Deviate with Rolf Potts

“Treat Indonesia as a continent, not a country.” – Tim Hannigan

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss why Indonesia is underrated (3:00); the role of Indonesia in the popular consciousness (15:00); the history or Bali and the geography of Indonesia (22:00); cultural differences and the influence of travel blogging (38:00); and strategies for first time travelers (55:00).

Tim Hannigan (@Tim_Hannigan) is a travel and history writer, specializing in Southeast Asia and particularly Indonesia. He has written travel features for newspapers and magazines in Asia, the Middle East, North America and the UK, and has contributed to various radio and television documentaries on Asian history. He has also worked on guidebooks to destinations including Bali, Nepal, Myanmar, and India. Tim is the author of A Brief History of Indonesia and A Geek in Indonesia. For more about Tim, check out https://timhannigan.com/.

Notable Links:

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Kicking and Screaming is a more arch and far more intelligent version of the TV show Friends. If you want to experience that feeling of being young and not really knowing yet what you’re doing in life, watch this movie instead.” –Michael Weinreb

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Michael discuss the plot of Noah Baumbach‘s debut movie Kicking & Screaming, and how it explores life-transition and the loss of status that accompanies college graduation (3:15); Generation X movie marketing, and how Michael and Rolf came to find the movie in video stores (9:00); other movies with a similar youth theme, such as Glory Daze, and how even slacker movies could be aspirational for people who watched them (18:00); the way Kicking & Screaming played with notions of nostalgia (27:00); plot aspects that do double comedic/dramatic-duty (33:00); ties to other Noah Baumbach characters, and the philosophical texture of indecision (43:00); the way the movie explores the small problems of being young and upper-middle class in a time of relative peace (48:00); how sense of place affects the characters the story, and how the movie has a writerly sensibility (51:00); and the case for why one should watch the movie (1:01:00).

Michael Weinreb (@MichaelWeinreb) is the author of three sports books, including Game of Kings, about a Brooklyn high-school chess team; Bigger Than the Game, about the rise of celebrity sports culture in the 1980s; and a cultural and personal history of college football, Season of Saturdays. He has been a contributing writer for ESPN, The New York Times, Grantland, Rolling Stone, The Athletic, and The Ringer. For more about Michael, check out https://michaelweinreb.com/.

1980s and 1990s youth-culture links:

Books and creators mentioned:

Noah Baumbach projects and collaborators:

1980s and 1990s movies mentioned:

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“The Sears Christmas Wish Book was, for me, a kind of foundational text — a secular counterpoint to the Bible stories I learned around that time in Sunday School. I paged through the holiday catalog’s 620 glossy pages as if they amounted to an intoxicating graphic novel of desire, rich with abundance and possibility.” – Rolf Potts, from “Literature of Desire”

In this episode Rolf reads an audio version of his Christmas-themed essay “Literature of Desire,” and discusses the wonders of the Sears Christmas Wish Book with novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg). Tod is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, including the Gangsterland series, which is currently being developed into a television show. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA, and the co-host of the Literary Disco podcast.

Introduction (01:35 – 12:20)

Literature of Desire essay (12:20 – 33:20)

Sears Wish Book memories (33:20 – 51:10)

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Going the longer route through literature, rather than just reading self-help, will ultimately be more satisfying.” – Jeffrey Tayler

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jeffrey discuss navigating life’s challenges through literature (3:00); Ecclesiastes and the great stories of history (12:00); and using literature to make sense of ones life (19:00).

Jeffrey Tayler (@JeffreyTayler1) is an American writer and journalist living in Moscow. He is a contributing editor at The Atlantic, and many of his essays have been selected for The Best American Travel Writing series. Two of his travel essays were also selected by Bill Bryson for the inaugural edition of The Best American Travel Writing 2000. He is the author of seven books, including Siberian Dawn and Facing the Congo. His recent book, In Putin’s Footsteps, which he co-authored with Nikita Khrushchev’s great grand-daughter, is out now.

Notable Links:

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Everything we do in this world comes with a story attached to it.” – Hala Alyan

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Hala discuss narrative therapy and identity formation (3:00); making sense of our youth and life’s challenges (18:00); family and relationship mythology (29:00); how narrative theory addresses common life scenarios (36:00); and narrative theory strategies and techniques (45:00).

Hala Alyan (@HalaNAlyan) is an award-winning Palestinian American poet, novelist, and clinical psychologist whose work has appeared in The New York Times, Guernica and elsewhere. Her poetry collections have won the Arab American Book Award and the Crab Orchard Series. Her debut novel, Salt Houses was the winner of the Arab American Book Award and the Dayton Literary Peace Prize. Her latest poetry collection, The Twenty-Ninth Year, is out now. For more about Hala, check out https://www.halaalyan.com/.

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by the Paris Writing Workshop, a month-long creative writing workshop in the artistic heart of Europe. In addition to taking classes and participating in workshops, students will receive one-on-one consultations with professional writers, attend literary panel presentations, and give readings in Parisian venues. Core classes include Fiction, Poetry, Creative Nonfiction, Screenwriting as well as Submissions and Publications, a seminar that will give students information, insight and strategies for getting their portfolio work published.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“So much of what is wrong with America today began with the Civil War and Reconstruction” – Jason Cochran

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jason discuss the monuments at Gettysburg, and the concept of a Civil War “hero” (2:00); the revisionist post-war memorial efforts by Southern organizations (13:00); the concept of memorials, and how they shape memory (26:00); and our relationship with deceased celebrities, and how to interpret America through its monuments (40:00). 

Jason Cochran (@JasCochran), the award-winning author of Here Lies America, has been a travel authority and consumer expert for over 20 years. His work has appeared in such publications as Travel + Leisure, the New York Post, USA Today, and The New York Times. He is currently Editor-in-Chief of Frommers.com and co-host with Pauline Frommer of the weekly Travel Show on WABC. For more about Jason, check out https://jasoncochran.com/. 

Notable Links:

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“You cannot change your reality until you see your reality.” – Alex Banayan

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alex discuss mentorship (3:00); the genesis of Alex’s book The Third Door (10:00); “opportunity hurdles” (30:00); structural storytelling, and the art of learning (54:00); and the importance of thinking differently (1:11:00).

Alex Banayan (@AlexBanayan) is the bestselling business author of The Third Door, which chronicles his five-year quest to track down Bill Gates, Lady Gaga, Warren Buffett, Maya Angelou, Steven Spielberg, and dozens more of the world’s most successful people to uncover how they broke through and launched their careers. Alex has been named to Forbes’ 30 Under 30 list, Business Insider’s Most Powerful People Under 30, and been featured in major media including Fortune, Forbes, and Businessweek. For more about Alex, check out https://thirddoorbook.com/.

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by the Paris Writing Workshop, which features a one-week Big Idea Book Bootcamp, which teaches people with expertise in a specific professional field — business, medicine, science, sports, finance, etc — to channel that expertise into a book-length narrative that inspires, enlightens, and transforms readers’ perspectives of the world, and of life. 

This episode of Deviate is also brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks, and AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, and can customize the route to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Pretty much the second you step outside your front door, you have some basis for calling what you do ‘travel’” – Spud Hilton

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Spud talk about the “messy, fun, and naughty side of travel” (3:20); sex and travel (26:00); the overly reverent language we often use to talk about travel (37:00); and the death of the “Mile-High Club” (48:00).

Spud Hilton (@SpudHilton) is a travel expert, speaker, writer and host of the Inappropriate Traveler podcast.

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“It’s good as you travel to take the time to do nothing, and have nothing planned.” –Tim Leffel

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss the advantages of traveling to cheaper parts of the world (3:00); how living overseas can actually be cheaper than your life at home (13:00); strategies to save money on the road (23:00); setting a budget, and counterintuitive sightseeing (34:00); and breaking the myth of expensive European travel (51:00).

Tim Leffel (@timleffel) is an award-winning travel writer and author of The World’s Cheapest Destinations and A Better Life for Half the Price. He is the editor of the narrative web publication Perceptive Travel. For more about Tim, check out https://timleffel.com.

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“A writer tends to notice things that other people do not notice. And they are noticing so they can write about it.” – Paul Theroux

In this episode of Deviate, Paul Theroux and Rolf discuss their travels through Mexico and magical realism (4:30); teaching as a way to get to know a country and the importance of reading (20:00); and Paul’s experience traveling along the US-Mexico border and geo-political complexities between the two countries (29:00).

Paul Theroux (@PaulTheroux_) is a pioneer of travel writing and author of many highly acclaimed books, including The Great Railway Bazaar and The Tao of Travel. His work has appeared in such publications as the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and The Guardian. In 2015, Paul Theroux was awarded a Royal Medal from the Royal Geographical Society – an award, approved by the Queen, which is the highest award attainable for a traveler. His latest book, On the Plain of Snakes: A Mexican Journey, was released last month. He last talked with Rolf on Deviate Episode 31, “Paul Theroux on the art of listening, and the necessary obstacles of deep travel.”

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].