Fred Heppner of Arizona Transitions is back for part 2 of his chat with Kiera! Life comes at you fast, and sometimes, it comes in the form of a surprise. Kiera and Fred talk about creating an exit strategy today for your departure from dentistry, as well as what the economics look like for moving on from a practice.

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Transcript

Kiera Dent (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am so excited for you to have part two of me and Fred Heppner going through associates, DSOs, how to really grow this. You guys, we had such an incredible first half of this episode. It was so long and so much information that I wanted to break it into two parts. So here's part two. I hope you enjoy. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

 

Kiera Dent (00:24)

should people be talking

 

when they're in their 20s 30s or is it something we're like start to think about it I know Ryan and I from Dentist advisors we we talk shop about this quite often of like there I mean there are studies that show that when you retire you actually start to atrophy in life and ⁓ there isn't as much of a purpose and so we talk often of like how can we continue that

 

mental stamina, the things that are going to fulfill us, whether it's working or something else of philanthropy, like whatever is going to keep you going as a human, whether you're working in the chair or you're not, I think is important. So that's I was curious of like, really probably connecting with you three to five years before we think we might retire, but with the caveat of, hey, if something were to happen to me, what would kind of be my exit strategy? your like death list like I do, like if I die, this is what's going to happen. It's creepy, but it's awesome.

 

Fred Heppner (01:15)

No, it's, it's creepy and it is awesome. And at the same time, it's a really good conversation to have because if we're three to five years out, then one of the first things to do is say, okay, so what's going to happen if you're not here? And that carries on to the discussion we had earlier. So once the discussion about, what do want to do when you, when you retire or you stop practicing dentistry, then the questions start coming up. What about the economics?

 

Kiera Dent (01:27)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (01:44)

So in any... Yep, absolutely.

 

Kiera Dent (01:44)

I was just going to say, like, is it sell? Is it DSO? it? And also, I mean, this

 

to me also, I think might exponentially accelerate some people's plans because the DSOs are hot and it's like 10x EBITDA. That might accelerate your retirement or your sell because you're on a wave right now that who knows if in the next 20, 30, 40 years we'll be there. Fred, I'm super curious, like, how is this whole DSO model maybe shifting it for transitions? Or is it? I'm curious.

 

Fred Heppner (02:13)

It is, it's shifted quite a bit, but what it's shifted is a real desire for dentists to be able to sell their businesses and release the management responsibility and to have somebody else take that over. 15, 20. Yeah. I just want to do, I just want to do dentistry. I don't want to manage a business. I don't want to manage people. Um, I don't want to run the company. I want to be able to practice my trade. Well,

 

Kiera Dent (02:22)

you

 

The dream for every business owner. ⁓

 

Exactly.

 

Fred Heppner (02:43)

I can tell you that in the last 15, 20 years, it's certainly exploded in dentistry and not in a bad way. And here's why. Dentists graduating from dental school today need a place to work. The banks that loan money to dentists to buy dental practices are looking for dentists that have a couple years experience in dentistry. They have a production track record. The banks can see what it is that the dentist can do. Chair aside.

 

a good credit score and some liquidity, usually 8 to 10 % of the purchase price of the business that they're looking at in cash. So one of the things to consider is graduating dentists should be able to make the minimum payments on their debt, on their student loans, on what debt they have, and begin to put money away as quickly as possible to gain some liquidity. So as we look at the equation of

 

what DSOs are doing, they're providing them with a place to work. Because as dentists come out, I mean, the majority of dental practices that I work with, maybe you can echo this or discuss it, are just single dentist practices. Right, they don't have a, somebody called it a plus one at some point time, and I thought, okay, that's decent. So you have the dentistry, but there's the ability to bring somebody on maybe one or two days a week. Well, that doesn't,

 

Kiera Dent (03:44)

Mm-hmm.

 

Totally same.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (04:09)

That doesn't feed a hungry young dentist coming out of dental school who really has a lot of debt and wants to begin to work and develop a way to reduce that debt. They're looking for four days a week, five. They might have a quality of life thing where they just want to work three tens and be off Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. That's okay. But the point is, is that most private practices don't have the capacity to be able to bring on a full-time dentist and feed them right away and keep them very busy. The DSOs, corporate dentistry,

 

Kiera Dent (04:19)

Right.

 

Fred Heppner (04:39)

have offices that can provide that place. So essentially, if a dentist comes out of school and begins to work, they may very well work for one of the corporate DSOs, which gives them experience. It gives them the ability to work five days a week. It gives them the ability to practice in what I call civilian dentistry out of dental school. And it gives them the opportunity to be able to see what it's really like. I can tell you, Kiera, that 15, I think 15 years ago,

 

Kiera Dent (04:57)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (05:08)

the most popular phone call I would get on my phone line was, hey, we just got 50 million from a private equity firm. We're starting a DSO, but we're different. And we want to buy practices from you because we heard you're good. And I just tell them, great, thanks very much. Get in line, register on my website. And when an opportunity comes up, I will email to you like I do everybody else the opportunity. Because most of my clients call and say, I...

 

Kiera Dent (05:17)

you

 

Fred Heppner (05:34)

Hard no to a DSO. I'm a private practitioner. I've got a legacy practice and I want to sell to another private dentist Okay, so that was the most popular second most popular call was I'm sick of working for a company find me a practice to buy Now it's shifted More so do I hear I'm sick of working for somebody else find me a private practice to buy I'm ready to go The the DSO calls have filtered off of it and I don't know that that's a global

 

Kiera Dent (05:48)

Mm-hmm. ⁓

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (06:03)

representation of the DSOs starting to slow their buying and really focus on the profitability of the offices they have to really maintain the profitability due to higher interest rates. Maybe they're slowing down their buying. Who knows? The interesting thing about it is that it's somewhat of a closed loop in DSO work. You really can't get into and find out exactly what everybody is doing unless you're member of their organizations, which is fine. And I respect that.

 

Kiera Dent (06:12)

Yeah.

 

Fred Heppner (06:32)

private information, but it begs the question. And ultimately, if a dentist is looking to buy their own practice, eventually they're going to need those one to two years experience, liquidity, good credit score, in order for them to go to one of the commercial banks and say, I want to buy a practice and let me get a practice to buy and then we'll put it together. Okay? So I can tell you that private practice is alive and well.

 

Kiera Dent (06:55)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (07:02)

very bullish on the individual dentist who's out there still practicing and doing quite well. I can also tell you that those kinds of doctor to doctor transitions are extremely successful. The idea is some people who look at a transition like that would think, my gosh, the dentist leaves, all the patients will leave. They'll go somewhere else, they'll go to other practices. Well, if that was true, let's carry that forward. If that was true,

 

Kiera Dent (07:14)

Mm-hmm.

 

No.

 

Fred Heppner (07:28)

then that would mean that the loans that the dentist used to buy the practice would go in default, would they not? Because if all the patients left, there would be no revenue and they'd have to fold up camp and see you later, right? The default rate on dental practice loans still over the last 15, 20 years and even recently is 40 basis points. 100 basis points is 1%. 40 basis points is four tenths of 1%. So if you follow the math,

 

Kiera Dent (07:33)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (07:58)

The default rate is less than half of 1 % on the billions of dollars that are loaned by banks for dentists to buy practices. They don't fail. Okay.

 

Kiera Dent (08:08)

Totally. They don't and they're such a

 

good investment. I think that that's why so many people like, that's why I think DSOs are buying up practices. ⁓ And I think that that's where so many private practice owners now, I would say I've watched where it used to be legacy practices and there's still legacy practice doctors who do not want to sell to a DSO. Like when they're there, they want to sell doctor to doctor, they want to bring in an associate, they want to bring in partners. I think

 

By default, dentistry tends to be a more humanistic, ⁓ very relationship model ⁓ versus I still think though, right now DSOs, you're right. I don't think people are getting as many calls. ⁓ But what I will say is my doctors are probably getting 20 to 30 emails every month from a DSO interested in buying their practice. So they are getting it as private practice owners. And so I think that that's where, ⁓ like I said, some people within the last eight years bought a practice as a private practice.

 

the DSOs, they were profitable. were within the metrics that the DSO wanted. And it just made sense. was like, I'm going to get 10x EBITDA on this. My EBITDA is great. No private party is going to pay me what this DSO is going to pay me. And while yes, I'd love it to maintain a legacy practice, I'm in my 30s and I could basically have retirement today. mean, there's more risk selling out because they have a lot of it in their stocks and there's a whole ⁓ game around that.

 

I think that that's where maybe some of the younger generation might be looking at transitions sooner than I think the more senior population of dentistry is. think that they're starting to be the shift and that's where I'm very curious of like, maybe conversations need to be had sooner. Maybe because DSOs are aggressive on the emails to the dentist. Like it is wild and they are sexy offers to them that are not always true. And that creeps me out too, because they're hearing a number. Like I had a doctor and he had a DSO.

 

Fred Heppner (09:49)

Yep. Yep.

 

Kiera Dent (10:04)

come to him and they said, Hey, we're going to give you 5 million. And he's like, here, it seems like a great deal. And I said, yeah, but you're going to do 5 million next year just in your own production. So that's actually a bad deal because you're already going to make that without selling to them and having to work for them for the next five to 10 years or like three to five is usually what their requirement is. So again, I think that this is where it's like, how do we cut through that noise to know when I do transition? Because I think people are getting asked to transition from private practice.

 

sooner. You're right, they go work at the DSO, they go to some of those bigger corporate practices to get the experience, then they go buy their private practice, and then it really is, or they do a startup. And then it's pretty aggressive because I think Wall Street's pretty hot right now and private equity is very, very luring, but they do have to hit certain requirements to join DSOs.

 

Fred Heppner (10:53)

Yeah. There are tons of verticals that people are getting into, the private equity is getting into, you're right. There's a ton of money at it. You know, I would tell you that the devil is in the details. It may very well be that there are transitions that occur where a DSO or a corporation acquires the assets of a private practice and the dentist stays and works back in the office. And that transition works swimmingly well for the dentist who sells for the DSO.

 

Kiera Dent (11:02)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (11:21)

And ultimately everything works out fine. There are others that don't and they're, they're out there. And I think what you mentioned earlier is, you know, I could get 5 million from my practice. Well, why would you, you will be able to make that in, your earnings in 2.3 years, whatever it might be, whatever the math pencils that be. But if you think about it, if it, if 10 times EBITDA is their offering price, what are, what are the details? How much cash at closing?

 

Kiera Dent (11:38)

Right.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (11:49)

Is there a work back or a work back arrangement where you will be paid to be the dentist? And what is your compensation? What are the benefits that you would receive? And what is the term of that work back arrangement? You're right. It's creeping up now more into five years. 15, 20 years ago, was maybe, you know, stay on one or two years and we're good. There's a claw back. There's a hold back provision that holds back part of the purchase price. And the dentist has to meet the

 

Kiera Dent (12:04)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Fred Heppner (12:17)

has to meet certain metrics from the trailing 12 months to be able to get that back. Well, let's pretend. Let's pretend that the DSO comes in and sets up the practice and nothing changes and the business continues to grow and develop because there's more marketing promotion and advertising. There's better cost control. There's just better stuff going on and that works. Well, what if it doesn't? What if all of a sudden the company comes in and says, we're changing these policies?

 

You were Delta Dental Premier, we're jumping into PPOs because we've got really good reimbursement rates on these 12 PPO contracts. Well, if that reimbursement rate drops from fee for service, does that hinder the doctor to be able to generate the income necessary for that hold back to be acquired in the next two to three years? And then there's equity. You mentioned that they offer a stock in the company to be able to ultimately participate in a

 

Kiera Dent (13:09)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (13:15)

recapitalization should that happen? Well, it'd be really interesting. You're going to love this one. I know you're going to love this one. So for any of your listeners, any of your A-Team clients, if they get approached by a DSO and they look at it and they think it's really, really good, have somebody look at it. What you will hear typically is you really don't need an advisor. You don't need an attorney. We've got all the contracts ready to go. You can come.

 

Kiera Dent (13:35)

Mm-hmm.

 

Lies. Lies.

 

Fred Heppner (13:44)

Exactly. You can just take all of this and we'll be good. Well, trust but verify. And ultimately a good team would be able to review these. I would be glad to review. I review paperwork all the time from dentists that are looking to transition. And if there's an equity piece in that offer, I turn around and contact the DSO on behalf of the client. And I say, we'd like to see your financials.

 

Kiera Dent (14:08)

Absolutely.

 

Fred Heppner (14:11)

What do you mean? Well, you're asking my client to acquire stock in your company in lieu of cash at closing. yeah, that's part of the deal. I need to see your financials. I need to advise my client on whether or not you have a healthy company and whether or not my client's going to be at risk by taking stock in your company. Well, nobody's ever asked us that. Well, I am. And doesn't it make sense? We've just provided to you tax returns, profit and loss statements, but sing along if you know the words, balance sheets, W-2, production reports, everything on the business.

 

Kiera Dent (14:21)

Yeah.

 

things.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (14:39)

And yet you're not willing to provide the other. Just provide the other. Show us that your business is solvent. Show it that it is something that my client would like to receive in stock. So, mon bro.

 

Kiera Dent (14:50)

And there's strategy

 

for tax around that too. there are benefits to having stock rather than all the cash at closing for your total dollar amount when you want to retire, but only if that stock actually is valuable.

 

Fred Heppner (15:05)

Pays back. Correct. Good. And that

 

is so brilliant. You see, you're good looking, you're smart, and that's a rare combination today. So, so, but think about it. You just mentioned something that people really don't think. If, if I have a practice and they give me 1.5 million chopped up into the ways that we've mentioned, and I have $200,000 worth of equity in the company, what if that $200,000 is half of 1 %? Well, when they recapitalize, I get half of 1 % of what proceeds, right?

 

Kiera Dent (15:09)

Thank you.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

I love it. It's such a...

 

Fred Heppner (15:35)

So map it out. Yeah, map it out. mean, can

 

you sell your practice twice? sometimes yes, sometimes no.

 

Kiera Dent (15:43)

And there's so many sticky pieces around it. And that's where I feel like it's just a, think this is where people get leery to do it. However, I think like there are some, you said, that go really, really well, but agreed. And when I look at this people like Kiera, like I thought about that doctor and I was like, so sweet. You're going to five mil. That's your 10 X. You're going to produce 5 million. Your overhead right now is sitting at a 50 % overhead. So right now you're taking 2.5. Let's say you do get a $5 million check.

 

you give me 10 taxes, it's barely over your 2.5, which you're already going to get next year. So like, yes, next year, you still have to pay taxes because you're at a 50 % overhead. So you will still get a small amount more of cash to you. But there's a lot of strategy that goes into that 2.5, pending upon what you need when you invest that, like for every million, it's about like on average, if it's in the stock market, about 35,000 right now is like a very, very, very loose number to like estimate your financial future. But I'm like,

 

you throw 2.5 into the stock market right now, we'll high five, you're making about 100K a year. Like that's just to me, those are the things that I feel you need to be really smart about to make sure that your practices are assets and not liabilities and something that really will provide the retirement for the work you've put in rather than it just feeling good in the moment, but not really giving the life you want.

 

Fred Heppner (16:59)

You know, excellent point. And what you also said earlier, just in passing was, what dentists could buy my practice. can't sell to a private dentist. I've got to sell to a DSO. ⁓ surprise, surprise. That's a myth. There are dentists who would, I can tell you right now, if you could give me your client's number, I'll buy her practice. Well, yeah, well, I mean, that's gonna, that's gonna pencil. So the, the point that I would make is know that

 

Kiera Dent (17:12)

It is a myth.

 

Right? I know, me too. I'm like, actually, actually I would.

 

Fred Heppner (17:29)

Dentists that are out there who are looking to buy really profitable practices and can meet the production goals. So there's an important aspect there. Your client's doing two and a half million in profit, five million in productivity on her own. If a person coming in to buy that won't be able to quite meet those production numbers, they may hire the client back for a year or two. The bank may want them to make sure that there's some kind of arrangement where they have some help.

 

But if a bank is looking at a practice that has that kind of liquidity and profitability, they'll gladly loan the money to the dentist if other measures are there because they know it's going to be paid back. So I want to dispel the myth that big practices with large productivity and big profitability are excluded from private practitioners being able to buy them. It's not true. Is it? Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (18:10)

Mm-hmm.

 

I agree. They get nervous because of the debt,

 

but I have somebody that I know that just bought into a $2.5 million is how much they had to bring to the table. Plus they have their student loan debt, plus they have their house debt and they were able to do it to buy into a practice. so I'm like, I think let's not assume that that's the only route. think figure out what you want and there is a buyer based on the outcome you want. I think Fred, I want to switch gears because I want to ask some questions about associates.

 

because I think we've kind of gone through like private practice. There's so many things like make sure you're taken care of, make sure you know where you're going. But now I want to switch gears because I think this is something I get asked all the time. And so selfishly again, welcome to curious therapy with Fred. I want to know all the pieces. This is my podcast that you get to be a part of. No, it's for all of you. ⁓ we get asked often, how do you set up a great associate buy-in? So like, how do I buy these people and how do I tether them in? I think one of the greatest, I would say

 

Fred Heppner (19:06)

I'm listening.

 

Kiera Dent (19:19)

stressors and like blind spots in practices and the thing that can really hurt a practice is when they have an associate that associate leaving. ⁓ And so they want to like golden handcuff these associates, but they want it to be good for both parties. What are some of those associate transitions to retain associates to get them in as partners? Is it a good idea? Is it not a good idea? And I think like we can wrap on this because I, I'm super curious of like what you recommend to help with that transition.

 

Fred Heppner (19:45)

The

 

capacity for the business volume has to be there. You've got to have, not only are you working, but there's this phantom practice out there that you can't get to as the provider. And you need somebody to be able to get to that. So bringing on an associate to get to that phantom practice immediately creates incremental income, which is, to the owner of the business, very liquid.

 

Kiera Dent (20:03)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (20:07)

The cost associated with treating extra people during the course of the day is the associate's compensation and variable cost supplies in lab. And if you're ⁓ providing can-to-can technology and your lab costs are very low, but you're producing crowns in a day, for example, and using that kind of technology, then the cost associated with treating every incremental patient and creating that revenue is very low.

 

we're suggesting that the team in place can handle the extra work. We don't have to hire an extra assistant or hire an extra administrative person. So given those things.

 

⁓ One of the best transition plans, in my opinion, is one that has time built into it. The associate has to develop some traction. They have to generate some productivity. They have to show that they can produce the numbers. But more importantly, the outcomes are good. The treatment outcomes are successful. The patients are adapting to them. The team connects with them. This is a good relationship. As an aside, really quick, when you mention relationship business in dentistry,

 

I think DSOs traditionally are a transactional business. They're really focusing on the transaction, right? Private practice focuses on the relationship. Not to say that corporate dentistry doesn't focus on relationships. They're focused more so on the transactions. I might get ridiculed for that statement, but that's what I see. And that's my opinion.

 

Kiera Dent (21:19)

I would agree.

 

Sure,

 

sure.

 

Fred Heppner (21:36)

So back to the associate, need the associate to develop some traction. And essentially that traction comes from being in the office, seeing patients, working with the team, and ultimately getting feedback along the way. And I think that's a one to two year cycle. Will you know as a practitioner and owner of the business within the first one or two months, if the associate is working two or three days a week or four days a week, will you know, do they get along with the patients? Do they get along with the team? Yes. Will you know about treatment outcomes?

 

Kiera Dent (21:40)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (22:05)

To some degree, yes. So early on, you'll know if this is cut bait, this is not going to work. Or yes, this person's fitting in great, primarily because they were vetted. So quick, quick retract back to how do you hire them? Go through a long process of vetting. Don't just take the first one that appears. Get to know them, make sure they're going to integrate well. I see a lot of associate plans.

 

work real well when the dentist knows the dentist owner knows the associate coming on board from some past experience. Great example is the dentist associate grew up in town, did an internship kind of in the office as a sterilization tech, kind of worked in the office, found out that dentistry was their passion, went to college for undergrad, went to dental school for dental degree and came back to the town to work for that dentist. Right. Okay, good. So somebody you know, ⁓

 

Kiera Dent (22:38)

Mm-hmm.

 

Totally.

 

Fred Heppner (23:00)

son of doctor, owner's best friend. So there's history there. You know, the quality of the individual. Okay. So once traction is developed during the part of that associate agreement, there's some discussion about ownership and building an understanding of how the practice works so that when time comes to be a partner and buy in, there's already some traction. There's already some traction so that if the person elects to buy the seller out,

 

in a couple years, then they can switch roles. But there has to be some traction. One of the things that's really perilous is thinking about jumping into a practice and being a partner right away. If you want to practice and you do two million a year, hygiene does 500, you do 1.5. I'm going to come in and I want to be a partner of yours today because I've heard how great your practice is. And you have the physical plant capacity, you have the patient capacity, and I can step right in.

 

If I pay you half of the value of your practice today to buy in, we can split up the medicine and supplies and drugs. can split up the equipment. We can split up the office equipment. ⁓ we can split up all the operatories, but how do we sort out the patients? Because come Monday morning, say we close tomorrow, Friday, come Monday morning, I need to have in my schedule, the ability to generate half of the revenue in the business so that I can pay myself and I can pay.

 

to having bought in. that make sense? And that doesn't really happen easily when somebody just freshly wants to buy in as a partner. So fast forwarding to partnerships, which I hope we get a chance to talk a little bit about today, that associate has to be in that process, in that business for a period of time. And that traction needs to get up so that they've got productivity under their belt. And again, going back to what we talked about about banks,

 

Kiera Dent (24:32)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

I agree.

 

Fred Heppner (24:59)

they wanna see that that productivity is there, that they'll be able to generate it because they wanna make sure that they get the loan paid for. And a really good associate agreement has, in my opinion, good restrictive covenants, not to compete, not to solicit patients or staff. ⁓ In some states, that's not allowed. The FTC voted that associate agreements or employment agreements should not have restrictive covenants, but there's no legislation yet that has actually mandated that.

 

Kiera Dent (25:05)

Totally.

 

Fred Heppner (25:26)

So keep in mind that it's probably not appropriate to think that you'll be able to limit somebody's ability to work. Now for them to essentially buy your practice, for example, and you as a, agreement have a restrictive covenant that you will agree to that's different because somebody paid you good and valuable consideration money for you not to compete against them because they bought your business in an employment agreement. It's a little different.

 

Kiera Dent (25:49)

Mm-hmm.

 

Great.

 

Fred Heppner (25:56)

So if a dentist comes and works for another dentist who owns the business, and after a couple of months, it's just not gonna work out, they're not gonna have enough connection with the patient base to solicit patients or solicit staff or the team. They won't. So would it matter if there was a restrictive covenant in that initial agreement? Probably not.

 

because after a couple months, if they've alienated patients and alienated staff and they're not very good at dentistry, you want them out of there anyway, forget about the restrictive covenant, they could go work for somebody else close by. It's probably the same thing that'll happen.

 

Kiera Dent (26:36)

I think it's really wise because I think so many offices hire an associate, but they're so scared to move them along in two months. I think that was wise advice you listed. It is so much easier to move them on in two months than it is to keep them for six months, eight months, 10 months, and then realize their dentistry or their team connection or their patient connections not there. so ⁓ it's, it's be very intentional within those first 90 days and make sure that this will be a long-term fit. ⁓ You can see it in two months.

 

Fred Heppner (27:01)

So how does this,

 

you can, I'm sure you can. How does this sound? For the first six months of an associate agreement, maybe you don't have quite a good background, deep background about that individual, but you feel that they would be good in the practice. They come recommended by their instructors at university, at dental school. was highly, someone was highly recommended. How about a single page,

 

six month agreement that says you come to work for me, I will pay you this. And if you want to go, you can go. If I feel you need to go, I'm going to release you. It's an at will agreement, no restrictive covenants, nothing in it that locks anybody down. Because again, what I mentioned earlier is how much traction can you generate really in one or two, three, four months, because you'll know after four or five months that this is somebody really want to lock in at six months, develop a really strong, well-written attorney reviewed.

 

employment agreement that has restrictive covenants that has specific on how to redo cases in case they need to be done at the end of the employment agreement. Right. What do you think? I mean, does that give that give the opportunity?

 

Kiera Dent (28:08)

Sure.

 

I think,

 

I mean, I like it. think that the devil's advocate in me would say, I'm not sure that the ⁓

 

millennial Gen Z generation coming through would say yes to six months. I think that they're looking for more security. They're looking for more guarantees. They come in with a lot more debt and a lot more risk that I am really curious. As a business, I think it's freaking brilliant. As on the other side, I'm curious, would you be able to get candidates that would want to come or is it too risky of an offer?

 

Fred Heppner (28:43)

You mean,

 

yeah, do you mean the associate dentist coming on board is thinking more about themselves rather than the practice?

 

Kiera Dent (28:52)

I think with the associate offers that are given currently, ⁓ I think agreed. It does show that they're thinking about it, but I also feel for a practice making sure that they're competitive with offers. I don't love having to be ⁓ like with hygienists. I don't want to have to go chase them, but you have to at least be competitive with other people in the market. So I think I agree with you. I just feel for practices making sure that maybe

 

Fred Heppner (29:05)

⁓

 

I understand what you're saying.

 

Kiera Dent (29:19)

you are so competitive with other people and offer. So you do get the candidates, but you can have some of these ideas within like that I think would make you even maybe more attractive. So maybe it's a year that we're offering, but like, Hey, in the first six months, there's no restriction. There's no nothing. We add that in in six months. So that way you are competitive with other people. Cause I think associates, they need that security and I'm watching more and more come through. I mean, they're walking out with one mil plus 2 million in debt. Like, so I think that

 

I think to be competitive with others, might need to be a possibly. This is my hallucination that could possibly just make sure you're competitive.

 

Fred Heppner (29:53)

Well, well, no, you're

 

so you're right on you're in a you're in another section of what the employment agreement might look like called compensation and benefits. I'm looking at just the period of time that you would be that a dentist would be employed in the practice to determine if it's a right fit for them and if it's a right fit for the practice and if it's a right fit for the patients and the team. Compensation can say exactly what you were saying. Now,

 

Kiera Dent (30:16)

Right.

