Visit our Substack for transcript, show notes, and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/kate-aronowitz

Few designers have an instinct for business fundamentals. Those that do are able to position design as a competitive advantage for a business and pave the way for design teams to collaborate more effectively. Kate Aronowitz is one of those rare birds.

Kate has held high level design roles at LinkedIn, WealthFront, Facebook, eBay, and today she’s at GV (formerly known as Google Ventures), where she helps early stage companies find their footing.

We speak to Kate about the arc of her career, about entrepreneurship as a designer (and why there aren’t more designer-founders), as well as some of the stories from the early days of Facebook like how she was one of the first designers to teach Mark Zuckerberg (or as Eli’s 8 year old son calls him, Zerk Merkerbergen) about human centered design.

Kate Aronowitz is a design executive who has built her career empowering teams at some of Silicon Valley’s most iconic companies. In addition to her role leading GV’s operations team, Kate coaches GV portfolio companies on cross-functional design processes, scale, product development, and management strategy.

Kate has built world-class design teams at eBay, LinkedIn, Facebook (now Meta), and Wealthfront. She joined the first user experience team at eBay before taking her experience to LinkedIn, where she started the user research team. As Facebook’s first design executive, Kate grew the organization from 20 to 200, establishing multidisciplinary design teams in front-end engineering, user research, content strategy, and communication design.

***

Subscribe to DB+ to get episodes a week early and ad-free. Plus, every month, you're invited to exclusive AMAs (Ask Me Anything) with big names in design and tech, from companies like Nike, Netflix, and the New York Times who will answer your questions directly.

Early bird subscribers get 50% off for the first three months. Visit designbetter.plus to learn more and subscribe.

***

Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:

Methodical Coffee: Roasted, blended, brewed, served and perfected by verified coffee nerds 🤓. We have our very own Design Better roast at Methodical, grab some here to fuel your creativity: https://methodicalcoffee.com/products/design-better-coffee

American Giant: Makers of the best hoodie on the planet, their clothing is American-made, ethically produced, and built to last. What more could you ask for? Save 20% off your first order with American Giant using our promo code DESIGNBETTER at checkout. dbtr.co/americangiant

Uplift Desks: For people like us who spend countless hours at our desk, ergonomics are an essential consideration. A standing desk from Uplift Desk can help you avoid the negative effects of sitting all day by improving circulation and reducing strain. Design Better can get a special deal by visiting UPLIFTDesk.com. Use the code DESIGNBETTER5 at checkout for 5% off your order. Free shipping, free returns, and an industry-leading 15-year warranty. They’re a great company.

Gusto: We’re big fans of Gusto, who make it easy to run payroll, set up healthcare and other benefits for your business. They’ve made setting up the HR infrastructure for Design Better a breeze. Gusto is also one of the best designed SaaS tools out there.

Design Better listeners get 3 months free once they run their first payroll - Go to gusto.com/designbetter to sign up.

For decades, graphic designers have been introduced to typography by Ellen Lupton’s book, Thinking With Type. It was certainly a staple in Aarron’s courses when he taught graphic design. It’s now in its third edition, with loads of new content. It’s worth noting, the layout of each page of this book is beautiful and entirely designed by Ellen herself. 

We chat with Ellen about what’s new in this edition of her book, and how people other than designers can use it. We also go through some rapid-fire questions about the fundamentals of typography, and origins of some of the terminology like points, leading, kerning, italics, and more.

Whether you’re new to typography, or a seasoned pro, you’ll learn something from this conversation.

Ellen Lupton is a graphic designer, curator, writer, critic, and educator. Known for her love of typography, Lupton is the Betty Cooke and William O. Steinmetz Design Chair at Maryland Institute College of Art. Previously she was the Senior Curator of Contemporary Design at Cooper Hewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum in New York City and was named Curator Emerita after 30 years of service.

