Deviate with Rolf Potts

“What will travel look like after the pandemic? In material ways it will probably change more than it did post-9/11.” –Sean Keener

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sean talk about how fast the assumptions surrounding international travel have changed in recent weeks, and how that has transformed the assumptions of the travel industry (4:15); making sense of the current uncertainty about how travel has been altered by the COVID-19 pandemic (9;30); distinguishing facts from stories while information about travel keeps changing (16:00); and what travel possibilities and travel ideals might look like in the near future (21:00).

Sean Keener (@SEKeener) is the Cofounder and CEO of the BootsnAll Travel Network, a travel media network focused on planning complex, multi-stop, round-the-world travel. He is also the Chairman of AirTreks, a travel network specializing in multi-stop international travel.

Notable Links:

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Fear of fear is part of what we have to untangle. Sometimes the real fear never arrives, but you’ve already worked yourself into a state of crisis.”  –Eva Holland

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks to Eva talk about how she came to write a book about fear, how fear has affected her own life, and how fear was a part of researching and writing her book (2:00); how fear is defined in the scientific, physiological, and emotional sense (9:00); what Eva learned about existential fears in the context of losing her mother (15:00); how Eva came to be aware of with her fear of heights, and how she came to deal with it (20:00); what science has to say about intuition, what it’s like to “smell fear,” and what military research has revealed about how we manage fear (27:00); how the experience of trauma is related to certain kind of fear, and what therapies have been developed to help cure PTSD (33:00); the notion of “fearlessness,” and what it’s like for people who don’t seem to experience fear in the way others do (40:00); a beta blocker therapy that is being developed in Amsterdam to treat fear memories (46:30); and how the fear of fear complicates fear itself (53:00).

Eva Holland (@evaholland) is a correspondent for Outside magazine, and the author of Nerve: Adventures in the Science of Fear. Her work has been nominated for a Canadian National Magazine Award, anthologized in The Best Women’s Travel Writing and The Best Canadian Sports Writing, and listed among the notable selections in multiple editions of The Best American Essays, The Best American Sports Writing, and The Best American Travel Writing. She lives in the Yukon Territory.

Notable Links:

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Imagine you wake up and you get this call telling you that your father died three days after your mother. How do you think I felt? I couldn’t even cry any more. ” –Marco Ferrarese

This episode of Deviate, Rolf summarizes the pandemic-travel reports he’s been getting from travelers is places like London, Turkey, Mexico, India, and Macau (2:00); then the episode transitions into Marco Ferrarese’s report about his travel-writing excursion in Peru, and what it’s like to be locked down in the Peruvian mountain town of Cabanaconde (4:45); how he heard that Tundra and Maurizio, his parents back home in the Lombardy region Italy, had become sick, and why the virus was still spreading in that part of the country (6:45); how his parents’ illness was initially misdiagnosed, and how things changed when they were admitted to the hospital (11:40); how it was difficult to interpret the news that was being passed along from the hospital as his parents’ conditioned worsened, and how he found out that his mother, and later his father, had died (14:00); and how seriously we need to take the warnings we hear about COVID-19 (21:00).

Marco Ferrarese is an independent researcher and freelance writer. He is author of Nazi Goreng, and Banana Punk Rawk Trails: A Euro-Fool’s Metal Punk Journeys in Malaysia, Borneo and Indonesia, and has reported from all over Asia for a number of international publications including BBC, CNN and National Geographic Traveller. His other projects include Penang Insider and Monkey Rock World: Untamed Travel on Asia’s Hidden Roads.

Episode art shows Marco Ferrarese’s parents, Tundra and Maurizio, visiting the southern Italian town of Matera in 2015.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. 

