Digital Marketing from the Trenches Live at the Hive

In this episode of “Digital Marketing from the Trenches,” your co-hosts Dan Nedelko and Joseph DellaVecchia discuss the differences between Account-Based Marketing (ABM) and Business-to-Business (B2B) marketing.

B2B is a subset of ABM, emphasizing the importance of understanding ideal customer profiles and target accounts. While ABM focuses on high-value, personalized engagement, while B2B casts a wider net.

There is still a need for a strong sales and marketing alignment, effective cold email outreach strategies, and the role of platforms like LinkedIn Sales Navigator all play a part in getting better more actionable information.

We also touch on the importance of diverse content and authentic engagement on LinkedIn to build relationships and maintain interest throughout the sales process.

Dan Nedelko 0:09
And welcome everybody to another episode of live at the hive digital marketing from the trenches. I am your host, Dan Nedelko, and I’m here with

Joseph DellaVecchia 0:19
Joe dellavecchio, one of your other hosts as well. And I feel like it was co host, but I feel like at this point I’ve been promoted. I’m promoting myself,

Dan Nedelko 0:25
okay, promoting yourself to host. I am now the co host with Joe. There we go. We are. We are co hosts, truly co hosts. Welcome to another episode of digital marketing from the trenches. And in this episode. We are going to talk more about ABM. As we started out this process, we thought it would be an episode. We quickly realized it was going to be a whole bunch of episodes. There’s a lot to unpack today. We’re going to be talking about the distinct differences between Account Based Marketing and B to B marketing, which often get conflated. So we’re going to talk a little bit about the two differences between the two approaches, how B to B is actually kind of a subset of ABM, and you can actually prep your B to B or your ABM efforts, I should say, by creating a strong infrastructure on B to B marketing, which is really time well spent.

Joseph DellaVecchia 1:23
There we go. Bit of a mouthful there, little

Dan Nedelko 1:26
bit, little bit. And I ad libbed that

Joseph DellaVecchia 1:30
it was very it was very smooth, very well done.

Dan Nedelko 1:32
Thank you reliving my high school drama days. So yeah, but just

Joseph DellaVecchia 1:37
to build on what you were saying there, Dan, one thing that we talk about all the time. We’re talking about as the inspiration for this episode is just how often so many people think they’re ready for ABM, but they’re not ready for ABM. And we touched on that a little bit in our last episode, but and we talked about so too, the how sales and marketing alignment needs to be strong, and in order to that, you have to have a fair understanding of what each thing is. So let’s just quickly go back and let’s recap what is ABM from what we talked about last time, ABM is Account Based Marketing. It’s a strategic approach that focuses on targeting and engaging specific, high value accounts, rather than casting a wide net. It’s a method that aligns marketing and sales efforts to create personalized buying experiences for key accounts. ABM treats individual accounts and markets as their own right. It involves tailoring marketing campaigns and content specific accounts, and it’s data driven and relies heavily on customer insights and also on teamwork as well, and being able to align your initiatives objectives and taking the data real time and reports and being able to adjust your strategies effectively.

Dan Nedelko 2:43
There you go. Actually, it’s funny because in one of our clips from the last episode that we put up on YouTube, someone said, like that, looks Joe looks like he’s this guy looks like he’s reading from his script. And actually, it’s funny because you weren’t reading from a script. No,

Joseph DellaVecchia 2:55
I was not reading from I did see that too and that, yeah, they were like, reading from a script and not talking to anyone, and I’m like, I am very much just talking to someone about marketing right now, and

Dan Nedelko 3:06
I’m the person that doesn’t exist in that conversation, which I don’t know if that says something or what it might mean. But anyhow, getting back to the matter at hand, yeah, so ABM, and I’ll talk a little bit about B to B as well, but ABM really has a significant portion of it that is philosophical and and structural to your organization, about how you sell, about understanding the customers, about aligning sales and marketing at a fairly deep level, and where BDRs and SDRs can Actually, in certain functions, be part of the marketing team, and in other functions, they’re part of the sales team, but you have this kind of very strong alignment between the two groups and that and that goes deeper than a platform. It goes much deeper than how you target accounts, etc. So it really takes a lot of heavy lifting, especially when it’s new for businesses to really get their heads around how this can work collaboratively. So it’s, it’s definitely a heavy lift, right? I mean, it’s, it’s not something you’re just going to walk in one day and say, Okay, everybody we’re doing ABM, and it’s just going to start happening. So, yeah, yeah. So you know it’s, it’s definitely non trivial, and then, you know, we’ll get into it, but on the B to B side, and we have this little visual that I drew in, like two seconds. But if you were to imagine a circle of ABM and encompassed inside that completely is a smaller circle of B to B. Like a lot of what you need to do in the ABM side, you need to do for effective B to B marketing, but just to kind of follow on exactly what you said, then what is B to B? Right? If that’s all that stuff is ABM, then what is B to B? Well, there’s some real distinct property. Of what B to B marketing is. And one it obviously does come down where target accounts are really much more granular at the B to B level, they’re a little bit more general, but you still do have to understand your ideal customer profiles. Who are you selling to? Right? And one of the things that I will often hear, and I know you do too, Joe, is you’ll hear, oftentimes people say, I’ll use an example. We sell to government. That’s our ideal customer. And then the reply would be, okay, well, let’s look at government. It’s a huge topic. If you were looking at government, you’ve got everything from small townships to cities to municipalities to major centers like the GTA, for example, and then you have provincial, and then you have federal, and then you have provincial, and in the US, you’d have state level. And then inside of that, you’ve got various departments, from military to civic, civic works to, I mean, all sorts of stuff, right?

