It's the end of an era on Dev Interrupted as we say farewell to host Conor Bronsdon and welcome a fresh voice, Andrew Zigler!

Join us for a nostalgic trip down memory lane as Conor revisits his favorite interviews and moments from Season 4 and beyond, including discussions on chaos engineering, technical debt, and the human side of managing software engineers. He shares memorable stories from guests like Charity Majors, Rob Zuber, Kelly Vaughn, and many more, while reflecting on the evolution of Dev Interrupted and its impact on the engineering leadership community.

But it’s not all bittersweet. Get an exclusive sneak peek at the exciting changes coming to Dev Interrupted in 2025. Expect the show to double down on research and data, explore new formats, and even hit the road with live events. Plus, the Dev Interrupted Substack will feature more frequent newsletters, unique analysis of research white papers, and insights from guest writers. 

You don’t want to miss this special episode filled with laughter, reflection, and a surprise holiday-themed game of Would You Rather. 

The team is taking off the holidays but we’ll see you back here on January 7th for the start of Season 5!

Show Notes:

• 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights Webinar
• Keep up with Conor: Substack
• Listen to Conor at: Chain of Thought Podcast

Support the show:

• Subscribe to our Substack
• Leave us a review
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Offers:

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2025 will test every assumption about how engineering teams work.

With the new year fast approaching Ori Keren, CEO of LinearB, has some bold predictions that might surprise you, like why developer productivity could actually go down in 2025.

Yep, you read that right.

As AI tools flood the market, we might see a dip in both productivity and creativity before the long-term benefits kick in. It’s a wake-up call for engineering leaders to rethink how they lead their teams.

Ori dives into the trends that’ll dominate:
- AI’s rise
- The ever-growing need for cybersecurity
- Why DevEx and developer productivity are heading for a showdown

His advice? Stop flying blind. “You can’t optimize what you don’t measure,” he says.

If you’re leading an engineering org, this episode is your 2025 game plan: a mix of data-driven decision-making and people-first strategies to stay ahead in a year of change. Don’t miss this insightful fusion of qual and quant.

Show Notes:

• Join us at Dev Interrupted Live!
• 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights Webinar
• Follow Ori
• Follow Ben
• Follow Andrew

Support the show:

• Subscribe to our Substack
• Leave us a review
• Subscribe on YouTube
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Offers:

• Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream
• Get your DORA Metrics free forever

What’s the secret to building better products? Letting engineers drive the vision.

This week, host Ben Lloyd Pearson interviews Austin Spiegel, co-founder and CTO of Sift Stack, who previously spent years leading engineering teams at SpaceX. Austin reveals how SpaceX's unique engineering culture, which eliminated the product management layer,  influenced his approach to building Sift Stack, including the implementation of a forward-deployed engineering team.

Learn how this approach leads to faster development cycles, happier customers, and more innovative products.

Austin also argues that we're entering a new era where the most valuable engineers aren't just skilled coders, but also savvy business thinkers. He believes that as software development becomes easier due to the proliferation of AI, engineers who can connect their technical expertise with a deep understanding of customer needs and market trends will have a significant competitive advantage.

Show Notes:

• 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights Webinar
• Read The secret to better products? Let engineers drive vision
• Follow Sift Stack on LinkedIn

Support the show:

• Subscribe to our Substack
• Leave us a review
• Subscribe on YouTube
• Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn

Offers:

• Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream
• Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Most developers (ourselves included) want to run for the hills when they hear the words “engineering process.” But it turns out, the biggest danger to your team may not be having enough process.

You don’t have to take our word for it. This week’s guest made a believer out of us and we’re willing to bet she’ll make a believer out of you too.

Julianna Lamb, co-founder and CTO of Stytch, understands that engineering processes can be a sensitive subject for developers. But she argues that the right amount of process can actually boost your team's velocity and empower them to take ownership. Julianna shares insights on how to right-size processes for teams, implement effective project life cycles, and address friction points to ensure smooth workflows.

Show Notes:

• Refactoring x Dev Interrupted Survey
• Learn more about Stytch
• Julianna’s LinkedIn
• Julianna’s Twitter

Support the show:

• Subscribe to our Substack
• Leave us a review
• Subscribe on YouTube
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Offers:

• Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream
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This week, Dev Interrupted dives into the 2024 Stack Overflow Developer Survey, revealing a surprising statistic: only 1 in 5 developers are happy in their jobs.
 
Stack Overflow's Senior Analyst of Market Research and Insights, Erin Yepis, joins host Ben Lloyd Pearson to discuss the survey's findings and explore the reasons behind this widespread dissatisfaction. From salary woes and workplace settings to the ever-present burden of technical debt, they dissect the factors impacting developer happiness.

Later, Dan Lines offers his perspective, drawing on LinearB's data to pinpoint three key challenges to developer satisfaction. He also shares valuable strategies for tackling technical debt, a growing concern as more companies transform into software-driven businesses.

Show Notes:

• 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights Webinar
• Refactoring x Dev Interrupted Survey
• 2024 Stack Overflow Developer Survey
• Check out Erin’s blog

Support the show:

• Subscribe to our Substack
• Leave us a review
• Subscribe on YouTube
• Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn

Offers:

• Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream
• Get your DORA Metrics free forever

There’s AI agents. There’s AI tooling. Do either drive business impact or are they just more things your dev team is supposed to stay on top of?