***

Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:

Methodical Coffee: Roasted, blended, brewed, served and perfected by verified coffee nerds 🤓. We have our very own Design Better roast at Methodical, grab some here to fuel your creativity: https://methodicalcoffee.com/products/design-better-coffee

American Giant: Makers of the best hoodie on the planet, their clothing is American-made, ethically produced, and built to last. What more could you ask for? Save 20% off your first order with American Giant using our promo code DESIGNBETTER at checkout. dbtr.co/americangiant

Uplift Desks: For people like us who spend countless hours at our desk, ergonomics are an essential consideration. A standing desk from Uplift Desk can help you avoid the negative effects of sitting all day by improving circulation and reducing strain. Design Better can get a special deal by visiting UPLIFTDesk.com. Use the code DESIGNBETTER5 at checkout for 5% off your order. Free shipping, free returns, and an industry-leading 15-year warranty. They’re a great company.

Gusto: We’re big fans of Gusto, who make it easy to run payroll, set up healthcare and other benefits for your business. They’ve made setting up the HR infrastructure for Design Better a breeze. Gusto is also one of the best designed SaaS tools out there.

Design Better listeners get 3 months free once they run their first payroll - Go to gusto.com/designbetter to sign up.

Visit our Substack for the transcript, additional show notes and links, and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/jonathan-hoefler

Chances are you have a few fonts on your computer designed by Jonathan Hoefler. Since 1991, Apple has included Hoefler Text on every Mac. Ideal Sans, Knockout, Archer, Verlag, and Sentinel—are a few more of Hoefler’s well known typefaces —each is steeped in history and timelessly beautiful. It’s no wonder that Jonathan was featured in the Netflix series Abstract, which explores design and creativity, as he is truly a typography legend.

As part of our series on design history, we talk with Jonathan about his typographic influences, his philosophical views on the value of presentation and why he views entrepreneurship as an invitation, and some of the themes in his work like “Unfinished Business” and “Conservation and Preservation.”

This is the first episode of our 10th season of Design Better. We’ll be continuing our exploration of design history and the creative process, but also adding new themes like how we can design a better future, and the secrets of living a more creative life, with guests like potter and designer Jonathan Adler.

Jonathan Hoefler (pronounced "HEFF-ler") is a typeface designer, typographer, writer, and inventor, and the creator of some of the world's most influential fonts such as Gotham, Knockout, Mercury, Sentinel, and Hoefler Text. He founded the distinguished type foundry Hoefler&Co in 1989, which he sold in 2021, after publishing more than eleven hundred original tyepfaces. He's currently enjoying a sabbatical, and writing about typography and visual culture on his website, JonathanHoefler.com.

***

Subscribe to DB+ to get episodes a week early and ad-free. Plus, every month, you're invited to exclusive AMAs (Ask Me Anything) with big names in design and tech, from companies like Nike, Netflix, and the New York Times who will answer your questions directly.

Early bird subscribers get 50% off for the first three months. Visit designbetter.plus to learn more and subscribe.

***

Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:

Methodical Coffee: Roasted, blended, brewed, served and perfected by verified coffee nerds 🤓. We have our very own Design Better roast at Methodical, grab some here to fuel your creativity: https://methodicalcoffee.com/products/design-better-coffee

American Giant: Makers of the best hoodie on the planet, their clothing is American-made, ethically produced, and built to last. What more could you ask for? Save 20% off your first order with American Giant using our promo code DESIGNBETTER at checkout. dbtr.co/americangiant

Uplift Desks: For people like us who spend countless hours at our desk, ergonomics are an essential consideration. A standing desk from Uplift Desk can help you avoid the negative effects of sitting all day by improving circulation and reducing strain. Design Better can get a special deal by visiting UPLIFTDesk.com. Use the code DESIGNBETTER at checkout for 5% off your order. Free shipping, free returns, and an industry-leading 15-year warranty. They’re a great company.

Gusto: We’re big fans of Gusto, who make it easy to run payroll, set up healthcare and other benefits for your business. They’ve made setting up the HR infrastructure for Design Better a breeze. Gusto is also one of the best designed SaaS tools out there.

