values Podcast on LinkedIn

* Visit the Workspace Design Show

* Join the 8k+ LinkedIn Coworking Group

* Emily on LinkedIn

* Olivia on LinkedIn

One more thing

Coworking brings communities together, helping people find and share their voices.

Each episode of the Coworking Values Podcast explores Accessibility, Community, Openness, Collaboration, and Sustainability—values that shape the spaces where we gather, work, and grow.

Rate, follow, and share the podcast if this resonates with you.

Your support amplifies our reach, helping others discover how coworking enriches lives, builds careers, and strengthens communities.

Community is the key 🔑