In this weeks-late release (blame Mr. Flounce) we ask: Is it ever a good idea to fire someone for saying crazy, wrong, and/or threatening things in public? Nina would like to always say no, but even she admits that in some occupations, such as medical care, stating you want certain ethnic groups to die is grounds for dismissal. But most canceling is motivated by a lust for revenge, not safety, despite protestations of “accountability” and “consequences”. We also discuss a very bad spider bite, distracting kittens, taglines, Groypers, Jimmy Kimmel, misinformation, moral outrage, Schadenfreude, gay vs homosexual vs queer, and Hey Zeus!

Links:

Little Britain “I’m a Laydee!”: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2qahpm

Did Jimmy Kimmel fire his announcer for not getting a covid vaccine? https://www.facebook.com/terrencekwilliams/posts/jimmy-kimmel-fired-dicky-barrett-after-almost-20-years-of-announcing-the-show-be/1403479137804487/

Nick Fuentes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fuentes

Log Cabin Republicans: https://logcabin.org/

GOProud: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GOProud

Cori calls Nina’s cats gay on X: https://x.com/heterodorx/status/1960836018359427549

Nina’s wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Paley

Stop Antisemitism X account: https://x.com/StopAntisemites

Accused Rapist Shot by Alleged Victim: https://fox59.com/news/accused-rapist-shot-by-alleged-victim-and-arrested-an-hour-later-in-speedway/

The Dorx record the day after the assassination of Charlie Kirk, which happens to be the 24th anniversary of the World Trade Center attacks. We reminisce about 9-11-01: where we were, how we felt, how we’ve changed since. Then we discuss the current climate of political violence, comparing the reaction to Kirk’s death to that of George Floyd’s. Then Cori edits out 18 minutes about people denouncing him online, because it’s Rosh Hashanah and why carry resentments into the new year? So suddenly you’ll hear both of us talking about kittens.

The Dorx discuss Robin/Robert Westman, the psychotic Minneapolis Catholic school shooter. Was he left-wing or right-wing? Does trans ideology cause psychosis, or is it just coincidental? What is the difference between racism and white nationalism? Do women owe the world reproductive labor? What might happen to Cori as the political wrecking-ball pendulum keeps swinging rightward? Was the Unicorn Ranch llamas or alpacas? Plus: Cori insists trannies are a class but TERFs are not, because he doesn’t get intersectionality. Why didn’t we just talk about kittens?

Links:

Robert/Robin Westman: https://www.thetimes.com/us/news-today/article/robert-westman-trans-name-change-manifesto-mary-family-bfhps6kkf

Westman’s Manifesto transcription: https://x.com/FrancisAaronUK/status/1961085415445660009

Westman journal excerpt about racism, Native Americans: https://x.com/FrancisAaronUK/status/1961149304053125196

Matt Walsh says women owe children to the world: https://x.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1951280351784907005

Christopher Rufo: “we should now put to rest the libertarian delusion…” https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1960769904258469938

Free Press: Robin Westman and the Rise of American Nihilism: https://www.thefp.com/p/robin-westman-and-the-rise-of-american-nihilism-minneapolis-shooting

Unicorn Ranch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenacious_Unicorn_Ranch

Agents of HAG & Compliance Comix: https://store.ninapaley.com/product/compliance-comix/

Protect Trans Kids weapons tshirt: https://www.amazon.com/Protect-Trans-Knife-Pride-T-Shirt/dp/B0BZBHJ4TQ

confirmation bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Andrea James website: https://www.transgendermap.com/

Knife-wielding Scottish lass

WDI Convention: https://womensdeclarationusa.com/wdi-usa-2025-national-convention/

The Naked Gun: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3402138/

You may recognize Katie Herzog’s journalism and podcasting, but did you also know she’s soon-to-be famous for her alcoholism? For years she hid it from the world and her exceptionally gullible wife, but now she tells all in a new book which even longtime twelve-stepper Nina finds persuasive. Can you quit booze while happily retaining your character defects? What is Naltrexone? Does everyone get a “buzz” from drinking? Does Nina get pleasure from anything? Plus: amusing recollections of drunken episodes and blackouts, getting older and more isolated, extinguishing desires, AA vs. Al-Anon, Kokomo, Kokomo, why you should never apologize, and tips on how to hide both drinking and smoking from your spouse!

