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Crazy Together
By Marcus & Esme O’KayviusSociety & CultureScienceSocial SciencesHealth & FitnessMental HealthRelationships
Crazy Together episodes
- 37. Dogs!
On this very special episode, Marcus and Esme tackle their most controversial topic to date – dogs! Why are dogs so controversial? Well, if a person says anything remotely negative about dogs, then you can darn well bet the dog lovers will come for that person. So, Marcus and Esme demonstrate great bravery as they attempt to answer the following questions:
- Why do people love dogs so much?
- What are the physical and psychological health benefits of dog ownership?
- What are the POTENTIAL negative impacts of dog ownership?
PLUS: Marcus and Esme provide a brief follow-up of last week’s episode about the expansion of involuntary commitment in America.
Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com
Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact
Shareable resources for this episode include:
- Dr. Maria Ingalla, DNP PMHNPBC (@dr.mariaingalla)
- https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.mariaingalla/video/7531251665895197966?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7532142683666990605
- https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.mariaingalla/video/7531442989827132685?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7532142683666990605
Sources for this episode include:
- Osborn, Jen Flatt. “Domestication of Dogs: From Wolves to Our Canine Companions.” World Animal Foundation, 11 Aug. 2023, worldanimalfoundation.org/dogs/domestication-of-dogs
- Coughlan, Sean. “Dogs' Eyes Evolve to Appeal to Humans.” BBC News, 17 June 2019, www.bbc.com/news/education-48665618.
- Miller, Louise B. “The Psychological and Physical Benefits of Having a Pet.” Psychology Today, 26 Oct. 2020, www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mind-body-connection/202010/the-psychological-and-physical-benefits-having-pet.
- Manis, Emily. “New Study Sheds Light on the Positive and Negative Impacts of Dog Ownership on Psychological Wellbeing.” PsyPost, 15 Sept. 2022, www.psypost.org/new-study-sheds-light-on-the-positive-and-negative-impacts-of-dog-ownership-on-psychological-wellbeing.
Our theme music:
Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp
1 hr 24 min - 36. Expansion of Involuntary Commitment
On Thursday, July 24 President Trump signed the ENDING CRIME AND DISORDER ON AMERICA’S STREETS executive order to make it easier for local jurisdictions to remove homeless people from the street. However, the order goes beyond targeting homeless people, it could potentially be used to target anyone who has ever received treatment for a mental health issue or drug addiction.
As scary as this order is, Marcus and Esme are asking their listeners to share this episode (or related resources – see below) with anyone who has ever struggled with mental health or addiction issues – or knows someone who has. Because there are steps we can take if we start acting right now.
Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com
Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact
Shareable resources for this episode include:
- Dr. Maria Ingalla, DNP PMHNPBC (@dr.mariaingalla)
- https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.mariaingalla/video/7531251665895197966?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7532142683666990605
- https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.mariaingalla/video/7531442989827132685?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7532142683666990605
Additional sources for this episode include:
- Shields, Morgan C et al. “Private Equity Among US Psychiatric Hospitals.” JAMA psychiatry vol. 82,7 (2025): 701-708. doi:10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2025.0689
- “Involuntary Commitment: What It Is, How It Works & Criteria.” Cleveland Clinic, 7 Feb. 2025, my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/involuntary-commitment
- “Ending Crime and Disorder on America’s Streets.” The White House, 24 July 2025, www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/07/ending-crime-and-disorder-on-americas-streets
- Walker, Josephine. “What to Know About Civil Commitment, Trump’s New Policy for Homelessness.” Axios, 25 July 2025, www.axios.com/2025/07/25/civil-commitment-trumps-homelessness-policy
- Weybright, Scott. “Privatized Prisons Lead to More Inmates, Longer Sentences, Study Finds.” WSU Insider, Washington State University, 15 Sept. 2020, news.wsu.edu/press-release/2020/09/15/privatized-prisons-lead-inmates-longer-sentences-study-finds
- Katovich, Scout. “ACLU Condemns Trump Executive Order Targeting Disabled and Unhoused People.” American Civil Liberties Union, 24 July 2025, www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-condemns-trump-executive-order-targeting-disabled-and-unhoused-people
Our theme music:
- Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp
33 min - 35. Creating Sensory-Friendly Interior Spaces
Esme makes her glorious return to the recording studio to discuss how our environments and internal spaces (e.g., home, work, school, etc.) can impact neurodivergent people with sensory sensitivities. She and Marcus then share a few tips for making your home more comfortable for the neurodiverse in your lives, as well as considerations for advocating for accommodations in your workplace. ALSO: Marcus calls out the Guggenheim. Why? You’ll have to listen to find out.
Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com
Support our show:
- Buy us a coffee at ko-fi.com/crazytogetherpod.
Sources for this episode include:
- Xirou, Maria. “Embracing Neurodiversity: Designing Inclusive Spaces.” British Institute of Interior Design, 28 Mar. 2024, https://biid.org.uk/resources/embracing-neurodiversity-designing-inclusive-spaces.
- “An Introduction to Neuroaesthetics in Wellness Interior Design.” Biofilico, 2025, https://biofilico.com/news/neuro-aesthetics-in-wellness-interior-design-healthy-buildings.
- Fazzare, Elizabeth. “Does Neuroaesthetics Have Design Down to a Science?” Architectural Digest, 29 Nov. 2022, https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/neuroaesthetics-can-designs-positive-effects-be-scientifically-proven.
- Arnwine, Bonnie. “Home Sensory Room Ideas: Create a Calming and Stimulating Space for All Ages.” National Autism Resources, 17 Mar. 2025, https://nationalautismresources.com/blog/home-sensory-room-ideas-create-a-calming-and-stimulating-space-for-all-ages.
- “Creating a Sensory-Friendly Environment.” Guggenheim Museums and Foundation, 2025, https://www.guggenheim.org/accessibility/guggenheim-for-all/guggenheim-for-all-toolkit/creating-a-sensory-friendly-environment.
Our theme music:
- Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp
1 hr 21 min - 34. Is Capitalism Bad for Our Mental Health?
PROVOCTIVE TITLE WARNING! Content might be more nuanced than the title suggests. Listener discretion is encouraged.
Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com
Support our show:
- Buy us a coffee at ko-fi.com/crazytogetherpod.
Sources for this episode include:
- Zeira, Anna. "Mental Health Challenges Related to Neoliberal Capitalism in the United States." Community Mental Health Journal, vol. 58, no. 2, May 2021, pp. 205–212. PubMed Central, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8145185/.
Our theme music:
- Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp
27 min - 33. Summer, Summer, Summertime
Marcus and Esme are on vacation this week, but they didn't want to leave you hanging. So they have compiled some of their favorite clips into one fun-filled episode. They will be back with a new episode next week. Enjoy!
Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com
Our theme music:
- Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp
50 min - 32. Business Horoscopes: Part 2
Marcus and Esme continue their discussion about personality type assessments and explore the ways in which even more reliable tools like the Big Five or Five Factor assessment are being misused by employers and the developers of certain talent management platforms. They also close the book on the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI), and share some pretty shocking details about Isabel Briggs Myers’ personal biases.
Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com
Support our show:
- Buy us a coffee at ko-fi.com/crazytogetherpod.
Sources for this episode include:
- Zárate-Torres, Rodrigo, and Juan C. Correa. "How Good Is the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator for Predicting Leadership-Related Behaviors?" Frontiers in Psychology, vol. 14, 1 Mar. 2023, https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2023.940961.
- Stromberg, Joseph, and Estelle Caswell. "Why the Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Totally Meaningless." Vox, 8 Oct. 2015, https://www.vox.com/2014/7/15/5881947/myers-briggs-personality-test-meaningless.
- Spichak, Simon. “The Racist Origin of the Popular Myers-Briggs® Test.” Medium, 2 May 2021, https://medium.com/@simonspichak/the-racist-origin-of-the-popular-myers-briggs-test-49c735da660a.