Birgitta Boeckeler, Global Lead for AI Assisted Software Delivery at ThoughtWorks, joins the show to discuss the practical applications of AI in software delivery. She shares her research on AI agents, highlights areas where AI hasn't lived up to the hype, and offers concrete examples of useful AI tools for development teams.

Dan Lines then joins the conversation to provide his perspective on how engineering leaders can leverage these insights to effectively implement AI within their own teams. He also discusses LinearB's efforts in helping software teams measure the business impact of AI.

Show Notes:

• 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights Webinar
• Refactoring x Dev Interrupted Survey
• Birgitta’s LinkedIn
• Birgitta’s website
• Martin Fowler Memos

Support the show:

• Subscribe to our Substack
• Leave us a review
• Subscribe on YouTube
• Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn

Offers:

• Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream
• Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Open source has transformed software development, but can it do the same for AI?

In this episode of Dev Interrupted, Conor Bronsdon talks with Scott McCarty, Senior Principal Product Manager at Red Hat, about the potential of open source AI to revolutionize enterprise DevOps. 

They discuss the challenges and opportunities of open source AI, including licensing, security, and the need for community-driven development. McCarty argues that open source AI is crucial for building trust and ensuring that AI benefits everyone, not just a select few.

Show Notes:

• 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights Webinar
• Refactoring x Dev Interrupted Survey
• Scott’s LinkedIn

Support the show:

• Subscribe to our Substack
• Leave us a review
• Subscribe on YouTube
• Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn

Offers:

• Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream
• Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Everyone knows the era of growth at all costs is over, but where does that leave us? And specifically, where does that leave founders? The answer is straightforward: founders have to start thinking like business people. 

This week, Conor Bronsdon interviews Ashish Aggarwal, founder and CTO of Productive and an active investor in over 30 companies.

Ashish shares his insights on how startups are adapting to the new “efficient growth” environment, why this paradigm shift is an opportunity for founders, and how the pressures of efficiency have created incentives for companies to move towards geo-distributed teams instead of co-located teams.

Show Notes:

• Refactoring x Dev Interrupted Survey
• Ashish’s LinkedIn
• 2024 State of SaaS Consolidation Report

Support the show:

• Subscribe to our Substack
• Leave us a review
• Subscribe on YouTube
• Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn

Offers:

• Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream
• Get your DORA Metrics free forever

It’s time we recognize the idea of a ‘Golden Path’ is unrealistic.

In this episode of Dev Interrupted, host Dan Lines is joined by Cory O'Daniel, CEO of MassDriver, to discuss Cory’s provocative article 'DevOps is Bullshit'. They cover the pitfalls of DevOps, the evolution of cloud operations and whether or not platform engineering is the solution the industry needs .

Cory shares insights on why many organizations struggle with DevOps implementation, the impact of cloud technology on traditional operations, and how internal developer platforms are reshaping the industry.

Topics:

• 01:03 Where has DevOps gone wrong?
• 04:19 Have we changed or does DevOps mean something different?
• 11:51 Platform engineering in 2024
• 20:10 How can platform engineering leaders measure success?
• 26:40 Why are new hires being put in charge of DevOps?
• 29:53 Getting buy in for a better platform engineering experience
• 39:13 Are internal developer platforms a fad? 

Show Notes:

• Refactoring x Dev Interrupted Survey
• Cory O'Daniel
• Massdriver - Standardize Infrastructure | Enhance Developer Experience | Enable Self-Service
• Cory O’Daniel k8s/acc (@coryodaniel) / X
• DevOps is Bullshit
• Bridging Cloud Talent Gap

Support the show:

• Subscribe to our Substack
• Leave us a review
• Subscribe on YouTube
• Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn

Offers:

• Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream
• Get your DORA Metrics free forever

This week, host Conor Bronsdon chats with Dheeraj Pandey, CEO and co-founder of DevRev. Dheeraj shares his incredible journey from leading Nutanix to a valuation of $16 billion, to now striving to build another unicorn with DevRev.

Dheeraj opens up about the lessons learned from his entrepreneurial journey, emphasizing the significance of having a holistic approach to building products and companies. He explores how his experiences at Nutanix have shaped his vision at DevRev, especially in terms of integrating AI as a core component rather than a mere add-on.

The discussion also covers a range of topics including the transformative power of AI in business operations, customer-centric design, and the importance of balancing innovative technology with intuitive user experience.

Topics:

• 02:49 What inspired you to start DevRev?
• 08:38 How did you decide not to take a bolt on approach to AI?
• 11:30 What can other entrepreneurs learn from you about levelling up their abilities?
• 16:42 How are you approaching scaling up DevRel?
• 28:11 How is DevRev thinking about AI driven design?
• 44:52 What's happening with DevRev's leadership in AI?

Links:

• Dheeraj Pandey
• Dheeraj Pandey
• Dheeraj Pandey (@dheeraj) / X
• DevRev (@devrev)
• Dheeraj Pandey
• Download the Engineering Leader’s Guide to Accelerating Developer Productivity
• Unified Support
• Opening Windows
• Founder Mode
• Overcoming Growth Crises
• Zanzibar: Google’s Consistent, Global Authorization System

Support the show:

• Subscribe to our Substack
• Leave us a review
• Subscribe on YouTube
• Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn

Offers:

• Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream
• Get your DORA Metrics free forever