Joseph DellaVecchia 6:11
And then to just, sorry, just to build on that, though, like, I think that’s part of like, the battle too. I think that people don’t realize that knowing this part is half the battle. You say to someone, do you know who your target account is? Do you know who you’re going after, who you’re marketing to? And they say, just build on your example, yeah, government. So let’s go market to government. But they don’t realize that that’s knowing the industry, or possibly even the persona, but the specific contexts and who you need to talk to, the decision makers, the people who are going to champion you, who are going to be interested, who are going to sign on the dotted line you need to know, not in you don’t have to have met them in person, or them particularly, but you need to know those to effectively market to them with an ABM strategy,

Dan Nedelko 6:54
yeah, yeah. And you need to for a B to B strategy as well. Because again, we’re going to go through some of these brush strokes as we go through this conversation. One of the things is, if you don’t really know who in the government and what department and who the buying group is and where you’re trying to get to, and if you start advertising on a LinkedIn, for example, for brand awareness and government, 90% of your spend is going to be entirely wasted on the wrong people that have absolutely no connection to where it is your your what it is you’re selling and who you’re selling to. So step one in B to B is developing an ideal customer and an ideal account profile. Now that’s ahead of target accounts, right? Like you, you have to know what that is in fairly specific terms, right to understand your sales to in order to be able to develop that target account list. So we’re not there yet. We’re but in B to B, the first step would be, who are you selling to? And and be ruthless with yourself if you’re in B to B sales, to really dissect this and really understand it, because nine times out of 10 in a conversation, the definition of that ideal customer profile is far too broad. It’s far too encompassing. It does not specify, you know, is it procurement? Is it a field operations person? So I’ll give you like another example. In government at a certain level, various managers and directors within a government will have discretionary budgets throughout a year. They can purchase up to some level, right? If your product falls below that threshold, call it $100,000 a year. Maybe that’s your threshold for the service or product that you’re selling. Well, if that’s within a discretionary budget for those people, then you can market directly to them, right? And that sales process can begin within any allotted period of time, not fixed to budgetary restrictions, unless that becomes part of, you know, a lack of budget on that director’s position or that manager’s position. That’s like scenario one. In scenario two, you’re above this threshold, and so therefore your marketing into the next fiscal year and possibly going through a procurement process where you would use a platform, say, like, go bonfire, to find procurements and RFPs and RFQs and begin submitting those now so that you’re in time for the next budgetary cycle. Like, that’s a, that’s a. I mean, admittedly, I think you would agree, whether you know you’ve been through that process or not. Those are two big differences, right? And traditionally,

Joseph DellaVecchia 9:50
too, regardless if you look at like, even just a step back from ABM, but look at B to B as a whole, it’s usually a long sales process when you’re selling. Something B to B, ABM, especially if you look at it from beginning to end, if you look at someone who starts up with ABM from a cold outrage, you’ve sourced that contact. You find out who you’re contacting, and you’re going out, and now you’re sending out cold outbound emails. You’re advertising to them. They’re in your audience. You’re trying to get their attention on social with that, and building that out from the point where you they will eventually get engaged, start to be warmed, take a call with you. Understand your product, take that back. Then corporate boards have to make their decisions. It becomes a long, long process right there. And so ABM has its benefits of not just supporting that long process throughout, but keeping people engaged throughout the entire time, and they’re not going to lose interest or suddenly just forget about you. It keeps you top of mind. So even if Dan, for example, I’m trying to sell to you and get you to buy my product, but you got to take it back to your board of directors. It’s going to take you guys three months, because currently you’re reviewing this other project, then you have to go through next year’s budgets. Does it fit into your fiscal year? Etc, etc. I’m still sending you emails every week, or every two weeks. You’re still seeing my content online on social media. We’ve connected on LinkedIn, maybe once a month. I’m just reaching out to send you our latest case study, so you know what’s going on and how it can continue to benefit you, what you can bring up to your leaders. So there’s it supports that process the entire time. And so if you do end up one of those situations, you’re not just trying to do a cold outreach every three months or just trying to as well, reach out, reach out and close the deal, close the deal, close the deal. Because traditionally, especially in B to B, doesn’t work like

Dan Nedelko 11:32
that, right? And I now I’m compelled to say something about cold email outreach that is also oftentimes misconstrued. Right the point of cold email outreaches to develop a relationship where you you that person knows who you are, it is not to sell immediately. That is the number one feedback that we get from from any sales team is, well, like my cold sales outreach, I want them to book a meeting, I want them to book a meeting, but booking a meeting is is very close to potentially closing a deal, right, like it’s within that funnel, and so you’re going for it too quickly and misunderstanding what the idea of a cold outreach cadence is all about. Is about building that trust they know who you are. So many multiple opens on a cold outreach, where someone is engaging with that and where you can just send a personalized email, like, that’s a B to B, function often done improperly, because it’s the first email you’ve seen them, right? I get, like, I get like, three a day, same

Joseph DellaVecchia 12:41
I think we get them from the same people too, which is funny enough, but especially too and like, and let’s say you have a five step core, and I’ve talked to clients about this before, you’ve got a five step cold outreach sequence, and they’re like, oh, but you know, I want to have book. I don’t want to, like, knock without saying, book a meeting. Like, in like, the fifth step, you can put that out there. You can make the offer for the meeting and have it as a button, a link, however, you have it set up with your CRM, but you can have that option for book a meeting, but don’t just come out of the gates on the first one firing, hey, I’m Joe. You’re gonna love this. Let’s book a meeting and talk about it like you know nothing about me. You know nothing about the product I’m selling. You know nothing about the benefits or what pain points I’m addressing. Like, it’s, it’s a, it’s like, when someone comes to your door, door to door, sale, someone knocks on your door, and they’re like, you you need this like, no, no, I don’t What do you know? It’s building that relationship and having that understanding and showing them not only do you understand, you care and you’re going to help solve it Well,