Links:

Drink Your Way Sober by Katie Herzog: https://www.drinkyourwaysober.com/

The Sinclair Method: https://www.sinclairmethod.org/what-is-the-sinclair-method-2/

Syn-Anon documentary: https://www.hbomax.com/shows/synanon-fix/a27b5e0a-68eb-48e2-baa6-2b0f01d5b8be

Cori and Nina chit-chat about things that have nothing to do with gender: heat indices, ducktails, cat poop, impermanence, Hulk Hogan, Conway’s Game of Life, Michigan in the summer, Permethrin, online shopping, Spaceballs, elephants, and The Book of Job. But other topics in our wandering conversation are inevitably related to gender: Psycho, synthetic blue velvet dresses, hijabs, and a recently-deceased poet. As always, we ask the important questions: Why would God create mosquitoes? Does Reality exist beyond our perceptions? Why is 24fps better than 25fps for animators? Does Nina’s loss of her female tonsils make her less of a woman? How many hats does Cori have? (A: too many)

Links:

Benjamin Boyce w/ Cori and Graham Linehan

Psycho shower scene

cloaca: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloaca

Feline Follies (from Nina’s blog): https://ninapaley.com/2025/07/21/feline-follies/

Hulk Hogan dies at 71: https://www.espn.com/wwe/story/_/id/45813406/pro-wrestling-legend-hulk-hogan-dies-age-71

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (again): https://www.vhemt.org/

Conway’s Game of Life: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_Game_of_Life

Permethrin: https://www.sawyer.com/product/permethrin-fabric-treatment-insect-repellent-24-oz-trigger-spray

Informed Dissent

Spaceballs

soma crappy animation Nina DID NOT do: https://www.facebook.com/CoffeemateUSA/videos/23973682502325784/?rdid=0FcIVbVR5QfzzfBb#

The Book of Job

Believe by Ross Douthat

Andrea Gibson’s Love Letter from the Afterlife

Cori returns from San Francisco with brief tales of the Endocrine Society before launching into crazy population projections (AGAIN) and then making some rather provocative arguments. What are Human Rights? Can children consent to irreversible decisions? Is the individual the most important unit of society? Are women never competent? Has Cori been wearing Nina down for an hour and a half, or just an hour? Despite still grieving her cat, Nina does a good job arguing right back and the resulting debate is actually pretty good.

Links:

SF TERF Central: https://x.com/sf_terf_central

Endocrine Society conference in San Francisco: https://www.endocrine.org/meetings-and-events/endo-2025

The Female Eunuch by Germaine Greer: https://seminariolecturasfeministas.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/germaine-greer-the-female-eunuch.pdf

Self-fertilizing plants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-pollination

Mating In Captivity by Esther Perel: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/mating-in-captivity-esther-perel?variant=41231555362850

Human Rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights

The Center for Individual Rights: https://cir-usa.org/

The Age of White Guilt by Shelby Steele: https://cir-usa.org/2002/11/the-age-of-white-guilt-and-the-disappearance-of-the-black-individual/

Nina’s SSDI Blue Book project (on hold for biking season): https://ninapaley.com/2025/05/31/illustrating-the-ssdi-blue-book/

R.I.P. Nina’s cat Lola: https://ninapaley.com/2025/07/10/rest-in-peace-sweet-lola/

Cori speaks at the European Society for Child & Adolescent Psychiatry conference, then returns home to find degenerates everywhere. Meanwhile, Nina’s beloved cat dies. Cori calls out a “Protect the Dolls” campaign; Nina’s lungs improve. Cori has to clean up human feces in his yard; Nina wears a dress. Cori gets into pronatalism and blames Nina for western collapse; Nina sighs. Plus: pain au chocolat, lazy consonants, TSA shoes, cannabinoids, sanitariums, and yelling at clouds.

