Why are certs hurting the industry?  Are they really?  How much does it cost to get an entry certification?  Why so much?  Is the process for certifications fair for everyone?  Should companies have a fellowship track for non-manager technologists?  How do we get past this problem?  Is HR in the way of fixing the cyber security hiring crisis?  How hard is it to fix the problem with management and onboarding?  Could a CISO get their own job based on the HR filtering system?  Those questions and more on this episode.