Dan Nedelko 13:36
exactly. And I mean oftentimes that the misappropriation of this ideal customer profile is C suite executives and higher level directors are included in these lists. So the lists are not well thought out, because the I the ideal customer profile needs to be well thought out. It needs to be targeted. Because again, to your point, if you are going after VPs and senior level directors or C suite folks, their calendars are jam packed, right? Booking a call is a privilege in that world, and that’s the first thing you’re asking for. It’s, it’s, it’s, there’s a certain level of entitlement that comes with that that could be misread by a very important person in your target what is your ideal customer profile, and potentially within one of your target accounts. So you could be hurting yourself by doing this too quickly. So when we, when we just to roll back a little bit, because I think we’ve got a few items to get in here, like, what are the elements of B to B that can be implemented before Account Based Marketing? And just the cherry on top of that, I’ll throw that one over to you, because I know you’ve got a bit of a laundry list on that. The second part of it is, is, don’t feel bad. Add about saying I’m not ready for ABM. We’re not organizationally ready. ABM is a buzzword that everybody wants to use, like a badge of honor, that they’re doing, but a lot of people are not. Do. They’re say they’re doing ABM, but they’re not doing it properly, which means you might as well not be doing ABM,

Joseph DellaVecchia 15:17
right? Yeah. It’s, it’s the next stepping stone. Gradually, you start with B to B, and then you can take that next step to ABM, and that’s why we say and how you said a little bit earlier. Dan, you know, if you’re doing ABM, you’re doing B to B, but if you’re doing B to B, that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re doing ABM, and that’s not a bad thing, especially if you’re just getting started. Because if you’re starting off with B to B, you’re able to start your advertising, and you’re able to start building those target account lists and understanding your target account, your target customer, and being able to get to that end point of having that list built and start targeting them individually. And at that time, too, you’ve probably done some cold email outreach, you’ve done some cold calling, you’ve built some relationships which are going to help you along the way. Now, how do ABM and traditional B to B marketing though? Defer, which was, I know, the original question you asked me, ABM inverts the sales funnel. It starts with identifying specific accounts, like we’ve went over, while traditional B to B casts that wider net. Now your traditional B to B advertising could be, you know, your target audience, for example, like, you know, it’s in government. So you’re going to start advertising out with government, with that vertical, and building an audience from there, maybe building a look alike audience, building some remarketing to then start to strengthen that audience as well too. ABM is going to focus on quality of leads, though, instead of the quantity of leads, where you might get a lot of people doing B to B with ABM, you’re able to focus on those high quality leads, the ones that matter and that are engaged and that are those decision makers. Yes, there’s going to be less of them, but they’re the people that you’re going after, the people that are more likely to be engaged, and the people that will actually matter, because they’ll sign on the dotted line, you’ll get their business, versus if you’re going after someone who is maybe just a manager at a company when you need a senior VP. ABM, results are really, really great from recent studies. They typically show results of a higher ROI. 76% of companies actually reported higher ROI with ABM compared to other marketing initiatives last year.

Dan Nedelko 17:10
Yeah. And I think one of the important things to highlight on that is one of the reasons you do report higher ROI is fundamentally because you understand your customer, you understand their needs, and you’ve created these target account lists that are fairly specific, so you’re doing a better job of fundamental sales, which is understanding my customer, right? And that turns into but like to start with where B to B is different, where we will cast a wider net is you could start by casting a wider net by saying, We’re in government, and then doing a workshop and working through, okay, what areas of government? Well, you should know that. And then who’s a typical buyer, you probably know some of that. And you can get the starting points of casting a slightly wider net, watching what’s happening with both the advertising and we’ll go over some of the channels for B to B that can be used to be to start this effective program, and watching this work and seeing who’s engaging and where you close the deal in that process, is understanding and mapping it. That’s like the first step to getting over into Account Based Marketing?

Joseph DellaVecchia 18:24
Yeah, it’s like, I said it’s a stepping stone. I think we’ve highlighted that it really is important, though, to just understand that it’s not something you can just dive into. So many people want to just dive in, and they’re like, I’m a thought leader. I can get in there. I know who I’m selling to. And we talked about it in our last episode, too. Sales people always like, Oh, if you can just get me in front of the person i The person. I can sell, I can close the deal. Just get me talking like, right in front of the person. You need to build to that point, though, I can’t just pick you up and plop you right down and then you’re able to just have that conversation. Need you to the point where, because the conversation was a two way street, they need to be engaged. They need to be interested. Sure, you can maybe get them at a show and just walk up and talk to them, but everyone’s doing that. And not to say shows aren’t a valid way of doing business and building relationships. You can’t just go in and close. You can’t just get that coffee that’s for the closer right away.

Dan Nedelko 19:10
Yeah, for sure. And and no, like, live events, conferences are key. Like, they’re critical. It’s how you kind of manage that and deal with it. And I think another element of this is understanding it all comes down to understanding your customer, and who are you targeting? Because so much comes from that into there was a threat I was involved in on LinkedIn earlier this week, which was which type of a presentation should you send? Do you send a PowerPoint? Do you send a Word doc with this was the context of that with a bunch of bullet points. Do you send a very brief summary in an email? My response was, Well, it really depends, like it depends on if you’re talking to the CEO that typically you know the profile of the CEO that writes the entire email in the subject line. You might want to be very brief if you were talking. Talking to the CMO, you may want to go with the PowerPoint. If you’re talking to the COO, you may want to use the word doc that has a bit more detail, because they’re in operations like it depends. And what you’re

Joseph DellaVecchia 20:11
saying Dan is you need to understand who you’re speaking to, and you need to target your approach that way. That’s similar to what you would do in ABM, exactly,