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Epidemiologists have found that you can slow a pandemic tremendously by focusing public hygiene efforts on three key global airports.” –Dr. JP Santiago

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dr. JP Santiago talk about how the COVID-19 pandemic will change global air travel moving forward (2:00); the prescience of the 2011 movie Contagion, what the scientific data says right now about how long COVID-19 can contaminate various surfaces (13:30); what to make of certain “folk cures” for COVID-19, as well as whether or not it’s safe to take medicines like ibuprofen to treat symptoms (20:00); the future of post-traditional medical treatment approaches, such a telemedicine (29:30); what other pandemics, such as H1N1 can (or cannot) teach us about how to respond to COVID-19 (34:00); and when “normal” life might return, given pandemic concerns, and what that might look like (42:00).

JP Santiago has been a family medicine physician in private practice in Dallas/Fort Worth for nearly 20 years. He earned his medical degree in 1997 from the University of Texas Southwestern in Dallas, and did his residency training and was chief resident at the University of Kansas Medical Center before returning to Texas. He will be retiring from private practice in April to work for the Indian Health Service to provide medical care to Native American reservations as a traveling physician. His wife is a physician as well and he has four children. He maintains an aviation magazine online at: https://theavgeeks.com/

Notable Links:

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art is online here.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“We need to avoid cherry-picking pandemic data that suits our personal narrative of what we think is going on.” –Dr. JP Santiago

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dr. JP Santiago talk about how the “existential threat” of pandemic is changing the way family-practice doctors are dealing with patients right now (1:40); the role of data in medicine, the definition of “observer bias,” and how the willingness to arrive at conclusions that contradict one’s initial hypothesis is essential in a medical context (9:30); a history of the shortcomings and dangers of naming infectious diseases after animals, people, or geographical places (20:00); how capitalism can be a force that can both enable and compromise solutions during a pandemic (33:30); and Dr. Santiago’s advice on how people should respond to the pandemic (40:00).

JP Santiago has been a family medicine physician in private practice in Dallas/Fort Worth for nearly 20 years. He earned his medical degree in 1997 from the University of Texas Southwestern in Dallas, and did his residency training and was chief resident at the University of Kansas Medical Center before returning to Texas. He will be retiring from private practice in April to work for the Indian Health Service to provide medical care to Native American reservations as a traveling physician. His wife is a physician as well and he has four children. He maintains an aviation magazine online at: https://theavgeeks.com/

Notable Links:

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“All the struggles of travel have taught me lessons about survival that will be useful coming up.” –Rollie Peterkin

“I don’t think there are any ‘right’ choices at the moment. We’re all making the best with what we’ve got to work with.” –Aimée Bruneau

“I think we’ll come out of this with a better sense that caring for other people is the most important thing in life. Not material possessions. Not political differences. Not ethnicity or religion. Just the fact that we’re all one human family.”  –Barbara Weibel

In this episode of Deviate, Mike and Anne Howard describe what it’s like to be staying put in Poland during the pandemic lockdown (2:30); Justine Miller talks about being stuck in a Tunis hotel after flights stopped leaving the airport (6:00); Rollie Peterkin recounts what it was like to travel in Turkey as news of the pandemic mounted (9:00); Samantha Page talks about how Australian emergency preparedness was enhanced by the recent wildfire outbreak there (13:30); Aimée Bruneau describes a comparatively laid-back atmosphere in Mexico (17:00); Jeremy Kroeker talks about how his inter-continental motorcycle journey has come to a stand-still in Uruguay (22:00); Barbara Ann Weibel talks about how locals and expats are working together to solve problems in Thailand (26:00); Karen Catchpole and Eric Mohl describe uncertain attitudes toward outsiders in parts of Argentina (30:45); Troy Nahumko talks about how his kids are dealing with new developments in Spain (35:00); and Dennis and Stephanie Kay describes how pandemic life in France is a model for what could happen in the United States (39:30).

Pandemic dispatch correspondents:

Mike & Anne Howard (@HoneyTrek) are the authors of Ultimate Journeys for Two: Extraordinary Destinations on Every Continent, and Comfortably Wild: The Best Glamping Destinations in North America.

