When You Don't Fit at Church

Ever felt like you turned up to church at the wrong time, in the wrong place, with nothing to bring? This one's for you.

About this episode

Mike Harris joins Crowd Church to walk through one of the strangest, most tender moments in the Gospels — Jesus reaching out and touching a man with leprosy. It's a story about a guy who broke every rule about how to come to God and somehow got the warmest welcome of his life. Mike pulls in his own outsider stories — the football wall, the cycling club, a moment in a garden he's not proud of — and asks the question lots of people are quietly asking. Does Jesus actually want me here?

Timestamps

• 00:00 Welcome and Series Recap
• 03:34 Mike's Talk — Have You Felt Left Out
• 05:26 The Cruel Football Captain
• 07:16 Joining the Cycling Club
• 08:26 The Leper at the Wrong Time
• 10:56 I Am Willing — The Real Question
• 12:26 What Leviticus Actually Required
• 15:56 Wrong Time, Wrong Place, Nothing
• 16:56 The Infectious Holiness of Jesus
• 18:56 Gentle and Lowly — Dane Ortlund
• 21:26 You Are Hidden in Christ
• 22:33 Conversation Street — Lepers Around Us
• 32:26 The Distance Built Into Church
• 39:56 What Can We Do for the Left Out
• 45:56 He Gives Us What We Need
• 49:56 What's the Story + Alpha Plug
• 51:56 Mike's Final Word — Hidden in Christ

Key references

• Mark 1:40-45 (Mike teaches the parallel in Matthew 8:1-4)
• Leviticus 13-14 — the social rules around skin disease in the ancient world
• Matthew 11:29 — the only verse where Jesus describes his own heart
• Romans 8 — no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus
• Hebrews 4:16 (Ade) — approaching God's throne with confidence
• Dane Ortlund's book Gentle and Lowly — Mike refers to it as How Does God Change Us, which is a related companion book by the same author

Quotes from the talk"It's one challenge to believe in God's power. It's another challenge to believe he would use that power in your life." — Mike Harris"Jesus's gut reaction was to move toward the leper. That was his reaction, not his thought-through, considered one. It's just what his heart is." — Mike Harris"God's mercy and grace was the grit to get through. It isn't always deliverance — but very often it's in life's hardships where God's greatest grace works happen." — Ade BirkbyLinks

• crowd.church — Join us live Sundays at 7pm UK
• Gentle and Lowly by Dane Ortlund — the book Mike quotes from
• New Alpha Course starting Tuesday 5th May (online) — register via crowd.church

Crowd Church — a community for those who might not see the point of church.

Show Notes — When You're Tired of Hiding

Ever come to the end of a long week of pretending and wondered if there's a version of faith that doesn't need you to polish yourself up first? In part two of the Jesus the Revolutionary series, Dave Connolly opens up John 4 and the story of the woman at the well — and what happens when Jesus goes out of his way to meet someone who's spent years hiding.

What this talk is about

Dave unpacks the story of a woman who came to draw water at noon, in the hottest part of the day, to avoid the very people she was ashamed to face. The talk explores what it means to be fully known and fully welcomed at the same time — and why shame pushes us into isolation while grace pulls us back into community.

Alongside the Talk, Will Patterson and Mike Harris host Conversation Street, picking up the threads with community questions, honest admissions about isolation, and some practical ways to stop hiding when life gets heavy.

Journey with us through

• [00:00] Welcome, introductions, and a red-shirt coincidence on a Merseyside derby weekend
• [05:02] Dave opens the talk — why he struggles with the word "revolutionary"
• [08:30] The divine appointment — Jesus waiting at the well for the one who's hiding
• [13:00] Five husbands and the number of incompletion — what real fulfilment looks like
• [17:45] Living water, dry places, and why "try harder" runs out
• [21:00] The water jar left behind — old identity gets outgrown
• [24:00] The challenge for Christians who are still hiding unsurrendered areas
• [26:30] "Come as you are" — an invitation for anyone exploring faith
• [27:39] Conversation Street begins — Will, Mike, and Dave go deeper
• [38:00] Nicodemus, Zacchaeus, and the shame that cuts both ways
• [42:00] Dave's testimony — aged 19, his friend Lee's dad Kev, and a visible transformation
• [48:00] Will on depression and the WhatsApp group of five
• [51:30] Alicia's comment — from shame-centred to Jesus-centred
• [53:30] "Come as you are" — the closing invitation

Key moments from the talk[05:02] The woman who came at noon

Dave sets the scene. Everyone else drew water in the morning — that was when the community gathered and the chatter happened. This woman came at the hottest part of the day, alone, on purpose. She wasn't there because it was safer or more convenient. She was there because of her shame.

"She's there because of her shame. So many people spend their life avoiding people, avoiding situations. They live a life around avoidance."

What the talk explores:

• Why shame drives us into isolation and keeps others at arm's length
• The difference between being alone and being hidden
• How Jesus deliberately crosses into the territory we try to avoid

[11:00] A conversation that should have ended five husbands ago

Dave walks through the exchange in verse 18 — Jesus naming the five husbands and the man she's with now. Six relationships. Dave notes the biblical numerology: six is the number of incompletion. The woman is talking to Jesus, the bridegroom, who is the only one who brings real fulfilment.

"Jesus didn't speak shame over her. He didn't lecture her. He didn't reject her. He didn't judge her. Instead, he reveals himself."

What the talk explores:

• Why Jesus's words of revelation never come loaded with condemnation
• The things we look to for fulfilment — approval, relationships, success — and why they run dry
• 1 Samuel 16 and the reminder that God looks at the heart

[21:00] She leaves the water jar behind

In verse 28, the woman leaves her water jar at the well. She came for water and forgot all about it. Dave reads this as a picture of what happens when we encounter Jesus — the old identity and the old fulfilment-sources stay behind because we've found something that actually lasts.