- Roccas, Sonia, et al. “The Big Five Personality Factors and Personal Values.” Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, vol. 28, no. 6, 2002, pp. 789–801, https://doi.org/10.1177/0146167202289008.
- Kang, Weixi, et al. "Big Five Personality Traits in the Workplace: Investigating Personality Differences between Employees, Supervisors, Managers, and Entrepreneurs." Frontiers in Psychology, vol. 14, 28 Mar. 2023, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10089283/.
- Hardy, Benjamin. “Personality Isn't Permanent—Or Is It? The Answer Is No.” Psychology Today, 12 June 2020, https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/quantum-leaps/202006/personality-isnt-permanent-or-is-it-the-answer-is-no.
- Prins, Seth J., et al. "The Serpent of Their Agonies: Exploitation As Structural Determinant of Mental Illness." Epidemiology, vol. 32, no. 2, Mar. 2021, pp. 303–09. PubMed Central, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7872213/.
Our theme music:
- Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp
1 hr 19 min - 31. Business Horoscopes: Part 1
Marcus and Esme examine the super squishy pseudoscience behind personality type assessments such as the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI).
Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com
Support our show:
- Buy us a coffee at ko-fi.com/crazytogetherpod.
Sources for this episode include:
- “The History of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator.” The Myers-Briggs Company, https://eu.themyersbriggs.com/en/tools/MBTI/Myers-Briggs-history.
- Zárate-Torres, Rodrigo, and Juan C. Correa. “How Good Is the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator for Predicting Leadership-Related Behaviors?” Frontiers in Psychology, vol. 14, 2 Mar. 2023, article 940961, https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2023.940961.
- Stromberg, Joseph, and Estelle Caswell. “Why the Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Totally Meaningless.” Vox, 8 Oct. 2015, https://www.vox.com/2014/7/15/5881947/myers-briggs-personality-test-meaningless.
- Spichak, Simon. “The Racist Origin of the Popular Myers-Briggs® Test.” Medium, 2 May 2021, https://medium.com/@simonspichak/the-racist-origin-of-the-popular-myers-briggs-test-49c735da660a.
- “Free Personality Test, Type Descriptions, Relationship and Career Advice.” 16Personalities, NERIS Analytics Limited, https://www.16personalities.com/.
- “How To Recognize and Lessen the Barnum Effect.” Cleveland Clinic Health Essentials, 2 Aug. 2024, https://health.clevelandclinic.org/barnum-effect..
Our theme music:
Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp
1 hr 10 min - 30. Is There a Link Between Creativity and Mental Illness or Neurodivergence?
Marcus and Esme pay tribute to the lives and works of Sly Stone and Brian Wilson–two of the most wildly creative, innovative, and influential singer/songwriters the world has ever known. While sharing their illuminating, entertaining, and occasionally heartbreaking stories, Marcus and Esme also confront the classic trope of the “Tortured Artist” to determine if there is a connection between creativity and mental illness, mood disorders, and/or neurodivergence.
Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com
Support our show:
- Buy us a coffee at ko-fi.com/crazytogetherpod.
Sources for this episode include:
- Sheffield, Rob. “Sly Stone Believed Everybody Is a Star: The Massive Legacy of an Avant-Funk Revolutionary.” Rolling Stone, 10 June 2025, https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/sly-stone-sly-and-the-family-stone-tribute-1235361170.
- Edwards, Gavin, and Daniel Kreps. “Brian Wilson, Beach Boys Co-Founder and Architect of Pop, Dead at 82.” Rolling Stone, 11 June 2025, https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/brian-wilson-beach-boys-dead-1234810073
- Carlin, Peter Ames. Catch a Wave: The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of the Beach Boys' Brian Wilson. Rodale, 2006.
- Sly Lives! (aka The Burden of Black Genius). Directed by Questlove, Onyx Collective and MRC Non-Fiction, 2025.
