Deviate with Rolf Potts

“You do not have to feel beholden to the formula, but you do have to know the formula” – Benjamin Percy

In this episode of Deviate, we sit in on a lecture that Benjamin Percy gave at the 2019 Paris Writing Workshop, on the craft of screenwriting. 

Benjamin Percy (@Benjamin_Percy) is the author of four novels, including The Dead Lands, Red Moon, The Wilding, and The Dark Net. His other work includes numerous comics, his writing-craft book, Thrill Me, and his story collection Suicide Woods, out this month. His work has appeared in The Paris Review, The New York Times, and GQ. He currently writes the audio drama Wolverine, now in its second season, and is a regular on the lecture circuit, including at the Iowa Writers’ Workshop, the Breadloaf Writers’ Conference, the Tin House Writers’ Workshop, Aspen Summer Words, and the Paris Writing Workshop. Find more about Benjamin at http://benjaminpercy.com/.

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by the Paris Writing Workshop, a month-long creative writing workshop in the artistic heart of Europe. In addition to taking classes and participating in workshops, students will receive one-on-one consultations with professional writers, attend literary panel presentations, and give readings in Parisian venues. Core classes include Fiction, Poetry, Creative Nonfiction, Screenwriting as well as Submissions and Publications, a seminar that will give students information, insight and strategies for getting their portfolio work published.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“You have to think about the shelf-life of the tension you’re creating. There should be a bigger mystery on the other side of that expiration date.” – Benjamin Percy

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Benjamin discuss the idea that all fiction is essentially genre fiction (3:30); the movement of narrative and the idea that structure underlies all stories (15:00); learning “story math” (31:00); and research processes and work habits (42:00).

Benjamin Percy (@Benjamin_Percy) is the author of four novels, including The Dead Lands, Red Moon, The Wilding, and The Dark Net. His other work includes numerous comics, his writing-craft book, Thrill Me, and his story collection Suicide Woods, out this month. His work has appeared in The Paris Review, The New York Times, and GQ. He currently writes the audio drama Wolverine, now in its second season, and is a regular on the lecture circuit, including at the Iowa Writers’ Workshop, the Breadloaf Writers’ Conference, the Tin House Writers’ Workshop, Aspen Summer Words, and the Paris Writing Workshop. Find more about Benjamin at http://benjaminpercy.com/.

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by the Paris Writing Workshop, a month-long creative writing workshop in the artistic heart of Europe. In addition to taking classes and participating in workshops, students will receive one-on-one consultations with professional writers, attend literary panel presentations, and give readings in Parisian venues. Core classes include Fiction, Poetry, Creative Nonfiction, Screenwriting as well as Submissions and Publications, a seminar that will give students information, insight and strategies for getting their portfolio work published.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“To go off the beaten path, I use a guidebook.” – Pauline Frommer, quoting a young reader

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pauline discuss the founding of Frommer’s guidebooks and the guidebook revolution (3:30); curating content in the modern world (10:30); sidestepping travel-marketing content (17:15); how guidebooks have been tailored to meet the demands of current travelers (29:00); the impact of global over-tourism (38:00); and the pitfalls of travel, and how to start the process of planning one’s next trip (46:00).

Pauline Frommer (@Frommers) is the co-President of Frommer Media LLC, publisher of the Frommer’s Travel Guidebook series, for which Pauline is the Editorial Director. She is the author of the best-selling travel guide, Frommer’s EasyGuide to New York City and her writing has appeared in such publications as Budget Travel and Newsweek. Pauline is the co-host of Frommer’s Travel Show. 

