What if getting back at someone isn't as satisfying as we think—and what we're really trying to avoid is grief?

This week on Simplify, Caitlin speaks with psychotherapist, teacher, and author David Richo about his book Sweeter Than Revenge, which makes the case that there's a better way to respond when people hurt us than the one our brains (and basically every movie ever made) are wired for.

Dave has spent decades sitting with people in their messiest, most wounded moments. What he's found is that retaliation isn't really about power or justice. It's about running from grief! We retaliate so we don't have to feel bad. Which, when you think about it, is kind of a bummer.

The conversation gets into the neuroscience of revenge (yes, it lights up reward circuits—but only briefly), why our most beloved stories and films keep selling us the same retaliatory fantasy, and what it actually looks like to choose differently. He and Caitlin also dig into why we hurt the people we love in the first place, and Dave offers four concrete steps for the next time the urge to retaliate arises.

Resources
Sweeter Than Revenge by David Richo

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This episode of Simplify was produced by Caitlin Schiller, Ben Schuman-Stoler, and Joao Lucas in Berlin, Germany, for Kollo Media.