 

Fred Heppner (30:22)

Unfortunately, it isn't the responsibility of the practice to provide for somebody who is unproven in their debt or to satisfy their lifestyle requirements. Yes, they're competing with other organizations that are offering salary, health insurance, vision, life insurance policies, all of those benefits that come along with big corporations. However,

 

It's a private practice. And the sooner I think that dentists who are coming on as associates know the intricacies and the difficulties of running a business and also the rewards that come with it, they would understand better how those arrangements are made. And I've seen compensation programs set up where it's the greater of over two weeks, a compensation per day or a percentage of a certain amount over a certain amount of productivity. So you can meet those requirements. can kind of meet.

 

Kiera Dent (31:15)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (31:16)

Kind of need halfway in between.

 

Kiera Dent (31:18)

Yeah, and I think that that's where I was saying of I feel like making sure that you're meeting in the middle. I love the idea of being able to protect like, you're right, like not being stuck in this with someone who's not working out and getting stuck, I think is actually something that happens all the time with associates. ⁓ And so I think like, Fred, it was such a fun like,

 

chat about us. I agree, we need to chat more partnerships because now it's like, okay, we've got these associates, we've got some ideas on it. We've heard about figuring out where we want to go and how we're going to be able to get there and needing to think about our future life and how when we need to transition, you said the three to five years, I think looking for like, what do need to do to be able to buy a practice? If I want to buy a practice, what do need to get? Then we talked about like the DSO offers coming for private practices, and how to assess that through Fred.

 

And then we moved into associates. So Fred, like that was such a like smorgasbord of topics, which I love. And I think definitely reconnecting because I think there's the next step is like, how do we bring in these associates for partners if we want them? How can we build a legacy practice? That's not necessarily just the DSO. So I'd love to get you back on the podcast and chat partnerships and like alternative transitions beyond, but gosh, Fred, such a fun podcast today.

 

Fred Heppner (32:10)

It was fun.

 

I am

 

happy to do it anytime. I appreciate what you do for dentistry. So I'll absolutely support you and be glad to do it.

 

Kiera Dent (32:36)

Thank you. Well, Fred, as we wrap up today, were there any last thoughts you had to give to the listeners? And of course, ArizonaTransitions.com, ArizonaTransitions.gmail. If you're looking to transition or associates or what do I do or hey, Fred, I just need help. But any last thoughts you have as we wrap up today?

 

Fred Heppner (32:52)

Yeah, I think

 

I tell you a funny quip that I think resonates with most people that I talk to. Dentists are excellent at curing dental disease, at diagnosing conditions and recommending treatments and working with patients to get them well. And, ⁓ coming into an event like purchasing a practice or selling a practice where they've never done it before. They don't have the experience or the education.

 

going in to understand what to do. I would encourage them to get advice and guidance from a great team. ⁓ I have a deal with my dentist. Mike Smith is brilliant. He has a practice called the biting edge here in Phoenix and he's brilliant. And he and I have an agreement. I don't do my own dentistry.

 

And he doesn't do his own practice transition stuff or practice management stuff. He relies on me to do that because they're in the middle. meet. So I want him to cure my dental conditions and make sure I'm in the optimum dental health that I could be. And I'm to make sure that I provide the services to him so that if he's looking to acquire a practice or merge an office into his, or figure out how the next plan would be for his practice growth or his transition, that he's going to sit down with me because he understands that that's my expertise and he.

 

he benefits from.

 

Kiera Dent (34:15)

Yeah, I love that. That's such a good way to look at it. Let's sit in our lanes. Let's do what we're really good at and not try to be a one-stop shop. I think that that's brilliant, Fred. And I feel like for all those looking for the transitions for what do we do? How can I do it? Reach out, Fred. I think you're a wealth of knowledge. You've been in it for a long time and just truly so grateful to have you on the podcast today.

 

Fred Heppner (34:36)

It's my pleasure. Absolutely. Have a great day. Talk to you soon. Bye here.

 

Kiera Dent (34:39)

Awesome. Thank you. And thank you,

 

Fred. Thank you, all of you. And for all of you listening, thanks for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

 

Kiera is joined by Fred Heppner of Arizona Transitions to talk through dental practice transitions. Their conversation includes when you should start thinking about your transition, what the economic outcomes will be any way you go, what a private indemnity group is (and how it can help), and more.

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Transcript

Kiera Dent (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I am so excited to welcome an incredible guest to our podcast, Fred Heppner. He's with Arizona Transitions. And honestly, I feel like right now in today's world, dentists need more than ever guidance and direction of like, what do we do? How do I transition my practice? What am I looking at for retirement? Do I go the DSO route? Do I do the legacy practice route? I just feel like there's so much confusion. And so trying to cut through that noise,

 

Fred is incredible. We met him and I just said, you know what? He's incredible. And so he said for him, it's whether a person is buying a dental practice or putting a dental practice up for sale, Fred truly can help you successfully navigate through that transition. He deals with complete transitions of dental offices and also practices securing a partner or an associate, which that is such a hard thing. Like, how do we do this? There's a million ways to slice and dice that pie because he's worked with so many different aspects of the dental industry. His experience allows him

 

to ensure that all parties are satisfied with the transition. So I'm super jazzed. Fred, welcome to the show today. How are you?

 

Fred Heppner (01:02)

I'm

 

doing great. Thank you, Kiera. I gotta meet this guy. Who is this guy, Fred?

 

Kiera Dent (01:06)

Well,

 

here he is, if I'm not mistaken. But truly, I'm so honored to have you on the podcast. When our team met you, they were like, Kiera, he's got to get on the podcast. And so just truly excited because like I said, this is a zone that I get excited to geek out on because we deal with it in consulting all the time. Our clients are constantly asking us like, what should we do? They want to bring on partners, they want to bring on associates, they want a retention model. ⁓ They want to know like,

 

I feel like your dental practice can be your greatest asset or your greatest burden, depending upon how you set it up. And so really being able to just dive in with you. And like I said, I think there's so much noise right now. The dentists are like, it's almost like ostrich in the sand. Like, I just don't want to even think about it. I'm going to put my head in the sand. I'm not going to pay attention. But the reality is like, let's educate, let's learn. Let's bring experts in like yourself. So that way dentists can feel more confident making the decision. I don't think it has to be scary. I don't think it's be daunting. We just need to be educated and.

 

Fred Heppner (01:41)

Yeah, I agree.

 

No.

 

Kiera Dent (02:05)

and hear wisdom and then do what feels right. So Fred, that was my intro, but anything else you want to add of how you got here or, mean, I'm just excited to riff with you today.

 

Fred Heppner (02:14)

I appreciate the opportunity and I can tell you even from what you just said back in, back in 1983, when I started in the business of dentistry, the interesting thing was I didn't hear very often, Hey, what's your transition plan? Because oftentimes dentists were really just going to build a practice and then that was going to be their retirement and they would sell their practice and retire. Financial planners were, were non-existent to a large degree. And it was early on that I heard somebody and it really resonated with me.

 

They asked a young dentist who had just taken ownership or started a practice, when are you going to hang up your hand piece? And the dentist kind of, I just got started. What do mean? When am going to hang it up? I got, you know, I got 20, 30 years here. No, no, no. The moment you take ownership of a business, you want to consider what your transition plan out would be early on so that it doesn't spring it on.

 

Kiera Dent (02:51)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (03:09)

We may

 

talk here later on about, what happens if you're not there? What happens if there's an injury or disability or illness and you can't practice dentistry? Now what? And let's consider talking about that maybe later on. So early in the game, it's appropriate to have some kind of idea of some kind of transition plan. Transition plan doesn't mean I have to value my business. I have to procure a buyer act to make sure that financially qualified. I have to get a contract. I have to get a lease. That's not a transition plan. In simple, think.

 

Kiera Dent (03:21)

Yeah.

 

Fred Heppner (03:38)

The transition plan is what do you want to do when you sell your practice, when you move on from dentistry? And you know, as well as I do, you have clients who have been in dentistry and practice for 25, 30, 35, 40 years. And if they stopped doing something that they've been doing for three decades, what are they going to do with their time? And that's, that's really high on the scale of importance in a transition plan, because ultimately they're going to sit back and say,

 

Kiera Dent (03:53)

Mm hmm. Yeah.

 

Fred Heppner (04:08)

I don't know that I want to be home. I don't know that my spouse wants me to be home all day. And you have to think about these things. So it's much more than I have a practice to sell. I've got a purchase price. I have to figure out how I'm going to sell everything and my staff and my patients and so on. It's more than that. So I think in the initial phases of somebody considering what's my transition plan that can pull their head out of the sand and look at a spot and say, what do I really want to do if I

 

Kiera Dent (04:12)

Totally.

 

Fred Heppner (04:37)

If I don't do this, what will I do? And then feels a whole bunch of other questions into the play. Number one, how much am I going to make from selling my practice? What are the economic outcomes? How much in proceeds will I have after all the fees associated with selling the business and the taxes associated with paying for the proceeds? Now, what have I got left? What is that? What does that number look like? Well, I have no idea. Well, I need to find out. That's why I have a business.

 

Kiera Dent (05:05)

Mm-hmm.

 

Gosh, Fred, I am so grateful you brought this up because honestly, feel like so I don't know my financial advisor teases me all the time. He's incredible. And he's like, Kiera, you are the person that has every exit strategy. You're like, all right, so what's going to happen if this happens or what happens? And I love to play this game with my husband. I'm like, okay, so if there was a fire in our house in this location, how are we going to get out? Or if we had this, because I feel like when you have almost that North star, especially in your life of

 

Okay, this is how much I want when I wanna retire. This is when I wanna retire. This is like you said, if I want to, what am I gonna do when this doesn't, like when I'm no longer doing dentistry? Because you're right, I actually, ⁓ working at Midwestern ⁓ University in Arizona, I know a lot of dental students and I know a lot of dentists now. And ⁓ I've been gone from Midwestern for about now, about nine years. And ⁓ in those nine years, which does not seem that long, it's not even been a decade, ⁓

 

Fred Heppner (05:50)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (06:05)

There have been students who have gotten a disability. There have been students who have gotten cancer and can no longer practice dentistry. There are students that have already sold to DSOs. And I'm like, their life looks so different. The student I'm thinking about who ended up getting pretty sick and had to leave, thank goodness he had his ⁓ insurance on him, his disability insurance. But like when I met him,

 

there was no way that we ever would have thought like four or five years into practice. I went and saw him in his practice and now like he's not doing dentistry anymore. And so I think Fred, it's one of those things where I help him pray every dentist who's listening gets to work until they're 80, 90, however long they want to go that they get to practice their craft. but I think what you're talking about of let's think of what would I do if I couldn't do this anymore, whether by choice or whether by life, ⁓ and then be able to make decisions because I feel like

 

When you stair step it back, you're able to actually navigate today way more confidently than if you don't have a plan. And I think that gives you more security than anything else. ⁓

 

Fred Heppner (07:08)

Amen. And if your practice

 

is stable, strong, producing a good profit and you are able to not only retire debt, but start to put away for your own retirement, you are much more in a direction of control also. So retirement may not be a year or a number. It sometimes is an event because injury, disability, illness, sudden death have no discrimination. It can happen to anybody.

 

And if there isn't a plan in place for that, which I would recommend dentists look into, ⁓ if they don't have them in their community, forming private indemnity groups, disability coverage groups, where if a group of 16, 17 dentists that per oculi are in the same community and know each other and respect each other would agree that if anything were to happen, the group would get activated and it would cover the practice a day at a time on rotation for all the membership.

 

until the practitioner returns from the injury or disability or the practice is sold because the dentist is incapacitated and can't come back. As a side note, I want to mention to you that I do this for six different groups here in the Valley in Phoenix where I live. And there are anywhere from about 12 to 22 dentists in each of those groups.

 

So if you're listeners or if anybody in the A team wants to know more about forming groups, I'm happy to pay it forward, provide it for you. It's important. It's really something that dentists, we're invincible. Nothing's going to happen to us, especially when they're 30 years old and they just graduated from Midwestern and they bought their first practice and they're fired up. And it's like, they are looking at nothing other than growth, development, coaching. They're not even thinking if something were to happen to them. So.

 

Kiera Dent (08:38)

Mm-hmm.

 

hope. Right?

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (08:57)

Just as an aside,

 

let's you and I make sure that we talk more. And for any dentists who want to develop those kinds of groups, it is invaluable. And there are tons of stories that I could impart to you and impart to anybody who's willing to listen about dentists that have a mishap. ⁓ Jim Jorgensen here in Phoenix ⁓ owns Squaw Peak Dental for years. He was in Vegas with his wife, Terry, midnight. They were up in the hotel room and he flatlined. He had a massive heart attack.

 

Kiera Dent (09:15)

Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (09:28)

She kept him going until the paramedics arrived. He survived. We activated the group. We covered his practice for three months. He came back, continued to practice. A year later, he sold it. So he couldn't have done that. He would have lost that asset and lost the value that that asset has on the open market if that group hadn't been in place. So.

 

Kiera Dent (09:39)

incredible.

 

Thank

 

I will. love that. And thank you for sharing that. And that's something I didn't even know existed. And I, I don't, I'm just very pro. Like, I remember when I was filling out our trust and I had to write my will and I was not very old, still like in my thirties, it was really weird. And it made me feel icky. And when you said the phrase earlier of like death, disability, illness, that has no discrimination. It hit me in my core of you're right. Like we do feel like we're invincible, but the reality is those three are hanging

 

out at any moment and we have no idea when they're going to strike us or our family or someone that we know. As icky as that is. And so I feel like it's like, let's just get, let's get prepared. Like when I had to figure out what's going to happen to me, if I ever am incapacitated and I called my brother, who's my power of attorney. I said, okay, this is what I want. Are you willing to do it? But now I don't like if it happens great. Like he knows, I know there's a plan in place and as much as I would hate for it to happen, there is a plan that's like, and I feel

 

Gosh, maybe I'm just a selfish egotistical human over here. It does give me a lot of empowerment to know that I know if something were to happen to me, things are good. And I will also say my whole team hates it, but I have an entire death plan of if Kiera Dent dies, I haven't made it so sweet that they want to kill me off. So like, that's my, that's my caveat. Like, let's not make it that good. But there's an entire plan because I realized...

 

If I don't have this plan in place, if things aren't able to be transferred quickly to people that I trust and that people need to execute on, this company would die and we would not be able to serve all the people that we have. And so as, as weird and as eerie as it is, I feel like Fred, there's so much empowerment that can happen because it's no longer scary. Just like getting an operations manual, just like getting all your systems in your practice in case someone leaves. I feel like it's the same thing for your business in your life. So Fred, like that's a great tip. And I think people should reach out and definitely connect with you.

 

Fred Heppner (11:42)

maybe

 

for another future podcast. Coming to an A-Team podcast near you,

 

Kiera Dent (11:44)

Like,

 

I mean, hey, I'm here for it.

 

Fred Heppner (11:50)

I don't know.

 

It's really important. People take it for granted. And it's interesting because the people that are in the groups that I have and sponsor just sitting back and say to themselves, why wouldn't anybody not be involved in this type of group? So good for future.

 

Kiera Dent (12:05)

That's helpful. Okay. All right. And Fred, just like, mean,

 

we'll, share it at the end too, but if people are interested, how do they connect with you? We'll just put it in the middle too. So people have the info and then of course we're going to continue on.

 

Fred Heppner (12:16)

ArizonaTransitions.com is my website. [email protected] is my email. Best way to reach you.

 

Kiera Dent (12:23)

And I'm sure people are

 

questioning, you work only in Arizona or do you work outside of Arizona just to clear that up for our listeners? Okay.

 

Fred Heppner (12:29)

Good. Time for a little backstory. So

 

back in 1983, when I started in dentistry, I was a, I was a business coach, similar to how you operate and develop business systems and coaching and training for dentists and their teams to grow and essentially develop profitable and enjoyable practices. I did that for about 20 years. And then about 22 years ago, I really saw a void in Phoenix where I live. moved here in 1995.

 

of the transition space. just didn't see dental practice transitions being done with integrity, in my opinion. They could have been, but I saw some of the aftermath because dentists would call me and say, hey, I just bought this practice. Can you help me? It's a mess. So I would go in and assist them. Well, slowly but surely, I saw an opportunity to be able to jump into the transitions realm. So I jumped deep into ⁓ classroom study and book work on how to do business evaluations correctly.

 

Kiera Dent (13:04)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (13:26)

the International Society of Business Analysts was my education forum. ⁓ Casey Conrad, who is brilliant, he taught me how to do business valuations correctly. And by the way, he writes the curriculum for the organizations that provide accreditation to people who want to be a business analyst. So I'm learning from the guy who teaches everybody. And then I started studying large contract negotiations.

 

Kiera Dent (13:45)

Mm-hmm. Amazing.

 

Fred Heppner (13:52)

As I developed that understanding and saw that there were things that I could contribute to, I jumped into that realm and became more of ⁓ a transition specialist here in the greater Phoenix area. Well, along the way, I came upon a group called American Dental Sales, which is a large cooperative of 40 dental practice transition specialists, 23 different companies. They cover all 50 states and they had a void in Arizona that they needed to fill. So they approached me and said, we'd like you to come on board.

 

⁓ I then met a guy named Hi Smith, who really was one of the preeminent dental practice brokers in the country. ⁓ He was in Naples, Florida. He had a place in Oregon, so he kind of commuted periodically. But Hi was very, very well regarded and still is. He's retired now. Hi was the transition specialist for the Pride Institute, a very well regarded practice management company out of California. And for 35 years.

 

Kiera Dent (14:44)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (14:50)

They referred all the business nationwide to High to develop any kind of transition plan or valuation or partnership or associate ship or practice sale. Well, he was a member of ADS and he actually, I want to say he took me under his wing to some degree because we just became very good friends and he became a really significant mentor of mine.

 

I fell ill and said, I'm not gonna be able to do this any longer, so you're gonna take over my book of business. and by the way, you're also gonna start doing seminars for the Pride Institute. And I'm gonna introduce you to the people over there so that when they need help, like I've been giving them for the last 30 years, you'll take over. So as a result, we were doing seminars all around the country. So four to five times a year, we'd be in Denver, Boston, Seattle, Orlando, Dallas, Chicago, Philadelphia, you name it.

 

Kiera Dent (15:30)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (15:43)

So people that would come to those meetings were Pride disciples, clients, and they would ask me to help them with their transition. So that became more of a establishing services for dentists that are outside of Arizona, not necessarily creating a footprint in each of those territories. The Pride Institute was purchased by Spear Practice Solutions about 10 or 12 years ago.

 

Kiera Dent (16:08)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (16:09)

So I got dragged kicking and screaming over to Spear and developed a really good relationship with the track practice growth partners at Spear and also Amy Morgan, who was the CEO at Pride out still with Spear. So that's the backstory to tell you that I've done transitions in 26 different States. And it's very easy for me to help provide consultation and guidance for transitions really anywhere.

 

Kiera Dent (16:12)

Thank

 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Awesome.

 

Fred Heppner (16:39)

Florida, as an example, Florida requires a person to be a commercial real estate broker to broker business assets. So I have colleagues in Florida that I refer to. And with my affiliation with ADS, I have boots on the ground in pretty much every territory that if I don't think I can provide value to the client, I simply connect it with the people in my group and everything gets worked right.

 

Kiera Dent (17:04)

That's awesome.

 

That's amazing. And it's such a fun story.

 

mean, I think our our paths have crossed on probably several levels. One of my business coaches is former pride. And as soon as you said that, I was like, Oh, my gosh, I bet we both know Liz. I'm sure we and all the different pieces. But I love that because I figured Arizona transitions might some of the listeners might feel like you can't help them and assist them. So I really wanted to clear that up that it's all across the nation in different areas. So all right, Fred, let's dive into like walk us through I know you've got some

 

Fred Heppner (17:11)

Yeah, chances are.

 

yeah, ⁓ yeah, absolutely.

 

Kiera Dent (17:36)

points.

 

I know you've got some things of like, what is the transition plan? Like how do doctors get to that level? What do they need to do if they're transitioning? Now again, this doesn't mean you're selling. Right now, I think there's a lot of options to sell, but also like prepping in case life, one of those three mysterious, hopefully never coming to you, like orbs is how feel. I feel like they're like floating around and hopefully they never strike. But what do we do? What are kind of the steps? What are some of the things you have for that?

 

Fred Heppner (17:56)

Yeah, yeah.

 

Well,

 

I think the first step in any kind of relationship that I build with a client, it would be a true consultation. And in that sense, it's tell me what your ideal retirement plan or transition plan would look like. You've worked your practice for a number of years. At some point in time, you're going to decide that you will retire from the practice of dentistry. What do you want to do? What does that look like?

 

What would you be involved with? I'll give you a quick example. Jerry Cox, who's a dentist in Old Scottsdale here in Phoenix, called me and said, I'd like you to help me sell my practice. And I said, I'd be honored, thank you. So I went and saw him and we put together the plan and I asked him the question, what do you want to do? What do you want to do after you retire from practice? says, well, I like to do sculpture. And I said, really, Fred?

 

Kiera Dent (18:56)

you

 

Fred Heppner (18:57)

What have you done? kind of work have you done? He says, well, let me show you. He showed me pictures of the statue of Heather Farr. Heather Farr was an amateur golfer 25, 30 years ago or so, who played at ASU, who was an enormous success, played on the LPGA tour, and ultimately ⁓ developed breast cancer and died. Heather's statue ⁓ was sitting at Karsten Golf Course down near ASU, which they've now plowed.

 

Kiera Dent (19:20)

Wow.

 

Fred Heppner (19:27)

and also at Greyhawk Golf Club. And Jerry sculpted that statue. And I got goosebumps right now. Anyway, so as an example, Jerry has a studio at his house. He said, as soon as I sell, I'm doing that. So the point is in the transition planning phase, know what you want to do. Know what you will occupy your time. If it's turn.

 

Kiera Dent (19:33)

Wow. Yeah.

 

So Fred, I'm gonna just like ask questions right here because, and

 

I'm gonna talk for myself. So guys, like this is my own therapy session. So thank you for being a part and a fly on the wall. Like sometimes we don't know. ⁓ So like I feel I'm very much, I know I wanna retire. I know I want more free time, ⁓ but I literally sit here and this, it's like, know how you think about like how time truly never ends. And if you think about like too hard, it actually creeps you out. Like that's kinda how I feel about like retiring of like,

 

Well, I know I don't want to keep working this hard. Like I don't want to be putting in as many hours, but I still love the impact. I still love the legacy, but I don't quite know what that looks like. And I feel like a lot of times people in their thirties, in their twenties, in their forties, I think as you get later on in life, you probably have more of that clear picture. But what about for those that are very fresh, like that truly maybe some people do, maybe I'm, maybe I'm the only one on my own planet. I don't think I am, but like, what do you do if you don't know what you want to do?

 

Fred Heppner (20:46)

You're not alone. So good. part of the time, what did Chelsea, what did Kelsey Grammer say? I'm listening. So the, the, the idea is that there are portions of people that don't know. There are some that are very clear on what they want to do and there's some that are kind of, well, I'm not sure. My, my recommendation would be, think about it. Then don't answer right now, but think about it because I want you to know what you will be doing when.

 

Kiera Dent (20:48)

Thank you. Thanks for my therapy today, Fred. I appreciate it. Thank you.

 

Hahaha ⁓

 

Fred Heppner (21:16)

you stop doing this and it may change over time. It may kind of morph into, my God, I didn't know that I really enjoyed painting. Okay. Then, then that's maybe what you might do because as you retire from the proceeds of your sale of your business, you'll, you'll build out a studio in your home or in the Casita or wherever it is. So it, it's okay that you may not know. It's okay that a person may not know what they want to do, but it's important to start thinking about it.

 

Kiera Dent (21:26)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (21:47)

And then we can kind of move into the rest of the, ⁓ the rest of the questions, which I would say, is it a year that you'd like to finish working? Some dentists may want to finish when they're 55. Some may want to work until they're 65. Some may want to finish working when they're 50 or it might be a number. My investment portfolio has to be at $10 million liquid, not including asset hard assets like home.

 

vacation home, cars, anything like that, boats, whatever, ⁓ but that the liquid assets have a certain number because then I know through my financial planner, because he did a wealth timeline, another side note, right, Kiera? ⁓ He said that if you keep doing what you're doing and you retire at this age and you pull in social security and you have this mandatory required distributions from your portfolio,

 

Kiera Dent (22:16)

Mm-hmm.

 

Right? Exactly.

 

Fred Heppner (22:41)

you'll be able to have this much money when you're 99. So, and that's just a mathematical spreadsheet that most good financial planners have. And I highly recommend it for anybody who's in business, who's developing a portfolio for retirement. So it may not be, I don't know yet. Okay, good. Well think about it and know that I may circle back during our relationship and ask you, have you given much thought? Do know what you're going to do?

 

Kiera Dent (22:45)

Mm-hmm.

 

Fred Heppner (23:09)

Early on, is it important? Not as much as when it's a three to five year window. When it's a three to five year window from retirement, then we want to talk more significantly about it. Because that will be a good...

 

Kiera Dent (23:23)

got it because that's what I was curious I was like should people be talking

 

when they're in their 20s 30s or is it something we're like start to think about it I know Ryan and I from Dentist advisors we we talk shop about this quite often of like there I mean there are studies that show that when you retire you actually start to atrophy in life and ⁓ there isn't as much of a purpose and so we talk often of like how can we continue that

 

mental stamina, the things that are going to fulfill us, whether it's working or something else of philanthropy, like whatever is going to keep you going as a human, whether you're working in the chair or you're not, I think is important. So that's I was curious of like, really probably connecting with you three to five years before we think we might retire, but with the caveat of, hey, if something were to happen to me, what would kind of be my exit strategy? your like death list like I do, like if I die, this is what's going to happen. It's creepy, but it's awesome.

 

Fred Heppner (24:15)

No, it's, it's creepy and it is awesome. And at the same time, it's a really good conversation to have because if we're three to five years out, then one of the first things to do is say, okay, so what's going to happen if you're not here? And that carries on to the discussion we had earlier.