Dan Nedelko 20:19
well, and these are the fundamental pillars that cross over like you need to do it in B to B, and you need to do it more and in a more refined way. For ABM, yeah, of course, yeah. So totally okay. So moving on. So let’s talk about, you know this B to B approach is casting a bit of a wider net, not completely randomly wide, but let’s say you’re ahead of the curve. You’re a bit ahead, you know, maybe you, and this is a good kumbaya moment, is admitting we don’t have a perfect handle on our ideal customers. Because it’s like knowing is half the battle, right? Like GI Joe and saying, Okay, this is going to be a focus for three months, six months, whatever it might be, and an ongoing focus, ideally, right to say that’s going to evolve. And so we want to keep a finger on the pulse of how that works. So we cast a slightly wider net. We’re doing B to B, we’re getting into market. We’re keeping an eye on who we’re connecting with, what their role is, and looking at the sales process, because oftentimes this is not documented. But then what we want to do is look at, you know, what are the channels? Okay? So we’re going to start doing this right? So we have several channels that we can use in B to B and in ABM, but starting with the B to B side, right? We’ve obviously got cold email and lists, so you can start from wider lists and start to pull those down as you start to see engagement on it. That’s kind of thing number one. The second one is your website, right? What does your website say? Is it full of billboard or poster style? Like it’s pretty, but there isn’t a whole ton of information, because people didn’t want to use words on the website, you know? So you have to look at that as well.

Joseph DellaVecchia 22:18
I find the biggest issue with website, just in what we see all the time is that your eye people are either doing too much content because they’re like, oh, there’s so much you have to tell them about their brand, and they have to understand this, and they have to know that. And that’s just classic overthinking and over complication. Like, you know it makes sense. You’re so close to it, you know it so well. And that’s why it helps to have a third party, or just someone come in, take a step back and say, this is the basic information. But then where people fall a little short is they make it a little too small, and then there isn’t enough information, or it’s not providing context, or it’s just not providing value, it’s not engaging, it’s not interesting, versus the competition or a competing product,

Dan Nedelko 22:56
yeah, absolutely. And I think part of it is also looking at the content on your website and saying, strategically, there’s lots of paths like so yes, there’s a product page that’s kind of front and center, but we have Cornerstone pages that I can use in my cold outreach. If I see somebody is looking at a certain type of content, that we can prepare this content, so I can easily send it to somebody and they can find it right? So, yeah, it’s it’s all about understanding how to chapterize your content and tell a story, right, depending on which way you go. Because if you’re talking to someone in finance, it’s a different story than if you’re talking to someone in product or in marketing, right? Would typically be very different. They have very different concerns. So that’s kind of the first place you want to look at your website. Second one, and I know you’ve got some firm thoughts on this, Joe, is that LinkedIn, and what companies are doing with LinkedIn? So I

Joseph DellaVecchia 23:55
was gonna say, speaking of providing value LinkedIn in their tagline. It’s where B to B happens. And the important thing about B to B, whether it’s sales, your cold outreaches, whatever you’re doing, when it comes to B to B, you have to have value in what you’re saying. We’ve already established CEOs, these decision makers. They’re busy. They’re hectic. The corporate life is always running. It’s a machine that never stops turning. And if you don’t have something of value to say, nobody cares. You know, at the end of the day, Let’s call a spade a spade. If you don’t have something of value, this thing to offer, nobody cares. And that’s why it seems to be important that you’re not repeating yourself so taking your company’s content and just reposting it without adding anything additional on that. If they’re already following their company and they’re following you. They don’t care that you’ve reposted. You’re not adding anything extra there and value to help elevate this and bring it more forward. You are showing it to more of your audience and your network. But that’s also not only you building on that. You want to build on the actual content itself. If you’re a thought leader, write something that relates to it. Have actual thought. Leadership and have something to say. And also, then don’t just say the same things over and over and over again. You know, this is your one core message, repeat, repeat, repeat. At that point, I’ve seen it once this week. I’ve seen it three times this week. I’ve seen it 10 times this month. I’ve seen it enough times where I get it, you know, it’s like, it’s a bad soap opera. I get it, tell me something new. Tell me something new, tell me something interesting. Tell me something that is going to appeal to me, address a pain point or engage me. And that’s the great thing about the world. Things are always changing. Things are always becoming new. Focuses right now, a really big focus is inflation. Is the economy. So how are you helping solve that pain point? Possibly, maybe in a year. Now, it’s, Hey, there’s a lot of excess spending. You know, you have to finish using your budget by the end of the year. Here’s what you can invest that money in to actually help further your company, further the technology that you’re using. So there’s always a different angle that is timely and relevant and that will get people’s attention and say something new and interesting and keep people engaged, which goes back to what we were talking about before, keeping people engaged through that long sales process. Yeah, if you don’t have something valuable or new to say, you’re not going to get your point across, sorry, Dan, go ahead.

Dan Nedelko 26:05
Yeah, no, I was going to say, I think, I think one of the things is, is don’t be afraid. And I think a lot of people that are not native to social have real hesitancy to do this. But as a professional in your field, you will have a take on almost everything that happens, and don’t be afraid to convey that. I mean, the point about LinkedIn is it’s like the business cocktail party, where you’ve got a chance to open a conversation, but also participate in conversations. What I personally see a lot of is a lot of thankfulness. Posts like, we’re grateful for our partners doing this. We’re grateful for this show. Thank you so much for this. Thank you so much for that. That’s great, but not 100% of the time, because it does become fairly repetitive. And what you want to also do is look at industry, industry highlights, industry changes, what’s happening? What is your specific take? Because if you’re in sales in 2024 I’m of the firm belief that you are selling a solution, so you are a domain expert that can help a client solve a problem. And when you could do that, your sales will magnify incredibly right? So what’s the editorial take that you’ve got on either your company, right? So if you’re if, if, if, if your company has just been handed a major award, great, what is the implication of that on your target client? Right? Right? If we won great place to work, and we have the badge, and we’ve gone through that process, it means that our team is highly engaged because we’ve gone through this process. I’m using a very poor example there. But how does what your company has done as an organization impacting you and your potential customers in a more specific way. So expanding upon something that’s happening, there’s industry moves and industry happenings that you can comment on as if you know it’s an op ed, right? This is going to be a net benefit for our industry for these three reasons, right? That could be new legislation. It could be anything that’s happening there, but this provides a depth of content on LinkedIn that people will see and people do react to. So please stop trying to gloss over social content and overproduce it, because it shows and when you look at it contextually, it doesn’t look great. It looks very forced, right on the social selling and LinkedIn side, the second part of it is participate in conversations. And oftentimes I’ll go look at people’s LinkedIn profiles, and you see a lot of like, great, great stuff. Great job. Congratulations, congratulations, congratulations, congratulations. Like, very good. It’s nice to do those things, but how about engaging in a thread of conversation where you’re able to give your professional opinion and participate in the conversation more substantially. It takes a little bit of effort, not a ton, but it can also make a huge amount of difference. So with LinkedIn, there’s a ton of work both to do organizationally, to provide that value of thought leadership at a micro level, at the individual level, it is actually a lot easier. What’s your take on XYZ that’s happening, right? Because that stuff, that stuff really does exist,