Design Better listeners get 3 months free once they run their first payroll - Go to gusto.com/designbetter to sign up.

We would love to learn a bit about you and your listening habits to help us improve the show and partner with the right sponsors who make things relevant to your life. We're giving away a 13" Macbook Air with the new M2 chip to one lucky respondent to our survey who will be chosen at random. Just complete this survey to be entered to win! One entry per person please. https://dbtr.co/2024survey

Visit our Substack for the transcript, links, and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/hamish-smyth

Design systems have been on the minds of those of us in the software industry for more than a decade now and for good reason. To create large scale software with a consistent experience, standards are needed to guide contributors. 

This is not a new problem, though. Before software designers created design systems, brand and print designers created design standards to guide creative collaboration. We had a chance to talk with Hamish Smyth, co-founder of the popular tool Standards, and we relished the opportunity to nerd out with him on this subject.

We spoke with Hamish about what design standards are and how they differ from design systems, some examples of famous standards like Massimo Vignellli’s NYC Subway map and NASAs Standards Manual, and also about what Hamish learned about getting corporate buy-in from working with famed designer Michael Beirut from Pentagram.

Hamish Smyth is the co-founder of Standards and partner at Order. Prior to co-founding Order, Hamish worked as an associate partner the New York office of Pentagram Design under partner Michael Bierut.

In 2014 he co-founded Standards Manual, an independent publishing imprint focusing on the preservation of graphic design history.

***

Subscribe to DB+ to get episodes a week early and ad-free. Plus, every month, you're invited to exclusive AMAs (Ask Me Anything) with big names in design and tech, from companies like Nike, Netflix, and the New York Times who will answer your questions directly.

Early bird subscribers get 50% off for the first three months. Visit designbetter.plus to learn more and subscribe.

***

Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:

Methodical Coffee: Roasted, blended, brewed, served and perfected by verified coffee nerds 🤓. We have our very own Design Better roast at Methodical, grab some here to fuel your creativity: https://methodicalcoffee.com/products/design-better-coffee

American Giant: Makers of the best hoodie on the planet, their clothing is American-made, ethically produced, and built to last. What more could you ask for? Save 20% off your first order with American Giant using our promo code DESIGNBETTER at checkout. dbtr.co/americangiant

Uplift Desks: For people like us who spend countless hours at our desk, ergonomics are an essential consideration. A standing desk from Uplift Desk can help you avoid the negative effects of sitting all day by improving circulation and reducing strain. Design Better can get a special deal by visiting UPLIFTDesk.com. Use the code DESIGNBETTER at checkout for 5% off your order. Free shipping, free returns, and an industry-leading 15-year warranty. They’re a great company.

Gusto: We’re big fans of Gusto, who make it easy to run payroll, set up healthcare and other benefits for your business. They’ve made setting up the HR infrastructure for Design Better a breeze. Gusto is also one of the best designed SaaS tools out there.

Design Better listeners get 3 months free once they run their first payroll - Go to gusto.com/designbetter to sign up.

Find a transcript and more show notes on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/hiroki-asai

Airbnb and Apple have a few things in common: They’re both design-centric companies, they sell products through best-in-class marketing, and they’ve achieved incredible success by focusing on the customer. There’s one more thing they have in common—Hiroki Asai who currently leads marketing at Airbnb and formerly led marketing at Apple during their most historic product launches.

We spoke with Hiroki about his time at Apple and the key elements of their marketing playbook, as well as how he reinterpreted Apple’s values in Airbnb’s culture. We also spoke about the importance of dogfooding, or as John Maeda calls it, “wine tasting,” your own products. And we learn how Airbnb shifted away from traditional product managers, and how that affected their marketing and design processes.

Hiroki Asai oversees all of Airbnb’s marketing efforts, as well as Airbnb's in-house creative teams. Hiroki is responsible for maintaining Airbnb's strong global brand and sharing the story of our millions of hosts who offer unique homes and experiences to guests around the world.