Justine Miller (@JustineIMiller)  is a TV reporter for News 12 The Bronx and News 12 Brooklyn in New York City. She and her husband are in the middle of a seven-month sabbatical that is taking them around the world.

Rollie Peterkin (@Rolliepeterkin) is the author of The Cage: Escaping the American Dream, which recount his experience of becoming an MMA fighter in Peru after having left a career as a bond trader on Wall Street.

Samantha Page (@sampagee) has traveling internationally for more than two years, and is now based in Canberra, where she works as a writer and content developer for the Australian National University.

Aimée Bruneau is a professor of acting, a public speaking coach, an audiobook narrator, a children’s book author, a yoga teacher, a world travel addict, and an international pet-sitter.

Jeremy Kroeker (@Jeremy_Kroeker) is the author of Motorcycle Therapy: A Canadian Adventure in Central America, and Through Dust and Darkness: A Motorcycle Journey of Fear and Faith in the Middle East.

Barbara Ann Weibel (@holeinthedonut) has been traveling the world since she walked away from corporate life in 2007. She shares stories about the places she visits and the people she meets on her blog, Hole in the Donut Cultural Travel.

Karen Catchpole and Eric Mohl (@transamericas_journey) have been traveling full-time since 2006, when they left their apartment in New York City and embarked on their ongoing Trans-Americas Journey.

Troy Nahumko is an author and musician based in Caceres, Spain. His recent travel writing focuses on travels around the Mediterranean, from Tangiers to Istanbul.

Dennis and Stephanie Kay are Americans who have been living abroad and traveling the world since 2003. They are currently living as full time residents in Strasbourg, France.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit a given journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Being diagnosed with COVID-19 creates a lot of anxiety. And then you think: Is this thing I’m feeling just anxiety, or is it shortness of breath? Do I need to go to the hospital?” –Nomadic Matt Kepnes

This episode of Deviate, begins with Rolf and Matt Kepnes taking about what it has been like for Matt to suffer from COVID-19, where he might have contracted it (having recently traveled to Taiwan, Paris, and New York), and what will happen to TravelCon in 2020 (2:30); digital nomad Melissa Witmer describes her social isolation in the Canary Islands after having traveled in Turkey (13:00); Marco Ferrarese talks about getting stuck in Peru while COVID-19 ravages his home country of Italy (16:40); Stephanie Johnson explains her decision to stay in rural Kenya rather than try and return stateside (21:05); Jon DeHart describes a seemingly lackadaisical pandemic atmosphere in Tokyo (27:10); Amber Hoffman recounts reactions to COVID-19 in Hong Kong and Spain (32:15); Claire and Sam Jessup talk about waiting out the lockdown in a motorhome in Denmark (37:50); and Brooks Eakin recounts the atmosphere in Shanghai, dating back to the first time in made headlines back in January (43:55).

Travelers and correspondents appearing in this episode:

Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt), commonly known as “Nomadic Matt,” is a travel blogger and the New York Times bestselling author of Travel the World on $50 a Day. He is also the founder of TravelCon, a yearly conference to help people learn the skills needed to develop a profitable and sustainable career in the travel industry. His newest book is Ten Years a Nomad.

Melissa Witmer is the founder of UltyResults.com a business that helps ultimate frisbee players and coaches improve their performance on the frisbee field. She has been running this business as a digital nomad with no permanent location since 2015.

Marco Ferrarese is an independent researcher and freelance writer. He is author of Nazi Goreng, and Banana Punk Rawk Trails: A Euro-Fool’s Metal Punk Journeys in Malaysia, Borneo and Indonesia, and has reported from all over Asia for a number of international publications including BBC, CNN and National Geographic Traveller.

Originally from Washington DC, Stephanie Nasbe Johnson currently lives in Kabarnet, Baringo County, Kenya, where she teaches art and computers through the Polkadot Library, which was set up to encourage a reading culture and promote gender equality.