 

Kiera Dent (24:28)

Mm-hmm.

 

The Dental A Team (24:31)

Awesome. Thank you. And thank you, Fred. Thank you, all of you. And for all of you listening, thanks for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

 

Tiff and Kristy talk about how to reach an ideal state: three-day work weeks and clearing that seven-figure mark. Their advice includes block scheduling, mining your patient base, aligning your team, and more.

Episode resources:

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Transcript

Tiffanie (00:01)

Hello Dental A team. I am back here today with Kristy. I am so excited to be here, Kristy. And for those of you who maybe this is your first podcast with us, my name is Tiffanie and I am a dental consultant here with the Dental A Team. And as Kara said, we're taking over the podcast. So I've got Kristy, one of our other amazing and just beautifully minded and just sweetest ever.

 

consultants. Kristy, you are just one of the most amazing human beings I've ever met and I'm just so excited to have you here on the podcast with us as well as on our team. So happy Friday. It's Friday here for us and we are we've got a couple podcasts we're going through today, Kristy. I'm really excited for this one. But before we get started, how are you today?

 

Kristy (00:47)

doing wonderful. The weather's great and I'm here with you. It's equally ⁓ mutual feelings to be here with you and podcast for our people. So love it.

 

Tiffanie (00:59)

Amazing. Thank you. I'm glad you're having good weather. It's hot here. So be prepared for that. I know you're coming to Arizona soon. So it's very hot here right now and it should cool down a little bit next week while you're here though. So you should be fine. Maybe bring some of that nice weather with you. So today you guys, really want to chat. There's a few things I want to chat about and today on this podcast, I wanted to chat through

 

really making your life whatever it is that you want that to look like. And a lot of the doctors that we work with want to obviously cut down clinical hours. I think that's something that's on everyone's radar is really being able to.

 

Work the days of the week that you want to in the practice and then investing that additional time back into your family and into your personal life, your friends, all of those spaces that you would normally spend that time, whatever that looks like for you. And Kristy, we've talked about this a lot and I actually, have one plan I can think of off the top of my head right now that we have worked really hard to get his schedule and his intentionalities exactly what we're talking about today. And what he does so that everybody can hear is he works about three and a half

 

days per week and definitely definitely clears over seven figures and so what I wanted to talk about today is really how do we get to that three day per week clinical time and that seven figure mark that you know we're dentists here like you guys should be you guys should be making that if that's what you want to make you should be making that and how do we make that happen as a reality and when I first started working with this practice years and years ago he was like gosh I think you know Tiff

 

long-term, like within five years, this is what I want to be making, but I think I'm gonna have to add a fourth day a week. I'm gonna have to work Monday through Thursday. And I was like, well, maybe, but I mean, do you want to work Monday through Thursday? And at the time he said, I maybe by the time I get there, I do right now, I don't. Great, well, if you change your mind, then we can add it, but let's build this without that fourth day.

 

And he along the way decided, you know what, actually want to do two Thursdays a month because it fits, it just fits with his lifestyle, fits with what he wanted to do. So it turned into, you know, average of three and a half days per week. But he stuck to the idea of creating his practice to look like what he wanted it to look like. And I remember Kristy early on and still to this day sometimes that happens, but I remember early on him really acknowledging the fact

 

that this was what he wanted for himself, for his family. This is what he, you know, was active in his community and within his church. And he wanted this to be a reality for him. His opposing side, what was happening there, was that he was on a lot of dental forums with a lot of classmates and people he'd met at CE courses or wherever along the way. And he was really, really getting wrapped up in the numbers of it all and what...

 

what they're doing and having a bigger practice and adding operatories and adding an associate and five hygienists and he was thinking, gosh, to get where I want to go, all of these doctors feel like they've made it, you know, and do I then is that what I need to do to make it? And I think all of us do this, whatever position we hold, think even as like a mom, right? It's like just that compares the night as we look at other people.

 

other moms and we're like, how come I don't do that or should I be doing that or etc. And it's got to be so hard to live that way. Right. And really, really, what we had to do was we had to take a step back and think about what is the most important thing for you right now? What do you want your life to look like again? Right. And what does that mean in your life if you're posting?

 

And we had to create all of those spaces from a feeling standpoint and then implement them. So my story, that practice, know, it just pops into my head. He's the one that pops in my head when I think three days, seven figures. And he's just come such a long way and it's had its trials and its tribulations, but I really wanted to take a step back and look at what did we do? How did we create that for our clients?

 

and how do we help someone to get to that point? And Kristy, I know you've worked with a lot of practices as well, and you've helped dentists do the same thing. So I wanted to take them through some of those processes today and the build out of those goals with the intentionality behind it. Kristy, I know you...

 

work with a ton of practices and I know you've done this a million times and if I were to come to you and say, gosh, I have this dentist who wants to work three days a week, this is the amount of money that he or she wants to make, take home, the profit. What would be the first space you would, you would coach on? Where would you say, let's start here?

 

Kristy (06:04)

Yeah, I love that you're speaking that because again, we can make those goals. We just got to clearly define them. And to your point, I would definitely start with scheduling it, right? If that's what we need to make, let's reverse engineer it and block schedules so that we ensure that's happening. The other part that I would add in there is it's kind of funny that you're saying like three and a half days a week because ⁓

 

What we tend to see is when we do add those block schedule and doctors hit that three, three and a half days a week, they tend to be more profitable during the time that they're there rather than working five days a week. So yeah, most definitely I would start with number one, looking at that goal and then reverse engineering it into the schedule using their scheduling blocks.

 

Tiffanie (06:55)

For sure. I love what you said

 

there because it makes me think of, always tell my son like, gosh, you would take and I would too, right? If I gave you an hour in the morning to get ready, you would take the hour and be rushed.

 

But if I give you 30 minutes in the morning to get ready, you're gonna be ready at 28 minutes. Like you're gonna get it all in, you're still gonna get it done, you're just always gonna utilize the amount of time that you have. So what you said there is I do agree, I do see a lot of doctors that will work.

 

less clinical than other doctors and their intentionality behind getting the production in there, especially when there's a really good why behind it is so high that they work harder to get that production there and to maintain it. And so they actually do become a lot of times more profitable than doctors who are working maybe five days a week because their production is getting spread out, especially on the scheduling side for a team. They're like, well, I got to have something on Friday. We got it. We've got to be here. So

 

I'm gonna put this crown on Friday, whereas if we were only Monday through Wednesday, it would probably get stuck on Wednesday this week rather than Friday and giving so much availability to the patient. So I totally agree. And you're spot on with the goals. So that's exactly what we did. We said, okay, well, if you wanna make this much money, take home, what does that look like fixed cost-wise, overhead-wise? So we had to build out what that goal meant.

 

how we could get the practice to be profitable enough to make that much money as take home and then reverse engineer that. So we had to say, what does that look like? All the multiplication, the addition, all of those pieces. What does that look like in a production goal?

 

so that 98 % or higher of collections gets you to that profitability. Then you have to backtrack and say, well, great, this is how much money I need to make this year, maybe a million dollars, right? We wanna break one million this year. How do I do that? What does that look like per month in production?

 

Then we say, okay, divide that by how many days per month we're working. So if we're working three days, right, it was probably about 12 days on average. So what does that look like every day? And how much production does that equate to? And I do have to say a caveat here.

 

because I think it's easy to say, yeah, but what about the fee schedules? Totally agree with you. You need to get your fee schedules up. Number one, if you can do anything about your fee schedules, go work on those. First and foremost, number one, get those things in line. But I do have to say this dentist I'm thinking of specifically is in the heart of a very saturated state and a very

 

difficult area to get ⁓ fees increased and he is PPO driven in lot of different directions. So it is possible. It just depends on what you're willing to do and then also what treatment you're doing. So what we have done with that is we've built out that block schedule. We've built out how his optimized days would look. So when is he doing his crown preps? When is he doing his large treatment? ⁓ Is he doing root canal?

 

love them. So which root canals is he doing if he's going to do them? Oral surgery, like what are we doing in those three days? And how do we build the production to match that daily goal? And then it was a, there, are there things that you want to be doing that maybe you're not doing a lot of yet? And he, this specific dentist, I've got another doctor, I've got a couple doctors that are like, yeah.

 

Tiff, I want to do implants and I want to do cosmetic cases. I want to build smiles and do smile design. And I'm like, well, great. If you can get one or two smile designs a month, are you kidding me? We're halfway there. So then what we had to do is we said, OK, great. Where would we do those in the schedule? When they come, where would we put them? And build that out as well. So the implant.

 

Obviously the implant placements like those were going to go first. Where are those going to be and how many implants do we need per year to help equate to that goal? then Kristy, I know you've done this a few times as well, looking at the marketing space, right? Because what do you feel like Kristy then?

 

We've got this goal set, we've got this block scheduling in place and we're like, okay, great. We want to do more implants and more cosmetic cases. Kristy, what would you then look for to increase those within the practice?

 

Kristy (11:38)

Yeah, well number one, I always like to go mining in our own patient base, you know, and I love that you mentioned like the service mix and doctors wanting to do specifically in this case, the implants, because it's funny how many times we hear that and then we go back and look like at the last 12 months and maybe they've done five implants, you know, I love doing them, but why aren't we doing them, right? And so just by recognizing that, putting a goal to it and then

 

Tiffanie (12:01)

Yeah.

 

Kristy (12:08)

consistently going back and measuring that. We've talked about this before Tiff, if I'm gonna go buy a white car of a specific brand, all of a sudden I start seeing all those. So to your point, I would go back to our patient base. I would definitely make sure the team is aware of that goal and then enroll the whole team on how do we find more of these patients that could use implants, right?

 

Then amongst our own patients when they're coming in, do they have missing teeth? Did we do a recent extraction, right? Have we discussed this before and it's time to bring it back up? So ideally that's where I would go because they're already in your practice, they love you, you've got a relationship with them and you'll be amazed at how many patients you'll find just by putting it front of mind and enrolling the whole team behind you to look for it.

 

Tiffanie (13:06)

I agree

 

and training them on the right questions, the right scenarios. Like what are we looking for? Are we looking for missing teeth? Are we looking for cracks? we like bringing that awareness? I totally agree. think everything we want is actually already here. We're just not tuned in to see it. So just like the car, we want the white Camaro because we never see a white Camaro. We make that decision to like, that's what I'm going to get. I'm going to get a white Camaro because no one has them, right? Or a purple Camaro because no one has them. And this

 

Kristy (13:35)

Thank

 

Tiffanie (13:36)

the next thing you know, you're like, well, shoot, I was wrong. There's a million of them. I want something different. And you're just going to keep going on that road because you brought the awareness to you. So I love that analogy. And I think it's so fitting for any, any treatment that you're trying to increase in your practice. It's already there. We're just not attuned to looking for it yet. So there's already opportunities there. How do we get the team members?

 

Kristy (13:41)

Thank

 

Tiffanie (14:04)

in line with seeing them to support you in the diagnosis. Now, the biggest thing I can say right now is if you have this goal or a different goal, I don't care what your goal is, if your goal is to work three days and make seven figures, that's fine. ⁓ Whatever your goal is, enlist your team in the support factor of achieving that goal.

 

because without them, it's all on you and there's no way, doctors, that you can do it all. You cannot, you will not remember.

 

all of these spaces to look for the implants, especially if you're like, well Tiff, gosh, Kristy, I want to do implants, I want to do cosmetic cases, I want to try all on fours, I want to, you know, I want to reduce the number of root canals I'm doing, but I want to do more extractions, like gosh, dang it, there's 16,000 different things that you could want to do that are top of mind on your brain, but what is the decision of today? What is our focus?

 

How are we gonna measure it and how are we gonna stay consistent? I've had multiple dentists ⁓ wanna add more implants and Kristy, I love how you said to go back through the inventory, because it's exactly where we started. Many, dentists have done this very successfully. I know with me, with you Kristy, with all of us and on their own, really looking at how many did I do? How many have I done? Because sometimes, right, we'll think,

 

you get your hair cut and you're like

 

10 people tell you, gosh, your hair looks amazing, right? And the one person is like, I don't know if I would have done bangs. Like that was a bold move, right? And the next thing you know, you're in the mirror going like, gosh, dang it, should I have done bangs? Because one person out of 11 said that, and that's what you remember. And so when it comes to this, think the same philosophy applies because you might think, gosh, I've done a million and you did two. Or you're like, I didn't do any. And you're like, oh my gosh, I did 16. How is that possible?

 

Kristy (15:40)

Yeah.

 

Tiffanie (16:04)

we weren't looking at it. And if you've done whatever number you've done, how do we increase and layer on top of that? Because if you could find five last year...

 

I guarantee there's probably 15 more that we either diagnosed and didn't get acceptance on, or we just didn't see. So Kristy, to your point, really adding that in to even your morning discussions of looking at the patients and saying, who's eligible for whatever treatment it is that you're focusing on? Do we have patients coming in today that are actually eligible for that treatment? Do we have patients that we've already diagnosed this on? Can we ask, why aren't we scheduled? What's holding us back from getting this treatment done? Why not today?

 

Where can we find those opportunities within the patient base we already have? And then dialing in your messaging to the community. Because you've got to start making sure that you're attracting the patients that are going to build your business to meet the goals that you want. We cannot.

 

Just like we can't make everybody happy, we cannot serve everyone in the dental community. You are built to serve the community that fits your desired outcome. So if you try to blanket, serve everyone, you're gonna get a crazy mixed bag and you're probably gonna be really stressed out. But if you commit to serving the people that fit your avatar and who you are,

 

you're going to be able to reach these goals really easily. So dial that in with your marketing company or your marketing gal at the practice, whatever that looks like, dial that in. I know I've had a couple of practices, Kristy, that have struggled with new patients or they've had a flood of new patients. And when we look at it, they've had a flood of new patients, but struggling to meet production goals. And I'm like, well, one, maybe we have too many new patients or two, what kind of new patients are you getting? And I've had

 

all kinds of scenarios, but one that comes up a lot is too many limited exams, and we're focusing on same day treatment or like quick turnaround and not converting to comps, which it's technically a new patient into the practice, so count it how you want to. But when we've got, I don't know, 40 new patients and 25 of them are limited exams, 15 are only new, we're gonna struggle. So, Kristy.

 

We've got a lot here ⁓ going on all kinds of different tangents here and we still have one more point that I wanted to get to, but let's recap. So we've got.

 

Kristy (18:29)

Bye.

 

Tiffanie (18:36)

building out the goal, reverse engineering that and making sure we've got block scheduling in place, which we're not going to clearly do like a huge block scheduling podcast today, but there are a million and you can email us [email protected] for tips and tools as well. And then dialing in that marketing space to make sure we're getting the patients that we want internally marketing to our patients, making sure that we're speaking to them and then externally marketing to the patients that we want as well. And then Kristy this is a space, this next one that I'm going to

 

you to get to. This is a space I think you do really well with teams, so getting to the seven figures production is one space of it, the right patients, that's just one space of it. But we can produce all we want and if the money's not coming in you're not, you're just...

 

upside down and you guys are just tired. So Kristy, I can talk, we can both talk production for freaking days and marketing for days, but what do they need to do on the flip side of that and what support, again, from their team members do they need to make sure they have in order to reach this goal?

 

Kristy (19:39)

Yeah, absolutely. I always like to say, number one, let's start with ⁓ what is our parameters for the office? Your team members that are presenting finances, they need to have the understanding, what can they do? What are the tools in their tool belt ⁓ to offer to patients? And then it really is about getting creative. Even if the office is wanting everything paid in full on the day of service,

 

You know, are we letting patients walk out the door just because they can't pay it all at one time? You know, we could get creative and potentially even do like a layaway process, right? Or if these are big treatment plans, you know, do we have the right third party financing? There's specific finance companies that do larger amounts. And so getting to, you know, when we're presenting financials,

 

Tiffanie (20:28)

Yeah.

 

Kristy (20:37)

understanding truly what are the parameters, setting the realistic expectations within the office of what is our goal for finances. We want 98 % as a minimum goal for collections. So ideally we're meeting that. then also just making sure we have means for people to say yes financially, if you will.

 

Tiffanie (21:05)

Yeah, yeah, and I love the way that you go through that with your clients on getting that yes and getting the financial options dialed in because it is different for each doctor in a lot of ways. And in addition to that, making sure we have that follow up process. So if we can have the tools to treatment plan correctly, collect

 

in advance or on the day of treatment over the counter correctly, fantastic. And then on the flip side of that, we've got to have the systems in place for insurance claims follow ups. And then if there's anything outstanding after insurance for patients, how are we gonna get that money? How are they gonna pay? And what are our options for that? Because just like you said now, Kristy, making sure we have those options for treatment planning and case acceptance. Well, what do they do? What are their options if they have a bill?

 

leftover, is it the same? Like what does the team do with that? So I agree having those protocols written and having them dialed in and trained is massive. So thank you. That is a space I think you really thrive and I've watched you train, I've watched you train doctors on how to do collections. So I think that's impressive in itself. So I want to make sure you, you got all that out there. Thank you. So recapping, we've got

 

Making sure you guys know what it is that you want first and foremost. Know what it is that you want. Reverse engineer from there on how you're gonna get there. So build the financials out and then also build that block scheduling in there you guys. We harp on block scheduling and we're not the only consulting company that works with block scheduling and there's a reason for that because it freaking works. I just got off a call with the doctor an hour ago that was celebrating a 6 % decrease in overhead for quarter one because

 

is working, collecting is working, the protocols that they put into place and she specifically said the block scheduling is working. So this is within an hour of us recording this, go do it. And then making sure that your marketing is working internally and externally, you're attracting the patients that you want into your schedule and getting those collections processes in place you guys. If you don't have them, if you need help with any of this, you know to reach out, that's what we are here for.

 

We love giving information out. That's why we have all of these podcasts. I don't even know how many we have anymore. There's just a slew of them. whatever it is you need, just go to TheDentalATeam.com and search in the podcast tool bar and it will be there.

 

Kristy, parting words. I love, I know I shocked you with this, you're going to be shocked anymore, but I love your parting words always. So if you could wrap today's podcast into a bundle and impart some wisdom on these doctors that are listening, what would it be?

 

Kristy (23:48)

Yeah, I would say number one, track and measure, right? If that's your goal to do more of that, let's get more of it. Track and measure. When you have cases closed, really take a look at what did we do? Like how can we repeat what happened? Your conversations, everything, you know? And then when you are treatment planning implants, because we were talking about implants, say, and you have patients that leave and don't schedule.

 

Make sure your admin team or treatment coordinator, whoever is presenting that treatment, writes down what was the patient's words, what were their objections, because that's where our opportunity lies. And a lot of people automatically think it's a financial thing. And sometimes it's not financial. Sometimes it could be from the clinical side, how can we get better at presenting that treatment, expressing the benefits and

 

Tiffanie (24:34)

Thank you.

 

Kristy (24:43)

of doing the treatment, consequences of not having an implant, right? And add an expense if we don't do it. with that, really dial into those opportunities, celebrate your success, and then where the opportunity lies, we can certainly help bridge that gap for you. So, yeah.

 

Tiffanie (25:02)

I love that. Thank you.

 

Alright guys, you heard it from us here today. Go get to work, go build out those goals, go figure out what that looks like for you and for your lifestyle, what you want. And as always, drop us a five star review below so we know that this was helpful and beneficial for you and so that others can find it. [email protected] is an easy way to find us or TheDentalATeam.com are all kinds of different avenues to chat with us. So if you need anything, when you need anything, and when you're ready to take that next step forward on creating this in your own

 

life, reach out, we're here to help you and we'll catch you next time.

 

Kiera and Kristy discuss ways your practice can completely “drain the lemon” of juice (aka, financial opportunity) without becoming completely overwhelmed. This happens by identifying a goal and reverse engineering it. Kiera and Kristy give numerous examples of how this works, as well as other opportunities for hidden value in your practice.

Episode resources:

Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast

Schedule a Practice Assessment

Leave us a review

Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is such a special day. I hope you guys are having the best day because I'm having a great day because today I'm podcasting with our one and only Kristy Treasure, one of our incredible consultants. And I am so excited to have Kristy with us. Kristy, how are you doing today?

 

Kristy (00:17)

Gosh, it's fantastic. The first day is spring and we're gonna bring some new life to clients here. Add potential clients, right?

 

Kiera Dent (00:24)

I agree. I completely

 

agree with you, Kristy And honestly, if you guys have not met Kristy, Kristy is incredible. She's been on our team. Kristy, feel is just like the queen of wanting to have these amazing practices, just hit great numbers. Kristy loves numbers. She loves to dig in. And Kristy has this like very delicate leadership style. Like I watch you and I see you just transform practices. You gain their trust, you build their trust, you help team members.

 

I mean, offices who've said, Kiera I only want to work with you, are working with Kristy and loving her. And so it's just really fun, Kristy, to have someone who just is so passionate about dentistry. And I'm just so happy to have you on the podcast with me today. So that's a little intro to Kristy. If you haven't met her, haven't heard from her, you definitely need to. So Kristy, love having you on our team. It's always a treasure.

 

Kristy (01:11)

Thank you. I love being here. It's a great culture and you know what? We just have fun serving clients and that's what it's about.

 

Kiera Dent (01:19)

We totally do. And so Kristy, I want to join the podcast today because I feel I've been watching you consult some clients and I've been seeing it's fun in our morning huddle. Don't worry guys, in Dental Team we have a morning huddle. You can tell I used to be a dental assistant, team member, that's what I do. And so Kristy, we always share client wins and it's really fun because then we can share from consultants like, hey, what are you doing really well? What things are we doing well?

 

And Kristy, I've been watching, she's been posting up some really fun changes that she's been able to do with practices, so much so that offices who have never been able to hit certain dollar amounts in their production, things that they never believed were possible, getting overheads like, Kristy is burning and churning and doing it, it's like, Kristy, you come in with this like delicate wave of authority and it's just beautiful. And so I kind of wanted to talk, not necessarily specific to these practices.

 

But I mean, offices who have never had 100 grand, Kristy's been able to help them. Offices who have never been profitable, she's been able to help them. Offices who feel like they can't get their leadership team on board, Kristy's getting them. People who say like, we'll never be able to make an operations manual. I'm watching and Kristy you're just like getting these offices to navigate along. And so I thought today would be really fun for us to talk about maybe what are some of the tips or tricks. Again, not necessarily specific to these practices, but things you see overarching that really work to add.

 

production to a practice or get a team bought into it. So let's start first. mean, everybody always wants to geek out on numbers. So Kristy, what are some of the things that you've found are just really successful? I mean, you're an office manager of a very, very, very successful practice. You've consulted lots and lots and lots of practices even before coming to Dental A Team. You've got some history with you. So Kristy, let's kind of share some Kristy magic of what are some of the things you've seen that really help impact numbers in a practice quickly and easily with a whole team bought into that.

 

Kristy (03:06)

Yeah, would say first off and foremost, like obviously picking maybe the top five metrics to start working on and every doctor in office talks about production and collection. And so starting with some of the basics that they already understand, but also like.

 

Figuring out that point, what are we working for? Not just in a five year or 10 year range. I mean, you talk about that all the time, but also what are we looking for this year? And then reverse engineering it. Because if we don't have a point to guide to,

 

It's just numbers and even when we're talking percentages, we can have 100 % of collections, but is it enough to pay the bills? Is it enough to do the goals that we're reaching for as a team? So definitely it's about starting where they're at and then letting them see something bigger, if you will.

 

Kiera Dent (04:07)

And Kristy,

 

I think it's such a good thing because like when teams just feel like they're only about today, right? Like it's like, here's my daily bread today, but we don't understand the bigger picture. This is oftentimes when offices get fresher and they're like, my team isn't even looking down the line. They're not taking the ownership. They're not doing any of these things. So Kristy, how do you get a team to look further down the line and not feel the overwhelm, not feel like, cause you know, you come in and start to change. How do you have some tips to navigate with team members who maybe aren't as pro?

 

Getting into it.

 

Kristy (04:38)

Yeah, I would say number one, I mean, we're starting out the year, we're ending first quarter. And so to think, ⁓ I want to hit a million dollars by the end of the year. That's such a big overwhelming number that we literally break it down. We can project out where are they currently, you know,

 

Where are their numbers currently projected to hit at the end of the year? And then reverse engineer that. Guys, my gosh, we're only $1,000 short a week. How could we go find $1,000?

 

right? And do what we do. It's all in the name of getting our patients healthy. you know, let breaking it down to that simple step and letting them achieve something daily, if not weekly, and showing them it's easy. And it all relates back to our why. Why did we get into dentistry? You know, it's to serve and get our patients healthy. So when we do that, and we know where we're headed, it's really easy to achieve.

 

and then just start building in the goals from there.

 

Kiera Dent (05:46)

Mm-hmm, I agree

 

with you because I think in dentistry is so fun I mean a million seems so hard, but let's break it down like if we really want to do I mean Let's just do some fun math here. So we're gonna do a million. All right, so some offices. They're like, I've never hit a million Let's figure out a million. I think these are fun. Kristi and I do love numbers So I hope you do and if you don't I hope you take on our mantra of like I love numbers and numbers Love me. I want the numbers to love me. So let's enjoy that. So if we have a million we divide it by 12, okay

 

And this is just really rough math. There's more sophisticated ways to project this. That's 83,000 per month. Let's bump it up to 84 because it's 83,333. So let's just do 84,000. So if we're at 84,000 and then we know, let's say you're a practice that is only working four days a week, that's fine. You do not need to work five days. You don't need to work six days. Let's just do a four day work week. Cause I like to prove to people and Kristy, I know you do too. We don't have to work harder. Let's just work a little smarter.

 

So with that, let's say it's 16 days a month. Does that make sense? You got four days a week. Most months are four weeks. I get that there's a few more, which is why this is very loose. Don't worry if you do this, you'll slush in the right direction. So what that brings it down to is 52.50 per day. Now let's say in this practice that they have two hygienists. Usually a hygienist is producing about a thousand-ish rough numbers. That's 32.50 per day for an office. And so I think Kristy agreed with you.