***

Subscribe to DB+ to get episodes a week early and ad-free. Plus, every month, you're invited to exclusive AMAs (Ask Me Anything) with big names in design and tech, from companies like Nike, Netflix, and the New York Times who will answer your questions directly.

Early bird subscribers get 50% off for the first three months. Visit designbetter.plus to learn more and subscribe.

***

Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:

Methodical Coffee: Roasted, blended, brewed, served and perfected by verified coffee nerds 🤓. We have our very own Design Better roast at Methodical, grab some here to fuel your creativity: https://methodicalcoffee.com/products/design-better-coffee

American Giant: Makers of the best hoodie on the planet, their clothing is American-made, ethically produced, and built to last. What more could you ask for? Save 20% off your first order with American Giant using our promo code DESIGNBETTER at checkout. dbtr.co/americangiant

Gusto: We’re big fans of Gusto, who make it easy to run payroll, set up healthcare and other benefits for your business. They’ve made setting up the HR infrastructure for Design Better a breeze. Gusto is also one of the best designed SaaS tools out there.

Design Better listeners get 3 months free once they run their first payroll - Go to gusto.com/designbetter to sign up.

Find the transcript and full show notes on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/vanessa-gennarelli

Change at work is tough, and it’s seemingly constant. New leadership, new boss, new role, new responsibilities, new strategies. Suddenly, everything you thought was certain has been upended and you’re left fretting about what’s next. 

Though change at work is a constant, the stress and confusion it often induces doesn’t have to be. Our guest today is Vanessa Gennarelli, author of Surviving Change at Work, has navigated difficult work situations herself and has practical guidance that can help you get your bearings. 

We speak with Vanessa about dealing with uncertainty, and how to decrease the odds that you’ll be laid off. We also discuss what happens when the mission of your organization has changed, and how to know when it’s time to go.

You can get 10% off Vanessa’s book Surviving Change at Work by entering the code BETTER10 at checkout

Vanessa Gennarelli is the principal of Fortuna, a change management firm, and the chief operating officer for Raise.dev. She has led cross-functional teams at rapidly growing organizations, including GitHub Education through its acquisition by Microsoft. While at one of the largest tech companies on the planet, she learned how to navigate cultural differences, integrate new processes, and help direct reports thrive through change.

***

Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:

American Giant: Makers of the best hoodie on the planet, their clothing is American-made, ethically produced, and built to last. What more could you ask for? Save 20% off your first order with American Giant using our promo code DESIGNBETTER at checkout. dbtr.co/americangiant

Uplift Desks: For people like us who spend countless hours at our desk, ergonomics are an essential consideration. A standing desk from Uplift Desk can help you avoid the negative effects of sitting all day by improving circulation and reducing strain. Design Better can get a special deal by visiting UPLIFTDesk.com. Use the code DESIGNBETTER at checkout for 5% off your order. Free shipping, free returns, and an industry-leading 15-year warranty. They’re a great company.

Factor, America’s #1 Ready-To-Eat Meal Delivery Service, can help you fuel up fast for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with chef-prepared, dietitian-approved ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door. You’ll save time, eat well, and stay on track with your healthy lifestyle while tackling all your holiday to-dos. https://factormeals.com/designbetter50 (use code "designbetter50" for 50% off ).

Methodical Coffee: Roasted, blended, brewed, served and perfected by verified coffee nerds 🤓 : https://methodicalcoffee.com (use code "designbetter" for 10% off of your order).

Brain.fm: Music scientifically proven to increase focus. We use it to focus on important work, tap into our creativity, and wind down at night when we need to rest. As a Design Better subscriber, you can take 30% off of your subscription: https://www.brain.fm/designbetter

With a more than 100 year history, movie making has a lot to teach us about collaboration and creativity in complex environments. How do directors bring together so many people with such different skills for months, sometimes years, to make a movie that holds together as a story that entertains and makes a profit?