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“All the crowds gravitate towards the name-brand national parks, and even within those parks there’s a handful of famous hikes or viewpoints that everybody visits. With a little knowledge, creative thinking, and physical effort, you can have a wilderness experience that’s peaceful and beautiful — and you’d never know there were big crowds elsewhere in the park.” –James Kaiser

James Kaiser (@JamesKaiser_) has written bestselling travel guidebooks to a number of American national parks, including Acadia, Joshua Tree, the Grand Canyon, Zion, and Yosemite. He speaks about national parks at elementary schools around the United States, and he is also the author of Costa Rica: The Complete Guide.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and James talk about their early experiences in American national parks (2:30); how to find national parks in a given part of the country, and the rewards of visiting lesser-known parks (14:00); how James became a guidebook author, and the kind of research he does at national parks (20:15); strategies for visiting parks in the 21st century, new trends and developments, and the effects of over-visitation (29:00); how to avoid crowds in national parks and similar American wilderness areas (35:00); strategies the parks use to lessen the impact of visitors (42:00); using (and avoiding) smartphones in national parks, and how social media has affected visitation trends (46:00); the impact of international visitors on national parks (50:00); and why national parks are special, and how to best approach them for first-time visitors (55:30).

Notable links:

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“I will never have another vagabonding journey that compares to that first one — even though I have since traveled to far more exotic parts of the world — in part because there’s something special about embarking on a long-term trip for the first time.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friend Jeff talk about their 8-month van trip across North America back in 1994, how they prepared for it, and how it differed from current-day #VanLife excursions (5:30); how they exercised on the road, and how the conditions and travel-hacks of van journeys were different for two young men in 1994 (23:30); the route they took through North America, what happened along the way, and how they kept daily journals recounting events (36:00); the experience riding with cops in Houston, celebrating Mardi Gras in New Orleans, volunteering at a church in Mississippi, meeting girls in Florida, and seeing New York for the first time (51:00); the experience of staying at a Trappist monastery in Massachusetts for one week (1:14:30); visiting National Parks in the American South, Northeast, and West, and memorable books read along the way (1:28:00); and why the trip was life-changing (1:42:00).

Links regarding the final months of the 1994 trip:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“Most people do not wake up and think, ‘I need more philosophy in my life.’ They do wake up and think ‘I have a problem and I need a solution’.” –Ryan Holiday

Ryan Holiday (@RyanHoliday) is an American marketer and entrepreneur, and the author of eight books, including The Obstacle is the Way, Ego is the Enemy, and Stillness is the Key, which debuts in bookstores this week.

In this episode of Deviate, Ryan and Rolf talk about “Big Idea” books, how Ryan’s philosophical trilogy of books came about, and how word-of-mouth works better than categorization in helping people find your books (3:00); how storytelling is better than dry analysis when it comes to writing books on a topic like Stoicism, and how writing for general audiences differs from writing for “elite” audiences (16:00); why ancient ideas and examples are often more dependable than contemporary ones, and why it’s good to read as diversely as possible (25:00); what a “commonplace book” is, and how it can fuel your creative life (32:30); the difference in focus between the research phase of a book and the writing phase, and how to best plan and structure books (48:00); Ryan’s writing habits, how he balances his day with non-writing tasks, and the importance of maintaining momentum (1:01:30); and the process of how he decides on which themes and projects to explore next (1:06:00).

Books mentioned:

Notable links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“In American Beauty, Lester Burnham’s rebellions seem adolescent and immature because that’s all he’s got. His world is so stultifying that you can either be a walking-dead adult or a footloose and fancy-free teenager. In retrospect that seems sad rather than triumphant.” –Kevin Smokler

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin talk about how American Beauty, a movie that seemed dazzling when it was released, eventually came to feel less original and interesting (2:50); which elements in the movie are still effective after 20 years (8:00); how the movie’s sour take on suburbia was not all that original by 1999 (16:30); how Lester Burnham’s epiphany at the end of the movie feels adolescent and regressive (30:00); the ways that many of the movie’s themes don’t fully jibe with the human motivations of the characters (38:30); and the movie’s take on the isolations of American masculinity (50:00).

Kevin Smokler (@weegee) is a writer, public speaker, critic, and author of Brat Pack America and Practical Classics. He speaks on the future of media and culture and his written work has appeared in such publications as the Los Angeles Times, Buzzfeed, and Vulture. He previously appeared as a guest on Episode 33 of Deviate, Why 1980s coming-of-age movies matter., and Episode 60, Celebrating the best travel movies ever.