 

When we look at that and we're like, all right, if we're only scheduled to 2,700 today, where can we go find that extra $600 or $500? And it's not saying we're over diagnosing patients. What we're doing is we're looking to see, could we add in some fluoride? Could we add in that FMX? How can we do better patient care? Oh my gosh, that patient only wanted to do one filling, but they're about to get numb. And that quad of filling seems a lot more enticing because they're about to get numb. It's crazy how like, you know, when I talk to patients and they say, oh,

 

I think I just want to this one filling. And then when they're about to get numb, it's like, Hey, we can actually do the whole quad. And they're like, yeah, we should actually do that. It's wild. That injection, you guys never, ever, ever, ever underestimate the power of an injection. ⁓ but the reality is this is how you can look for it. This is how it becomes fun. And I think helping teams and Kristy, do an amazing job with this, helping teams have fun with this. That's the whole point of a morning huddle. We go to morning huddle to huddle. How do we win the game? Just like a huddle in basketball or huddle in football.

 

How do we actually win the game? Where are we at? What's that extra five? I mean, I have been shocked when offices will implement pro, ⁓ fluoride, or they'll look for FMXs. We're like doing our x-rays on normal cadences, or we're even doing our comp exams. That will add up so fast for you. Adding a sealant, adding in quad dentistry rather than single tooth dentistry. You can find these things so easily. And so, Kristy, I think you do a beautiful job of that with your practices. And I'm just curious, like,

 

But what happens when you have that one team member in the back who's just like not having it? What do we do with them and how do you get those team members on board?

 

Kristy (08:46)

Yeah, number one, most team members want something more for themselves, right? Whether it's a yearly raise or I don't know, maybe the office doesn't offer insurance and they want to offer insurance. And I'm like, well, let's find a way to offer it. You know, let's figure out how much it is. What does it cost? What do we have to do to show the doctor we can earn our way to doing it? So showing them that they can also achieve what they want. mean, honestly, today I had a

 

a team that was talking about taking time off between Christmas and New Year and possibly paying the team for that time off and surprising them. And I'm like, well, let's reverse engineer it, find out what do we have to do to pay for that. And then we can surprise that gift ahead of time because we can measure if we're on target for it. And...

 

give them that, gift them that time off if you will, but just again showing team what's in it for them and relating it again back to their why they got into dentistry which was to take great care of people.

 

And when you do it, we all reap the rewards. And I love that you said morning huddle because nine times out of 10, we have that treatment in our schedules already. And it's just having conversations with patients in a relationship fashion.

 

Many people think you have to have more new patients, right? We don't need more new patients. They're in our schedule and we have the opportunity to just do more on the patients we have. And if you don't believe me, have them run their unscheduled treatment report.

 

Kiera Dent (10:31)

Amen to you, Kristy. And I agree with you tenfold. And that's why we consult so well together. And I really love that you said like, let's show them, let's gift them, let's figure out what our team wants. And that's what's actually so fun. Like this is why I love numbers. I hated numbers because I didn't understand them. But when you realize that numbers can just be the way to get whatever you want in life. Like it's just truly this really, really fun, dreamy, like you said, if they want to take time off between Christmas and New Year's,

 

Fantastic, let's figure out what that production would be. Let's figure out the cost of paying all the team members. It's very simple, it's not a hard equation to do. Then let's add that amount, divide it amongst the rest of the months of the year. You can literally pay for it. So offices who wanna go on trips, offices who wanna add in bonuses, offices who wanna pay for scrubs, like you name it, all these things can be paid for. And for people listening, this isn't too overdiagnosed on the patients. It's not like we're going hunting because we're like, we wanna go on that trip.

 

it's we are looking for the best patient care like Kristy said. We are looking for the little opportunities that we're not doing. And every practice is like, no, we're doing all this already. Yeah, right. I promise you, I've yet to see one office who has done every single thing perfectly 110%. And so I think like, let's drop that ego as well and look to see where it can be. And Kristy, I love that you bring it. As you were talking, I'm like, Kristy to me feels like the analogy of like squeezing the juice out of the lemon or squeezing the tube of toothpaste.

 

And Kristy is the gal who looks at your practice and you're like, my tube of toothpaste is empty. And she's like, yeah, let me show you. got like three more months where the toothpaste in this tube, like we are squeezing it rather than just going and looking to buy a brand new tube of toothpaste. And within your practice, there's so much more opportunity to like squeeze the juice, squeeze the opportunities rather than having to look outside. Yes, we still need to work on the outside pieces too, but then when we look inside, and I think that this is where you do such a great job, Kristy like.

 

Kristy (12:04)

Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (12:25)

I tell you, Kristy can turn to practice so quickly. It's been magic to watch you, Kristy I'm like, this girl comes in and she just like hangs out. She's working with the team. She's tracking the numbers and la la la la la. The doctor's like, oh my gosh, we hit this and I didn't even know that was possible. But Kristy's squeezing juice. You're looking for the juice constantly. And so I'm just curious, other squeeze the juice, squeeze the tube of toothpaste? You said like new patients, you're looking for unscheduled treatment plans.

 

Kristy (12:30)

you

 

Kiera Dent (12:53)

We don't need the new patients. We're looking for just little, what are some of those other opportunities, Kristy, that like I spy with my little consultant eye, what do you see in there?

 

Kristy (13:02)

Yeah.

 

Obviously there's a few areas, but one of the things too when we have limited coming in how many of those do we work to convert? I mean how many times do we schedule them for a half hour appointment when really if we just schedule them for an hour and trained up our assistants to have a conversation on the front end my gosh, if we could avoid future emergencies like this while you're here We could take a look at everything come up with a plan and still treat that tooth that's bothering you right so and if they're swollen

 

or in pain, at least scheduling them back to make sure, hey, you know, we could avoid future emergencies like this. Let's get you back and take a look at everything, but get you out of pain today. that's one area. And again, it's just taking and using what's already there and doing what's best for the patient, right? I mean, people only lose their teeth for a few reasons. Trauma.

 

Kiera Dent (13:53)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kristy (13:59)

Extensive decay, you know, so if we can avoid that just like you said the power of the shot if we could avoid Future damage and more cost wouldn't you agree we should take care of it today?

 

Kiera Dent (14:06)

Hahaha!

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Also, did

 

you hear what Kristy said? Wouldn't you agree? And that's a very like amazing line to take into your practice if you're not using that right now. I love the LOEs being converted into a comp exam. It is one of the most incredible things that if a practice will take this on. And so we were like, but Kiera, Kristy, they're just coming in for pain. Like they're not gonna like it. Yeah, right. A, you have to remember no one wants to come to see you. And I'm sorry, dentist, but this is the reality. And there's like 1 % of the population who's a little bit odd and they actually love to come.

 

But that's like truth. And so they don't wanna come anyway. They're already in pain. So let's do them a service. Let's do them a favor. Let's take pictures of their entire mouth, AKA x-rays. Let's do a full comp exam. Yes, we're gonna take care of that problem tooth. Absolutely, 100 % we're gonna do that. But odds are, and every doctor and every team member knows this, if I've got one tooth that's looking pretty wild, odds are there's probably a few other places in that mouth that are going to have the same problem come upon them pretty soon. But I think it's also,

 

training the front office to say this, training the clinical team on how we present this and how we can do this, but also realizing this is a huge service and benefit to a patient. No patient wants to come back. They really do not. As much as they love you and as fun as you are and as great as your coffee bar is and as fun as your movies are, being at the dentist, even for me, I had to go to the dentist and I was like, gosh, really? Like this place. And I work with dentists. Like I've been a dental assistant. People just don't enjoy having their

 

someone awkwardly put their hands in your mouth. It's weird. It's a weird thing that we do and yet we love it. So Kristy, I love that. What are some other ideas that you have around? Because yes, convert the limited to comps. Any other things that you have around? And again, I don't want you to give all away your Kristy Sparkle. So like what's one or two more that you have of like being able to squeeze that juice, squeeze that tube of toothpaste?

 

Kristy (15:59)

Well, I would say many times, especially for the dentist coming in or newly starting out having firm financial arrangements, know, and it's not firm doesn't mean strict necessarily, but it's it's comprehensive finances. You know, it's it's finding a plan to get all their treatment done. Even if you're phasing it out over time, but I would say really there's usually that low hanging fruit in AR or insurance that we can

 

just put in simple systems that go after that and stop it bleeding into, you know, aging out, if you will. So many times that's an area to start and just look at what our processes are. How are we collecting? Are we getting the good estimates to get the correct amount collected over the counter?

 

Kiera Dent (16:52)

Okay, so

 

in that, agree with you, Kristy, because a lot of times people are like, we need to make more. And I'm like, you don't even need to make more. It's just hanging out in your AR. Like you've already done the work. We just need to collect the money for it. So you mentioned making sure that when we do this, we have good treatment plan estimates, which comes from good insurance verification, which comes from good entering of that. That's gonna help a lot. What are some of the other financial policies that you've found that tend to work really, really well for practices?

 

Kristy (17:17)

Yeah, well, let me be clear that treatment plans are different than financial arrangements. Treatment plans are what we're going to do. Financial arrangements are how are we going to take care of it? And many times people are missing the how we're going to take care of it. They're like, yeah, they know the cost. We gave them the printout. But are we really solidifying how we're going to take care of it? You know, are you the type of patient that needs

 

to pay over time? Are we capturing exactly what they're doing, if you will?

 

Kiera Dent (17:50)

Yeah, which is really smart because otherwise

 

it's a lingering, it's are we paying with cash? Are we paying with credit card? Are we paying with financing options? What are we doing with that? That's going to firm this up and I agree as soon as that gets dialed in and people panic. Like I don't wanna put this out there. And I'm like, where do we feel like we went back to the 1800s to where it's like, just put it on my tab. Like I still do not understand why dental practices get so nervous to ask patients to pay for something that they just received.

 

99 % of the time in today's world, we're having to prepay for these treatments before services are done. And I feel like dentistry, let's, let's come to the playing field. Let's get a little more current. Let's get a little bit more on the same page of the rest of the world. It's not weird. It's weird. The fact that we think it's weird. That's what's weird. Like it's okay to ask patients to pay for it. It's okay to expect them to have financials before they come in for treatment. That's normal. And then what we do is for all the patients that we've been like,

 

lollygagging on in the past, it's okay, it's all right, there's no judgment here. Those patients we start to collect when they come in. So we start to collect on that side, we can send statements to them, we can run our AR and we get better for future and we have them sign on those financial arrangements so that way there's no confusion. The only reason patients get frustrated with you is because expectations were missed. So I love what Kristy said with these financial arrangements. It's a beautiful way to not have expectations being missed and a really good way to squeeze some juice in your practice.

 

to find those little missing opportunities. Kristy, you've been a freaking dream. Are there any other little like secret nuggets that you feel like you wanna leave with our audience before we say goodbye today? Because honestly, I just have loved this and I enjoy the imagery. I'm gonna like have you, every time I see you now, I'm gonna think of you like squeezing the juice. Like I'll just think of you like, Kristy's over there taking lemons into lemonade. So any other last thoughts you have as we wrap up today?

 

Kristy (19:32)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, actually you mentioned the financial arrangements and I just want to challenge people. literally, I almost love the practices where they say, see you later, send me a statement and flipping them to actually getting down payments or reservation fees for appointments. Like I've watched a practice go from literally that.

 

Kiera Dent (19:54)

Yeah.

 

Kristy (20:04)

to, my gosh, they're so excited because they are using Pre-Collect. But I also want to flip people's thinking. Just like you said earlier about patients not wanting to stay, don't put our own bias in it. Because I hear people say, well, we'll do a reservation for large appointments. I just want to challenge you that

 

allow that same opportunity even for the smaller payments. If I had $500 in my savings and you offered me to pay $250 today to reserve it and $250 when I come in, I very well may appreciate having that so it doesn't drain my savings or my checking or wherever I'm pulling that money from versus, hey, you could pay $50 today and now I have $450 to pay when I come back in. So I just challenge you to, you know, try.

 

gamify it a little bit and have fun with it and I promise your patients will appreciate it.

 

Kiera Dent (21:02)

Kristy, I love that you said gamify it. I think I heard once at a conference I attended and they said, business is just a game. Like it's truly a game. And when you look at it, it takes the stress out of it. think running a successful practice can be a game, not our dentistry being a game for the patients, but a game of how we think about things. I mean, I look at like chess or my brother used to play strategic or.

 

There was another game like Clue. loved playing Clue. That was like my favorite game. mean, I was the Clue master. I won that game all the time. I would love somebody to like challenge me on it. But the reason those games are fun is because we challenge our thinking. We think outside the box. We make it fun. And so I love, Kristy, these ideas you brought to the table today are how can we think outside the box? How can we make it fun? And I agree with you, Kristy. It's crazy how when you just change your thinking,

 

Just a smidge, we're not asking you to like completely and obliterate who you've been all this time, but just a smidge, you will see magic happen in your practice. You will see more patients saying yes to you. You'll see more patients scheduling. You'll see your AR being chipped down. Doctors, you'll see more money coming into your bank account. So many wonderful things this way just to change it. And I love that you said like offer it to even the smaller ones. Why not? Cause you're right. That is a benefit to these other patients. They might say no, but they also might say yes. And then collections become so much easier. So Kristy.

 

It was so fun to have you on the podcast. I love you on our team. I love practices who get to work with you. I always feel like practices who get to Kristy truly get just such a treat to work with you because you really do find these little simple ways to help them hit goals and possibilities that they honestly never believed was possible. So thanks for being on the podcast with me today and being on our team. Of course, and for all of you listening, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

 

Kristy (22:42)

Thank you.

 

Kiera and Tiff share highlights from the Dental A-Team Summit — the best one yet! They touch on communication, the life cycle of a business, keeping teams energized, and more.

Mark your calendars for the Dental A-Team Summit 2026!

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Transcript: 

Kiera Dent (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera and ⁓ gosh, today's a great day. I have the one and only Spiffy Tiffy on the podcast. I feel like we're going back to like OG status here, Tiff. Like it's been a while. Welcome to the podcast. How are you?

 

Tiffanie (00:14)

I'm good. Thank you. Luckily, Shelbi snuck a time in here for us. I mean, gosh, we've got a birthday podcast. We've got this coming up. Like we've got all kinds of stuff in the works, but I'll see you in a gear in a year. Right? That's all we get.

 

Kiera Dent (00:26)

I know, right? See ya! See you next

 

May. I'll see ya. No, I love it because honestly, you and I host, we podcast, you take a lot with the consultants and so ⁓ I selfishly put you in on my day of podcasting because I miss, I miss our OG days. I miss ⁓ us hanging out. I mean, I did take us on a hike and podcast. Like that was really going back in style. Supposedly the video works. If you guys saw it, give us a thumbs up. ⁓

 

We were both very awkwardly uncomfortable sitting up there, but it was awesome. And the things like this, got sunburned. So that was funny when we were up there, all the pieces, but it was a good time. And I felt like this back to our original roots, Tiff. Sometimes I think we need to remember where we came from and how we got here. So, I mean, I was just talking to Shelbi and Kristy and told them about our Venmo days and how you stayed with me through all these years. If you don't know the Venmo story,

 

Tiffanie (00:57)

There were so many courts.

 

I agree.

 

Here I am.

 

Kiera Dent (01:22)

When Tip first started, I paid her via Venmo and Venmo has maxes if you didn't know that. Tip was a 10.99, so I paid her via Venmo. I would not recommend this. And why Tiffanie stayed with me, I don't know because the Venmo would max and I'd have to text her and be like, hey, so it's maxed out. Give me like two days. It wasn't that I didn't have money. It's just that Venmo would max. So Tip, I don't know. Like how did you feel like that wasn't a shady business? That's question number one and then we'll get into our real topic today.

 

Tiffanie (01:31)

Thank you.

 

have no idea. Honestly, I don't have an answer for that. I truly just don't. I just trusted and I mean, by early on, it was like the first two months of working together and you didn't have employees yet. So I guess in the back of my mind, I was like, we're just creating the systems, like we're figuring it out. And worst case scenario, like I always, I always have a backup plan and I was still in my office. So it was like, that's fine. We're figuring this out. We're going to see how it works. And here we are almost eight years later.

 

Kiera Dent (01:51)

Ha

 

you

 

You are.

 

It's incredible. Nope. Definitely not Venmo. And it was funny because I was thinking back to like startup businesses and I did a podcast with someone else and we were talking about like, I think you forget when you like go to open your second location or your third of like, ⁓ yeah. Like we had to scrap it that hard when we first started. So Tiff, thanks for, thanks for being an OG, which stands for original gangster, not oldie, but goodie, but it's okay. If you want to do Kiera's style, I had to ask Tiff.

 

Tiffanie (02:18)

Not Venmo-ing.

 

Kiera Dent (02:44)

a things in my life. had to educate me on a few and that was one of them. was like, Tiff, does OG stand for? And here we are. So, Tiff, I figured with you and I on the podcast today, I thought it'd be really fun. You and I just in person did our fifth summit. Can you believe five summits? Like Tiff.

 

Tiffanie (02:49)

Luckily I'm all filtered.

 

No, when we had,

 

actually saw it on social media, on our social media. It said like, our fifth summit is coming. And I was like, oh my gosh, is that true? Like, you sent the postage on our Instagram and that's how I knew. So no, I can't believe that it was our fifth summit. It blew my mind when I saw that.

 

Kiera Dent (03:09)

you

 

Yeah, it was well and there was a point in time where I debated if I wanted to keep doing summits. And the only reason that I actually went through is because we started the summits. Our first one was in 2021. And I knew I would be able to remember how many we had done because 2021 is one, two is two, and I was like, we got to keep this up. Otherwise, I'm going to really get off count. So that's why I know it's the fifth because it's 2025.

 

⁓ But I think honestly, Tiff, you and I, I wanted to give some highlights. If you missed it, you missed out and you should definitely mark your calendars for next year. I will say with wild confidence and Tiff, I think you would agree of all the summits that we have put on, ⁓ this was by far, think our best production that we've ever done. I think it was our best content. I think it was our best flow. And like the feedback that we got from this summit was off the charts, like shocking how good it was. That's my opinion. Next year, it's April 24th. So if you missed us,

 

Tiffanie (03:45)

piece.

 

Kiera Dent (04:14)

this year, mark your calendars right now, block it out. It is a Friday. We do it for a half a day. It is CE. So you're definitely going to want to block April 24th, 2026. That's coming to you guys. But Tiff, I felt it was our best and I've got some ideas and we want to give some recaps, but what were kind of your takes on the summit this year?

 

Tiffanie (04:30)

Yeah, I think we just got it dialed in. We take feedback every time we do anything. Every time we consult a practice one-on-one, every time we group consult practices, webinars, like anything we do. So Summit, there's always been feedback requests. And I think we've done really well narrowing it down and figuring out what the biggest requests were. I think one of the major things that played to our advantage was really getting a ton of information in a short amount of time. I think,

 

crammed as much in, what do we do? Like four and a half hours as we have done in a day and a half. And we did really, really well. The presentation was clean. It was crisp. had a ton of engagement and honestly, we're still getting people scheduling the calls right now. ⁓ Today you've even done some during your podcasting day. I know just to make sure that everybody's gotten the resources that we had available. And I just think it was jam packed with a ton of information and

 

Kiera Dent (05:02)

Yeah, four and a half.

 

Yeah. ⁓

 

Tiffanie (05:28)

It stacks really, really well with the consulting that we do for our one-on-one clients and for our group consulting. It just honestly played right into how all of the consultants operate with all of our clients. So it was fantastic. I agree.

 

Kiera Dent (05:42)

Yeah, I thought it and I agree with you. think it was, ⁓ I think we really dug into this extraordinary and something Tiff, you and I, this was Tiff's vision. So Kiera's vision was summit, Tiff's vision were these in-person like doctor, leadership, masterminds. And you have been pushing me for probably what? Like four five years to do this. Like it has been, we're at five years then. It's been a solid push. I remember the day this came about, I think you do too. were, ⁓

 

Tiffanie (05:59)

Bye as long as we've been doing summit.

 

Kiera Dent (06:08)

definitely team was on a budget back in the day. And I still think to this day, even not on a budget tip and I would still do this. We're sharing a hotel room and we were sitting there chatting late at night. And I remember Tiff, you're like, Kiera, I have this vision of these in-person events where we get all our doctors together and we do like life and we do business. And I was like, I see it. And then you're like, and I also think we should have a coffee shop. Like it was like both mixed into one. I think the coffee shop also threw me cause I'm like, how are we going to do all that?

 

Tiffanie (06:29)

I'm

 

you

 

Kiera Dent (06:37)

But we literally came to it, by the way, just highlighting, you're in the blue shirt, I'm in the pink shirt today. How perfect is that? If you guys don't know, this is another vision. Tiff and I aren't going to be 90, 90 plus year old grannies. We have the same birthday. I'm gonna be cotton candy pink, Tiff's gonna be cotton candy blue. So whenever we show up this way, it always makes me giggle just how in sync we always are. But back to our vision of these in-person that Tiff had, I think it played into our summit of we're really getting intentional of like,

 

Tiffanie (06:56)

You can have steak.

 

Kiera Dent (07:06)

life on purpose and business on purpose. And so this year's theme was ⁓ unlocking, gosh, was unlocking extraordinary leadership and profitability. And what we wanted to do is I get really annoyed as a CEO when I do CE and it just is coming to me as the owner to then take it back and rally TIF. And honestly, when I've tried to come back and rally the whole team, I just noticed there was this disconnect. And I think as a company, we've always had this vision of like, it's dental, it's doctors and team. Like, look at our name.

 

Dental A Team doctors and team, like it really flies together. And so being able to bring teams together and doctors together in your office, in your space, but teach you life skills and dental skills. And Tiff, know like when you go to offices, people tell you all the time, like how grateful they are. You teach them life through dentistry. Like walk me through why you do that, how you do it. I know it's just like who you are as your DNA, but I think that's why you have so much passion for what we do.

 

Tiffanie (08:00)

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. I truly believe that ⁓ if I can create passion in someone for what they do for a living, that they'll stay lifelong. think that, I don't know. I don't know, Kara. I think, like you said, it's just naturally ingrained in me. It's just who I am. I take a lot of...

 

what I learn personally, and I duplicate that and I kind of like copy and paste it onto who I am as a as a team member and as an employee because I don't believe I hate the term work life balance. ⁓ I have like a Jars and crazy because I live one life I have one life and I have different spaces of life for sure. But if I 100 % show up differently in every space of life, I'm going to feel like I'm running ragged. So if I can look at

 

Kiera Dent (08:31)

Ha ha!

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Tiffanie (08:48)

relationships as just relationships. And then there's the stack of like, intimate versus friendship, like for sure, there's that deviation. But if I can treat every relationship with the same basics, and communication with the same basics, then I'm not confusing myself. I'm not trying to be something I'm not, and I'm not working harder. You know, I love easy, you know, I love

 

nothing more than defined efficiencies. And like, that's a major efficiency in my life is really being able to stack a belief that I have and then copy and paste it into work. So the way that I communicate with you is the same way that I communicate with my boyfriend, Aaron, or my son Brody. It just, I'm using different words ⁓ to get a different, to get a point across. So when I go into practices and I work with teams and I work with doctors, that's the kind of stuff that I leave them.

 

So when I'm speaking about how we can communicate, I'm also mixing in how those communication tools not only have helped our company and UNI's communication tenfold, but also

 

how it helps me and my personal relationships at home. So I constantly, I think if you polled all of my offices, I don't think there's anyone out there who doesn't know who Brody is. He secretly probably hates that. He gets hellos, gets birthday cards, all these things. But I utilize him as such an example for how we can show up for our families and for our kids using the same tools. And so when I walk away and teams are saying that, they're saying, my gosh, Tiff, like.

 

Kiera Dent (10:00)

Mm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Tiffanie (10:17)

I went home and I talked to my husband last night and I had the first real conversation that I've been able to have with him in forever because I listened, because I used the tools that you told me to use on patients. So the way that you're listening to a patient, the way that you're putting your ego aside and allowing your patient to be the most important.

 

person in the room, sometimes we have to put that aside and allow our spouse to be the most important person in the room for the time being and have a conversation instead of having a telling where we kind of just sit and we just talk at each other. We're not actually listening. We're not actively engaged and jumping to the assumptions, all those pieces. So I think that's how I do it. And then I want like mass scale of that because I can only hit so many, so many people one-on-one.

 

And I think that's something that you and I have envisioned for the company for a really long time. We know that there's a limit of how many teams and how many doctors each consultant can affect. So being able to take these pieces and these skills and these developments that do smash life and work together on a mass scale like summit or these in-person events that we're doing now for our doctors and our leaders was really something that I think spoke to both of us to be able to just

 

get the message out, get things changed on a mass scale.

 

Kiera Dent (11:32)

Totally. And I think that that just ties right into our vision of Dental A Team is to positively impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible. And we do that through expert consulting for dentists and teams. And you're right. Like it's funny, we always run into these zones of like, we've hit the ceiling, we've hit the ceiling of where we are. So how do we like turn and pivot and give more? Because as you were saying that I might actually think that that's the secret sauce to Dental A Team. I think we focus on life and business. We focus on you as a human and we do it through dentistry and like dentistry is our vehicle.

 

What did I say the other day? said, ⁓ life is my passion, dentistry is my avenue. And so really, or our platform. So we're able to come and like help you have this amazing life. And that's, think what all the summit was about. Like it was literally, how do we do this? And so we walked the participants through like, what does extraordinary mean to you? And so if you attended the summit, hopefully this is a good like analysis and like, how did you do and how are you doing? And kudos to all those who joined our Dental A Team family. By far, this was our best year of welcoming new offices in. And I think it just spoke to like,

 

the flow that we were in and the mission that we're about. And we really brought in our Dental A Team Success model and we call it the Yes Model. So you can say yes to more things in your life, to whatever you want. And the Y stands for you as a person and the E stands for earnings and profitability. The S stands for systems and team development. And when you add those three components together, you get success with E's. And Tiff, I think the U part was probably my favorite and funniest part of the entire thing we went through. There are these little.