"When we encounter Jesus, our old identity and the things that we sought for fulfilment, we don't need to take them with us because we will find exclusively fulfilment in Jesus."[24:00] The challenge — you can follow Jesus and still be hiding

Dave lands a challenge for people who've been in church for years. It's possible to serve, sing, sway, know all the songs, and still keep areas of your life untouched and unsurrendered. And if they're unsurrendered, the life of God can't come in and redeem them.

"It's possible to follow God. It's possible to walk with Jesus. And still be hiding."[26:30] If you're exploring faith — come as you are

For anyone who is watching and feeling too far gone, Dave is direct. Don't try and polish yourself up to come before Jesus. Romans 5:8 — while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. That's the starting point, not the finish line.

"He died with His arms outstretched. His arms are still outstretched to me and you."Conversation Street highlights

After the talk, Will, Mike, and Dave sit down for Conversation Street — the bit where, in Crowd's words, the talk ends and the real conversation begins. A few moments stood out.

[30:00] No exposure, just an offer

Will captures the posture of Jesus in one phrase. Jesus isn't interested in exposing the woman. He's offering her something. That's the same relationship Jesus offers us — he knows those things, and the conversation starts with an invitation, not an interrogation.

Will: "No exposure, just an offer. That he wasn't interested in exposing. And that's exactly the same with us."[42:00] Dave's testimony — Lee Davis and Kev

Dave shares his own story of coming to faith at 19 alongside his friend Lee Davis, and watching Lee's dad Kev get saved on the same night. The community noticed. The transformation was visible — how Kev spoke, how he treated people, the fruit of repentance. Dave adds, with characteristic honesty, that he himself was "a bit of a flake" and took a slower route.

[48:00] Will's WhatsApp-five for dark days

Will opens up about his experience with depression and the way isolation becomes the default. The discipline he's built is a small WhatsApp group of five guys. On a dark day he doesn't want to talk to anyone — but he can type one word: struggling. The group does the rest. Prayer, presence, connection, without the pressure of a phone call.

Will: "It's a real discipline when I'm having a dark day. I don't want anyone to phone me up, I don't want to talk through anything, but I just need to put a message on going, struggling, because I know these guys are for me."[51:30] Alicia on the shift from shame-centred to Jesus-centred

Alicia's comment in the chat lands the whole talk in a single sentence. The Lord moves the woman from the shame she's centred in herself to the larger view that centres him — and her new identity in him.

Alicia: "What's so beautiful about this story and this talk is that the Lord moves the woman from the shame she's centered in herself to the larger view that centers him."[53:30] Mike — he who knows you best loves you most

Mike closes with a line he's heard before and pulls it back out: he who knows you best loves you most. None of us are good enough. All of us are seen. All of us are known. All of us are loved.

Mike: "He who knows you best loves you most. We are all completely seen. We are completely known, and we are completely loved."Scripture referenced

• John 4 verses 1-42 — the woman at the well
• 1 Samuel 16 — the Lord looks on the heart
• Romans 5:8 — "while we were still sinners, Christ died for us"

Join the conversation at crowd.church

For more info, please visit https://crowd.church/talks/when-youre-tired-of-hiding

Ever had the nagging suspicion that the Jesus you were handed as a kid is too small for the world you actually live in? We kick off our new series Jesus the Revolutionary with an honest look at the Jesus most of us were never warned about.

In this first conversation, Matt opens Luke chapter 4 and walks us through the moment Jesus stood up in His hometown synagogue, announced freedom for everyone (including His enemies), and nearly got thrown off a cliff for it. Gentle, yes. Kind, yes. But also fiercely loving, deeply disruptive, and far bigger than the pastel version most of us were handed. Anna Kettle and Sharon Edmundson then join the Conversation Street chat, where the community unpacks the versions of Jesus we tend to invent, the uncomfortable moments when God gets in our face, and why a small Jesus can never transform us.

Journey with us through:

1. [00:00] Welcome and Series Launch
2. [01:44] Matt's Talk — The Jesus You Know?
3. [04:00] Gentle Jesus and the Cardboard Problem
4. [07:55] At the Synagogue in Nazareth
5. [13:15] Why the Crowd Turned on Him
6. [16:30] Fiercely Loving, Not Meek and Mild
7. [19:30] A Regret and a Challenge
8. [22:09] Conversation Street — Who Is Jesus?
9. [55:45] Final Thoughts and Invitation

[04:00] The Problem With Cardboard Jesus

Most people have quietly rejected a version of Jesus, and we don't blame them. The pastel-coloured, lamb-hugging, never-says-anything-difficult Jesus is simply too small for real life. A cosmic therapist who pats us on the head and says there, there isn't the Jesus we meet in the Gospels.

"A Jesus who never disrupts you is a Jesus who can never transform you."

The same thing happened to Martin Luther King. We kept the I Have a Dream speech and quietly edited out the calls for radical wealth redistribution. We put him on a postage stamp and used his sanitised words to resist the very changes he was demanding. We've done exactly the same thing with Jesus — kept the comforting bits and deleted the rest.

The cost is that cardboard Jesus can't actually do anything. He can't challenge us, disagree with our culture, or say anything that makes us uncomfortable. He just agrees with everything we already believe, which is remarkably convenient and completely useless.

[07:55] The Day Jesus Announced Himself and Nearly Got Killed

Luke 4 gives us a front-row seat to Jesus kicking off His ministry in Nazareth. These are the people who watched Him grow up. They knew His mum. They'd bought furniture from His dad. Some of them probably taught Him to read in the very room they were sitting in.

He stands up, reads Isaiah's prophecy about freedom for the poor, the captives, the blind, the oppressed. Then He rolls the scroll up, sits down, and says today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing. Not one day. Today. In this room. Through Him.

The word freedom in the original language carries the weight of the ancient Jubilee tradition — every fifty years all debts cancelled, all slaves freed, all land returned. Imagine someone walking into Parliament and announcing that every mortgage, every student loan, every credit card, all of it, wiped. That's the scale of disruption Jesus is announcing, except He means everything, not just money.

What we explore:

1. Why Jesus deliberately stopped reading before the passage about God's vengeance
2. The two stories He told about God sending help to outsiders
3. Why His neighbours went from speaking well of Him to trying to throw Him off a cliff in thirty minutes
4. The astonishing line where Jesus simply walked through the mob

Key takeaway — a Jesus who is for everyone is deeply threatening to people who thought He was only for theirs.

[16:30] Fiercely Loving, Not Meek and Mild

The real Jesus isn't meek and mild. He's also not angry Jesus, harsh and wild. He's fiercely loving. Fierce against everything that holds us captive, relentlessly tender toward us. The same Jesus who provoked a riot in Nazareth is the one who wept at a friend's grave and welcomed children onto His lap. He's both.

"Fierce against everything that holds us captive, relentlessly tender toward us."

If we've experienced a version of Christianity that felt aggressive or controlling, this isn't what we're talking about. The fierceness of Jesus is always aimed at what's hurting us, never at us.

And the freedom He announced isn't abstract. It's specific. Free from the guilt we carry. Free from the story that we're not enough. Economic, social, spiritual — all of it. We've tended to keep only the spiritual bit because it's vague and doesn't demand much of us. That's exactly the sanitisation He warned about. He delivered that freedom not through violence but through sacrifice. Not a sword, but a cross.

[19:30] A Regret and a Challenge

Matt closes his talk with an honest confession. A lad at school he ripped into for being a Christian, because he thought Jesus was a killjoy and following Him meant becoming boring. A year or so later, praying in a church, offering God everything except his fun. Then slowly realising something uncomfortable. He was the one missing out on abundant life. Not the kid at school. Him.

The challenge for the week is simple. Read Luke 4. Slowly. Twice, if we can. Then ask ourselves one honest question — does this Jesus match the one I've been carrying around?

[28:55] When God Gets in Your Face

If Jesus is fiercely loving, then part of that fierce love looks like confrontation. Not harshness. Not condemnation. Just the stubborn refusal to leave us where we are. Conversation Street surfaced two honest stories of God doing exactly that.

Sharon shared about coming up to Liverpool years ago for a discipleship year with her mind and her life in a mess. A leader told her, kindly but firmly, that she needed to repent of some things and forgive some people. Every part of her wanted to push back — it's their fault I'm like this — but she knew it was true. The uncomfortable thing God was doing through another person was actually the loving thing He was doing for her.

"God's challenge isn't the opposite of His love. It's the evidence of it."

Matt shared a similar moment. A season of frustration with church, a mounting internal rant, and a prayer that started God, I am really not happy, met with a quiet reply he couldn't duck. Find me chapter and verse in the Bible where church is about you. The loving Father pushes us toward wholeness, and sometimes that means into a corner first.

[22:09] The Jesuses We Invent

Conversation Street surfaced a useful list of the Jesuses we tend to manufacture when the real one feels too costly.

1. The therapeutic life-coach Jesus — all the nice sayings, none of the submission
2. The political Jesus — happily baptised into whichever party we already vote for
3. The nice Jesus — keep the comforting teachings, lose the hard ones
4. The convenient saviour — great at forgiving sins, less welcome as king
5. The prophet-but-not-God Jesus — a good man, nothing more

Alicia shared that she learned to see Jesus as a revolutionary from her dad and a comforter from her mum. Our picture of Jesus is often as much about us as it is about Him. Zoe added something a lot of us feel. "I've only just started to learn about Jesus recently, and I've been surprised about how fierce He can be. I thought He was just quiet and calm." That's a perception map a lot of us have been drawing on.

Key takeaway — whichever version of Jesus has crept into our thinking, we tend to lean into the parts of His character that match our own wiring and dismiss the rest.

[55:45] What to Do With This

If Jesus is bigger, fiercer, and more loving than the version we've been carrying, here are some honest next steps.

1. Read Luke 4 this week. Just that one chapter. Slowly. Twice, if we can. Then ask one simple question — does this Jesus match the one we've been carrying around?
2. Name our version of Jesus. Which of the invented Jesuses feels closest to the one in our head? Naming it makes it easier to hand back.
3. Let Him be both. Stop choosing between fierce and gentle. Welcome the Jesus who wept at Lazarus' grave and walked through a lynch mob.
4. Notice where He's already challenging us. Often God's confrontation comes through another person, a repeating thought, or a verse that won't leave us alone. Don't argue it away. Sit with it.
5. Pray the dangerous prayer. Not my will but Yours be done. Jesus Himself struggled with this one in Gethsemane. It's hard. It's also where freedom lives.

Key takeaway — who wants a small God anyway? The Jesus who actually showed up is far more dangerous to our comfort, and far more devoted to our freedom, than we ever imagined.

About Crowd Church

Crowd Church is a digital-first church community based in Liverpool, meeting online every Sunday. We're a space for people to explore faith honestly, ask the hard questions, and discover that following Jesus isn't about being perfect — it's about being loved and learning to love like Him.

Join the conversation at crowd.church

For more info, please visit https://crowd.church/talks/the-jesus-nobody-warned-you-about

What If the Easter Story Is Actually True? Historical Evidence for the Resurrection

What if the resurrection really happened? This Easter, Dan examines the historical evidence behind the most extraordinary claim in history. Rather than treating Easter as simply a feel-good story, he walks through the eyewitness accounts, from the women who first discovered the empty tomb to the 500 witnesses the apostle Paul records in 1 Corinthians 15. Along the way, he uses the remarkable transformation of a dragonfly nymph to illustrate what resurrection actually means — not becoming someone different, but becoming fully alive. Hosts Will and Anna then unpack the implications in Conversation Street, asking why so many people accept Christian values but stop short of the resurrection itself.

Key Points: Historical evidence for the resurrection [05:04] · Women as first witnesses and what that tells us [06:30] · Paul’s 500 eyewitnesses [15:00] · The dragonfly transformation analogy [17:00] · What Easter means for us today [24:00]

Easter as History, Not Just a Story

Timestamp: 05:04

Dan opens by challenging the way we often approach Easter — as a familiar narrative rather than a historical claim. He draws a clear distinction between story and history.

“Easter is a historical account of Jesus of Nazareth. Being crucified... and then rising from the dead. A miracle in history.” — Dan

He highlights a detail that historians find significant — the first witnesses to the empty tomb were women. In first-century Jewish culture, women’s testimony was not considered legally credible. If the early church were fabricating the resurrection story, using women as the primary witnesses would have undermined their case.

“If you’re going to start a religion or a movement on this pivotal, pivotal point, you’re probably going to get some men really recording these first sightings.” — Dan

This detail, Dan argues, actually strengthens the credibility of the accounts. The writers recorded what happened, even when it was culturally inconvenient.

500 Witnesses and the Weight of Evidence

Timestamp: 15:00

Moving beyond the Gospel accounts, Dan turns to Paul’s letter to the Corinthians, written within roughly 20 years of the resurrection. Paul lists multiple appearances of the risen Jesus, culminating in a remarkable claim — that over 500 people saw Him at once, and most of them were still alive at the time of writing.

“If you don’t believe me, loads of them are still alive, go and ask them.” — Dan, paraphrasing Paul

Key pieces of evidence Dan highlights:

• Multiple independent eyewitness accounts across different Gospels
• The Road to Emmaus encounter in Luke 24, where two disciples walked and talked with Jesus without recognising Him at first
• Paul’s appeal to living witnesses — an invitation to verify his claims
• Thomas demanding physical proof and Jesus willingly showing His scars

From Nymph to Dragonfly — What Resurrection Really Looks Like

Timestamp: 17:00

Dan introduces a striking analogy drawn from a nature documentary about dragonflies. A dragonfly nymph lives underwater for years, breathing through gills, before climbing out of the water and transforming into something entirely new — yet still recognisably itself.

He connects this to Paul’s teaching in 1 Corinthians 15 about resurrection bodies. Using The Message translation, Dan explores how our current bodies are like seeds planted in the ground. What comes up is the same life, but expressed in a radically different form.

The point is powerful — resurrection is not about becoming someone else. It is about becoming who you were always meant to be, fully alive and fully transformed.

“He’s alive. Get to know this Jesus because He’s alive.” — DanWhy the Resurrection Cannot Be Separated from Easter

Timestamp: 29:55

In Conversation Street, Will and Anna explore a question that many people wrestle with — why accept the moral teachings of Christianity while rejecting the resurrection?

“If you take that resurrection out of the Easter story, actually you’ve taken all the power away.” — Anna

The conversation covers several important threads:

• Without the resurrection, Christianity becomes a set of good ideas rather than a living faith
• The resurrection is what gives meaning to suffering, sacrifice and hope
• Jesus’ scars after rising were not removed — they became part of His testimony

“As the tomb breaks open, it just breaks open our expectations of Jesus as well.” — Will

Dan’s central challenge echoes throughout the conversation:

“What if it’s true? What are you going to do? You’ve got to dismiss it or you’ve got to accept it.” — Dan

Anna closes with a simple but direct invitation:

“Ask God to show you, because I believe He will.” — AnnaAbout

Dan is one of the regular speakers at Crowd Church, an online church community based in Liverpool. This Easter message was hosted by Will and Anna.

Join the conversation at crowd.church

For more info, please visit https://crowd.church/talks/what-if-the-easter-story-is-actually-true

What do you do when life throws something at you that feels impossible to face? In this powerful episode of Crowd Church, Ade Birkby tackles the raw reality of suffering, fear, and what it truly means to follow Jesus through the hardest moments of life.

Ade opens with a disarming question about vulnerability before sharing a gripping story about a kayaking crisis at sea [05:09]. From there, he takes us to the Garden of Gethsemane — not the peaceful park we might imagine, but an olive press where Jesus himself was crushed under the weight of what lay ahead [08:20]. Walking through the Gospel accounts [09:39], Ade draws out three lessons about honesty, crying out, and embracing suffering rather than running from it [11:17]. The conversation then turns to what God actually promises us in hardship [15:04], the role of community in carrying burdens [21:39], and a rich Conversation Street segment exploring Palm Sunday expectations and where God is when everything falls apart [23:44].

The Garden Was an Olive Press, Not a Park [08:20]

Ade reframes the Garden of Gethsemane in a way that changes how we read the story. This was not a tranquil retreat — it was an olive press, a place of crushing. Jesus chose to go there, fully aware of what was coming, and his response was strikingly honest. As Ade highlighted from Mark 14:34, Jesus told his disciples, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death.” That kind of raw vulnerability from the Son of God gives permission for every believer to be honest about their own pain.

Three Lessons from the Darkest Night [11:17]

From the Gethsemane account, Ade drew out three practical lessons for anyone facing something that feels unbearable. First, Jesus was honest about his suffering. Second, he cried out to his Father. Third, Jesus embraced the situation rather than fleeing from it. Quoting Matthew 26:45-46, Ade pointed to Jesus saying “Rise, let us go” — walking towards the very thing that would destroy him, not away from it.

God Promises Presence, Not Comfort [15:04]

Ade argued that God is not a shelter from hardship, and that 1 Corinthians 10:13 is often misquoted. Matt reinforced this, saying, “God is not so concerned with our comfort as he is with our transformation and our freedom.” Dan noted that “people say 'I've lost my faith,' but often what they've actually lost is what they thought Jesus was gonna do for them.”

Where Is God in the Suffering? [23:44]

Ade offered this: “God was hanging on the cross for them, the same way he was hanging on the cross for you, for me, for everyone else. That is where God is in all of this — hanging on the cross. So the horrors that we see in this life are the last horrors that we will see in any life.” Sonia echoed: “One step at a time and know with complete confidence that God is with us.”

Join the conversation at crowd.church

For more info, please visit https://crowd.church/talks/facing-the-unfaceable

What if the most valuable thing you leave behind has nothing to do with money? In Part 5 of the Stewardship series, Dave Connolly explores what it means to build a living legacy — one shaped not by financial wealth but by faith, relationships, and the stories we pass on. Joined by John Birch and Matt Edmundson, the conversation moves through biblical examples of generational impact, the power of testimony, and what happens when legacy includes pain as well as blessing.

In this episode, we cover:

• 00:00 — Welcome and introductions
• 05:35 — Dave's teaching on living legacy
• 24:19 — Conversation Street begins
• 34:11 — Mentoring, accountability, and honest relationships
• 51:38 — God as a generational God and the legacy of Paul

A Living Legacy Starts Before You Die

[05:35]

Dave Connolly opens by reframing what legacy actually means. In the Bible, inheritance wasn't something you could only receive after someone died. The prodigal son received his while his father was still alive. Dave argues that building a living legacy requires intentionality — and that the riches we pass on may not be pounds, premium bonds, or property at all.

"We may not have any grand financial inheritance to leave anybody, but we can leave a treasure. The memories that people have of us should help shape their lives to trust God." — Dave Connolly

He draws on biblical examples including Abraham's obedience, Ruth and Naomi's loyalty, and how Timothy's faith was shaped not only by the Apostle Paul but by his grandmother Eunice. The thread running through each story is the same — legacy is built through modelling, not just talking.

When Legacy Includes Pain

[28:40]

The conversation takes an honest turn when a viewer raises the topic of generational trauma. John Birch shares how one of his sons wrote a letter after counselling, describing a version of their family history that John and his wife Sally did not recognise. Rather than becoming defensive, John talks about the importance of staying open to those conversations.

"Clearly we do our best as parents. We are learning on the job. And sometimes we get it wrong. But the important thing is to be able to have these conversations." — John Birch

Dave adds that broken people often break other people, sometimes unintentionally. He stresses the need for repentance and honest dialogue within families. John then shares a deeply personal story about his son's sexuality, and how choosing love over judgement brought them closer together.

"I don't profess to understand it all, but I love him deeply. And we love deeply him and his partner. That's what it's about." — John BirchConsistency Over Perfection

[39:17]

Both Dave and John have faced serious health scares — Dave survived seven cardiac events in a day and a half, and John was resuscitated after a cardiac arrest. These experiences sharpened their thinking about what really matters.

Dave recalls lying on the operating table, uncertain whether he would survive another stent procedure, and finding himself simply grateful — for Julie, for his children, for being part of what God had done.

"People, when they look at us, they're not looking for perfection. They're looking for consistency, that we live out what we talk about." — Dave Connolly

The practical takeaway is clear. Legacy is not built in dramatic moments but in the everyday pattern of how we live — showing up at 11pm to fix someone's shower, welcoming strangers into your home, or simply being faithful over decades.

Legacy Without Children and the Power of Story

[44:51]

A viewer asks how someone without children can still leave a legacy. John responds with four words that sum up the possibilities — prayer, presence, participation, and provision.

Matt draws out a wider point about God being a generational God — someone who identifies Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, always thinking beyond the individual. He points to Paul writing letters from a Roman prison, never imagining those words would still be read 2,000 years later.

"People may die young, but they never die early. God's time is perfect." — Dave Connolly

John recommends StoryWorth, a service that prompts you with questions about your life and compiles the answers into a book for your family — a reminder that recording your story is one of the simplest and most lasting things you can do.

About Crowd Church

Crowd Church is a digital-first church based in Liverpool, England, pastored by Matt Edmundson. Whether you have been following Jesus for years or are just starting to explore faith, you are welcome here. Sunday services include teaching, community conversation, and a live Q&A segment called Conversation Street.

Join the conversation at crowd.church

For more info, please visit https://crowd.church/talks/you-dont-need-money-to-leave-a-legacy

The number in your bank account has nothing to do with how much you matter. In Part 4 of our series on money, Will Sopwith explores what the Bible actually says about wealth, poverty, and human worth. Using the contrasting stories of John D. Rockefeller and St. Francis of Assisi, Will unpacks why money has become a false measure of value — and why God sees things very differently. Drawing on research into privilege, cognitive bandwidth, and the empathy-eroding effects of wealth, this talk is both challenging and quietly hopeful.

Timestamps:

1. 07:28 — Two boys, two very different endings
2. 09:38 — What does God actually think about wealth?
3. 18:12 — The Monopoly problem and systemic inequality
4. 23:00 — When wealth becomes an anaesthetic
5. 35:45 — Conversation Street Q&A

Two Boys, Two Very Different Endings (07:28)

Will opens with a tale of two lives. The first boy grew up in a single-parent household, one of six children, largely abandoned by a conman father. His Baptist mother instilled hard work, saving, and generosity. Through relentless application of those lessons, he became the wealthiest man in modern history — John D. Rockefeller. What's less well known is how he used his wealth, giving hundreds of thousands to churches, schools, and missionary projects, founding universities and an international public health foundation.

The second boy was born into wealth, destined for greatness. After being captured in war and falling ill, his old life of comfort started to feel hollow. At 24 he renounced everything publicly — literally stripping off his fine clothes in the town square — and became St. Francis of Assisi, taking a vow of poverty.

Two lives that went in opposite directions financially. Both ended up recognising that wealth for its own sake was never the answer.

"Money is just a thing. It was never meant to define you." — Will SopwithWhat Does God Actually Think About Wealth? (09:38)

Does the Bible favour the rich or the poor? Both camps have their proof texts. Some Christians will tell you wealth is an unambiguous sign of God's blessing. Others argue God is primarily on the side of the poor. Research in America found that 80% of people believe the phrase "God helps those who help themselves" is in the Bible (it isn't. It's from an Aesop fable).

But scripture doesn't take either side. Leviticus 19:15 says plainly — do not show favouritism to the poor or the rich, judge on the basis of what is right.

God loves the rich. God loves the poor. God loves those who think they're poor but are actually rich. Where your bank balance sits has zero bearing on God's attention, love, or classification of you.

"Wealth is neither a guaranteed sign of God's blessing, nor is a lack of it a guaranteed sign of God's curse." — Matt EdmundsonThe Monopoly Problem and Systemic Inequality (18:12)

Will draws on research by Sendhil Mullainathan which found that poverty produces a genuine lack of mental bandwidth. Worrying about food, rent, and keeping the lights on literally reduces cognitive capacity — IQ scores drop, decision-making deteriorates, and the capacity to learn, network, and invest shrinks. It's not a character flaw. It's what chronic financial stress does to a human brain.

Imagine playing Monopoly where your opponent gets both dice and starts with £2,000 while you get one die and £10. As your opponent starts accumulating properties, they might genuinely believe they're simply a better player. Will reflects honestly on his own salary — built on a stable family, a good postcode, an education, access to healthcare and the rule of law, and a skin tone and accent that weren't disadvantaged at job interviews.

When Wealth Becomes an Anaesthetic (23:00)

Paul Piff at UC Berkeley found that as people get richer — even in a game of Monopoly where the wealth isn't real — their empathy decreases. Wealthier participants became worse at reading facial expressions, more likely to attribute success to their own skill rather than luck, and less generous even in controlled experiments. In a separate study, Piff tracked which cars stopped at pedestrian crossings. Cars with higher values were far less likely to stop.

"Wealth can act as an anaesthetic. It numbs you to the pain of others." — Will Sopwith

Proverbs 22:2 says, "The rich and the poor have this in common. The Lord is the maker of them all." Both are made by the same maker, both made for relationship with God and each other.

"Net worth doesn't change your worth." — Will Sopwith

1 Timothy 6:17-19 is the instruction, "don't be arrogant, don't put your hope in wealth — but do be generous and willing to share." It's not about the amount. It's about the posture.

"If you feel superior to the poor, you have forgotten your maker. If you feel inferior to the rich, you have forgotten your maker." — Will SopwithAbout Crowd Church

Crowd Church is a digital-first church based in Liverpool, England, hosted by Matt Edmundson. Each week features a Sunday talk followed by Conversation Street — where the talk ends and the real conversation begins.

This week's talk was delivered by Will Sopwith as Part 4 in our series on Money. Next week, Dave Conolly joins us to talk about Legacy.

Join the conversation at crowd.church

For more info, please visit https://crowd.church/talks/when-your-wealth-defines-your-worth

Ever noticed how tightly you hold onto money — and how uneasy you feel whenever someone mentions generosity? Matt Edmundson explores why giving feels so risky, and why it has very little to do with your bank balance. We look at what Paul meant when he called giving "grace," why a poor widow's two coins outweighed millions, and what happens when you finally open your fist.

Jump to a section:

• 09:19 — Why a monkey trap explains your relationship with money
• 10:27 — Grace changes how you count
• 14:32 — Two coins that outweighed millions
• 18:12 — You can tithe and still have a closed fist
• 24:30 — Conversation Street

Why a Monkey Trap Explains Your Relationship with Money

[09:19]

There's a piece of Victorian folklore about catching a monkey. You hollow out a coconut, chain it to a tree, cut a hole just big enough for the monkey's hand, and drop some peanuts inside. The monkey reaches in, grabs the peanuts, and now its fist is too big to pull back out.

The monkey isn't trapped by the coconut. It's trapped by its own refusal to let go.

Matt uses this as a picture of how many of us relate to money. A closed fist keeps us stuck in more ways than we realise. And it's the act of letting go — not holding tighter — that sets us free.

Grace Changes How You Count

[10:27]

In 2 Corinthians, Paul is organising a financial gift from the church in Corinth — a prosperous trade city, a lot like Liverpool — to Jewish believers in Jerusalem who were facing real hardship. The word Paul keeps using to describe this gift isn't "obligation" or "duty." It's grace. Grace is when someone gives you something you didn't earn and can't repay.

Matt was honest about getting this wrong over the years — seasons of token tipping, treating giving like a deal ("I gave, so where's my blessing?"), and a stretch where church giving felt like a membership fee. None of that is what Paul is describing.

Instead, Paul points to the Macedonian church — people in extreme poverty whose "abundance of joy" overflowed into "a wealth of generosity." These are people choosing between feeding their children and sending money to strangers. And choosing to give. Not recklessly, but because they had experienced God's grace.

"Grace opens a fist, because a closed fist cannot receive." — Matt EdmundsonTwo Coins That Outweighed Millions

[14:32]

Jesus is sitting in front of the offering box at the synagogue. The box was shaped like a trumpet — metal — so that when coins dropped in, they made noise. The more you gave, the louder it was. The wealthy givers made a lot of noise.

Then a poor widow dropped in two small coins. It would have been almost silent.

"I tell you the truth, this poor widow has given more than all the rest of them. For they have given a tiny part of their surplus, but she, poor as she is, has given everything she has." — Jesus

Heaven's accounting doesn't measure amount. It measures sacrifice. Matt reflected on this and suggested Jesus didn't whisper it — everyone would have heard. Because in God's kingdom, two small coins can mean more than millions.

You Can Tithe and Still Have a Closed Fist

[18:12]

Matt addressed the tithe question directly — giving a percentage of your income to the church, which depending on your theology ranges between 10% and 23%. He believes regular proportional giving is important.

But he didn't want to spend time on the mechanics, because the heart has to come first.

"You can tithe and still have a closed fist. Which is why grace has to be the foundation of your giving and definitely not legalism." — Matt Edmundson

Generosity isn't a formula. It's a posture.

Matt shared a personal story from early in his faith, when he went overboard with credit cards, thinking God would simply provide. Wrong thinking produced a wrong outcome, and he ended up tens of thousands in debt. It was in that season — buried in debt, newly married — that he had to figure out not just what to give, but why.

One moment stood out. He put his watch in the offering. Not because he had to. Because he wanted to. And at that point, he was a cheerful giver. "And you know what?" he said. "It was really, really freeing."

Conversation StreetIs it harder to be generous when you're comfortable?

[25:38]

Matt raised a striking observation — Africa, the poorest continent, gives proportionately almost double what Europe gives. Many of the best stories of giving and God's provision come from seasons when people didn't have much to spare. He wondered whether comfort quietly kills the adventure of generosity.

Anna shared a powerful story from her gap year. She had just £160 to her name when someone prayed with her and said, "I just feel like you need to give." She gave £100 anonymously to someone she knew needed it. The next day, the exact amount appeared through her door. But the point, she said, wasn't the money. "It was about breaking that hold of fear. Money had a grip on my life."

Is generosity just about money?

[29:58]

Dave challenged the assumption that giving is always financial. He shared his ongoing relationship with a man called Peace who begs outside Tesco — remembering his name, his sandwich order, his coffee. "Time is really important," Dave said. "He needs to know he's valued."

Alicia commented that time is what she has most trouble giving because she's an introvert and feels depleted after giving a lot of herself. Dave's response was gentle but direct — do it joyfully, and God always honours obedience.

Matt pulled the threads together — your time, your treasure, your talent, your tongue. All of these are areas where generosity can flow. And God tends to challenge us in the area where we have least, because that's where the faith is.

Should we give a flat percentage or more if we earn more?

[36:48]

Dave's advice was straightforward — give what God has laid on your heart and give it joyfully. Don't overthink it. He shared his own story of when he and his wife Julie, just married with a new baby, felt prompted to empty their entire bank account. They told no one. Within days, bags of food started appearing on their doorstep.

Matt added an important caveat — these stories can be dangerous if we hear them as formulas. "You give away a car, God gives you a car." That's not how it works. The point isn't the transaction. The point is the heart behind the open hand.

Something to Try This Week

• Give something that costs you this week. Not out of guilt — out of grace.
• Ask yourself where money has a grip. Where does fear tighten your fist?
• Try generosity outside of money. Give your time to someone who doesn't expect it.
• If you're struggling financially, hear this clearly. This is not a message asking you to give instead of paying your bills.
• Sit with this verse. "God is able to make all grace abound towards you, so that you, having all sufficiency in all things at all times, may abound in every good work."

A closed fist can't hold what God is offering. But an open hand? That's where grace flows.

For more info, please visit https://crowd.church/talks/your-money-has-a-grip-on-you

Does your job feel like it's slowly becoming the whole of who you are? When someone asks what you do, does your answer make you stand a little taller — or quietly shrink? You're not alone. And you might be living inside a story about work that isn't serving you well.

This week, Mike Harris — former professional footballer, PE teacher, and now full-time gardener — brings an honest and surprisingly liberating look at what the Bible actually says about work, identity, and who we're really doing it all for.

What We Explore

Mike's journey through several careers gives him real credibility here. He knows what it's like to introduce yourself as a footballer before you even say your name — and then feel the quiet shame when that's gone. He also knows what it's like to leave a secure job because you've decided God is your provider. This conversation draws on all of it.

[05:00] Two Stories Culture Tells Us About Work

Mike identifies two narratives most of us unconsciously absorb. The first is the weekend warrior idea — work is just what you do to fund the good bits. The problem is you never have quite enough, so the chase never ends. The second is more insidious: your job is your identity. What you do is who you are.

"I would introduce myself as a footballer before I told people my name. When that ended, I felt the embarrassment of being 'just a student.' My job had become part of my identity."

What we explore:

1. Why both cultural narratives ultimately fail us
2. The story the Bible tells instead — from Genesis to Revelation
3. Why the narrative we live inside shapes everything about how we work

Key takeaway: The story you think you're living in determines how you see your work.

[15:00] Work Before the Fall

One of the most grounding ideas in Mike's talk: work was not a consequence of the fall. It was there from the beginning. God created order out of chaos — the Hebrew tohu vohu, wild and waste — and then placed humans in the garden to continue that work.

"Work is not the problem. It's the toil that was the result."

What we explore:

1. What Genesis actually says about work and its origins
2. The difference between work and toil — and why that matters on a Monday
3. Why we won't escape work in the end, but we will escape the weeds

Key takeaway: The hope isn't to escape work. It's to one day work without the toil.

[19:00] Working for an Audience of One

If work was designed by God and we bear his image before we've done a single day's work — what does that mean for how we approach it? Mike argues we work for an audience of one, and that this is genuinely freeing.

"Work does not appease God, but it can bring him glory."

What we explore:

1. Why your value is established before you start working
2. What it means to imitate God in everyday work
3. How creating order, beauty, and service connects us to our creator
4. Mike's blind client — and why he doesn't take shortcuts

Key takeaway: You bear God's image before you've done a thing. Your worth isn't in your output.

[26:47] Conversation Street

The discussion after Mike's talk got honest quickly. Will shared that he's leaving his job on Tuesday — and unpacked the pressure of feeling like you should be "fulfilling your potential" through a career. Sonia shared from the community chat that being medically retired had cost her her identity for a long time. And Matt brought a story about prayer, provision, and what happened when he stopped treating his employer as his provider.

