Paul Jay interviews Tom Ferguson about the debt ceiling crisis in the United States. Ferguson explains that the debate over the debt ceiling is largely theater, with both Democrats and Republicans working together to cut spending while maintaining the appearance of opposition. He criticizes the Democrats for not raising the debt ceiling earlier when they had the opportunity and suggests that their reluctance is due to their desire to secure more campaign funding for future elections. Ferguson argues that the spending cuts rolled back are not significant enough to impact inflation and proposes alternative measures, such as taxing the wealthy and reducing defense spending, to address the issue. He also discusses the influence of money in politics and the Democratic Party's efforts to weaken the progressive wing.