 

human beings that we draw and we like break up all the parts of our life and Tiff did one of the funniest things she's ever done in front of me. And we were we were looking at her like current life and how her time was split up. And she'd never done this exercise. I was so excited to do it with her in real life. And then Tiff tell about your ideal life and what ⁓ what we uncovered. So like, okay, let me just give the vigil. Basically, what the idea was, and you can try this is you take like a little image of you as a human and you break it apart and you you look to see

 

like in your day in and day out life, just like Tiff said, it's not, we're breaking apart, like you, your life and your work balance, but it was like, how are you spending your time, cut up on a human body? kind of like, like if you think about those cows and they have like the meat chunks, like drawn out of them, like here's the filet, here's the ribeye, like kind of like that, but on you of like, where's my work? Where's my family? Where's my friends? Where's my hobbies? Where's my working out? Like whatever's important to you and like how much of your physical body, like in a visual of your full life,

 

How much of that are we spending in different areas and what does it look like? Like it's a really awesome, if you didn't get to participate in it, it was real fun. And then what we do, and we had like two little, little images next to each other. And then on the other side, we said, okay, this is what you're doing currently and this is what real life looks like. What would your ideal life look like? Like, what would you want to spend? Like, where would you put this? And it's so fascinating because where people put things, it actually says a lot about them. Like what you put on the legs and what you put on the feet and what you put on the arms and what you put across your heart, what you put on your head. Like it really helps to identify things. But tip.

 

Go ahead, take this away as long as you're not embarrassed by it, because it was so freaking funny of how this shook out in real time.

 

Tiffanie (14:30)

I mean, I've got

 

hundreds of people already, so why not just ramp it up? Now we've got thousands, I guess. That's fine. No, I never, nothing's, no, maybe some things are too far, I guess, but I'm an open book. So it was actually, it was really, really cool. And I had not done it yet. I've done other things similar to it. Even we have done similar things to it, but just really looking at

 

Kiera Dent (14:37)

Why not? Here we go.

 

Tiffanie (14:56)

I took it as like my vision of where I wanted my life to be. And then like, what is going to propel me there? Like what aspects of life and relationships, et cetera, will propel me to that vision? So kind of what we did in person in March. Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (15:08)

And kudos to you, Tiff, because that's what it's supposed to be. Like it's literally

 

helping you see like, okay, where am I spending it? And then where do I want to become? And the idea is to help you visualize your future, but also take it in as an identity of you to help you actually see how you yourself is that identity of the future vision. So huge kudos. Tiffanie got it. That was the idea behind it. That's why we put it in a human form for you. It kind of looks weird. Like they like these weird little doll. I don't know. Like they look weird. We still are trying to work on it.

 

Tiffanie (15:34)

She likes to call them voodoo

 

dolls. They're funny.

 

Kiera Dent (15:36)

Shush, don't

 

say that. That's really going dark, Tiff. Go on, go on. She's sharing all my secrets.

 

Tiffanie (15:41)

you call them them. So maybe don't tell me those things because I'm an

 

open book apparently. So we did the first one and I was like, well, it was really good. It was enlightening. It was actually really cool. And afterwards, I keep thinking about like where things were in order with my chakras and all of that stuff that, you know, I'm obsessed with. So it really made a huge difference there. But I did my first one. And then what I did is I folded the paper. They're both on the same piece of paper. And I was like, I don't want my

 

Kiera Dent (15:48)

Bye!

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Tiffanie (16:11)

current layout to impact what I want my what I'm desiring. Right. So I folded in half so I couldn't see my current layout. Well, what that did was took away from my brain the pieces that I had on there. And I had everything on my future one on my what I want my ideal. I had everything duplicated on there just like different spaces except I forgot to put work on there.

 

So work got removed from my life. I don't know when this is happening, ⁓ but apparently, I don't know. I said, you know what, it's just because I don't have a work-life balance. I just have life and work is just integrated into every piece of my life because I enjoy it so much. So yeah, it was a really humorous event ⁓ during summit. know somebody said in one of the chats, what was it? Best resignation letter ever.

 

Kiera Dent (16:44)

you

 

you

 

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm. Exactly.

 

Tiffanie (17:07)

I was like, my gosh, that's

 

hilarious. That's amazing. So it was, it was funny. think that, I think that I have this innate ability to think of my life as what I want it to be and work supports it. And whatever it is that I'm doing, I make sure that I'm passionate about the avenues that I'm taking. I think that's why I do include so much life because life

 

like coaching and those pieces have just helped me so much in my personal life. And so as I looked at it and as I thought back about it, I'm like, gosh, it's just that those are the pieces that are insanely important to me and work is insanely important to me. But work is what propels those pieces in a lot of ways for me. And so thinking about like the amount of time separated out, I think just didn't feel right. You know what I mean? On that one, but it was hilarious. It was a great moment. If you were there.

 

Kiera Dent (17:58)

Mm hmm. It was really funny. It was really entertaining.

 

Tiffanie (18:03)

Yeah, it was super interesting.

 

Kiera Dent (18:03)

It was super entertaining. And it was it. But I think as you just said it, Tiff, and I didn't think about this at the time, I actually think it's awesome that your identity is not work. And I think that you as a human, like work is a part of it, life is a part of it. But work is not an identity piece of who you are. And I think that's been the case for so long. And I think for me, like work was such a huge identity piece for me that like we shifted it to where

 

it's not work and actually changed what I view about the company and now the company is my passion project. And so it gets lumped into my passions more so than it gets lumped into work. And it's even interesting the language. And so we really went through these pieces and it was awesome to go through and tip. Thanks for sharing that. And I just think like such a good visual. ⁓ it was funny because I was like, so tip, is this your resignation letter? Like on live screen and she's like, it's not, I promise. Like things are good.

 

⁓ But it was, it was quite interesting. And then we also went through like the life cycle of a business. And I think that actually was so telling. We pulled that from Tony Robbins and like, where are you on the life cycle of a business as you as a human? And it's been interesting is when we've talked to people post summit, they've said that that helps them just so much to see like, my gosh, like me as a human, I may be further along, but my business is at like this toddler stage. And so I need to hire people that are more in this younger energetic space because I'm over here on the other side, or I need to like,

 

kick it up and have this, or maybe my team is on this further side where they're maybe closer to retirement, but me as a new owner, I'm actually not there. And I thought it was just such an interesting spot for them to see where they were. And then of course we dug into the earnings, the money. So we walked through them through like profitability and overhead calculator and your monthly cost expenses. And then how do you figure this out? And how do you become profitable? And ⁓ really helping them see how like your supplies and your costs and your overhead directly impact your profit. And then

 

a couple quick ways for you to actually watch this, and that's through a KPI scorecard, and then also giving you then the systems, and we purposely hit two systems within, like we had you assess 12 systems on a 12 monthly basis, so that way you can keep them as a cadence, but then really diving into a couple that will boost your profitability and help your patients, and that was through block scheduling and case acceptance. So just a really fun way, and then after that, we hit.

 

Some of my favorite parts and some parts that people really loved, like I thought it was interesting when we went through like enemies of efficiency and the delegation ladder and like, where are you at and how much are you delegating? So many people said like, my name was in all these tiers of the delegation ladder. And then we actually went through case studies, like what are, like looking at hundreds and thousands of practices, I loved this part so much Tiff and we brought to the table like, what are the characteristics of these extraordinary leaders?

 

for teams and for owners. And then what are the ones of the not so good? Like it is not hard when we walk into a practice, when we look at these leaders, we can usually see, are they going to be successful or are they not within very short amount of time and even talking to them on the phone. ⁓ And so being able to go through that. I think just like the way it all stacked of like looking at you as a person, looking at your business, looking how they combine together and not be separated. And then like, shoot enemies of efficiency delegation, like just so many nuggets. And if you missed it,

 

reach out. There might be some things that we could share with you guys, but I hope you put it your calendar because I think one people left there inspired and excited. I've had people like I saw an office right after and they said, Kiera, like what you guys put together was so helpful and so impactful. And like I was able to take things and have tactical and like people had their teams there and they're like you teaching my team to think about our practice as a business, but also as a patient centered focus and also as us as humans, like

 

Where do you get that in CE anywhere else? And Tiff, really truly think that that's the secret sauce of what we've tried to create and what we have created for all these practices. So that's kind of like my nutshell of like, love the case studies. I love sharing what people do. Like I loved going through leadership and like the good and the not so good. And we actually had people like put in there, like, what do think good leaders are? And what do you think bad leaders are? And like the not so influential ones. And to see, because there are truly patterns and to like figure out the pattern and DNA of these great practices so you can go model and mirror it.

 

I just think was like freaking magic to share with people because we see it. They don't necessarily get to see it day in and day out.

 

Tiffanie (22:12)

Yeah, I totally agree. ⁓ I always tell my practices, my and my doctors, that my biggest goal is that the business works for them, not them working for the business. And I think the tools that we shared with them and the things that they could take home, the communication tools, the efficiency tools, all of those like, yes, models, everything that we sent them away with are easily, easily implemented, and will propel towards that goal where the business literally is supporting

 

your life and maybe, you know, right now today on your current little man, your little person, your, you know, work, your business might be a large portion of that human being. And it was for us for a long time because it had to be, it was a space that

 

We had to create that and we had to show up every day for the business so that eventually the business could show up for us. And I think we've gotten to the point now, both of us where this company and this business and the people that we have here with us on our side are supporting that vision and really things have started to shift. So on the life cycle of a business, like you might be in that stage where you are hungry to get your business running off the ground and you might be putting more in there than your future self wants. But guess what? If you know that vision, it's

 

super clear, you can make your business work for you so that you're not constantly working for your business and eventually it will turn

 

Kiera Dent (23:34)

And I think it's just a to me that's like what gets us excited like I love giving people their life back I love like tiff as much as I give you a hard time about having work off of there That was not the case a year ago Like you were stressed out of your mind about work And I think it would have taken a huge chunk and I was stressed a year ago about work too like I think it was a huge portion of our time our mental energy and I think like you and I have both helped each other get our lives back. I think that we are happier humans now

 

And so we're living proof of it, but then also to give practices their lives back, to give teams their lives back to, like there's an office that I'm super excited we're working with. And they said like, I'm sober out. feel like, and like the whole leadership team, they're like, we're the ones who are here after hours. We're the ones that are here before. We're the ones who are like, just they're like exhausted. They're like ringing a rag out and then you squeeze it even more trying to get like the last two drops of life out of them. And I said,

 

What would it be like if I told you that if you got out of here every day at five o'clock, you're not allowed to stay later, you're not allowed to come in earlier. And at the end of that week, you'd be able to go on a trip to Cabo or wherever you want to go, pick your dream location, Hawaii, the Caribbean. I don't care. You choose your place. Or if you want like, I don't know, say 50,000 bucks or whatever it is, could you get out on time? And they were all like, yes. And I said, so A, we know it's possible and B,

 

that's getting your life back. So first homework assignment working with us is everyone's out the door by five, at least one day this week. And it's crazy because just small little changes that don't seem huge help people get their life back. And Tiff, it was just so magical to be with you and to be in person with you and to present and to give this. And I think that that's probably why we were both so excited from it. Like we, felt like we were in Taylor Swift. Let me just give a little Swiftie, like the lavender haze. I felt like we were in the Dental A Team haze after the summit of just the

 

Tiffanie (25:19)

Thank

 

Kiera Dent (25:23)

euphoria of knowing we were able to give people their life back, their teams getting energized, giving them hope and excitement. Again, not just about a practice, but about a life. So those are kind of my takeaways to have any last thoughts you have, because I loved it. I'm so grateful you were a part of it. ⁓ Ride or die, cotton candy pink and blue for life, like truly just being able to deliver our magic and to change lives and to bless them through dentistry, I think is something that we both... ⁓

 

I think I took for granted for a hot minute and realized like what a beautiful blessing it is in the way we're doing it now versus stringing ourselves up to dry, doing it so hard, now doing it through passion and ease and flow rather than through force and pull like we did in the past.

 

Tiffanie (26:04)

I agree. Yeah, I totally agree. I did all of that. And I think having the team that we have behind us, the consultants who are here and they are so excited to help so many new clients this week, we have just seen such an influx of people ready to change their lives, ready to change what their business model looks like. And like you said, get their lives back. It's been just really incredible and watching our consulting team just rise to the occasion rally. I mean, we've got clients that just signed up this week that I've got Trish and Kristy and

 

Dana has already implemented tools. Dana has already within weeks found significant money issues and things going on that it's just really cool to be able to watch so many people outside of you and I be able to truly transform lives. And that's what that's what we're all about is really just creating the best for everyone that's involved.

 

Kiera Dent (26:57)

Yeah, Div, I love it and I agree. Our consultants are second to none. And so if you missed out, you did miss out. And put it on your calendar for next year. I do believe that Dental A Team Summit is next to none. We just have so much fun. We bring fun to CE and we make it enjoyable and easy. But I hope you choose to join us next year for sure.

 

But if you're thinking like what we just talked about, you want to know more about, or you want some tips for it, or you want some of the resources that we share, reach out. [email protected]. We'll happily like assess it with you and your practice. Like we have given so many tools out and so much help to all these practices, but I think truly giving you your life back, helping you help more patients and having more fun is what we're about. So Tip, thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks for doing Summit with me. ⁓ I enjoyed it and I just appreciate and adore you so much as a human and as a colleague, as a coworker, as a mentor, and just being in my life.

 

for who you are. So thanks for being here today. I super appreciate you.

 

Tiffanie (27:48)

Thank you. Thank you for having me and supporting me through my journey.

 

Kiera Dent (27:52)

And for all of you listening, thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Tiff and Dana discuss the numerous innovations happening in the field of pediatric dentistry, specifically minimally invasive care and maximizing shortened attention spans.

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:02.2)

Hello Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to be back here with you. If you listened to an earlier podcast, I alluded to the fact that Dana and I were going to have some fun with a really cool podcast. I'm excited for this one. I think it took a little bit for us to prep for this one, but I think that's the world of dentistry for us. Dana, thank you for spending so much time with me this afternoon busting out a few podcasts here for the...

 

For the listeners, how are you this lovely afternoon?

 

Dana (00:33.698)

Doing good, doing good. I'm excited to be here. I've had to reframe my podcast time to Tiff time because it helps really get me pumped up and excited for it.

 

Tiffanie (00:39.768)

I'll make it.

 

Tiffanie (00:44.986)

I appreciate that. I love that so much. It is our time together. Kristy started saying the same thing too. And, I love getting you guys on here and I can't wait to get some with Trish and all the other consultants that, that we have. think it's just so valuable for us to get the time together, share ideas. Cause you know, we have, we have our consultant co-labs, but this seems to be where the most ideas just like randomly spur out. Cause it's almost like we're coaching.

 

when we talk about these things. So you're welcome to the world. Thank you to the world for joining us for our consultant time. It's my Dana time, my Britt time, my Kristy time. So thank you, Dana. I appreciate it. Today, I thought it would be fun. And I want to caveat this before I truly talk about what we're talking about. This is for everyone. We want to focus today on pediatric dentistry innovations. But

 

I really think that there's some valuable tips and tricks in here for everyone and not just pediatric practices. I know a lot of GP practices see many children. I know a lot of pediatric practices that refuse GP referrals, which I think is really funny. And I totally understand because when I was in my GP practice, it was like we would take kids, but the worst kids we did not. And so I totally get it. It just makes me chuckle every time.

 

Regardless, my oral surgery practices, you guys are seeing kiddos and by kiddos, mean like realistically 16 and under is what we're talking about here today. I know my my periopractices, sometimes you guys are seeing them too. My son plays lacrosse and gosh dang those teeth. just cringe every time something happens, mouth guard or not. I have seen, I don't know how many mouth guards fly across the field and they have stopped play because it's thank God. I thank God for this for these.

 

rules and regulations, but it's part of the uniform. And so if they're missing, if they if if the ref see it fly out of their mouth, they'll call the bell stop the game so they can go get it. But I'm like, you got hit so hard your mouth guard blew out. Anyway, it's periodontist. I know you're seeing kiddos too. So everyone's seeing kiddos. And today it's just pediatric dentistry innovations and

 

Tiffanie (02:57.342)

I think, Dana, you said it well just before we got on here. There's not a lot of exciting new things for pediatric dentistry or realistically right now for dentistry in general. We've kind of hit the space of, we're gonna try this stuff out for a little while. So I agree with you there, but I think we've come up with some really good things and tested and seen some amazing things that are working for the generations of kids that we have right now.

 

we were talking attention spans. So I know that that will come into play with some of the stuff we're speaking on today, but really, really honing in on, I think it's, again, it's going to come back to like that trust and that value and making sure that emotionally we're, we're emotionally evoking things for our patients, whether they're adults or children, so that they're comfortable, they're confident, they trust us and they want to return. For the kiddos, I get really emotional and

 

I just love on the pediatric practices. I myself could never work in a pediatric practice full time. There's no way. I don't have the patience for it, but man, do I value and appreciate the work that all of you guys are doing and Dana, that you were able, that you've done and are continuing to do in your efforts as well. Because to me, I've done mostly GP and oral surgery.

 

And I really had so many patients. I've met so many people that are so afraid of the dentist because they had a horrible experience as a child or because they had a parent who had a bad experience as a child that passed it on to them. Those were the worst for me, but I just value and appreciate the amazing pediatric practices who are out there doing amazing work and creating lasting.

 

impressions for people because you've really set them up for success in so many different places. So whether you're a GP, a specialty, a pediatric specialty, no matter what a lot of these pieces we're going to talk about today are really going to help you set the stage and the tone for these people's lives. And Dana, you've done pediatric dentistry. Thank you. Praise to you. I just, you know, I love kids, but this

 

Tiffanie (05:13.536)

I just don't have it in me and I know that about me. I can consult them and I can spend a day and a half in office with them and love on those kids while I'm there and then I'm exhausted and need to go home. So I love it. Thank you, Dana for being there. Dana, I actually I really loved some of the things you were talking about, like the continuation of products and services and stuff that we're already utilizing. think GP and pediatric offices are using a lot of those. Tell me

 

here with everyone listening a little bit about some of those pieces that you used and that you're seeing still lot of your pediatric practices are using and what have you seen just continue to innovate in the world of that.

 

Dana (05:53.472)

Yeah, I think one of the biggest things that pediatric practices are always looking at ways to innovate is minimally invasive care. So how can I get this kiddo treatment that they need improve what they came here with in a way that is as minimally as invasive as possible because of exactly what you said. think pediatric practices beyond yes, all practices have to work on experience pediatric practices are unique and they've got a parent experience and a patient experience and oftentimes the patient experience impacts the parents.

 

experience, as I can tell you my mom heart, just for my mom heart too. So I feel like they have worked really, really hard in trying to find ways to treat kiddos as minimally as they can, right? And but yet still getting some really great results. So they have found a lot of things, you know, we're even starting to see a little bit of like, you know, non injection.

 

Tiffanie (06:26.552)

Yeah.

 

Dana (06:49.088)

anesthetizing and things like that that really really, know, SDF has made huge leaps and bounds. There's Cura.now for... What's the word I'm looking for, Tiff?

 

Tiffanie (07:01.784)

Keep going.

 

Dana (07:02.7)

Yeah, and so there's just all sorts of ways that we treat kiddos now that like didn't exist before and that is truly because we're looking at ways to treat them that helps create that positive experience and doesn't put them fearful in the dental chair.

 

Tiffanie (07:16.492)

Yeah, well, even Dana, I'm thinking too, even fluoride has come world so that they're not swallowing it or it's not as toxic, I guess is the best word to use there, or difficult because remember it used to, gosh, I remember the trays, right? I remember trying to shove those trays in kids' mouths in my office and I'm like, this does not fit. The doctor's like, no, it's supposed to be too big and it's just like fluoride foam is everywhere. So thank heavens those are.

 

hopefully a thing of the past. But even in the world of fluoride for kiddos, like what have you seen in that world, Dana, that has transpired over the course of last few years?

 

Dana (07:57.036)

Yeah, I think, you know, obviously the big switch to the varnish, think to like, I mean, I've even seen some pediatric offices, like I had a pediatric dentist and she basically like reached out to all the pediatricians in the area and was like, fluoride these kiddos as early as possible. I'll teach you how I'll so it's just expanding like the reach on that too has been incredible. And I think just the education to the parent because kiddos, you know,

 

they expose themselves to a lot of acidic things now. Diets have changed a lot over recent years and things in our food have changed a ton. And so as much as they can also just educate the parent on those choices and like, hey, we can kind of counteract some of those choices with Laura. really want to...

 

do a ton of nutritional counseling happens in pediatric practices too, but it just kind of reinforces the need for as we see these things change, we've got to make sure that kiddos get access to that too.

 

Tiffanie (09:05.462)

Yeah, and I think that's space of innovation as well that you just mentioned, the nutritional counseling. That's not something that's always been there. It's been there to a level, right? We know like soda, and I remember telling kids or being told to swish with water after I ate my lunch at school because I wasn't going to carry my toothbrush, you're supposed to brush. Like I remember all of those pieces. But I think in the recent years, nutrition, I think nutritional counseling in general, in the health industry has become bigger.

 

situation. It's become a bigger conversation and I know even standing in office with my pediatric

 

practices, consulting them, watching them work with patients. I've been just amazed at the level of nutritional counseling that they're giving the kids and the parents. And like you said, we're working with the parents. It's two experiences there, but really honing in on what are you eating and how it's affecting. And I think one of the biggest spaces that I love the most, is really being able to see like...

 

acid reflux, right, for one thing, but even just like the tongue thrusting, the different habits that they're able to see because of what the mouth looks like, and then they're able to correct it so early on and really build lasting changes. They can tell just by different visual things within the mouth, right? If there's gut issues, does your kid have an allergy? Like, maybe you should go check this out. And they're referring them back to their

 

there are pediatricians to get nutritional counseling or to get these tests and things done, or there's a lot of them that can be done in dental practices now as well, but really honing in and looking further than we've ever looked before to ensure that these patients are as healthy as possible. And I think that's massive. That's a huge innovation within the pediatric world. And I think it's a really easy space for dentists and...

 

Tiffanie (10:58.924)

for pediatric dentists specifically to really get extra training in. It's offered, you know, everywhere. I've got, you know, we've got gym.

 

trainers doing stuff like that, taking courses like that. So to be able to have your degree that you've got, your doctorate that you've got, and then add that aspect to it is just really, really freaking cool, in my opinion, and saves so much time and trouble and probably saves the parents a lot of time and trouble in figuring things out or finding out too late. So that was a huge one that you mentioned there. I think one space

 

One, I love that you highlighted again that it's two experiences. It's the parent's experience and it's the patient's experience. And when I work with pediatric practices, like we're building out avatars to attract the parents that we want because they're gonna have the kids that we want. So we're not talking to the kids, they're not making the decision, we're speaking to the parents.

 

One thing that I hone in on is the avatar, but then the second step to that is how do we ensure that the parent wants to come back? How are we making them comfortable in the practice? How do we make them comfortable with the diagnosis, the conversations? How are we integrating them into all of this as well? And making sure, like you said, my mom at heart, that the patients are well cared for.

 

one space we're hitting with the generations, you know, the generations are getting further and further from us. But those generations that we're hitting now, there's a huge attention span differential between even our you know, teens right now already have like pretty low attention span compared though to like our

 

Tiffanie (12:40.408)

are four to eight to 10, like that 16, 13 to 16 is like, gosh dang it, this is kind of kind of annoying, you know, but then you get under 13. And it's like, holy cow, I've got about five seconds to grab your attention. And then you're gonna we were saying like, our kids keep saying, I'm bored. I'm bored. I'm like, oh my gosh, did I hear you say I'm bored before we get to the industry one more time, I'm gonna freak out. But their attention spans are so low. They're so small, because there's so much

 

stimulation, constantly going around, that we have to take that into consideration, I think, within the dental practice, because we've got to keep their attention, we've got to keep them excited and interested and build an experience that they don't walk away frustrated by, because the parents are taking into consideration their experience. Like, did you have coffee on hand? That's a huge one for the moms out there.

 

And then did the kid have a good experience? So I think those aspects are massive. And Dana, what did you, we talked earlier and you actually wrote this newsletter. So if you're getting this newsletter, good job, Dana wrote this one. If you're not getting our newsletters, you should go subscribe because they're pretty freaking awesome.

 

and they're written by the consultants if you didn't catch that there. So Dana, what are you suggesting the practices are seeing practices? I think this works for all practices, by the way, these ideas here, but specifically pediatric dentistry is going to thrive with it. What are you suggesting right now to a lot of your clients that they integrate and innovate within their practice to help keep those attention spans? like here, that they're excited and interested?

 

Dana (14:14.38)

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's like a twofold. How do I keep them engaged and interested and excited and make dentistry fun? But then also, how do I kind of distract them so that I can do what I need to do in that short amount of time so that they stay comfortable and calm? And so I feel like we're looking kind of at a bunch of different tools. see, you know, I know there's lots of

 

TVs on the ceilings and and I'm even seeing some virtual reality. You know, kids are always like loving those oculus as I have a nephew that he's constantly like banging into the wall and you hear him on phone calls and I'm like, what's he doing? My sister was like, that's his oculus, his virtual reality game. And so it does allow you to kind of transport kiddos into the next world. So I think that it's, it's just coming up with how can we make dentistry fun? How can we make it engaging and make the patient feel like they're a part of the process? So these

 

Tiffanie (14:42.808)

Yeah.

 

Dana (15:08.494)

things that we use in general too but taking photos and showing them and talking about the icky bugs and like making it fun and in their terms and then also having tools on hand to be able to distract the kiddos that you can really do what you need to do very quickly very easily without minimal hands and minimal squirming so that again it creates that experience that you want them to have quick seamless easy in and out for them.

 

Tiffanie (15:33.344)

Yeah, yeah, the headphones are massive, right? I think the Oculus for the waiting room is brilliant. I know I've got to practice.

 

beautiful practice and she has a theater room and so they she's got like comfy chairs in there and that's dark and the movies going it's the same movie that's playing in the back and so the kids can go into the theater room but that oculus idea or the VR headsets whichever one you you choose is a great idea to have a little room where it's obviously the kids by themselves for

 

exactly what Dana said about her nephew, right? Kids are by themselves, but they're playing with that. used to do, I mean, gosh, this is so long ago, but I remember we used to have like a PlayStation one, you know, and it honestly drove me crazy. told you kids are not, I love kids, but.

