Even now our beloved host Ryan doesn’t know what he thinks about Russian interference in the 2016 election. So, he is joined by Garrett Graff, a journalist and author who continually re-examines the question: What is the truth behind the “Russia, Russia, Russia” scandal? How real and deep was their involvement in US politics in the past decade, and how important ultimately was it — or the idea of it?

Our guest is Garrett Graff, host of the Long Shadow podcast, previously a national security journalist while all of these Russian interference allegations began, and the ⁠author of several books⁠. Check out Long Shadow ⁠here⁠ or wherever you get your podcasts, and follow Garrett’s other work at ⁠Doomsday Scenario⁠.

This episode is sponsored by Uncommon Goods. To get 15% off your next gift, go to ⁠https://www.uncommongoods.com/panicworld⁠ !

Want even more Panic World content? Like ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, and access to the Garbage Day Discord? Sign up for a membership at:⁠ https://www.patreon.com/PanicWorld⁠.

And if you want to see this conversation on video, ⁠⁠Panic World is now posting episodes to YouTube!

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices