Jens Heycke was educated in Economics and Near Eastern Studies at the University of Chicago, the London School of Economics, and Princeton University. Since retiring from the tech startup industry, he has worked as an independent researcher and writer on culture and ethnic conflict, conducting field research around the world, from Bosnia to Botswana. The conversation begins with the cultural term “melting pot,” which was a commonly used term in recent American history. Backed by his research, Jens explains why it is harmful to identify people based on race or immutable characteristics. This led to further conversation about the integration of immigrants, affirmative action, identity politics, and more. Midway through the conversation, Peter steelmans claims from Jens's book, Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire. The resulting discussion is as fascinating as it is *truly* diverse—Jens pulls data and anecdotes from the 40 countries he visited while researching and writing his book. Watch this episode on YouTube.