 

Dana (16:06.446)

you

 

Tiffanie (16:20.728)

kids are not my jam for dentistry, but I would go crazy because it was the PlayStation one. So we had to flip the discs out, right? And so we had like 10 different games, but I had to keep them behind the counter and the kids would come up. But this is a little bit different where one, the kids know how to use this stuff. When we had the PlayStation, the kids did not know how to use a PlayStation. Kids were not like, they didn't understand it and they didn't get it. But now they're teaching us how to use this stuff. Like a six and eight year old could tell you how to use a VR headset.

 

My kid, he looks at something and he just knows. And I'm like, how did you figure that out? He's like, it's obvious. It's not obvious. I didn't get it. Right? Like, that was not obvious, but it's fine. So all these

 

these spaces of really making sure that they are super entertained. Like are we making them sit out there on their own phones or do we have things that they can do? Even as simple as like a coloring table. I know I had my boyfriend's kids the other day were walking through. It was old Navy and they were doing some sort of safety something. They had a table set up over the side with crayons and

 

coloring sheets, those kids flipped. They were so excited, screaming. It lasted about 10 seconds, right? Because it's going to be over quickly. But even just having something like that or having iPads with the color by number app, kids are obsessed with that right now. But making sure there's some sort of, like you said, that distraction, but also in the waiting area, like where are they sitting? And what are you making the parents do? You know, the parents are sitting in their school on their Instagram. So how are you keeping the kids entertained so that both parents or both

 

sides right are enjoying their time. So I love the VR headset. I love the the movies are still a pretty decent hit as long as you get bluey on there or something. I know it's got to be super relative. Apparently, the Disney movies are not super relative anymore. It's got to be bluey or bust.

 

Tiffanie (18:10.552)

But making sure we have those, think headsets in the back are really fantastic if they're going to be back there for a while. Or if you're going to be using the drill or anything like that, mean noise, have those noise canceling headphones so that they don't understand what's going on. And then one space too, Dana, that I think all practices are starting to implement. And I think it's brilliant for pediatric care because it makes it seamless and easy as the AI tools. So making sure you've got those AI tools, Pearl or

 

whatever it is that you decide to utilize, download it and working because I mean, Dana, how often did you see, I know just in our practice we'd be like, shoot, like that was hard to see or we just couldn't get to it that something could have been missed, but also like you said, super non-invasive attempts.

 

Dana (18:58.966)

Yeah, yeah, I think AI tools are great clinical AI tools are fantastic as far as helping us diagnose again with like minimal contact within the teeth or in the mouth for the patients. And then even AI for like having a chat for parents because parents right typically work when the office is working. That's why those middle hours are so hard to fill and ding ding pediatric practices, right? So if I've got an AI bot that can chat with my parents after work can get them scheduled can do those things. That makes it so much easier because again, like Tiff said, we've got two experiences

 

here but our target experience is that parent and so the more that we can make those things easy and again pediatric practices rely on volume right so bones are constantly

 

Last time I was in a pediatric practice for a visit I was just like the phone does not separate in there are hundreds of phone calls every single day and so having an AI tool that can get the ones that we miss or that can chat with the parent via text or can be available for after hours those types are crucial for pediatric practices because that is when the parent has free time

 

Tiffanie (20:00.504)

So.

 

Yeah, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. I think that's a wonderful tool. So AI in a lot of different areas. We've got the virtual reality headset, the Oculus or whichever you choose, AI pearl or whatever chair side to get as much value out of that appointment and that chair time as you can. And then also the AI communication tools. think that's brilliant. Virtual assistance is also a great way to handle that because they can work any hours. And so we've got a lot of practices

 

Pediatric or not that are utilizing virtual assistance to catch those after hours and also I know a lot of practices especially pediatric practices are closed on Fridays or they're closed on Mondays open on Friday So you've got that you've got that four-day work week three or four days and so

 

The AI tools, the communication tools or the virtual assistant can grab a lot of those missed opportunity phone calls. And I know from the marketing standpoint, working closely with the marketing company for a few of my clients, that is massive.

 

being able to bring either of those tools in to grab those calls has drastically changed the marketing efforts and increased their results tenfold just because the opportunities were getting missed while we were closed. So I love those and that's brilliant. I think there's a ton of tools here. think kids are digital natives. Kids know what's out there. They know when you're not a digital native. So watch out for that. They will tell you they will call you on it. And if your VR headset is

 

Tiffanie (21:33.07)

is like, I don't know, an Amazon $20 ordered one, they'll tell you. tell you. I'm not saying go spend a ton of money on it. I'm just saying make sure whatever you get is going to keep the attention span of the child and that the games that are on there are quality. I think movies, things like that are fantastic. So my suggestion, my action items for you, really look at the patient experience. Take your dentist cap off.

 

and say if I had to come here, what would I expect if my kid were coming here? What would I expect? And really look at what your systems and all the pieces that are keeping people's attention, what are those things doing to create that experience for your patient and your parent?

 

and really take inventory of those spaces. Is there something that we can innovate on that we can just make it better, make it new? You always want to have that seamless experience and make it high end. And if we stay where we are, never innovate or change, we will eventually just die. So don't let that happen. Dana, thank you so much for your nuggets. Thank you for being our pediatric brain here in The Dental A Team and for sharing those tips and tricks. I appreciate you being here today.

 

Dana (22:49.28)

Yep, I always have fun. Thanks for having me, Tiff.

 

Tiffanie (22:52.062)

Of of course. All right, guys, go take inventory, go figure out what it is that you need to innovate on, if anything, and leave us some comments in the section below. Five star reviews are always appreciated. If you've got tips and tricks that you can share with people, people really do go through and read those reviews. So if you've got some, drop them in those reviews. We want to hear them too. [email protected] is how you can reach us. And if you are a practice who's ready to freaking innovate, let us know. We are here to help you along your journey. Dana, thanks

 

again and everyone we will catch you next time.

Kiera and Tiff are tuning in from a hike to talk about their shared birthday (today, May 8!) and how their personal and business evolutions have morphed.

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Transcript

The Dental A Team (00:00.977)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and... Spiffy Tiffy. Oh my gosh. We are on a hike and we're in the middle of the wilderness. We're a hot mess right now. So Tiff flew in and we decided since we're actually together, we should do our birthday podcast together because little known fact, if you don't know, Tiff and I actually shared the best birthday in the entire world. Yeah, May 8th.

 

I think they knew that though. I think they did too and if you didn't well welcome and so I convinced if we were gonna go on a hike today and when we used to be like old school old school dental a team we used to go on hikes and podcast on a hike so we decided to We've got cords all over us. Like this is in our ear. We haven't done this in so long I feel like rookie move here So if the video turns out amazing and if it doesn't well Just imagine Tiff and I are sitting up on a hill on this bench

 

It was a beautiful hike up. We're in Reno, Nevada right now, but we get to celebrate our birthday and I wanted to riff this because May 8th is an incredible day. Tiff and I are both like so random. Tiff, we met. I feel like Tiff and I in the work world, we met on a blind date basically. Like we were set up by a mutual friend for Tiff to come and join and she is still on my phone Tiffany Trader DPP. Yep. DPP is the company that Kara previously owned that brought us together. it was DPP. Dental placement pros. Tiff was a recruiter and then

 

Recruiter turned consultant turned lead consultant. She's kind of done it all but if I feel like happy birthday to you Happy birthday to you. Gosh, it's like just right around the corner It is and so this is releasing on our actual birthday And so I thought a fun rift would be to if we are both about to enter a new decade of our lives And I thought about thinking about like decades decades in practice ownership decades in our life I don't know how you're feeling but going into our birthday this year

 

I've really been like on this mole of like, do I want to be in the next decade of my life? And what do want that to embody? And I know you and I are both kind of on that same path. It's really fun. It's been fun with you. think over the course of time, shoot girl, it's been almost eight years. Five, eight, eight years. That's actually cute. But just thinking about like, we've gone through so much together. And I think if we were to look back at when we first started the company.

 

The Dental A Team (02:14.635)

I feel like Tiff started it with me. Like seriously, you've been through 99.999 % of all of it. just thinking back of like, I think of who we were when we met versus who we are today and really like huge kudos to us of like both progressing and growing. But I'm like, Tiff, what does this next decade look for you? Like I thought, let's think about it. And like, maybe what was the decade before? What was that focused on? And then what are we going into for this next one? From your perspective, from my perspective and helping owners and like offices think about like.

 

when you first started your business, might look different and like, what are the different decades or even five years of your life? How do we kind of like capture that and maximize? To me, this I feel like is living life on purpose rather than just unconsciously going through the motions. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think it's actually it's a really fun conversation, not only because it's a fun conversation, but it's actually.

 

I think I can make it super applicable for life and for business in general. So whether you're a dental practice owner or you're an entrepreneur of your own or just whatever kind of business you're owning or working in or managing, I think I can make it pretty applicable because when you ask me that question, like, what am I going into? What did I come out of? Like, what does that look like? And I think we both are very intentional human beings. So we're always very intentional with our time and we're very intentional with like what's coming and how can we make the best or the most of what's coming.

 

And I can say this one's fun too and easy for me because I'm going into a whole new world of age. Going from 39 to 40, that whole new like 10 years, everybody looks at their lives in like 10 year segments. And going into 30, that life was how can I show up the most for my kid? Because Brody, you know, was at an age where he needed me.

 

He needed the best parent that he could have. He needed the happiest mom that he could have. And I was very intentional with who I was being and what kind of a life I was creating for us so that Brody could have the best experience as possible. So going into 30 was like, okay, how do I show up the best for my kid? Because he's at these formative years and ages that he just, needs me to continue showing up and how do I show up the best for him? So it was very much about my identity as a mom, I guess, and like reforming that.

 

The Dental A Team (04:27.144)

And allowing my work to be a part of that and a part of Brody's life and a part of showing him how to be a good employee and good team member and a good human when it comes to work as well. And it's fun actually going into this next decade because Brody and I hit milestones together, which is incredible. I didn't plan it that way, but it works out really nicely. And so as he is graduating high school and going on to college, I will be a year into 40.

 

And so I'm going into my 40s with this whole new mindset of how do I support my adult child the best, which frees up honestly like so much for space for me because he is going to be so independent. And when I think about that, it's crazy because now I have all this time for me and this space for me. So really like reforming what that looks like for work, for pleasure, other relationships in my life.

 

making sure that I'm super intentional still, but thinking about it in like a business mindset, it's kind of like the, last 10 years was like my teenage years. Um, those Brody's, you know, out of like middle adolescent to into his teen years and really being intentional with that time in the teen years of like grit and the hard and the, um, emotions and the

 

puberty and all of the changes and business does that too. It does. Right. So you get to like five years in business and you're like, okay, I still have like a screaming toddler. And then you get to 10 and you're like, okay, this is kind of cool. We're sustaining. And then you, that next 10 years, right? Like if we're getting to those markers is like, okay, now we're like in our adolescence or however you might want to look at it. But then you get to the space where it's like, wow, this has opened up and I have leads and I have people on my team that are

 

sustaining my business. So it's like having an adult child, right? Who's like in college. So I still have to like be there and hold accountability lines and like do so much of it and financially still have to be there. But then in the next, you know, one to six years from now, that's going to shift and change again, where it's like, now I'm like, maybe not finance, so financially tied and so emotionally invested. And when you look at your business, I think it's kind of the same trajectory. So

 

The Dental A Team (06:49.486)

That's my long-winded answer. I liked it. No, I love it a ton because like, so when we did Summit together and we talk about the life cycle of a business, which came from Tony Robbins, and it really does talk about like from toddler to like from birth to top like infant, then toddler, then you go into like your middle school years. I do remember Brody in his middle school. were going to like, Tiff was like on coaching calls. We were running to like after school pickups. We weren't like the longest line.

 

And then they go into like high school then they move into college and then it's kind of this prime and it's interesting because I think as you and I shift into these decades That are different like I agree with you. I think our 30s were so much of building us building a business building who we wanted to be I feel like so much of my identity and who I am Not that it's tied to the business. I think at the beginning it was and I think we both watched We watched a lot of that and then we realized like this was crushing us and crippling us and we had some really strong breaking points like you said I think it's like that

 

refining and redefining who we are and like what we actually want it to be because we're no longer in survival mode like thank heavens like cheers to that like we should cheers our microphones here we go but like cheers to that that we got out of survival mode because every business and I think every person goes into survival mode that it's almost like tiff I'm I'm a little scared but like beyond optimally optimistically hopeful

 

that we can like sit and take a breath and actually enjoy what we created and enjoy the life we created rather than trying to keep building. And I think like that's like the crusting it feels like we're headed into in business and life. Like, so to like what's on horizon for 40. I mean, for me, I know I've been looking at, and it's funny, you and I are actually gonna probably switch roles. You're about to be childless, like less dependent. And if everything goes the way that my life is shaking up, we will become very child dependent. Like babies were hoping like that becoming a portion of our life, which.

 

Honestly, it feels funny that you and I are constantly shifting lives, like literally shifting all the time. But also so beautiful that the different seasons of life, we can show it for each other in different ways. But like what's on the horizon for 40? Like what does 40 feel? Because I've been thinking like, what's the energy of that? What do want it to be? We think of this in business every year. There's an energy, there's a creation, there's a like a word that we have. But it is interesting to not feel so survival-ish, but more sustained. And like to me, it feels like we're headed into true prime.

 

The Dental A Team (09:08.765)

in business and true prime in life. So what's on Tiff's prime? Like Tiff's not, Brody's like full-time parent all the time anymore. Like he's weird. That's gotta part. You also feel weird. what's the vibes you're feeling for moving into that decade of your life? Yeah, I'm really excited. I think the human and the man that Brody has already become, he impresses me every single day. Like literally every day I'm He's an amazing human.

 

I feel so lucky that I've been a part. mean how he was so little I think it was eight when we met and so to watch Brody I feel like I didn't see the child like I I don't know Tiff is like brand-new newborn mom I have no clue and that feels like hard hard years of your life And I met you when he was eight but to watch you and him just this incredible bond and he's such an amazing human like kudos to you has got to feel really good of like moving into 40 you grew

 

you raise this human that's really going to go impact the world in such a special way. is. He is going to do something incredible. And I remember when he was an infant and when he was like a baby and a toddler, I remember reminiscing with his grandma, his dad's mom, that he was going to do something really incredible. And every year of his life, the two of us have just been like, he's going to do something incredible. So we have known since that baby came into this world that he was here to impact the world in really great ways.

 

Brody does a lot of it on his own, if I'm honest with you, like I love taking credit for it because I know that I do impact him and I know that the way I communicate and the person that I am definitely helps mold him. but we've had a village of people around him, you and Jason included, like that have just impacted who he is, but Brody just intuitively and innately knows how to be a good human and he trusts himself. He trusts his intuition and he just goes through life. So.

 

I'm really proud of him and it's fun to watch that. so I'm really excited. I'm so sad. Like, gosh, it's just like heart wrenching to think of how massive that changes and like how different life will look in a year. But I'm so excited to see him as an adult and like see him create his own life and all of his own adventures. So I'm really excited about that. And what the next decade looks like is, I don't know, it feels like,

 

The Dental A Team (11:24.478)

I feel like things are slowing down but still speedy at the same time, if that makes sense. Like there's a lot coming, a lot of trips and a lot of fun and Aaron and I's relationship is just incredible and there's a ton on the horizon there, I can tell, and with his two younger kids. But being able to be in a space and in a relationship that I can continue to soar and continue to.

 

find freedoms and share those and spread those with him and explore the world with him while still being a part of the kids' lives but not being dependent on for that. don't know how to say that. You're be the auntie. Yeah, I'm not raising the kids. I'm there to positively impact and to support Aaron in whatever ways that he needs, but he doesn't need me to raise the kids, which is freaking incredible. It's the best relationship I could have ever drummed up.

 

So like that's on the horizon fostering that relationship those relationships all three of them and their mom fostering a relationship with her. She's incredible and really I don't know intentionally devoting into that new space and area and allowing me and Brody to find a new Just a new adventure like for both of us. It's gonna be The next ten years is gonna be really shifty. I mean just think he's gonna go from

 

18 theoretically to 28 in a decade Jason I were talking of like how crazy is it that when you look at the decades of your life So like from 1 to 10 you go through a lot of school But from your 10 to 20 like you're finishing up high school So basically like almost 20 years those first two decades are so much school But then I feel that third decade the 20 to 30 is so much freaking growth. It's finishing college. It's figuring out who you are It's getting your first job. It's figuring out how life works and then I feel like your 30s to 40s for us at least we're like

 

building. Like it was the big build of who we are as people. It's building your, it was building the business together. It was building our identities. It was building, like you were building with your children, um, like just so many pieces. And then it feels like the forties, it's almost like you've crested the mountain, which that was cute. We're at the top of the mountain right now with podcasting, uh, and knowing that there's so much more ahead, it's not the, it's not the final peak. There's so many more peaks, but, uh, it doesn't feel as hard as it was to grind to this area. And I think for,

 

The Dental A Team (13:46.043)

For me, I'm not quite to 40. I'm very close to one year behind Tiff. So that's kind of fun to talk about. But I've been looking and I think for me, the 40s feel very much like we said, mean, moving into motherhood feels very thrilling and daunting all at the same time. Like me morphing into that. I've wanted this for so long. You know that you've gone through the journey with me for so much of it. But like, how does that shift me as a CEO, as a friend? Like I've watched you put Brody ahead always and to

 

to have that fierce love come into my life is something that I'm so excited to, like more find in Jason's relationship even more. But also it's very much I'm looking at my 40s, there's so much health and I think you and I are both hitting health harder than we ever have. Just to make sure that the body I have that I've been gifted with really can help me have the life that I wanna have till I'm 90, till 100. We have this great vision of us, we're both in pink and blue. Tiff and I have this vision of I'm in pink, she's in blue.

 

Tiff's gonna be the cotton candy blue granny. I'm gonna be the cotton candy pink granny. We have like, I'm gonna totally have pink hair. Tiff's gonna have blue hair. We're like cruising. Tiff, I don't know if I've told you, like it's gotten a bigger vision. We're gonna be on the beach somewhere. I've already thought through this, because it was originally like jazzy with this, but we're gonna have this like freaking villa of like all the awesome people that we wanna be around that are in this amazing villa.

 

We're going to have a tour if we have to be in Jazzy's. It's only because they're fun. have NOS on them. Well, they have the like sand tires. Yes, 100 % sand tires. And then we're going to have our own like private like boat and yachts that like we can have this trail go to. We're going to have people that live there. Like it's going to be the most amazing place. I'm so excited about it. Like living just our best lives. This will be your tree space, Tiff. Yeah, thank you, Will. You found it. just like making sure that I take care of my body now and really putting an emphasis on that.

 

to be able to sustain. But also I think, like you said, no longer so much focus on me personally, but being able to give more. It's a weird shift, but who knows? Shoot, having kids, I probably will be like, Tiff, I lied. I lied about all this. I had these grandiose ideas on that mountain and like, screw it. It's like just pure survival. But really I think that there's like impact, health, and a continuing morphing. But I think that this is evolution of souls. Like this is evolution of business. This is evolution of owners.

 

The Dental A Team (16:04.989)

And I think if you're a new owner, just realize it does get better. True or false, Tiff? my gosh, true. I actually, it's funny that you say that because I have an email ready to go for a client call today and my client's been a practice owner for like, gosh, just over six months now. And one of the action items is like, help me feel less crazy, right? Like he's like turmoiling all the time. And I thought to myself, as I was reading it this morning,

 

I was like, bro, it's not happening yet. Like you just got to sit tight and know that like that's where you're going to be for a hot minute. So, I feel like you said like the tens to the twenties to the thirties, right? And I felt like the twenties for me was like infancy again. Like the twenties was like, even infancies. I think twenties for me was like that two years to two years old to five years old age where you're just like, not sure how to be or how to act or how to communicate yet.

 

but you're trying everything and you're running as fast as you can and climbing things before somebody catches you. Yeah. And like asking for forgiveness, not remitting. I feel like that was my 20s. It's just like, what can I do? What can I get into? Like, how can I just be my most wild self? Yeah. have to like live wild and Well, it was like, how do I test the waters of being an adult? And how do I navigate this adult world and figure out what's okay and what's not? I kind of felt like that was my 20s and my 30s was like, okay.

 

Now I'm going to dial in who I am, but like the reality is, it was still just like testing the waters and like 40 is like, I'm my most confident self today than I have ever been. And I feel more true and aligned with who I am today, even than I did a year ago. And so something like, I feel like it's like, we say we're in a cocoon all the time and I feel like that's, I honestly haven't even.

 

I feel so guilty. There's so many like friend events and things that I just have pieced out on in the last year and maybe even two years, but specifically the last year I have super recluse just like gone inwards and really dedicated and devoted to really figuring out what the important pieces of my life are. Not that these friend events aren't important pieces. It was just like noise. And I had to, I had to reduce some of the noise.

 

The Dental A Team (18:17.468)

And I can see and I can feel that in the next six months to be here, like that will start opening back up again. But I had to recluse in order to be able to like see more clearly. Yeah. And I actually think it was it was I don't know if it was duly induced or if we were separately on the same track. But I think both you and I.

 

hit a breaking spot last year where we both broke, which is odd because we were so confident, but I think we broke on the noise and really, I know you took an inward step, I took an inward step, and we both were like, all right, independently and connected too, which is really interesting to look back on, Tim. I didn't realize how almost like same track we were on, just independently. It just looked a little differently. It did, but I agreed with you. was like...

 

cut out the noise, figure out what's really important, what really makes me happy rather than what I've always thought made me happy. And I think like to relate this back to offices, I think that there becomes noise in business too. I think that there was noise in dental lighting. I think that we were growing, we were really like after a shining star. And I remember, it was an interesting moment where you told me, were like, here we like kind of lost our vision and not kind of like we straight up lost it. It was like almost thrown in the trash on accident.

 

We were just chasing something, but we forgot why we forgot what we were doing. We forgot the everything that like it's something funny. I remember I was on a walk and I called you and I said, tip. Why does it have to this hard? And you said, I don't know, but it feels freaking hard right now. And I think right after that is when we both like hunkered in, we went inside and I mean, people said like, why haven't you guys been on the road? Well, this is why this is why we had to figure it out.

 

But it's so beautiful on the other side of it. I think as practice owners realizing like there is time to be quiet, there is time to internally reflect. Like just because you're at the prime right now doesn't mean you're gonna stay in prime. We know that we're headed towards this prime area, but it's also gonna be something done with intentionality. We're very intentional with all the hires we make. We're very intentional with the moves we make in the business. And I think this is so parallel to business and life. Like business to me is such a spiritual personal gain that I think teaches us so much about who we are as people if we want to.

 

The Dental A Team (20:24.689)

But I've learned so much through it. It's kind of fun to but I also think like celebrate the next decades that we're going to celebrate the awesome things are headed to but I would say in the last probably like one if not two years I think as people we figured out who we were And as the business we figured out who the business was and maybe as I'm saying this Maybe the business is also reflect you as a person. my gosh. It totally does. It's just absolutely reflects both of us

 

We try not to be in turmoil at the same time. Yeah, but it does. It absolutely reflects this. I think as you were saying all this, Karen, I think it's so precious and valuable. There's a space there that I was thinking, gosh, actually like us both were like, gosh, we had to clear out the noise. I think every chapter. All the pause was the timing. Hold that one.

 

Okay, I think what happens we go inwards right we had to clear out the noise we did we went inwards personally, but I'm thinking like Okay, how does this really exist you believe business is going through your businesses are going through the same things just like our business Whatever the life cycle so I'm thinking gosh I wouldn't I went internal and I had to like clear out some of the noise and to decide intentionally where I was spending the energy and my time I think that's like

 

you are a new patient, narrowing down what procedures you want to do. Because I think when you start out, when you're an infancy and toddler and adolescence of being a dentist, you are doing everything. You're like, what can I grab at that's going to bring in the revenue and get me profitable? And you're just go, go, go, go, go, do, do, do, do. And you have to do that. You have to. That's like starting a business. the waters. So too, it's like, what do I want to do? You can't figure out what you like or want to do if you haven't tried it.

 

We can't decide what sport we're going to play when we're a kid if our parents didn't allow us to try them all. So that's a parenting tip. True. I'm listening. I'm taking notes. Don't push them into one. Let them try and let them decide on their own. That's my parenting plug. But I'm thinking, gosh, you're like.

 

The Dental A Team (22:30.095)

noise is I don't want to do root canals anymore. Like I don't want to do this thing anymore. I don't want to have a doctor that's like, I don't want freaking do any more fillings. I'm like, stop doing filling. Yeah. Like it's fine. But you're at, he's at the point now that he can't do that. And I think that's the clear out the noise when it comes to a dental practice is what is noise? when I, a year ago, but however long it's been now.

 

When I was like, I can't do this anymore. I literally felt like I couldn't think like it was so noisy. Nothing was making me happy. Everything was just like a sword being poked at me. Everything that happened was something and I was like, this is not my natural state of being. So in my mind, when I feel out of my natural state of being, when I feel like things are hard, when I feel like things are chasing me and I'm chasing a golden carrot.

 

I know something has to give and that's that's when I when I either slow down enough to like clear out the noise or a break and last year I broke um but I I had to break in order to the change but that's where it is at your practice too so if you're in your practice and you're like this sucks Kara like I'm

 

This sucks and I can't do this anymore. ready to sell it. Can I just sell this? like, you can, let's prep it. Always be prepared to sell. So then by time we get through with that, they're like, actually, I kind of like this. We just had to out the noise. So you just have to clear out the noise and dial it in. Normally, what I find and what we found, right, is that we had lost our vision. So we were chasing everything instead of looking to accomplish our mission and our mission and bringing in things that supported that. We were chasing all of the things. So was like every client.

 

That's what Tony.

 

The Dental A Team (24:20.818)

So it was like every client is the client. Like every client is the one that we want. Instead of being like, what is the client? What does the client look like that supports our mission? Who's here to help us support our mission? And who's here to like, just go through an operations manual, just buy the operations manual. That's being freaking fast. If you're here to support our mission, we want to support you. That's what we had to do. That's what we had to come back to. So it's just like that.