Joseph DellaVecchia 29:47
I think too, just to kind of tie it all together, is that there’s just such a hesitancy on LinkedIn to diversify your content. And it gets to the point where everything kind of starts to see the same, like we were saying. But it also. It reads and feels like everything’s an ad, even when it’s not trying to be. There’s always that very obvious call to action, or that obvious book that then gets you reading about the product and what it does, even if you don’t directly mention the product, but you’re mentioning the pain point that you’re solving, you suddenly have that call to action, or that book of collar. Let’s talk more. Right at the bottom, it’s an ad. And the one thing that you have in common between B to B and your B to C is that people are still we’re all still humans. And the last thing we want to see is every single post be an ad. Whether I’m looking at what my friends are doing on Instagram or I’m looking at what things are happening professionally in the world of LinkedIn, I want to see what’s happening in life. I want to see those updates, and I want to see those things that are interesting to me and brands can be interesting still on LinkedIn, while still keeping their brand voice. Whether you’re a little bit more professional or you are a little bit more loose or you’re just completely unhinged, like Wendy’s Twitter was back in 28 wherever you are on the sector, you can have but there’s still that way to have fun and diversify your content a little bit while still keeping it relevant and important. And there’s just such that resistance to do that. And I understand people are like, well, what if the target sees it and suddenly they’re not seeing the most important thing there is that fear. But if they see and they engage with your content, I can guarantee you the algorithm is going to show it again. Yep,

Dan Nedelko 31:13
absolutely. And there’s a lot to unpack. We could do, obviously, a whole series on just LinkedIn. But I think you know, some of the key takeaways are, try to be authentic. Try to provide your own unique angle to it. Don’t repeat over and over. Come up with a few different themes for both your organization and for you yourself. Don’t be afraid to get in and engage in content and content threads. That’s where a lot of the magic actually happens. It’s the first, most natural starting point. If you’re afraid or hesitant to actually post content, participate in other threads where that content is relevant, that’s like a great first starting point. In fact, it’s going to grow your network almost more than anything you do post right is by participating in those other conversations, exactly, which segues in a beautiful way. Because, again, we’re over time, but we’re gonna we’re getting close here. So we were right about turning this into a huge series about B to B, and ABM sales

Joseph DellaVecchia 32:16
was still the first episode.

Dan Nedelko 32:19
Yeah, this is one like, if you did one episode, it’d be 12 hours long, to be honest, at least. So naturally segueing from LinkedIn into Sales Navigator, which is becoming a very popular tool, one because of the quality of the B to B information, and people are using it as if it’s kind of a zoom info or Apollo to find contact information in your network and to identify people that would be key drivers, champions and decision makers in key accounts. Now the important thing here is that sales navigators a lot more than that in the context of what LinkedIn is, and this is a really important thing is it’s a great opportunity for you to go through that target account process. So starting with ideal customer profile, ideal company profile, casting a little bit of a wider net, creating larger lists in sales nav. What sales nav does really well is it reveals to you these threads from those people, whether they’re commenting elsewhere or whether they’re they’ve got posts available. It does both for you to go and engage with those people in a natural way, right? If they’re in a thread of conversation, potentially, then you can participate in that thread and they’ll start to see your name. It’s fairly subtle, but it happens. There’s, I guess the point of this point here is, with Sales Navigator, it’s a lot more than a B to B database, which is oftentimes how Sales Navigator is treated. It is that, but it’s a lot more. And Sales Navigator can give you lots of good connection opportunities, including second and third degree connections, where your target is commenting and posting, so you can participate in similar conversations, and it again, kind of like cold calling and cold emailing, it allows you to develop that relationship that can then turn into a commercial relationship later on, at least that person knows who you are.

Joseph DellaVecchia 34:25
Sales, navigators, it’s a useful tool overall, and there are others like it too, which we’ll talk about at a later date and time. But there’s also the ability to that it, as you’re saying, it helps you build your network and your audience as well, too. And there are other tools as well that can help you do that. It doesn’t all just have to live on LinkedIn. A really great one that a lot of people use and to build audiences is Google as well, and you’ve got your responsive display where you can also build and build your response display to your targets and your target audiences. Well, you can do the same thing on LinkedIn Sales navigators. A great tool. And like we’ve said before, everything here kind of works in tandem. It’s a stepping stone where you go logically from the next to the next to the next. And as you build that out, you work your way towards ABM.

Dan Nedelko 35:10
That’s right, that’s right. And there’s a few others now, like when you get to Sales Navigator, you can build account lists. You can build your lead list, a lot like you were saying there, Joe, you can actually get those out. And you can put them into Google. You can put them into platforms like stack adapt as you build out these lists, and starting in a broad way, which is B to B, right, you can, we can load those into advertising platforms, LinkedIn, Microsoft, Google and Google responsive display example that will get you, like a run of the network across as many different touch points as possible. It’s a starting point, right? And then you can work on that ideal customer profile, the ideal company profile, and start to develop those target accounts and the one to one accounts that are important to you. But again, on this kind of spectrum of business to business, you got to do the fundamentals before you can get to the ABM, which is a little bit more advanced. Once you get to that more advanced level, you can use platforms like we prefer. One of them is called influ two, which is a pretty amazing platform, which allows you to target across multiple different touch points, mobile, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, websites, Google networks, everywhere to specific high value clients or target accounts and target, uh, contacts, right? With highly, highly personalized experiences. But again, that’s kind of like the other end of that spectrum. When you’re in ABM, you’re going to be able to make that investment, because you’ll see it’s real. So I guess, to wrap this episode up, we’re still, we’re not perfect, but we’re, we’re better than we were our time. In terms of our time, we’re at 37 minutes right now. So for us, that’s not bad, not bad. I think just to, just to wrap up and summarize for our audience, is B to B is really a subset of ABM. You have fundamental core pillars, just like if you’re playing baseball, you know you gotta know how to throw a ball, regardless of what position you play, right? You gotta know how to swing a bat. And that’s what a big part of B to B getting started in is, is, is doing the fundamentals. And don’t be afraid to start by saying, I don’t have 100% clarity on my ideal customer profile, so I can’t build my target accounts yet. So you can start wider, and you can pull in, and then you can look at your website content, your LinkedIn strategy, your sales nav strategy, your LinkedIn advertising strategy, how you advertise in general, and where that can lead you once you have the definition into an Account Based Marketing approach. So that’s a bit of the summary. Joe, I don’t know if you have anything else to add. I hope they didn’t steal any of your thunder in that.

Joseph DellaVecchia 38:15
No, no, no. I think just to build on that, yeah, like you said, it’s the first step. It’s the stepping stone. Like we said, with B to B, you’re gonna learn, understand and develop your ICPs, and once you have those ideal customer profiles, you’re then gonna be to start moving towards building your target account list and start getting into B to B, which I think Dan is a great place to pick up our next episode.

Dan Nedelko 38:39
Perfect. And what’s coming up next Joe,

Joseph DellaVecchia 38:41
next Dan. We’re gonna talk about target account list. We’re gonna review what they are, how you build one, how long they should be, and how do you integrate them into your strategy. And then how does that relate to enriching data, which could be another future episode.

Dan Nedelko 38:55
I mean, I think you’re giving away the content schedule here, which is fine. Actually, I’m teasing. I know you are. I know you are. I think one of the things that we should point out too, is when we do these, I just had this great idea is we will pair these with workshop walk through tutorials, if you’re in the nitty gritty of apollo.io, and LinkedIn Sales Navigator, where I’ll be walking through using these platforms in the screen share style. So we’ll kind of do both. We’ll have the episode, and we’re going to pair that with the YouTube video where we’re going to show you how to use the platform, how to add the filters, how to actually make those things happen, and what that looks like as well. So good times, exciting times for the B to B in ABM world. All right, friends. Well, thanks so much for joining us on another episode of live at the hive, digital marketing from the trenches. I mean digital marketing from the trenches live at the hive. I don’t know. It doesn’t really matter. As long as you’re here listening, then we’re happy with that. So thanks.

Joseph DellaVecchia 39:58
This is your first time try. Out, like a previous episode, we’ve got so much more on ABM. We’ve got stuff on Google business profile. We read Reddit stories together about marketing and sales the other week, and that was a blast.

Dan Nedelko 40:09
And we will be doing that again, because that is a ton of fun. We’ll find more craziness from the Reddit world. Yes, we have over 250 episodes of digital marketing from the trenches and tons of tons of videos. So please subscribe, like, follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Donate to your favorite charity. Hug your wife and kids your partner. Be nice to small children and puppies, and we will see you on the next episode of digital marketing from the trenches. Was that a good outrage? Rate us five stars. All right, yeah. Rate us five stars or four stars or three stars, but not two. I don’t think we’ve been that bad, but I’ll never

Joseph DellaVecchia 40:44
know. And if it is four stars, you can leave comments now on podcast. So comment, yeah,

Dan Nedelko 40:48
we like that too. That’s what you like. All right, we’re gonna end this stream for now and see on the next pod. Everybody. Bye.

In this episode of “Digital Marketing from the Trenches,” Dan Nedelko and Joseph DellaVecchia discuss the differences between Account-Based Marketing (ABM) and B2B Marketing.

They emphasize that ABM is a subset of B2B, focusing on high-value accounts with personalized strategies, while B2B casts a wider net.

In this episode, we’re discussing the key differences between ABM and B2B Maketing, how to start with a B2B plan and move towards Account Based Marketing, importance of understanding ideal customer profiles and managing the longer more complex B2B sales process.

Key strategies include leveraging LinkedIn for thought leadership, using Sales Navigator for targeted engagement, and ensuring website content is tailored to specific roles.

The bottom line: ABM has a higher Return-On-Investment than Business-to-Business Marketing, with 76% of companies reporting better results compared to traditional B2B methods. However, ABM is challenging to implement company-wide, treating a B2B Marketing program as a way to lay the groundwork for Account-Based-Marketing is practical Go To Market (GTM) strategy.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

ABM vs B2B, sales alignment, target accounts, customer insights, cold outreach, LinkedIn strategy, Sales Navigator, ideal customer profile, long sales process, thought leadership, content diversification, Google Ads, personalized experiences, higher ROI, target account lists

SPEAKERS

Dan Nedelko, Joseph DellaVecchia

Dan Nedelko  00:00

Recording, and we are going live. And welcome everybody to another episode of live at the hive digital marketing from the trenches. I am your host, Dan nedelko, and I’m here with

Joseph DellaVecchia  00:24

Joe dellavecchio, one of your other hosts as well. And I feel like it was co host, but I feel like at this point I’ve been promoted. I’m promoting myself,