That’s exactly what we asked Scott Rice, an Emmy-award winning film and television director, who has been teaching film at the University of Texas at Austin for 25 years. He teaches a course called “Script to Screen” with Academy-award winning actor Matthew McConaughey.

We chat with Scott about how to get your creative process unstuck, how to find collaborators that amplify your skills and bring the right energy to a project, and the essential components for telling a compelling story, whether it’s a feature-length movie or short, convincing pitch.

Scott Rice is an Emmy Award-winning filmmaker and commercial director whose clients include Mastercard, Subway, Vegas Tourism, Shell, Sears and the American Heart Association. He’ s worked with talent like Glenn Close, Brett Favre and Matthew McConaughey with whom he co-teaches a film course at the University of Texas. He’ s collaborated with agencies including JWT, R&R Partners, McGarrah Jessee, Archer Malmo, TM, Commerce House, Fenton and GDC.

Scott’s narrative work holds a staggering film festival record of 300 Official Selections and 85 Awards, including two Student Academy Award nominations. Comedy Central, CBS, Showtime, Hulu, Blockbuster and PBS have distributed his films. He has also directed projects for A&E, the Mental Health Channel, MTV Networks and Sony Pictures.

This episode is sponsored in part by Automattic, the people behind WordPress.com, Woo, Pocket Casts, Jetpack, and more. Stay tuned after the interview where we chat with Dave Lockie, Web3 Lead at Automattic. Automattic is a fully distributed company with the goal of democratizing publishing and commerce so that anyone with a story can tell it. Dave talks about why he sees crypto as an extension of the heart of open source, and his perspective on how Automattic is a mission-driven business that cares about people's freedoms online.

To learn more about working at Automattic, including current job opportunities, visit dbtr.co/automattic.

***

Subscribe to DB+ (50% off)

Subscribe to DB+ to get episodes a week early and ad-free. Plus, every month, you're invited to exclusive AMAs (Ask Me Anything) with big names in design and tech, from companies like Nike, Netflix, and the New York Times who will answer your questions directly.

Early bird subscribers get 50% off for the first three months. Visit designbetter.plus to learn more and subscribe.

***

Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:

American Giant: Makers of the best hoodie on the planet, their clothing is American-made, ethically produced, and built to last. What more could you ask for? Save 20% off your first order with American Giant using our promo code DESIGNBETTER at checkout. dbtr.co/americangiant

Uplift Desks: For people like us who spend countless hours at our desk, ergonomics are an essential consideration. A standing desk from Uplift Desk can help you avoid the negative effects of sitting all day by improving circulation and reducing strain. Design Better can get a special deal by visiting UPLIFTDesk.com. Use the code DESIGNBETTER at checkout for 5% off your order. Free shipping, free returns, and an industry-leading 15-year warranty. They’re a great company.

Methodical Coffee: Roasted, blended, brewed, served and perfected by verified coffee nerds 🤓 : https://methodicalcoffee.com (use code "designbetter" for 10% off of your order).

Find more show notes and the transcript on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/autumn-durald-arkapaw-cinematographer

The Marvel Cinematic Universe has dominated the box office and streaming platforms for years, and our guest, Autumn Durald Arkapaw, has played a significant role in shaping the look of the series. Autumn was the cinematographer for Wakanda Forever—the critically acclaimed second Black Panther film—the series Loki released on Disney+, along with a documentary on the Beastie Boys and music videos for Rihanna and Arcade Fire.

We chat with Autumn about her creative process, including any “rules” she has (and when she breaks them), the overlap between photography and design, and how technology including AI and pre-visualization is changing the process of making films and television.

Autumn Durald Arkapaw grew up in the Bay Area and moved to Los Angeles to complete a course in Art History from Loyola Marymount University. She then went on to study at the American Film Institute before beginning her career as a cinematographer. She has travelled all over the world and worked with both Film Directors, Commercials Projects and Fashion Houses. In 2022, she became a member of the American Society of Cinematographers.