Jonathan DeHart is a Tokyo-based writer and editor focused on culture and society in Asia. He is the author of a first-edition Japan guidebook for Moon Travel Guides and a journalist with more than 500 published articles.

Amber Hoffman is the food and travel writer behind With Husband In Tow, and, more recently, The Bean Bites, which is a recipe site that focuses on beans and lentils, including pantry staples. Her newest book is The Food Traveler’s Guide to The Costa Brava.

Claire and Sam Jessup have been traveling by motorhome since getting married in September 2018. You can follow our adventures on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, or Twitter.

Brooks Eakin (@BrooksEakin) is an American writer and musician based in Shanghai, China.

The Deviate podcast is sponsored by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit a given journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Travel is in our nature. We’ll have to counterbalance our new ‘normal’ when borders reopen to weigh in an extra element of risk.” –Dr. JP Santiago

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dr. JP Santiago talk about how to make sense of the misinformation about COVID-19 that has flooded social media, and how American cultural attitudes toward the pandemic differ from those in Asia (2:10); how COVID-19 affects its victims, and what data doctors are looking for about the pandemic (12:00); how the virus replicates itself, the duration of its incubation period, and how to stay healthy in public places (17:45); the importance of social distancing and self-quarantine for sick people, and how to keep from transmitting sickness to health workers (22:00); reliable online sources for information about the COVID-19 virus (29:00); how the pandemic has affected travel, and how travelers can stay healthy moving forward (32:00); what happens next with the COVID-19 pandemic worldwide, our efforts to create a vaccine, political foresight, and how the virus will affect human behavior moving forward (38:20).

JP Santiago has been a family medicine physician in private practice in Dallas/Fort Worth for nearly 20 years. He earned his medical degree in 1997 from the University of Texas Southwestern in Dallas, and did his residency training and was chief resident at the University of Kansas Medical Center before returning to Texas. He will be retiring from private practice in April to work for the Indian Health Service to provide medical care to Native American reservations as a traveling physician. His wife is a physician as well and he has four children. He maintains an aviation magazine online at: https://theavgeeks.com/

Notable Links:

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“The average human ear tunes out after about six minutes of orality. It used to be nine.” –Elena Passarello

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Elena talk about the first giraffe ever to live in Paris in the 19th century (3:30); how public presentation and performance differs from other kinds of speaking and reading, and how to prepare for it (9:00); the role of nervousness in public speaking, and how to deal with it (21:00); how prepare a text or script before reading or using it as an outline in a public speaking situation (31:00); and the importance of concrete language and “syntactical music” in public speaking (42:00).

Elena Passarello is an American writer, actor, and professor. Her book Let Me Clear My Throat (Sarabande, 2012), won the gold medal for nonfiction at the 2013 Independent Publisher Awards, and her essays on performance, pop culture, and the natural world have been published in Oxford American, Slate, and Creative Nonfiction, among other publications,. For more on Elena, check out https://www.elenapassarello.com/.

Notable Links:

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Travel is kind of strength-training for your soul.” –Tara Quinn

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tara talk about she got started coaching people pm setting up work sabbaticals, what her clients’ most common concerns are, and how Americans’ attitude toward work are different from the rest of the world (3:00); common tactics and techniques she employs as a sabbatical coach, and what kinds of clients she attracts (17:00); how to use travel as a pretext for professional development, self-education, and changing careers (28:00); the importance of imperfection and failure in learning useful lessons from travel (40:00); and ending a long-term sabbatical journey and transitioning back into professional life (48:00).

Tara Quinn (@threemonthvisa) is a certified life and career coach with a passion for working with clients who dream of taking time off to travel, live, work, study or volunteer abroad. Tara roster of clients includes people from companies such as Apple, Google, Microsoft, Bank of America, UC Berkeley, and The United Nations. For more on Tara and her career, check out http://www.threemonthvisa.com/.

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].