Dan Nedelko  00:31

okay, promoting yourself to host. I am now the co host with Joe. There we go. We are. We are co hosts. Truly co hosts. Welcome to another episode of digital marketing from the trenches. And in this episode, we are going to talk more about ABM. As we started out this process, we thought it would be an episode. We quickly realized it was going to be a whole bunch of episodes. There’s a lot to unpack. Today. We’re going to be talking about the distinct differences between Account Based Marketing and B to B marketing, which often get conflated. So we’re going to talk a little bit about the two differences between the two approaches, how B to B is actually kind of a subset of ABM, and you can actually prep your B to B or your ABM efforts, I should say, by creating a strong infrastructure on B to B marketing, which is really time well spent. There we go. Bit of a mouthful there, little bit, little bit. And I ad libbed that

Joseph DellaVecchia  01:36

it was very it was very smooth, very well done.

Dan Nedelko  01:38

Thank you. Reliving my high school drama days. So yeah, but

Joseph DellaVecchia  01:42

just to build on what you were saying there, Dan, one thing that we talk about all the time, we’re talking about as the inspiration for this episode is just how often so many people think they’re ready for ABM, but they’re not ready for ABM. And we touched on that a little bit in our last episode, but and we talked about also too, the how sales and marketing alignment needs to be strong, and in order to that, you have to have a fair understanding of what each thing is. So let’s just quickly go back and let’s recap what is ABM from what we talked about last time, ABM is Account Based Marketing, it’s a strategic approach that focuses on targeting and engaging specific, high value accounts, rather than casting a wide net. It’s a method that aligns marketing and sales efforts to create personalized buying experiences for key accounts. ABM treats individual accounts and markets as their own right. It involves tailoring marketing campaigns and content specific accounts, and it’s data driven and relies heavily on customer insights and also on teamwork as well, and being able to align your initiatives, objectives, and taking the data real time and reports and being able to adjust your strategies effectively.

Dan Nedelko  02:49

There you go. Actually, it’s funny because in one of our clips from the last episode that we put up on YouTube, someone said, like that looks Joe looks like he’s this guy looks like he’s reading from his script. And actually, it’s funny because you weren’t reading from a script. No,

Joseph DellaVecchia  03:01

I was not reading from us. I did see that too and that, yeah, they were like, reading from a script and not talking to anyone. And I’m like, I am very much just talking to someone about marketing right now,

Dan Nedelko  03:12

and I’m the person that doesn’t exist in that conversation, which I don’t know if that says something or what it might mean. But anyhow, getting back to the matter at hand, yeah, so ABM, and I’ll talk a little bit about B to B as well, but ABM really has a significant portion of it that is philosophical and and structural to your organization, about how you sell, about understanding the customers, about aligning sales and marketing at a fairly deep level, and where BDRs and SDRs can actually, in in certain functions, be part of the marketing team, and in other functions, they’re part of the sales team, but you have this kind of very strong alignment between the two groups and that and that goes deeper than a platform. It goes much deeper than how you target accounts, etc. So it really takes a lot of heavy lifting, especially when it’s new, for businesses, to really get their heads around how this can work collaboratively. So it’s definitely a heavy lift, right? I mean, it’s not something you’re just going to walk in one day and say, Okay, everybody we’re doing ABM, and it’s just going to start happening. So, yeah, yeah. So you know, it’s, it’s definitely non trivial, and then, you know, we’ll get into it. But on the B to B side, and we have this little visual that I drew in like two seconds. But if you were to imagine a circle of ABM, and encompassed inside that completely is a smaller circle of B to B. Like a lot of what you need to do in the ABM side, you need to do for effective B to B marketing, but just to kind of follow on exactly what you said. Then what is B to B, right? If that’s all. That stuff is ABM, then what is B to B? Well, there’s some real distinct properties of what B to B marketing is. And one it obviously does come down where target accounts are really much more granular at the B to B level. They’re a little bit more general, but you still do have to understand your ideal customer profiles. Who are you selling to? Right? And one of the things that I will often hear, and I know you do too, Joe, is you’ll hear, oftentimes people say, I’ll use an example, we sell to government. That’s our ideal customer. And then the reply would be, okay. Well, let’s look at government. It’s a huge topic. If you were looking at government, you’ve got everything from small townships to cities to municipalities to major centers like the GTA, for example, and then you have provincial, and then you have federal, and then you have provincial, and in the US, you’d have state level. And then inside of that, you’ve got various departments, from military to civic, civic works to, I mean, all sorts of stuff, right?

Joseph DellaVecchia  06:17

I think to just, sorry, just to build on that, though, like, I think that’s part of like, the battle too. I think that people don’t realize that knowing this part is half the battle. You say to someone, do you know who your target account is? Do you know who you’re going after, who you’re marketing to? And they say, just build on your example, yeah, government, so let’s go market to government. But they don’t realize that that’s knowing the industry, or possibly even the persona, but the specific contacts and who you need to talk to, the decision makers, the people who are going to champion you, who are going to be interested, who are going to sign on the dotted line you need to know, not in you don’t have to have met them in person, or them particularly, but you need to know those to effectively market to them with an ABM strategy,

