यस्तु सर्वाणि भूतानि आत्मन्येवानुपश्यति।
सर्वभूतेषु चात्मानं ततो न विजुगुप्सते ॥ YASTU SARVANI BHUTANYATMANYE VANU PASYATI

SARVA BHUTESHU CHATMANAM TATO NA BIJIGUPSATE

- 6 ISHAVASYOPANISHAD

He who sees all beings in the Atman (Self), and the Atman (Self) in all beings, does not feel aversion for anything.

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अन्धन्तमः प्रविशन्ति येऽविद्यामुपासते ।
ततो भूय इव ते तमो य उ विद्यायां रताः ॥

ANDHAMTAMAH PRAVISHANTI YE'VIDYAMUPASATE

TATO BHUYA IVA TE TAMO YA U VIDYAYAM RATAH

- 9 ISHAVASYOPANISHAD

They who worship Avidya (ignorance) enter into a blinding darkness, and they who delight in Vidya (knowledge) alone, as if into a greater darkness.

Note: This podcast is in Hindi.

In this episode, J. Krishnamurti (K) answers the third question asked in Alpino, Italy on July 9, 1933. K's answer is covered partially and will be completed in the next episode (Episode 23). In this episode, K challenges the way people deal with suffering. K suggests that most people avoid confronting their inner emptiness by either escaping it or trying to fill it with experiences, both of which are forms of avoidance. This process, driven by craving and the search for satisfaction, is mistaken for progress or growth. True understanding and freedom from suffering, he says, come only by directly facing its cause—not by seeking comfort or distraction. Society may see such a direct approach as pessimism, but K views it as the only path to real insight. The first part of K's answer to the question follows.

Krishnamurti: If there is no conflict, if your life has in it no crises and you are perfectly happy, then why bother about conflicts and crises? If you are not suffering, then I am very glad! Our whole system of of life is arranged so that you may escape from suffering. But the man who faces the cause of suffering, and is thereby freed from that suffering, you call a pessimist.Each one of you is conscious of a great void, an emptiness within you, and being conscious of that emptiness, you either try to fill it or to run away from it; and both acts amount to the same thing. You choose what will fill that emptiness, and this choosing you call progress or experience. But your choice is based on sensation, on craving, and hence involves neither discernment, nor intelligence, nor wisdom. You choose today that which gives you a greater satisfaction, a greater sensation than you receive from yesterday's choice. So what you call choice is merely your way of running away from the emptiness within you, and hence you are merely postponing the understanding of the cause of suffering.

TADEJATI TANNEIJATI TADDURE TADVANTIKE.

TADANTARASYA SARVASYA TADU SARVASYASYA BAHYATAH.

Meaning:It moves, it is motionless. It is far, it is near. It is within all, it is without all this.

Note: This podcast is in Hindi.

J. Krishnamurti: I cannot push you into crisis. Conflict exists in you, but you want to escape that conflict; you want to find a means whereby you can avoid it, postpone it. So when you say, "I cannot resolve my conflict into a crisis," your words merely show that your mind is trying to avoid the conflict - and the freedom that results from facing it completely. As long as your mind is carefully, surreptitiously avoiding conflict, as long as it is searching for comfort through escape, no one can help you to complete action, no one can push you into a crisis that will resolve your conflict. When you once realize this - not see it intellectually, but also feel the truth of it - then your conflict will create the flame which will consume it.

ASURYANAMATELOKA ANDHENA TAMASAVRTAH,

TANSTEPRETYABHIGACHHANTI YE KECHATMAHANOJANAH.

- 3 ISHAVASYOPANISHAD

J. Krishnamurti: Your meditation has no value in itself, as your action has no value in itself, because you are constantly looking for a culmination, a reward. Only when mind and heart are free of this idea of achievement, this idea born of effort, choice, or gain - only when you are free of that idea, I say, is there an eternal life which is not a finality, but an ever-becoming, an ever-renewing.

A PADARTHA (substance) which has some DHARMA cannot give that same GUNA (quality) to itself. For example, fire burns others, but cannot do the KARMA of burning itself. Similarly, the SVAYAMPRAKASHA (self-illuminating) ATMAN (Self) cannot do the the KARMA of illuminating itself.

Note: This podcast is in Hindi.

J. Krishnamurti: Why do you feel that you must meditate? Do you mean by meditation, concentration? If you are really interested, then you do not struggle, force yourself to concentrate. Only when you are not interested do you have to force yourself brutally and violently. But in forcing yourself, you destroy your mind, and then your mind is no longer free, nor is your emotion. Both are crippled. I say that there is a joy, a peace, in meditation without effort, and that can come only when your mind is freed from all choice, when your mind is no longer creating a division in action.

YADA CHARMAVAT AKASHAM VESHTAYISHYANTI MANAVAH.

TADA DEVAM ABIJNAYA DUHKHASYANTO BHAVISHYATI.

- SHVETASHVATARA UPANISHAD 6/20

If someone can roll up the AKASHA (sky, space) like a CHARMASANA (a piece of skin used to sit on) and hold in under his arm, then alone can he obtain the BRAHMANANDA (bliss of Brahman) by crossing over the sea of sorrow without knowing the ATMADEVA (the God that is the Atman or Self).

Note: This podcast is in Hindi.

J. Krishnamurti: You are always meeting experiences partially, and out of that arises conflict. To overcome that conflict, you say that you must have a principle; you establish a principle, an ideal, and strive to condition your action by it. That is, you are constantly trying to imitate, you are trying to control your daily experience, the actions of your everyday life, through the idea of consistency. But when you really understand it with your heart and mind, with your complete being, then you will see the falsity of imitation and of being consistent. When you are aware of this, you begin to free your mind without effort from this long-established habit of consistency, though this does not mean that you must become inconsistent.