- Myers, Owen. “The Burden of Black Genius: Documentary Examines Career of Sly Stone.” The Guardian, 13 Feb. 2025, https://www.theguardian.com/film/2025/feb/13/black-genius-documentary
Our theme music:
Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp
1 hr 28 min - 29. It Turns Out Everyone is All Up in Their Feelings
And when Marcus and Esme say “everyone,” they mean everyone. It turns out that human beings might not be the rational creatures we like to think we are. According to neuroscientist Antonio Damasio, it seems our decision-making abilities are guided and greatly influenced by our emotions.
In this episode, Marcus and Esme discuss Damasio’s theories and how they might explain some of the philosophical and political differences in our county, and why so many of us are susceptible to misinformation and irrational decision-making. They also discuss how this research opens the door to potentially reaching out to people whose beliefs seem to be so completely different from our own.
Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com
Support our show:
- Buy us a coffee at ko-fi.com/crazytogetherpod.
Sources for this episode include:
- Damasio, Antonio. Descartes' Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain. 27 Sept. 2005. Internet Archive, https://archive.org/details/antonio-damasio-descartes-error.
- Markwica, Robin. A Theory of Emotional Choice for International Relations. The Max Weber Programme Blog, 15 Mar. 2018, blogs.eui.eu/maxweberprogramme/emotional-choice-international-relations.
Our theme music:
Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp
1 hr 14 min - 28. To Sleep Perchance to Pay Attention in School the Next Day
Like a lot of people with ADHD, Marcus and Esme have trouble falling asleep and sometimes even staying asleep. They share some of the challenges they’ve experienced, as well as some of the early challenges they’ve observed with their daughter. They also discuss some of the strategies and resources for falling asleep the O’Kayviuses have tried over the years and how they’re helping their daughter develop good sleep hygiene (even though Marcus hates that term). PLUS: we learn that Esme sometimes talks in her sleep. Not just the occasional mumble or murmur, mind you, but fully engaged conversations with her eyes wide-open. Her somniloquies are not always that convincing, though. Unbound from the logic of the waking world, she’ll sometimes introduce fantastical elements to her conversations, like the time she accused Marcus of letting a noteworthy English Werewolf escape on his watch. It was a baseless accusation, of course, but Marcus still feels guilty about it to this day.
Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com
Support our show:
- Buy us a coffee at ko-fi.com/crazytogetherpod.
Sources for this episode include:
- Pacheco, Danielle. "ADHD and Sleep Problems: How Are They Related?" Sleep Foundation, 30 Apr. 2024, https://www.sleepfoundation.org/mental-health/adhd-and-sleep.
- ADDitude Editors. "Night Owls with ADHD: How Staying up Late Boosts Productivity." ADDitude Magazine, 9 May 2025, https://www.additudemag.com/night-owls-adhd-adults-staying-up-late.
- French, Blandine, et al. "The Impact of Sleep Difficulties in Children with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder on the Family: A Thematic Analysis." Journal of Clinical Sleep Medicine, vol. 19, no. 10, 1 Oct. 2023, pp. 1735-1741, https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.10662.
- Cleveland Clinic. "Diaphragmatic Breathing." Cleveland Clinic, 30 Mar. 2022, https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/9445-diaphragmatic-breathing.
- Hvolby, Allan. "Associations of Sleep Disturbance with ADHD: Implications for Treatment." Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, vol. 7, no. 1, 17 Aug. 2014, pp. 1-18, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4340974/.
Our theme music:
- Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp
1 hr 22 min
About Crazy Together
From the publisher's feed
If you’re sick and tired of listening to the negative talk track playing in your head, then why not listen to us instead? We are Marcus and Esme O’Kayvius (not our real names), a married, neurodivergent couple with a lot of experience managing our own mental health issues while raising a daughter and navigating the dystopic hellscape that is corporate America. Join us each week as we discuss trending mental health issues and explore how they impact our health and wellness. We’ll also examine the myths and misconceptions associated with mental health and what we can do about them.
Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com