 

clarifying moment as we were talking, I'm like, actually, as we went inside, and as I morphed and changed and figured out what I needed to clear out this year, that's exactly what it is. Totally. And Jeff, I love that you brought that up because there is so much noise. And I think there was so much fear that held us there. There's no way I can stop doing this. Like I remember we thought like, if we don't say yes to every single client that comes through and dental team isn't like providing for all of them, we're failing the mission rather than like

 

A, we're never gonna be able to serve everyone we want to and we're building things to be able to serve. That's why we do the podcast. That's the way we're able to serve every person that wants to be a part of this. But I think like before you get to that breaking spot, which I think you and I both, we learned a good lesson.

 

realize that you can actually say no to those fillings. You can say no to the root canals. You can say no to these things. Tiff and I were like, we don't want to travel. And Tiff, like, let's do in-person events. And I was like, I don't want to do those. And I'm so grateful we did it because they've been some of the most incredible things in hearing the clients. You had a vision that I couldn't see. And I also would say to owner doctors, don't be afraid to let your team help you find that vision while you're going through it. Tiff had the vision. She saw where we needed to go. I couldn't see it. And so trusting that Tiff.

 

whether it's for like, was like, shoot, Tiff, if this is what you want to do, take it and run with it. But truly, I'm so proud of you and so grateful for you because you saw the vision when I was blind and I couldn't see it. And I think having trusted people in your life, but realizing your life, like I think we get to do this one time. And that's why I'm super excited for us to be going to this decade. That's why I wanted to do this podcast with you. I was like, sure, can I rift about our birthday on my own? Yes.

 

The Dental A Team (26:20.617)

But I'd love to talk about it I think we bring different perspectives of your business is just like your life. So when you look at and I think one of the bigger things that I started looking at was when I'm 90, 100, 110, 120, when I look back, what am I going to want to be at that point in my life? How am going to want to act? What are the things I'm going to be proud of? What are the things that I'm going to be like? That was my legacy. I realized I wanted to leave a legacy and I wanted to have impact.

 

And Tiff, I know that's right aligned with what you are and what you want. And I know there's spaces in your own world that you want to do. We talked about it. There's other things. And so really becoming those people we want to be that we're proud of. And your business is the same. Like, you go to sell your business, what do you want them to look like? What's the legacy? How do you want this to play out? And I think that helps you make decisions more clearly. So I think, like, as we wrap this all up, like, hey, Tiff, happy birthday. Like, I'm excited. I'm excited for the 40s together to see, like, what we become and how we do.

 

Also in business, clear out the noise tip. think that was one of most beautiful things, clear that noise out, really hunker down. Like if you're in the beginning, you're gonna be hustling. Like realize it's the hustle, the grind. But if you're later on, realize that you can make changes to make life happier and that's also okay. I believe we get one life and we get to make it the best or the worst. And it's kind of like a schedule, like our schedule's terrible. We're like, you made it that way. Like you have the choice to change that. I think it's the same with your life. Like this is your life. Yes, we're all dealt cards.

 

but we're the ones who ultimately get to paint the canvas of what we want it to be. And Tiff, just, love you in my life. I love sharing the business with you. I love creating with you because you push me and inspire me in ways other people don't and you get it. And it's beautiful to create canvases together simultaneously and independently and just be huge raving fans of each other. And just so grateful for, for the life that we've been able to go on this journey with. Yeah, I don't know. Like I can't even say it better. And I think that we've created something really incredible.

 

The ability to share it with other people has been so much fun. Bring more people onto the team that can get behind what two girls trying to figure it out created. And it's just been really fun. Everything is done with intentionality. I think something you said made me think like just ownership of your life, ownership of your business. And at the end of the day, what do you want people to say about you?

 

The Dental A Team (28:33.342)

when you saw your practice, what kind of a business owner were you? Because I think we've all walked into or you've purchased the practices where the teams aren't talking so great about the previous owner or the patients are like, thank goodness or whatever. Be that guy that people are like, wait, where did he go? I always had so much fun and I wanted to talk with him or whatever. What do want people to say when you're done with whatever this piece of your life is? What will it look like when you're gone and take ownership of that?

 

and take ownership of the power and control that you have over it. Totally. And I'll say, Tiff, like just the silver lining for everybody listening, if you're going through the suck that Tiff and I went through, it does not matter where you are on the business life cycle, this will always hit you. So just know it's going to be there. So I think one, be very intentional with where it is. And Tiff, when you and I got more intentional, there you go. You're welcome. We got more intentional. Hiring became easier. Yeah.

 

We stopped trying to be everything for everyone. Like me as a CEO, I was like, fine, people are going to talk about me. That's fine. This is who I'm going to be. And this is Kira. This is the version I want to be. And I feel like I stepped into a role that I had never owned. We started hiring people with a lot more ease. We started attracting clients with a lot more ease and things really got better. So I think if you're in that space of just like, don't know, close down the noise, get really intentional. Where do you want to go? Who do you want to be? What are the things you want to be known for? What are the things you want to do? Get that vision boxed in.

 

We brought our leadership team together. got four of us like dialed in of exactly what we want to be together. And it's wild that in six short months from that first meeting to shoot, we're six months from that meeting. The ease and the flow that has come has been something that I can't even explain. It's magic. So go in, if we can help you out, if you're like, my gosh, guys, I'm living your life, call us. We don't just say that we need, we're here to consult you. are truly, we've been there, we've done successfully and we want to help you. So reach out, hello at thedentalateam.com.

 

Thanks for Rifton, happy birthday to us, happy birthday to all the maids, people out there. It's a national holiday, so I hope you go turn on some pink and blue lights on your house, wherever you are, celebrate Tiff and I, and Tiff, thanks for just being in my life. I just truly love and adore you, and it was really fun and special to do this. I agree, thank you for setting it up, and thank you for making it my life. Yeah. I'm proud of you. And for all of you listening, thank you for listening, and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

 

Tiff and Dana talk about a large trend happening in dental practices this year: last-minute cancellations, and why it’s such a stressor for the doctors. They share how to notice the signs of no-shows further in advance, plus ways to troubleshoot the problem.

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Transcript

Tiffanie (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to be here with you today. I have the one and only Dana here with me. Dana, we're still working on that dynamite. Dana is my favorite nickname, but we'll see what Kara decides sticks. So.

 

Thank you, Dana, for being here with me today. If you guys are watching this podcast, which I think is still a weird concept in my brain, Dana has the most incredible hair today. Dana, I'm always impressed with your lovely loc. So thanks for coming ready to go today. How are you?

 

Dana (00:34)

doing good. Thank you. If you only knew how little time it took me and that's why it's consistent because it takes me no time to get it to do this. I'm excited to be here anytime I get with you on this podcast tip is special time. So

 

Tiffanie (00:42)

I love it.

 

Thank you. Thank you. And I do enjoy our time together. I'm trying to make sure we get that one on one time a couple more times per month than just podcasting. So thanks for being patient with me on that. Dana, I get to pick your brain all the time. We have a really fun one coming up here in a second that I know everyone's going to be really excited for. But right now, I really want to pick your brain a lot on cancellations and the cost of cancellations to a general practice. I know in

 

My client base, what I have seen and tell me Dana what you're seeing as well. I have seen this year just like a wild bag of like, patients coming? Are they not coming? Are they canceling? What are the reasons? Like it just feels like a mixed bag of information. Since realistically, I would say it probably, I think it started trickling around November, but January, February was wild. Weather was wild.

 

And then now that we're getting into, you know, summery months, we're getting out of spring and into summer months here in May, it just still seems to be like trends are just kind of cycling around that same space. are you seeing that with your clients you're working with and friends in the industry that you're chatting with as well?

 

Dana (02:03)

Yeah, I feel like it is a weekly basis where it's like, okay, how are things going? Well, the schedule was full, right? It was looking great and it just seems to be falling apart. So a lot, a lot of last minute cancellations where it is really hard for the team to pivot and pivot quickly in those instances.

 

Tiffanie (02:09)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. And so on one hand, I want you guys out there, doctors, team members, office managers, those of you who are listening today, on one hand, if this is something that you guys are coming up against this year, I want you to know that right now in 2025, this has been a trend that we've noticed within the dental community as a whole. today we really want to talk about the cost of those cancellations. I think it's great for doctors to know that information.

 

A lot of doctors do, lot of owners already have that information, but I think it's great for team members and office managers to really know the cost of that as well so that we can see why are the doctors harping on us, not just because they don't have patients, but why is it so stressful to them? And doctors, why am I feeling this internal stress? And then I've also got some tips in here, Dana and I have gone through that are ways for you to know that there's a problem, start noticing it more in advance.

 

and then ways to troubleshoot those problems as well. So first and foremost, I think, Dana, the most important thing to remember is that we've got to make sure that we've got a solid plan and a solid action, actionable pieces as far as our goals. If we don't know our goals, if we don't know where we're heading, then...

 

Like, what are we even doing? Right? So as long as we, as long as we can keep a good heading on our goals. And I mean, by that, like, what is our monthly goal? What is our daily goal? And then always looking at what have we done? Where are we going? And what's that gap in between? If we're not watching that gap in between, we can fall into a really scary space. And then it's that last week of the month that we've all lived where the office manager is like, okay, guys, we just need $30,000 in addition this week. Who needs ortho?

 

right? And we're like, scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to get that money in. But it's because we haven't watched all month where those numbers are at. making sure that we're always looking at that, and we're always paying attention to those things is going to be massively important. Now, Dana, I know you have a lot of practices that are tracking this, that are they're watching these trends. As far as like dollar per hour kind of cost to the practice and what this actually looks like in conjunction to the goals.

 

What are you seeing with your practices right now and what do you suggest they really start to watch?

 

Dana (04:39)

Yeah, I think that it is one just like you said, tracking and making sure that they know how much is open schedule time impacting their production and their ability to get to their goals. How much you know, if their hygiene team isn't getting to their 30 % or hitting their daily goal, is it because they just didn't have a full schedule of patients because that is pretty crucial for them to get to that point. Daily goals are set up with full schedules in mind, especially if we use block scheduling to get to daily goal. If

 

our blocks aren't full, we're not gonna get there. So I think it is tracking to be able to look and say, how much is it impacting our production and what are we losing when we have a hole in our schedule? Because sometimes when we can attach a monetary value to that actual appointment, it becomes a little bit more important. When we see, if we know that every time a restorative appointment is open, that that costs us

 

$1,000 right or $900, right? Well, then we know how much that's going to impact our goal if we know that every time a Recare patient doesn't show up that equals $230 well, then we can sure be strategic about how we make that gap up

 

Tiffanie (05:40)

Yeah.

 

Dana (05:56)

later in the month or later in the week and sometimes too for team members it's like oh we only have one cancellation well one cancellation for every 17 days that you're open when you know what that value of that appointment is it really really

 

You can see how it's impacting. And so I would say take a look at your doll, you know, your production per hour on both sides so that you know, when I've got an hour open, it's costing the practice this much. When I've got an hour and a half open, it's costing the practice that much. And that's just the missed dentistry. That's not the costs of the practice just to be open for that hour, right? Like there's all of those fixed costs that extend into that too. And so getting a real picture of what each hour in our practice leads to

 

Tiffanie (06:25)

Good job.

 

Dana (06:41)

production and expenses can just be so eye-opening on its impact.

 

Tiffanie (06:48)

I totally agree.

 

I think the actual cost, like if you look at it and we're looking at our goals, that actual cost is what is your dollar per hour? So like Dana said, it could be anywhere between $500 to $1,500 an hour on a doctor's schedule. And then again, that $100 to $300 on a hygiene schedule just really depends on what your practice's goals are and what you guys are set out to achieve. So if you've got $1,200 between doctor and hygiene, we've got a goal of $1,200 per hour and you've got those openings on the schedule, that's what the cost is.

 

that data that we've done really really well and we've done differently this year with our current clients is really having them go through and track the number of open hours on each provider's schedule. So the reason that we do that is last year

 

I had a couple of doctors that were really, really close to, one of them was really close, he was about $30,000 away from hitting the goal that he wanted. Another one was like $20,000 away from exceeding where he thought he would be this year. And I was like, gosh, wow, how did we get so close, but we missed it by that much. So what I did was I sat down and I looked through the whole year and I tallied.

 

doctor, open hours, hygiene, open hours. So whether that was cancellations, the schedule fell apart, who knows, but it was just open hours that were on the schedule that could have been scheduled, meaning that was an open block, nothing was there. And both of those doctors would have far exceeded what they anticipated had those been filled. Now,

 

We like to say a variation rate of about 5%. If you're more than 5 to 8 % on the long end, like 8 % is high.

 

If you're more than that in cancellations, you're in hot water. So even if we deducted that five to 8 % from that math that I did, we still would have hit those goals. And so it really brought a lot of reality into the situation. Like you were saying, Dana, to really be able to see what that gap is and why it happened. And I had a practice just the other day, she did fantastic. This office manager, she had the information before we even went into the call. one of the doctors, one of the owner doctors was really, really intrigued on why are we

 

just why are we short in collections and by that he was looking at QuickBooks, right? So why is the bank short? So because when we look at their data, when we look at their collections and their production, just looking at those straight from Dentrix, they were above 100 % on collections. So the team is like, bro, like we're at 102%. Like, what do you mean? And he's like, yeah, but there's no money. Like there's not the overhead, right? So the overhead is hitting well,

 

The office manager knew that we were going into this conversation. She knew that he was going to ask these questions and that I wasn't going to have that immediate information. So prior to the call, she went through the whole first quarter of the year. And what she did was not only she took cancellations on one side, because that was an aspect of it, but another piece that she took was we've had a lot of call outs from hygiene and ⁓ vacation.

 

And surgery, was a surgery that, you know, quote unquote, she's on her vacation. So we had a lot of time that there wasn't a hygienist available to see patients. And when she tallied that it was literally that missing piece and his mind was just blown and he was like, my gosh, thank you. He just needed the satisfaction of knowing what it was, right. But the cost of not only cancellations, but that missed opportunity of hygiene because there had been hygienists ill, there had been hygienists on PTF.

 

as a hygienist that had to have shoulder surgery, these things come up and they happen, but we're not always anticipating them and our goals get missed. So these cancellation spots where patients are calling and they're like, gosh, I just can't come in are even more important.

 

because there are times where we can't, we can do something about that. We can fill an open spot on the schedule. I can't do hygiene if I don't have a hygienist, a licensed hygienist there to take that spot. So those different spaces really took a toll. the cost on the practice, right? The cost of the cancellations is the dollar per hour, but then on a grander scale, it's like, what did we miss out that month and that quarter? And how did it impact our overhead? Because this example, all three examples,

 

the doctors were like, why is my overhead so high? Where's my profitability? Why is this sucking? Especially when you feel like we're rolling along pretty well. It's like, where's the profitability? Where is it missing? That's the big toll. And then also I think, Dana, the stress, like, gosh, being a team member and then like inefficiencies that it creates, the stress of having to save a patient or

 

Dana (11:22)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Tiffanie (11:40)

having to talk somebody into coming last minutes, the stress of knowing that there's a cancellation there and Doc's gonna, know, Doc and manager or owner or whomever is gonna come ask me questions. Like Dana, you've been in that position too. And even maybe even from a hygienist standpoint, the stress of having openings, like that's a cost as well. What was that for you and your perception as a provider and a team member, but then also as a consultant, what are you seeing there as far as the cost on a practice with those cancellations from an emotional standpoint?

 

Dana (12:09)

Yeah, I I think is I do this definitely something that weighs heavily on you because I mean, I'm very goal oriented. And so if you put a goal in front of me, I'm going to want to tackle it. And so it is a little bit defeating in that way. And then it's like, okay, well, I would have to book patients out, right. And sometimes even further than when they were due, right, just to have my schedule fall apart. And it's like, man, like I could have seen those people that I had to look out a little bit farther. So it is a stressful on a patient care level is stressful on a

 

goals level it's stressful on like hey I'm here and like I want to do things that are of value to the practice so yeah it plays a burden on everyone and so it's just something that's so important to look at and to set a game plan for and to tackle as a team.

 

Tiffanie (12:58)

Yeah, I totally agree. totally agree. Now areas that we'll tackle some areas where you can tell there's an issue, like not only you see like, my gosh, I feel like there's a lot of cancellations happening, but really just being able to see what that what that entails. So I think one space is open schedule, obviously, right? Open schedule. I think frustrated team members, Dana, do you agree? Yeah.

 

Dana (13:23)

Yeah, yeah,

 

because it's so much more work on the back end to save something that's fallen off or to fill something than it is to just be really good at reappointing from the beginning and being really good at creating value from the beginning. Those things are much easier than this stress and the crunch time of after the fact.

 

Tiffanie (13:45)

Yeah, totally agree. So upset team members, like stressed out front office team members, upset doctors, empty schedule, seeing repeat offenders. So patients that are repeatedly coming off of the schedule seem to cancellations. And you guys, I want to tackle a little bit too on why.

 

why this happens. There's a few things and I mean, you guys are going to tell me and your team is going to tell me patients are sick and patients can't come in because of work. Like I totally hear you. I get that. I understand. But what it boils down to the root cause in my opinion is a lack of a lack of systems or a lack of systems follow through. So lack of consistency. So ⁓ handoffs and patient buy-in might not be there. Team buy-in might not be there. Scheduling rules. So how do we form

 

and build the right schedule. If we're consistently behind on patients appointments, or they're taking longer than we said they would, they're not getting sat on time, like if we're showing that we don't value our schedule because our scheduling template isn't working for us and it's running us behind, I don't like we're telling the patients our schedules don't matter. I'm not sure why we expect a different result. On the other side, we expect our patients to, you know,

 

really, really take into consideration the schedule and to make that a top priority, but we're not even doing that. So hard truth, I think there. ⁓ If you're having these issues, if you're running behind, you're seeing high cancellations and you feel frantic, it's typically a reflection of the schedule that you're running. Right, Dana, do you agree? Am I just in mean?

 

Dana (15:23)

100 %

 

I hands down took the words that I say all the time and I'm like honestly it comes down to a lack of value and that's really hard for offices to hear but it is a lack of value on the appointment itself right we've not created enough value for the patient to feel like this is something I cannot miss and we also haven't valued it enough to ensure that we've done that.

 

Tiffanie (15:42)

Yeah.

 

Dana (15:47)

to ensure that we followed our systems that we've worked really hard to put into place. And so maybe we don't value those systems or we don't see their value. And so it truly comes down to just a lack of value on both ends.

 

Tiffanie (15:58)

I absolutely agree. Yeah, yeah. And the patient's buy in comes from value, you guys, and it takes multiple times. So some of the systems I think, Dana, that we can we can pop through a couple of systems that really, I think, stand out and helping that. And I think one space to remember is that we want to attract and we want to keep the patients that we want. Not every practice is built for every

 

patient, every person. So some patients are not going to respond well, they're not going to care, they're always going to cancel or they're going to hop. You know, I used to work in a dental practice that it was a heavy retirement community and we had a lot of, them in Arizona snowbirds. And so we had a lot of winter visitors and they were just special hoppers. We would see somebody on, you know, one new patient special that we were running at the time and we'd never see them again or we'd see them three years later trying to use another special.

 

always going to happen. So work really hard and aim to create systems that work for the patients that you want to keep. Who's your patient avatar that you're trying to attract to your practice? What will they appreciate about your communication about your systems? And don't be afraid to lose some patience to make room for the patients that will appreciate the systems you're putting into place. So that's my caveat. And to create that value. really Dana, that word that you use

 

there is spot on because that's really what it's all about. We're creating value, which creates retention and we're, we're selling not only a product, a dental product, we're selling a filling, right, but we're also selling an emotional product of how are they feeling when they're in our practice and our systems boil down to create to

 

being there to create feelings, to evoke emotions in patients so that they do see the value in that product that you're selling. So handoffs, you guys might hear this constantly. If you've ever listened to any podcast, NDTR, if you ever want to hear Dana and I talk about it, there's probably about 50. So go type in NDTR, Next Visit Date, Time, Recare. It's literally the perfect handoff situation. It's something we've used for years. It was something that and I trialed many years ago.

 

And it's worked so well in so many practices to turn around case acceptance, to turn around scheduling, and to really just turn around communication between front and back office that we continue to harp on it. So go type in NDTR on our website, TheDentalATeam.com. When you go to podcasts, you can search NDTR.

 

⁓ And I think treatment planning in general. So making sure those handoffs are right, treatment planning. And I think Dana too, like I stress to practices to treat re-care appointments very similarly. Like it's so easy to get into that routine of like, okay, let's just, let's schedule your next six months real quick. We'll pop it on the schedule. You can let me know as it gets in or, don't worry, they're scheduled. And it's like, we haven't built any value.

 

In my, we built the value of the appointment hygienist, like the value that you have built during that appointment 100%, but that patient has to remember to evoke that feeling in six months from now to keep that appointment on the schedule. So how are we building and creating that value for those appointments even thereafter? So Dana, like NDTR.

 

treatment planning, and then how do you suggest and how did you maybe even as a hygienist build that value for those re-care appointments when they're coming three, four, six months later?

 

Dana (19:25)

Yeah, I see it all the time. And I do think NDTR builds in some value in that and I've been getting a lot of doctors question like, hey, why do I have to ask about their re care? Right? Well, that is that is your chance to build value as the doctor that not only do I need to see you for that treatment, but it's super important to me as the doctor to see you in six months or whatever your regimented cleaning time is. So there is that but then I would use this as a hygienist myself every single patient before I scheduled.

 

Tiffanie (19:47)

Yep.

 

Dana (19:55)

They were given a reason why I needed to see them back. Right? So even my regular six months, and I learned this from an amazing coach, right? So I'm not even going to take credit for it, but it's something that like I did routinely that I instill in all of my hygiene teams that I work with. And that is every patient has to leave with a reason to return. Even if that is, my gosh, Mr. Smith, seeing you every six months has kept you looking so good. We need to make sure we keep that up.

 

Tiffanie (20:01)

⁓ I that.

 

Thank

 

Dana (20:25)

Let's get your next six month appointment scheduled. Even if Mr. Smith has zero issues, concerns, anything, right? Then my people with concerns, that's even more so. All right, so I need you to work on that flossing technique. We did have a fair amount of bleeding this time. My goal for you the next time you come in six months is you've been able to really target that in and we've got that bleeding reduced. I can't wait to see you in six months to check on it.

 

Tiffanie (20:27)

Beautiful.

 

Dana (20:49)

Right, so when giving them it's not just like let's get your routine appointment scheduled No, there is a reason why every single patient needs to be back in my chair at the recommended interval and

 

Sometimes too we would put little notes and it helped the front office, right? Hey, I know Dana really wanted to keep you on that six months She said you were looking so good last time. Is there any way we can make today work, right? So it was in my auto note I always put it in there and help the front office then they gave them the reason right? Hey, don't forget Dana wanted to check those bleeding points. How's that flossing going? Let's get you in today Let's make sure you're here so she can double check on that so it's something that I have used religiously and that I feel like truly does because

 

we do see that hygiene appointments, right? That's where a lot of the cancellations happen and that's because it's just the routine cleaning, right? Or the routine preventive. And so building that value in hygiene and you can do it with something so simple as just something you need to check on the next time that they're there.

 

Tiffanie (21:48)

Yeah, my gosh, Dana, was stop the podcast. That was all they needed. It's brilliant. Thank you. I love that. So I think that in itself is huge because that that went into the confirmations that went into saving the appointments and the pre scheduling. So I think that was huge, Dana, that little nugget was more than we could have ever asked for. Thank you.

 

Thank you. So, systems, guys, NDTR, go look it up, treatment planning. I love this idea of making sure every patient, whether they're coming in on doctor's schedule, whether they're coming in on hygiene schedule, they have a reason to come back. And remember, I mean, gosh, it makes perfect sense because...

 

your patients are coming back on your your dental schedule and your doctor's schedule because they have a reason because they have decay, broken tooth, missing tooth, whatever the case may be. So find that reason for their re care as well. And I love that you pointed out even the healthy patients you were like, let's keep this up. Let's keep that going. I can say I had my eye exam the other day and he was fantastic. And he was like, gosh, yeah, it hasn't changed a lot from last like he was just bringing up so much information from the last time and like can't wait to see it again next time. I was like, wow, this guy actually in a very short amount of time, I think I spent

 

five minutes with the man, ⁓ massive amounts of trust build and value. I truly will not go to another eye doctor as long as I can go to him. So just building that value, doesn't have to take a long time.

 

It just has to be massive amounts of value. So make sure you're under TR treatment planning, make sure there's a reason for them coming back. They're always scheduled to come back. Confirmations are in place and make sure that you're tracking your cancellation rates, you guys, and really seeing what the impact on the business is and sharing that with your team so that everyone's super aware. This awareness is meant to bring light to trends.

 

It is not meant to be a you guys suck, this is where we're at. It's a hey, this result sucks. Why is this happening? Let's look at our systems. I tell my teams all the time and I think Dana, you do too. I don't want you doing something that's not working. That is such a waste of time and I...

 

would gouge my own eyes out, I could not. There's no way I could live life like that. I did not expect other people to as well. So when we track these metrics, when we're looking at these trends, my goal is to ensure that we're only doing things that are getting the right results. And when we're not getting the results we want, we change the system because it's clearly not working. And when a team knows that that's

 

what we're looking for. I'm not looking at you that you suck unless you literally refuse to use the system. I'm not looking at you. I'm looking at the system. The system and the results are what we're tackling. We're not tackling people. We're never tackling each other. So

 

Dana (24:24)

Thank

 

Tiffanie (24:34)

Go into it that way. Track those cancellations. Look at the real cost to the business and then look at the systems that you have in place. Are you adding enough value to those appointments through your handoffs, through your treatment planning, through your discussions on why they need to come back and then through your confirmations. Are your confirmations working? we lax it easy asking and are we keeping a good schedule? Huge, huge. You will get back.