Links:

European Society for Child & Adolescent Psychiatry in Strasbourg https://www.escap.eu/events/escap-2025-congress-in-strasbourg

Pain au Chocolat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_au_chocolat

TSA shoes: https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/travelers-will-no-longer-have-to-remove-their-shoes-for-tsa/article_c53fe231-d918-40e5-aa53-b7f0084e51ce.html

OutCare - Protect the Dolls: https://mailchi.mp/outcarehealth/september-outtalk-6420697

Dustin Nowaskie: https://www.outcarehealth.org/staff/dustin-nowaskie/

Art Bell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Bell

FTC Hearing: The Dangers of “Gender-Affirming Care” for Minors: https://www.ftc.gov/media/dangers-gender-affirming-care-minors?s=08

On June 18 the Supreme Court of the United States ruled on US v. Skrmetti, deciding whether a Tennessee law prohibiting certain medical interventions on youngsters violates the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment. The Hon. Elspeth Cypher (ret.) a.k.a. Judge TERF joins the Dorx to dissect the case, the decision, the concurrences, and the dissents. Which concurrence is best, Thomas’s or Barrett’s? Does Justice Sotomayor suffer from pathological empathy? If Skrmetti were a pasta, what type of sauce would be best on it? Plus Nina mis-sexes Chase Strangio (whoops!), Cori’s gender is Jewish, and Judge TERF solves the crisis in the Middle East.

Links:

US v. Skrmetti Decision, June 18 2025: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/23-477_2cp3.pdf

Judging US v Skrmetti with Judge TERF, December 2024: https://heterodorx.substack.com/p/judging-us-v-skrmetti-with-judge-891

Cori posts on Thomas’ concurrence: https://x.com/heterodorx/status/1935380685490880949

JD Vance tweets a screenshot of a post on Bluesky reposting Cori’s screenshot from Twitter (what?): https://x.com/JDVance/status/1935457852082016556

How The Transgender Rights Movement Bet On The Supreme Court and Lost by Nicholas Confessore (NYT): https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/19/magazine/scotus-transgender-care-tennessee-skrmetti.html?unlocked_article_code=1.QE8.JUql.PEoYV35S-FVz&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Our episode on NYT podcast The Protocol: https://heterodorx.substack.com/p/episode-171-poop-and-protocol

Glenna Goldis Bad Facts: https://badfacts.substack.com/

Ilya Shapiro - Lawless: https://manhattan.institute/book/lawless-the-miseducation-of-americas-elites

WoLF: https://womensliberationfront.org/

How old is Cori? Will the NYT podcast The Protocol change minds? Is there any competence in the Trump administration? Why is Nina’s cat pooping on the floor? These questions and more are asked, but not entirely answered, as we move in and out of the fetal position, name-drop various GC power players, and read aloud comments from another podcast’s subreddit.

Important note: Cori is COMPLETELY WRONG about last week’s timeline: Nina wrote about her cat 2 days after we recorded last time. Is his muddled thinking a symptom of estrogen withdrawal, or turning 50? SO MANY QUESTIONS

Links:

Pussy Whipped (Nina’s blog): https://blog.ninapaley.com/2025/06/07/pussy-whipped/

Informed Dissent analysis of The Protocol: Part 1

Part 2:

Missing from NYT's podcast THE PROTOCOL (Glenna Goldis on X): https://x.com/glennagoldis/status/1930969733748113531

Elliot Page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Page

Kinnon MacKinnon https://www.yorku.ca/positivechange/2022/06/24/kinnon-mackinnon/

Dude Looks Like A Lady (Aerosmith):

The comments we read from the Blocked & reported subReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/comments/1l1971t/comment/mwmctet/

Credit Is Due (The Attribution Song):

The Young Generation (Cori) reaches out to the Old Generation (Nina) and exhibits patience while pretending to listen to geezer tales of things that go wrong with body parts and the SSDI Blue Book. Then we get into the hip, happenin’, swingin’ NOW with the latest news on gay martyrs, fake martyrs, and trans martyrs. Nina consents to Cori’s exposition on immigration, and somehow gets stuck comparing illiberal policy to her Junior High school cafeteria. Plus: tribal identities, Cori’s synagogue, lenses, spicy food, organ recitals, Title VII, cooling sheets, and a surprisingly out-of-character bathroom joke.

Cori and Nina may not be equals, but they are co-hosts, which is about as close as we can get in this life.

Links

SSDI Blue Book: https://www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/AdultListings.htm

https://blog.ninapaley.com/2025/05/31/illustrating-the-ssdi-blue-book/

Jonathan Joss: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jonathan-joss-killing-police-records-neighbor-dispute-rcna210670

Matthew Shepard: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/26/the-truth-behind-americas-most-famous-gay-hate-murder-matthew-shepard