Notable Links:

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“The importance of Do the Right Thing out-lives all of the arguments against it. It embarrasses its critics, in a lot of ways. Spike Lee really is having the last laugh on this one.” –Wesley Morris

In this episode of Deviate, Wesley and Rolf talk about what Do the Right Thing is about, and why it’s a unique and extraordinary movie (2:45); how the characters are both sympathetic and unsympathetic, and how the movie isn’t trying to teach a tidy lesson (12:00); how Spike Lee’s story ideas from the 1980s feel relevant to social conditions in the 2010s (17:30); how the movie is more like Greek tragedy than a raw realistic depiction of its setting and story (23:00); the conditions of filmmaking for black artists in the 1980s (28:00); the way Do the Right Thing attracted a kind of panic from social critics when it came out (33:15); Spike Lee’s strategic use of powerful music, visuals, and blocking in the movie (37:00); the fact the Barack and Michelle Obama saw this movie on their first date, and how Spike Lee wanted the movie to be classified as a One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest-style comedy (41:00); Rolf’s interest in and personal experience with the film living in Wichita in 1989 (45:45); and the narrative specificity of the details in the film, and how they parallel real-life events (49:45).

Wesley Morris (@Wesley_Morris) the Pulitzer Prize-winning critic at large for the New York Times. Formerly the co-host of the Grantland podcast “Do You Like Prince Movies?”, he now co-hosts the “Still Processing” podcast with Times colleague Jenna Wortham. He previously appeared on Episode 41 of Deviate, Wesley Morris on podcast-fame, sports, and performing blackness in America.

Notable links:

This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“That’s one of the great things about walking-based travel in Europe: You get away from expectations. When you plan a traditional sightseeing trip you already have an idea in your mind of what you’re going to see. But when you just let the trail unfold you can let things go — and let things come to you — and really soak in the culture in a different way.” –Cassandra Overby

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Cassandra talk about Cassandra’s early decision to focus on trekking-travel rather than standard tourism in Europe (3:30); how trekking in Europe is cheaper, more immersive, and more social than American trekking (11:30); which classic European trails make for “bucket list” hikes, and how to find and research less-famous ones (19:00); strategies for combining hikes with public transportation, choosing the best time of year to hike, preparing physically for the journey, and whether to hike alone or with a companion (26:00); how to reserve trails, facilities, luggage-transfers, and guides in advance (32:45); useful apps, navigation aids, guidebooks, and gear for trekking in Europe (38:00); and how to use mountain huts and plan “rest days” on treks (52:30).

Cassandra Overby is the author of Explore Europe on Foot: Your Complete Guide to Planning a Cultural Hiking Adventure, which aims to help travelers find ways to discover Europe without depending on cars, buses and trains. The book provides overviews of fifteen long-distance trails (and day hikes) in Belgium, France, Italy, Germany, Great Britain, Morocco, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, and Turkey, with itineraries that range from one to fifteen days.

Notable links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

“I will wake up at 7am and think to myself, ‘Why am I doing this?’ But then I get on the trail and I’m meeting people and seeing things that are just so beautiful, that I never would have seen unless I was walking. When the day ends I’m always thankful that I made that decision to get up and just go.” –Forrest Mallard

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Forrest talk about how they know each other, and how Forrest got into travel (4:00); the time-honored tradition of walking, and why hiking is a fantastic way to travel in and experience other countries (9:45); the tradition of the Camino de Santiago, and Forrest’s humbling early experiences with international trekking on the West Highland Way (21:30); Forrest’s further adventures and counterintuitive tips for how to prepare and what to pack on a trek (37:00); the appeal of hiking in Slovenia (45:00); and advice for getting started, saving money, meeting people, and getting in touch with yourself while trekking (49:00).

Forrest Mallard is the founder of Tramposaurus Treks, a camping and adventure-travel planning community that aims to show people just how accessible, affordable and doable international hiking excursions can be. Forrest currently splits his time between Dubai and far-flung destinations and backcountry trekking trails around the world, including – in recent months – Pakistan, Hunza Hanging Bridge, Fairy Meadows, Chilas, Granada, and Valencia.

Notable Links:

This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].