 

what you give. So make sure that what you're giving is freaking excellent. And Dana, thank you so much. That was a wonderful podcast. That was so many amazing nuggets. You guys go back, listen again, take notes. I'm telling you, Dana's brain, I always get something new out of it. Years and years later, consulting side by side, you still just always drop something on me that I'm like, dang, all my practices need to hear that. So Dana, thank you for being here with me today.

 

Dana (25:29)

Yeah, thanks for having me as always.

 

Tiffanie (25:31)

Of course, you know, I'll steal you anytime I can get you. So awesome, everyone. Go listen, take notes, go do the things, start tracking your cancellations, look at those systems and really start seeing the cost and the value that you're perceiving. Okay. Any questions?

 

Reach out to us, [email protected], if you need checkers, if you need more information on any of the things that we talked about, if you're interested in learning how to have someone like Dana give you amazing tips like that all the time, just off the cuff, please reach out. We are here for you guys. [email protected]. You can reach us.

 

on our website www.TheDentalATeam.com. We make it really, really easy for you guys. So reach out to us and drop us a five star review. We want to hear how amazing you thought Dana's nuggets were today. Thank you all. We'll catch you next time.

 

A lot of practices are concerned about keeping their team members on board right now. In this episode, Kiera lays out 3 effective ways to create a workplace that employees want to show up to, leading to a happier office crew and happier patients.

Episode resources:

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Transcript

Kiera Dent (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera, and I hope that you're just having the best day of your life. I hope that you are just truly, truly, truly remembering why you're even doing this. I hope you have a strong why. I hope you have a strong commitment. I hope you have just the best honest day-to-day. Dental A Team's purpose is to truly make your life better, to make running a dental practice easier, because I don't believe that being successful and profitable has to be hard.

 

I don't believe that having like great patients and great teams has to be a hard journey. So our job is to give you tactical tips that are able to implement immediately and make your life and your job even easier. Today, I wanted to pump you guys up because I believe that stronger teams, happier practice, this is where we're at. How do you actually boost team morale and job satisfaction? This is something that I feel is super common right now. People are like, Kiera, how do I get more team members to stay? And we just had an in-person.

 

event where doctors, we had doctors and leadership, so office managers there, and the doctor like, please just tell us like, what do you want? We will try our best to do this for you. And so the reality is a happy team leads to truly a thriving practice. And I don't believe that happy means you have to give everything to them. And so really how do we create a work environment where your team loves to show up every single day? This truly impacts patient care.

 

It impacts efficiency. It impacts the practice success. And so really I'm going to give you guys three of the most effective strategies that I've seen with hundreds of practices to truly boost job satisfaction today. You guys, we are the dental team. We are the experts and dentists and team training. We love to do this. We love to help you in your practice. And the reality is we have been able to help within our consulting, boost team morale, boost doctor morale, which ultimately leads to greater patient satisfaction and happiness.

 

So today, number one, it was interesting. were like, literally at this event, we were listing off all these things and asking the team members and the doctors were like, my gosh, like, just tell us. And one of the office managers raised her hand and she said, you know, a lot of these things are important. But the number one thing that's important to me is when my doctor says, hey, you did a great job. And I like, there it is again. Like it shows up constantly of creating a culture of recognition and appreciation and

 

when team members feel valued, I remember like the best thing my doctor could have told me was, Keri, like you did it, you like crushed it today. Like, I'm so grateful for you as my assistant. And I think like, we think that that doesn't matter, but when it's genuine and sincere, this is what our team members are craving. And so figure out a way where you can like recognize your team members, figure out a way where you have peer to peer, so it's not just leaning on you doctors. So office managers looking for this.

 

And then having personalized appreciation. And this is something where I really emphasize this heavy in our company, in our team, in our culture. So for example, you guys have heard me probably talk a million times about our morning huddle structure, where every Wednesday is core value shout out and every team member, it's kind of like popcorn. So if I'm going to start today, I'm going to shout out a team member for one of our core values. And then I choose that team member and then they'll shout someone else out. And even if like it's someone else, then great, no problem. We're just going to make sure that every person

 

shout someone out and it doesn't matter who got shout outs. But what the goal is, is that peer to peer recognition where we're looking for each other's strengths, we're looking for each other's greatness, We're looking to elevate and celebrate one another. We have every Friday 5 where we highlight different team members of great things that they've done, things that have gone really well. And I will tell you, this is one of the greatest ways to foster a great culture. And then other things that you can do is on you can personally

 

Shout out team members of what they're doing well and highlight them But really being genuine and I know some doctors like really struggle with this I even had a doctor who had like 17 members and they had seven little rocks in one pocket and Every time they would compliment a team member. They'd move one rock to one pocket So by the end of the day all seven rocks had to move for giving them appreciation I had another doctor who put an alarm on their phone to just

 

say thank you to their team members. And I know this feels so silly, but literally we had a team of doctors and a team of office managers all in a room and consistently they all said that feeling valued and appreciated was the number 1 thing. it didn't matter about the money. Of course these things need to be there. But truly, if you just create a simple recognition plan and start acknowledging your team members this week, I know that this will be a great way to boost that team morale and keep team retention.

 

So number two is going to be investing in growth and development. So different things, think team members love to know what is like my progression within my workplace. How can I grow? How can I get to the next level? How can I be like, what's this? And so we love to have tier programs for every single position within the practice. We share this with our clients where it's like, what does a dental assistant from here to here to here? What's that expectation of the skillset? Also, what's the growth potential financially? And so this way it's like, how can I grow?

 

Also within Dental A Team, offer, I have an X amount of dollars for continuing education for all of my team members that they can use every single year to learn other things. And it can even be things like if they want to learn about investing or they want to learn about budgeting and they want to take a Dave Ramsey course, that's totally fine because I want to invest in them as people and in professionals. And so how can we actually help them know like within their career, how they can grow in advance, but also then within their life, how can they grow in advance?

 

You know, Dental A Tetam, have done this and Britt and I have gone back and forth of, we want to like share dollar amounts? We not like there's pros and cons around it. But what I do like is the growth trajectory of what do these positions need to be? And it's something where I felt we were clear and I found out from our team, weren't as clear. so find ways for you to help your team know how to grow and advance within the practice. and then guess what? They'll tap out. There will be a tap out phase of every position and that's okay. At least they know that.

 

the expectations are not missed. And then that's when we start to provide CE for life, CE for these other things. And what I've seen is when offices invest in growth and development within their teams, it reenergizes them. think consulting is a great way for you to reenergize your team. And what we see is we usually see a 10 to 30 % increase in production just with coming into a practice, just with helping them, because the whole team now is super excited. They're all on board and we've literally been able to grow them.

 

And so I think this is a great thing within your one-on-ones. Find out what things are interested in, find out, roll out these tiers for every position so it's super crystal clear with each team member. And then within their one-on-ones monthly, within their evaluations, you're able to help them just see their growth and development. And I know teams really do care about that. Then there of course is going to be the piece of step three will be two things. So it's gonna like, there's one of communication and team bonding, honestly having it be a fun place to work.

 

So things that they get excited about, and I usually break this up by quarters, because there's four departments in a practice. We've got our doctors, front office, dental assistants, and hygienists. And if I put all those together, there's one group per quarter. Give them a budget, and we just build up this incredible space where we actually have fun as a team together. We go hang out. We do paint and wine nights. We go to sports games together. We go on a cruise. We go to the movies together. We go to a movie launch. I don't care what it is. And when all the different departments have to plan it, then guess what? We all show up for each other.

 

But having something that's just really fun. also think like potluck lunches can be an easy thing. can have, there's just like so many things you can do as a team. You can have a date night. can have, there's just finding ways to connect beyond work is going to be a really great way of just fun. Like I know so many team members watch other offices on social media and they're that office just looks like they're having a ton of fun all the time. And a lot of them really are. And so it's like, how can we actually have so much fun together as a team? We want to make sure that we are

 

teammates and my husband was talking to me, he works in the hospital and he works with a pretty large team and they said that our teams are becoming a lot of what communities used to be. Communities used to be like where you lived would be about like your politics and your religion and all these other things in your support system and your friends and work is now becoming that. And so finding ways to connect.

 

even as human beings, I think is a really, really great way to just have it be a fun place. And that doesn't mean you have to spend a lot of money. It could just be getting creative where we remember we're people in addition to being coworkers. And then of course, I will just say like a fourth bonus tip is going to be making sure that we are compensating our team appropriately and that our benefits are where they need to be. Even if you don't offer healthcare, you can offer a health stipend for like gym memberships or wellness. You can offer like a half day on certain days of the month, but

 

Getting feedback in a positive way, I think there's been some ways to have it negative, but figuring out what really is super important to your team is going to be great ways for you to just truly boost this team morale, boost this connection. And so really what we wanted to highlight is number one, the number one thing, like literally, I just did this like a couple of weeks ago. It is the recognition and appreciation. Number two is growth and development. Three is strength and communication and team bonding. And four is going to be making sure that you are compensating your team.

 

where you are adequate to where they're not stressed and you're able to have that. But I really think in that growth section, showing them the tiers, you've actually helped foster that as well. So this is where you can actually get like positive team culture. takes time. Culture is not something that's built overnight. Culture is not something that you just show up. It usually is quite a long turn, but it is undue dividends. And the reality is you've got to be able to create this thriving team culture. Otherwise you're going to be dealing with constant turnover.

 

constant chaos and that is not a fun space to be. So if you want some help, if you want to create that thriving team culture, DM us or visit our website and we will truly help you out. We've got some tips for you. I'm happy to share shout out jar pieces for you. I'm happy to share Friday five examples for you. I'm happy to share one-on-ones, tiers, whatever we can do to support you, DM us and ask for that or email us [email protected].

 

Truly subscribe to our podcast or our newsletter for more leadership strategies and tips and honestly share this with another office that you know could help, another team member that this could help because this is truly what the Dental A Team does. You're obsessed with this and if you are ready to boost your morale, build a higher performing team, reach out. Now is your time. This is not something that's hard. It can definitely be easy. It's something that we're obsessed with. Three simple tips and we would love to help you in any way we can. As always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

 

Today’s case acceptance focus is all about presenting the treatment plan and sequencing. Kiera shares language to use and the kind of confidence to adopt when discussing game plans with patients, and why it will stop objections in their tracks nine times out of ten.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team Listeners, this is Kiera and I am so excited to welcome you back to part two of Treatment Planning Masters, increasing that case acceptance, getting you guys into the tactical, but you better believe if you have not listened to part one, get your booties back to part one and go listen, because if you don't fix your mindset, if you don't work on those items, everything I teach you today is going to be a little bit better for you. I promise you it will be a little bit better for you, but the real secret sauce to treatment planning is the words that you speak.

 

Words create worlds, you guys, and the words you're saying and how you're saying it how you're presenting it and the sequence you're doing is ultimately impacting your yeses, your nos, your full schedules or your not full schedules, helping you realize full case acceptance versus partial case acceptance. It's all within mindset. And I have literally a hundred percent done this for so many offices. So I can sit here confidently telling you, guys, you've got to do that. So if you're new to the podcast, welcome. I promise I don't usually start podcasts out this way. I usually tell you,

 

I hope you're freaking loving your day today. I hope you're having the best day and I hope you remember we are truly so blessed to work in dentistry. Dental A Team's mission is to positively impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible and we do that through expert consulting for dentists and teams. Honest to goodness, I can say very confidently that Dental A Team consulting is second to none. We are truly experts. We drive production. We drive overhead down. We drive teams to be incredible leaders and we do it in such a freaking fun, positive, easy way.

 

We help doctors get the lives of their dreams. Yes, you have to show up. I can't just do it for you, but I can promise you that Dental A Team Consultants are truly people that have passion, that have grit, that have solutions. And it is so fun to hear client success story after client success story after client success story, increasing their production to numbers they never thought that they could do, decreasing their overhead, having dream their vacation homes being built when they didn't even know how to take home a paycheck.

 

Just the life, the business, the teams, team members telling us that we have literally changed their lives, that we've helped them financially, that we've helped them personally, that we've helped them help more patients. This is why Dental A Team exists. This is what our mission is. And I hope that we can help you in your practice. If it ever resonates with you, I hope it does. DM us. We're on Instagram, Dental A Team. Also pop onto our website, TheDentalATeam.com. Click on a call. I'm happy to do a...

 

a complimentary practice assessment where we actually look at your whole practice and I'll kind of help you see the gaps and our team will help you see where are kind of the areas within your practice that you can exponentially improve. We have six proven areas that we know if you will tackle those six areas, you will truly find success with ease. And it's something where it's not hard. The secret to success is not hard. It's simple little changes, but being consistent and staying accountable. And I think our team does it.

 

in such a fun way. add the confetti, we add the sprinkles, we make you giggle. I have a client and we are always giggling and we have expanded him to multiple, multiple, multiple growth beyond anything this client could ever could imagine. And we do it with giggles and ease because honestly, business is a fun, it's a fun game if you allow it. So reach out if any of that resonates with you. I'd love to have you be a part of our Dental A Team family. I'd love to help you.

 

Live the life you deserve and to live the life of your dreams and get there even easier So with that here's part two of case acceptance treatment planning. Like I said, here's a tactical so I've got you're in the right mindset We're not planting weeds in our flower garden. If you have no clue what I'm talking about go listen to part one And if you are ready, you're like, okay care. I've got the mindset. I was practicing it all day yesterday and Like crazy it just happened patients are saying yes to me like Wow

 

What do you say? next up is going to be, all right, so now a patient has come. I am in the right mindset. This is going to be, doctors, I need you to be freaking comprehensive. Do not use little league words for major league problems. Tell them what's really going on and have confidence and let's use the terms of the great news is we're going to be able to get you healthy. I strongly encourage you doctors to use our NDTR, proven handoff. Tell them the next visit, the date to return, ND.

 

So next visit, date to return, T is how much time, and R stands for recall being scheduled. If you will follow that, I promise you, you are going to cut down half of the objections that your patients will have, and you're going to actually get them into the right frame of mind. So if you will do that, now treatment coordinators, we pick this up. So first steps first, I'm in the right mindset. Now I'm going to say, my gosh, Sarah, it's so great to see you. Dr. Taylor is absolutely incredible. You are in such good hands with Dr. Taylor. I know Dr. Taylor gave you a treatment plan.

 

we're going to get that taken care of. Let's get you scheduled. Dr. Taylor is super busy, so let's make sure we get that done. I've got Monday or Wednesday, one o'clock or two o'clock, which works best for you. Now you might be like, Kiera, what the heck? You didn't even present the treatment plan. You are right. Gold star. You figured it out. This is a subtle shift that will help you exponentially. And it's crazy. I just did this with the team and the team was like, are not going to like that. And there was one team member who piped up and was like, I actually do this and it works so well now.

 

Fun fact that team member is the one who's closing the 30 40 $50,000 cases So, you know just brush my shoulders off this works and this works for very large cases So all your poo pooing. Oh my gosh care. This isn't gonna work. Please I just encourage you you're listening to this and doctors give this to your teams and doctors listen to this as well because Doctors this I think is a little like seat

 

The secret to your success, one, you gotta be diagnosing as much as we need you to. So if you wanna be producing 100 grand a month, you've got to be diagnosing at least $300,000 a month. So I need you to diagnose, because if you're not diagnosing enough, no matter how great your treatment coordinator is, no matter how much we teach them, we don't have enough to fill your schedule to the schedule you want it to be. So doctors, we need you to diagnose and please do not ever over-diagnose. I know you're ethical. I know you're not looking for treatment that's not necessary.

 

but I do know that sometimes you might be so busy or sometimes you might be like, I don't really want to talk here. like, gosh, like I told her like the last seven times. Well, guess what? Maybe the eighth time she needs to hear it. Maybe she's ready to hear it. And also doctors work with your hygiene team. So they're teeing it up. You are the second person to tell this, not the first person to tell that doctors that will help you a ton. We have other podcasts on helping hygiene teams, T up treatment. So doctors, if you need that also utilizing AI software can really help you out if you're struggling to diagnose.

 

I think that these are some great investments that you could make if you're struggling to diagnose. So next thing is treatment coordinators, high five, it's your turn. Doctors done an incredible job. They teed it up. You go to schedule first. I've got Monday or Wednesday and you're like, but Kiera, they're going to be like, well, what does it cost? Well, A, stop thinking that and B, we're going to say amazing, Sarah. I am definitely going to go over that with you. I want to make sure we get you scheduled. That way we get this into Dr. Taylor's schedule because he's so busy.

 

Monday or Wednesday, which works best for you? And then we'll definitely talk about all that. I want you to be rock solid confident, which works best for you Monday or Wednesday? I've answered their questions. I've told them we're gonna talk about it. But what happens here that I really wanna highlight is you are putting the emphasis on we are doing treatment and the question is not, we doing treatment or are we not doing treatment? AKA when I present a treatment plan to you and I'm focused on that as number one, what I'm telling the patient is treatment is optional if you can afford it.

 

When I schedule them, what I'm saying is we're doing treatment and the question is, how are we going to pay for this? Those are the things that we have options for, not are we doing treatment or not? Because like I told you on the last podcast, I'm like, I will tell you forever, if a doctor diagnoses it and I believe that they are incredible dentists, my job is to schedule it as a treatment coordinator. No ifs, ands, or buts, I don't care. There are solutions. Remember, Cure is mantra. Everyone says yes, and there is always a solution and we will find it. So, Edify the Doctor.

 

Schedule first. I promise you if you will just do this one shift in the tactical, this is the 20 % now we're not in the 80 % psychology. We are now in the 20 % tactical. You will start to have more cases to close. 100 % this is going to be for you. So after we do that, then I'm gonna present the treatment plan and there is a sequence to presenting a treatment plan. If you even think about talking about insurance first, it's because you're afraid of numbers. It's because you're afraid that patients are going to say no to you. It's because you think insurance is the most important thing and it's not.

 

Insurance is just a coupon. Do not crutch on insurance. Stop it, because insurance does not matter unless you make it matter. So I present a treatment plan. I'm like, awesome. So Dr. Taylor, we presented this treatment. This is what we're going to be doing. Here's the total out of pocket for the treatment. This is what our insurance estimated payment is. This will be your total when I see you on Wednesday. Or if your practice does a deposit, it would be like, this is your total.

 

And today we're going to collect our 10%. So that'll be 421. I can do cash or card, which do you prefer? Do you feel my confidence? Do you feel this is what we're doing? This patient's like, my gosh, this is what I'm doing. I'm not talking this patient into it. The doctor diagnosed it. You're the one who got yourself into this opportunity. And now my job is to help you. If the patient has an objection, remember I said, do not freaking plant weeds in your flower garden. If the patient has an objection of like, hey, like, do have any payment options? They will ask you.

 

Now I will give you like if you want to have a little bit of a say, you can say, what questions do you have for me? I want you to be rock solid confident moving forward. You can also say, this is the total. Do you have savings or would you like to talk about third party financing? I would strongly encourage you not to use those last two until you try this one for about four weeks until you get like out of your awkwardness because all it is is just uncomfortable and you're so scared these people are gonna break up with you and they're not. They're not, they're just thinking about it.

 

But Notice I'm like, I've got Monday or Wednesday, which do you prefer? I can do cash or card, which do you prefer? I'm putting my focus on the right question. I'm not saying, do you want to do dentistry today? Yes or no? I'm not saying like, do you have money for this? Because if you don't like, okay, I'm scheduling you. I'm assuming the yes. I'm assuming this patient's going to take on. I am assuming that they are going to do treatment. Why would I assume otherwise? My thoughts create my reality. So why am I even going to think a thought of like,

 

they might say no. Great, if they say no, it's an opportunity for me. High five. And then I'm going to be silent. And so now objections to me, when I have objections and I promise you I'd give you objection know how today, the objections, because you're like, Kiera, tell us the objections. Like, this is where it's so hard. And I'll tell you, no, no, no. Everything above that will cut most of your objections. I hope you heard that. Everything above that from your psychology to the words you say, to the way you present treatment plans, to the way you schedule.

 

all of that will actually prevent 90 % of your objections. And then you just got to get good on those 10%. And for me, it's not an objection, it's an opportunity. So again, notice, I'm like, it's not an objection, it's just an opportunity for me. And when I look at an objection, I know that I just need to educate this patient more. They're just unsure. Now there are 10 % of patients, maybe 5%, that truly do need to talk to their spouses. And I'm not here to minimize that, but 95%, that's just to like, push back.

 

They aren't confident on something and your job is to figure that out. So whatever it is, I've got solutions for spouse, for work, for money, for time, for pain, for overwhelming, for deposit, you name it. I have literally not gotten an objection that someone has given me that I'm like, great, you've stumped me. I don't know what to do. No, there's always a solution and we will find it together. So what we'll do is for this, every objection, we validate them first. So let's say it's like, hey, Kara, I need to talk to my spouse before I can make this decision.

 

What I'm gonna say is, my gosh, Sarah, absolutely. I 100 % want you to talk to your spouse. I want you to be so confident moving forward. What questions do think your spouse is gonna have? That way I can prep you with those answers before you talk with them. What this does is Sarah is now going to tell me what her real problem is hidden behind the barrier of their spouse. Truth, she's going to. It happens every time. They'll be like, they're gonna be wondering about money or they're gonna be wondering how long will this work or they're gonna be wondering about how much time this will take.

 

Well, if I've done a really great handoff, it should never be time. It should be, they know when they need to come back and they know what they need to come back for. So then she's just gonna let me know and be like, my gosh, yeah, we can talk about payment options. Like, what were you kind of thinking? What's a ballpark? Do you have savings for this? And then I'm gonna present two options for financing. So care credit, CHERI, Proceed, Sunbit, like you name it. There's a ton of them out there. Whatever works best for your practice. 401k for bigger treatment plans. You can take out lots of different things.

 

There's so many things you can get a loan from the bank. That's now like, let's just get creative and work together and figure out what solution is gonna work for this patient. But for spouse, that's what I'm gonna say. When it comes to work, I'm gonna be like, my gosh, and notice you have to pay attention to the words I say, because the way I say it will influence it and you'll either get a yes or a no. So if they're like, Kiera, I gotta check my work schedule. I'm like, Sarah, my gosh, of course. Let's pop you in the schedule. I've got you on this date. That way I, Kiera, did see Kiera over here. Truth be told, I will freaking forget about you, because I've got so many patients.

 

I say, I would hate to forget about you and let you slip through the cracks. So this is just a reminder for me not to let you slip through the cracks. When you get to work, let me know if we need to move it, not a problem. Just give me a quick call. Sarah's like, absolutely. I don't want you to freaking forget about me. I'm so important. That's what Sarah's thinking. But if you say, Sarah, I would hate for you to forget, Sarah's like, I'm not gonna forget. So you've got to be careful of how you do that. So that's how we're gonna get around work. If it's money, we'd hide back to what they value. It will never be cheaper or more predictable than it is today.

 

Money, there's always a solution. This is how we're gonna get cosmetic function, cost, longevity, all those. can tie it back to any of those things. All of those things are going to help out. And so we just need to make sure that we're tying it back to their motivator. We tie it back to their worth it. We figure out like, all right, let's talk about what are some solutions that you have? What are some things? Again, I don't have to solve all their problems. What solutions do you have? What things can we figure out? Let's find a solution together. So tying it back. Time.

 

This should be coming through with the handoffs. There should not be an issue with time. It should be two hours. Hey, let's get you scheduled. They know the time if we've got great handoffs. It's very easy and or in scheduling, we've already handled that. So that shouldn't even be an objection for you anymore. Pain, the recovery time. We're honest with them. Like our goal is to not have you in hardly any pain. So most patients experience X, Y, Z. I promise you Dr. Taylor is incredible. I'm going to edify my doctor again. You are in incredible hands.

 

If I was in your shoes, I would feel very confident moving forward. You might be in a little bit of pain. Great news is our mouths are very fast healers. And so you should be in and out of pain pretty quickly. Being confident. Overwhelming, we've given them too much information. If you present it simply and you are not giving solutions to problems they didn't even think they had, you will not overwhelm your patient. I promise you. Because we keep it simple. We speak in simple terms. We don't have hard jargon for them. We're not speaking in like,

 

my gosh, and then there's a bone and then doctors, this is for you too. Stop overwhelming your patients with like, okay, and then we can do your bite and then we could do this and like, and then we can do a sinus lift on you. Stop. Make that treatment plan so simple for them so that way they feel confident moving forward. The enemy to execution is overwhelm and confusion. So make it simple so that way they don't feel that way. And same thing for treatment coordinators. And then deposit. This is what it is. I can do cash or card. What do you prefer? And like, I love my credit card at home.

 

Okay, alligator arms, we can either like you could do Zell, Venmo, like check with your account to see if there's ways that we could fix that. But also on that, be like, no problem. What time do think you'll be home? I'll give you a call and you can just give me that card over the phone. And then mark it down and call them. Every single objection has an answer. It has an answer. You just need to be willing to be scrappy and to find the solution.

 

So today I've walked you through the tactical of how we present the treatment plan, how we do the sequencing. There's a lot of other layers to this, but hopefully I gave you enough to go get started. And the reality is you might think you're doing this, but I promise you, you're missing something or it's one word you're not saying, or it's one little change. And that's why I love treatment planning because it's so, once you find that one little thing and you track your progress and you look back and you're like, all right, why didn't this one close? What did I say? Review it back, listen to it back.

 

you will then unlock being able to close every single patient who comes through and it becomes amazing and you'll feel so confident in yourself. So I encourage you to do this. And if you are like, huh, Kiera, I need help. Great. Dental A Team Consulting was built for you. It is a no judgment zone. It's a space where we truly will help you grow. And this is something we are so passionate about helping you become expert treatment planners, treatment presenters, increasing that case acceptance from doctor to team to treatment coordinators to where we truly are able.

 

to get these patients on our schedule. I'd love to help you and your team out. I'd love our team to be able to help you go to the heights you have and be able to help as many patients as we possibly can because they need your dentistry. They need your help. And I really would love to work with you. So DM us on Instagram, email us [email protected]. Go to our website, TheDentalATeam.com. Click on a call. I'd love to chat with you. I'd love to help you, give you some free resources, some free value. We are here to serve you and to make sure that you're able to live the best absolute life you possibly can. And as always, thanks for listening.

 

and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.