This episode is sponsored in part by Automattic, makers of WordPress, which powers more than 40% of all websites around the world. Stay tuned after the interview (or hear the segment in the embedded player below) for a special glimpse inside Automatic, where we chat with Josepha Hayden Chomphosy, Executive Director of the WordPress Project, about the advantages of open source and what makes Automatic a special work environment.

***

Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:

American Giant: Makers of the best hoodie on the planet, their clothing is American-made, ethically produced, and built to last. What more could you ask for? Save 20% off your first order with American Giant using our promo code DESIGNBETTER at checkout. dbtr.co/americangiant

Uplift Desks: For people like us who spend countless hours at our desk, ergonomics are an essential consideration. A standing desk from Uplift Desk can help you avoid the negative effects of sitting all day by improving circulation and reducing strain. Design Better can get a special deal by visiting UPLIFTDesk.com. Use the code DESIGNBETTER at checkout for 5% off your order. Free shipping, free returns, and an industry-leading 15-year warranty. They’re a great company.

Factor, America’s #1 Ready-To-Eat Meal Delivery Service, can help you fuel up fast for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with chef-prepared, dietitian-approved ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door. You’ll save time, eat well, and stay on track with your healthy lifestyle while tackling all your holiday to-dos. https://factormeals.com/designbetter50 (use code "designbetter50" for 50% off ).

Heath Ceramics: We love Heath Ceramics. They're the types of objects you pass on from generation to generation, the kind of gift you bring to a wedding, or the dishes that you'd want to put on a beautiful Thanksgiving table: dbtr.co/heathceramics get 15% off between now and December 31st with code DBholiday23

Methodical Coffee: Roasted, blended, brewed, served and perfected by verified coffee nerds 🤓 : https://methodicalcoffee.com (use code "designbetter" for 10% off of your order).

Brain.fm: Music scientifically proven to increase focus. We use it to focus on important work, tap into our creativity, and wind down at night when we need to rest. As a Design Better subscriber, you can take 30% off of your subscription: https://www.brain.fm/designbetter

We hope that you’re having a festive holiday season, and that you’re able to take some time off to be with friends and family. Today we’re rewinding to our interview with Robin Petravic, co-owner of Heath Ceramics.

We love Heath Ceramics. They're the types of objects you pass on from generation to generation, the kind of gift you bring to a wedding, or the dishes that you'd want to put on a beautiful holiday table.

Speaking of which, If you have a little holiday money to spend, you can support our show, bring Heath home and get 15% off between now and December 31st . Just go to dbtr.co/heathceramics and use code DBholiday23.

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If you’re a fan of architecture and design, you’re probably familiar with the mid-century modern movement. It brought a simple, clean aesthetic inspired by the Bauhaus and International movements to the US. Heath Ceramics, founded by Edith Heath in 1948 and influenced by mid-century modern principles, is still making beautiful hand-crafted tableware and architectural tile in Sausalito, California. 

We wanted to chat with Heath’s current owner, Robin Petravic, to find out how they approach designing within the legacy of the Heath brand, as well as the story of how he and his partner and co-owner Catherine Bailey came to be owners of the company. 

We also talk with Robin about how the pandemic affected their business, and some of the collaborative challenges and opportunities they faced in transitioning to a hybrid-remote scenario.

***

Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:

American Giant: Makers of the best hoodie on the planet, their clothing is American-made, ethically produced, and built to last. What more could you ask for? Save 20% off your first order with American Giant using our promo code DESIGNBETTER at checkout. dbtr.co/americangiant

Uplift Desks: For people like us who spend countless hours at our desk, ergonomics are an essential consideration. A standing desk from Uplift Desk can help you avoid the negative effects of sitting all day by improving circulation and reducing strain. Design Better can get a special deal by visiting UPLIFTDesk.com. Use the code DESIGNBETTER at checkout for 5% off your order. Free shipping, free returns, and an industry-leading 15-year warranty. They’re a great company.

Factor, America’s #1 Ready-To-Eat Meal Delivery Service, can help you fuel up fast for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with chef-prepared, dietitian-approved ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door. You’ll save time, eat well, and stay on track with your healthy lifestyle while tackling all your holiday to-dos. https://factormeals.com/designbetter50 (use code "designbetter50" for 50% off ).

Methodical Coffee: Roasted, blended, brewed, served and perfected by verified coffee nerds 🤓 : https://methodicalcoffee.com

(use code "designbetter" for 10% off of your order).

Brain.fm: Music scientifically proven to increase focus. We use it to focus on important work, tap into our creativity, and wind down at night when we need to rest. As a Design Better subscriber, you can take 30% off of your subscription: https://www.brain.fm/designbetter

Find the transcript, show notes, and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/barry-katz

We bet you don’t know where the term “interaction design” comes from, but Barry Katz does. Katz’s book, Make It New, captures the lost history of digital design that should be required reading for all in the software design industry.

Eli first got to know Barry Katz as a professor at Stanford during his undergrad education in product design, where Barry taught one of his favorite classes: The History and Philosophy of Design. Typically, Eli was drawn toward the more project-based classes where he got to spend late nights in the machine shop making things, but Barry’s humor and knowledge of the depths of design history brought the academic side of design to life for him.

In our conversation with Barry we learned when exactly design became an essential part of technology businesses, and the origin story behind some of the challenges designers commonly have with engineering teams. This is an eye opening episode.

Barry M. Katz is Professor of Industrial and Interaction Design at California College of the Arts, Consulting Professor in the Design Group, Department of Mechancial Engineering, at Stanford University, and Fellow at IDEO, Inc. He is coauthor of Change by Design, with Tim Brown, and NONOBJECT, with Branko Lukić (MIT Press).

***

Subscribe to DB+ to get episodes a week early and ad-free. Plus, every month, you're invited to exclusive AMAs (Ask Me Anything) with big names in design and tech, from companies like Nike, Netflix, and the New York Times who will answer your questions directly.

Early bird subscribers get 50% off for the first three months. Visit designbetter.plus to learn more and subscribe.

***

Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:

American Giant: Makers of the best hoodie on the planet, their clothing is American-made, ethically produced, and built to last. What more could you ask for? Save 20% off your first order with American Giant using our promo code DESIGNBETTER at checkout. dbtr.co/americangiant

Uplift Desks: For people like us who spend countless hours at our desk, ergonomics are an essential consideration. A standing desk from Uplift Desk can help you avoid the negative effects of sitting all day by improving circulation and reducing strain. Design Better can get a special deal by visiting UPLIFTDesk.com. Use the code DESIGNBETTER at checkout for 5% off your order. Free shipping, free returns, and an industry-leading 15-year warranty. They’re a great company.

Factor, America’s #1 Ready-To-Eat Meal Delivery Service, can help you fuel up fast for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with chef-prepared, dietitian-approved ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door. You’ll save time, eat well, and stay on track with your healthy lifestyle while tackling all your holiday to-dos. https://factormeals.com/designbetter50 (use code "designbetter50" for 50% off ).

Heath Ceramics: We love Heath Ceramics. They're the types of objects you pass on from generation to generation, the kind of gift you bring to a wedding, or the dishes that you'd want to put on a beautiful Thanksgiving table: dbtr.co/heathceramics get 15% off between now and December 31st with code DBholiday23

Methodical Coffee: Roasted, blended, brewed, served and perfected by verified coffee nerds 🤓 : https://methodicalcoffee.com (use code "designbetter" for 10% off of your order).

Brain.fm: Music scientifically proven to increase focus. We use it to focus on important work, tap into our creativity, and wind down at night when we need to rest. As a Design Better subscriber, you can take 30% off of your subscription: https://www.brain.fm/designbetter