"I think it's a lie to believe you're not enslaved to anything. We get to choose what we are enslaved to. I've just chosen to enslave myself to God." — Mike Harris

Community wisdom:

1. When potential becomes a burden, it's probably gone too far
2. Sonya from the chat: "When I was having a bad day at work, I'd take a breath and remember I was working for God. It allowed me to give people more grace."
3. Mike: if work is genuinely damaging your health, you are not trapped — God is your provider
4. Matt: Paul wrote his most joyful letter from a jail cell, chained to his jailer — and it's still changing lives 2,000 years later

Key takeaway: We all choose what we're enslaved to. The question is whether we're choosing wisely.

About Mike Harris

Mike Harris is a former professional footballer and PE teacher who spent 15 years as head of department at a Catholic comprehensive school. After leaving due to work-related stress, he retrained as a gardener — a decision he says only made sense because he genuinely trusted that God was his provider. He now brings both practical experience and theological reflection to questions about work, vocation, and what it means to do things well.

For more info, please visit https://crowd.church/talks/when-work-feels-like-all-you-are

Does the question of money keep you up at night? Or do you ever wonder why — no matter how much you have — it never quite feels enough? Pete Farrington opens a new five-part series at Crowd Church with a question that gets to the heart of it all: is money your servant, or your master?

This is a refreshingly honest conversation about something Jesus talked about more than almost any other subject. Pete draws on Matthew 6, 1 Timothy 6, Psalm 24, and Psalm 49 to build a picture of money that challenges both the prosperity gospel and the poverty gospel — and points instead to something genuinely good.

[03:36] Why the Bible Talks So Much About Money

Pete opens by noting that Jesus spoke about money more than he spoke about heaven and hell combined. But the reason, he suggests, is that we're never really just talking about money. We're talking about longing, desire, hope, safety, and fear.

"It only took me about two minutes to realise we're not really talking about money. We're talking about something far deeper than that."

What we discover:

• Why the Bible's teaching on money is as relevant now as it was 2,000 years ago
• John D. Rockefeller's famous answer to "how much is enough?" — and why we all recognise it
• Why money is never a neutral topic

Key takeaway: Our relationship with money reveals far more about us than we might be comfortable with.

[05:48] God vs Mammon: Matthew 6:24

Pete walks through Jesus' startling statement in the Sermon on the Mount — that we cannot serve both God and mammon. The Greek word mammon, he explains, means treasure or riches, and Jesus is personifying wealth as a rival master competing for our allegiance.

"Money isn't neutral. It's an excellent servant, but it's a terrible master."

What we explore:

• What it actually means to "serve" money — and how it mirrors what it means to serve God
• Why you don't have to be rich to serve mammon
• John Piper's framework: both money and God demand that you arrange your whole life around what they promise to give you

Key takeaway: The question isn't how much you have. It's where you've placed your trust.

[12:05] The Love of Money — and the Misquote We All Know

1 Timothy 6 is one of the most frequently misquoted passages in the Bible. Pete clears up the confusion: it's not money that is the root of all evil. It's the love of money.

"If you love money, you will dash the system of your heart to pieces so that all you have left are broken shards with which to scoop up sewage water that will only poison and kill and never satisfy. And all the while, the waterfall of God's love stands behind you, just waiting to quench your thirst."

What we discover:

• Why you can be broke and still love money
• Why you can be wealthy and hold it with an open hand
• The difference between desiring to be rich and desiring to fund God's work in the world

Key takeaway: Godliness with contentment is great gain. The problem is never the money — it's what we trust it to do for us.

[14:52] Stewards, Not Owners

Psalm 24:1 makes a radical claim: the earth is the Lord's, and everything in it. Pete unpacks what this means for how we think about the things we own — drawing on King David's response when he handed over a vast fortune to build the temple.

"Everything comes from you, and we have only given you what comes from your hand." — 1 Chronicles 29

Practical questions Pete raises:

• When you give, do you feel like you are losing something — or returning something?
• How would you manage your finances differently if you genuinely believed you were managing someone else's money?
• What does tithing actually mean — and why does the other 90% matter just as much?

Key takeaway: We are stewards, not owners. That changes everything about how we hold what we have.

[18:58] The Rich Young Ruler

A young man with great wealth comes to Jesus asking what he needs to do to inherit eternal life. He's done everything right. Jesus looks at him and says: sell everything, give to the poor, and come follow me. The man walks away sad.

"His problem was not that he had great possessions. His problem was that he was unwilling to give them up — because he viewed them as a surer source of satisfaction than Jesus."

Key takeaway: Too many of us are planning for retirement but not for eternity.

[24:36] Conversation StreetIs debt the same as serving mammon — even when you haven't got much?

Matt Edmundson and Dan Orange explore Pete's point that a poor person can serve mammon by obsessing over getting it just as easily as a rich person can serve it by obsessing over keeping it. The love of money is not dependent on wealth levels — you don't need money to be mastered by it.

How do you actually live contentedly? Is it possible to enjoy money without being mastered by it?

This is the real tension — and the hosts sit with it honestly. God gives good gifts and intends us to enjoy them. But the same gifts can become gods. Ade Birkby shares how health challenges in his household over recent years have unexpectedly clarified what actually matters. Matt reflects on the boat he nearly justified as a ministry tool. Dan wrestles with holidays, home repairs, and where priorities really lie. Ade sums it up: "Who's the tool?" — are you using money, or is money using you?

Can you share a personal example of trusting God with money?

Three stories — each worth hearing. Ade on a difficult season early in his marriage when he couldn't find work, and what that time built in his relationship with his stepdaughter. Dan on leaving a secure job at BT without a clear plan and finding freedom on the other side. Matt on praying for Duracell batteries as a student — specifically Duracell — and finding a pack of four on his doorstep the next morning, two already removed.

Key takeaway: Very often the things we pray for deliverance from turn out to be some of the greatest areas of God's grace in our lives.

Join the conversation at crowd.church

For more info, please visit https://crowd.church/talks/when-enough-is-never-enough