Art and Deb Brammer join host Steve Anderson for a conversation this week about their 26 year ministry in New Zealand. In an increasingly secular land, once proclaiming itself to be a christian nation, Art & Deb recently graduated a church plant and saw a member of their own flock raised up to pastor the church in Invercargill. Their insight on relational evangelism, long-term ministry endeavoring, and ministry in secularized western nations will be a challenge and encouragement to you.