Dan Nedelko  07:00

yeah, yeah. And you need to for a B to B strategy as well. Because, again, we’re going to go through some of these brush strokes as we go through this conversation. One of the things is, if you don’t really know who in the government and what department and who the buying group is, and where you’re trying to get to, and if you start advertising on a LinkedIn, for example, for for for brand awareness and government, 90% of your spend is going to be entirely wasted on the wrong people that have absolutely no connection to where it is your your what it is you’re selling and who you’re selling to. So step one in B to B is developing an ideal customer and an ideal account profile. Now that’s ahead of target accounts, right? Like you, you have to know what that is in fairly specific terms, right, to understand your sales to in order to be able to develop that target account list. So we’re not there yet. We’re but in B to B, the first step would be, who are you selling to and and be ruthless with yourself if you’re in B to B sales, to really dissect this and really understand it, because nine times out of 10 in a Conversation, the definition of that ideal customer profile is far too broad. It’s far too encompassing. It does not specify, you know, is it procurement? Is it a field operations person? So I’ll give you like another example. In government, at a certain level, various managers and directors within a government will have discretionary budgets throughout a year. They can purchase up to some level, right? If your product falls below that threshold, call it $100,000 a year. Maybe that’s your threshold for the service or product that you’re selling. Well, if that’s within a discretionary budget for those people, then you can market directly to them, right? And that sales process can begin within any allotted period of time, not fixed to budgetary restrictions, unless that becomes part of, you know, a lack of budget on that director’s position or that manager’s position. That’s like scenario one. In scenario two, you’re above this threshold, and so therefore you’re marketing into the next fiscal year and possibly going through a procurement process where you would use a platform, say, like go bonfire, to find procurements and RFPs and RFQs and begin submitting those now, so that you’re in time for the next budgetary cycle. Like, that’s a, that’s a, I mean, admittedly, I think you would agree whether you know you’ve been through that process or not. Those are two big differences, right? And traditionally,

Joseph DellaVecchia  09:56

too, regardless, if you look at like even just a step about. From ABM, but look at B to B as a whole. It’s usually a long sales process when you’re selling something B to B ABM, especially if you look at it from beginning to end. If you look at someone who starts up with ABM from a cold outrage, you’ve sourced that contact. You find out who you’re contacting, and you’re going out, and now you’re sending out cold outbound emails. You’re advertising to them. They’re in your audience. You’re trying to get their attention on social with that, and building that out from the point where you they will eventually get engaged, start to be warmed, take a call with you. Understand your product. Take that back. Then corporate boards have to make their decisions. It becomes a long, long process right there. And so ABM has its benefits of not just supporting that long process throughout but keeping people engaged throughout the entire time, and they’re not going to lose interest or suddenly just forget about you. It keeps you top of mind. So even if Dan, for example, I’m trying to sell to you and get you to buy my product, but you got to take it back to your board of directors. It’s going to take you guys three months, because currently you’re reviewing this other project, then you have to go through next year’s budget. Next year’s budgets. Does it fit into your fiscal year? Etc, etc. I’m still sending you emails every week, or every two weeks. You’re still seeing my content online on social media. We’ve connected on LinkedIn, maybe once a month. I’m just reaching out to send you our latest case study so you know what’s going on and how it can continue to benefit you. What you can bring up to your leaders. So there’s it supports that process the entire time. And so if you do end up one of those situations, you’re not just trying to do a cold outreach every three months, or just trying to as well, reach out, reach out and close the deal, close the deal, close the deal. Because traditionally, especially B to B doesn’t work like that, right?

Dan Nedelko  11:37

And I now I’m compelled to say something about cold email outreach that is also oftentimes misconstrued. Right the point of cold email outreaches to develop a relationship where you you that person knows who you are. It is not to sell immediately. That is the number one feedback that we get from from any sales team is, well, like my colts sales outreach, I want them to book a meeting, I want them to book a meeting, but booking a meeting is is very close to potentially closing a deal right, like it’s within that funnel, and so you’re going for it too quickly and misunderstanding what the idea of a cold outreach cadence is all about. Is about building that trust they know who you are. So many multiple opens on a cold outreach where someone is engaging with that and where you can just send a personalized email like that’s a B to B, function often done improperly, because it’s the first email you’ve seen them, right? I get, like, I get, like, three a day, same

Joseph DellaVecchia  12:47

I think we get them from the same people too, which is funny enough, but especially too and like, and let’s say you have a five step core, and I’ve talked to clients about this before. You’ve got a five step cold outreach sequence, and they’re like, oh, but you know, I want to have book. I don’t want to, like, knock without saying, book a meeting. Like, in like, the fifth step, you can put that out there. You can make the offer for the meeting and have it as a button, a link, however, you have it set up with your CRM, but you can have that option for book a meeting. But don’t just come out of the gates on the first one firing, hey, I’m Joe. You’re gonna love this. Let’s book a meeting and talk about it like, you know nothing about me. You know nothing about the product I’m selling. You know nothing about the benefits or what pain points I’m addressing. Like, it’s, it’s a it’s like, when someone comes to your door, door to door sales, someone knocks on your door and they’re like, you you need this like, no, no, I don’t What do you know? It’s building that relationship and having that understanding and showing them not only do you understand, you care and you’re going to help solve it Well,

Dan Nedelko  13:41

exactly, and I mean oftentimes that the misappropriation of this ideal customer profile is C suite executives and higher level directors are included in these lists. So the lists are not well thought out, because the I the ideal customer profile needs to be well thought out. It needs to be targeted. Because, again, to your point, if you are going after VPs and senior level directors or C suite folks, their calendars are jam packed, right? Booking a call is a privilege in that world, and that’s the first thing you’re asking for, it’s, it’s, it’s, there’s a certain level of entitlement that comes with that that could be misread by a very important person in your target what is your ideal customer profile, and potentially within one of your target accounts. So you could be hurting yourself by doing this too quickly. So when we when we just to roll back a little bit, because I think we’ve got a few items to get in here, like, what are the elements of B to B that can be implemented before Account Based Marketing? And just the cherry on top of that, I’ll throw that one over to you, because I know you’ve got a bit of a laundry list. On that. The second part of it is is, don’t feel bad about saying I’m not ready for ABM. We’re not organizationally ready. ABM is a buzzword that everybody wants to use, like a badge of honor that they’re doing, but a lot of people are not. Do they’re say they’re doing ABM, but they’re not doing it properly, which means you might as well not be doing ABM, right? Yeah,

Joseph DellaVecchia  15:23

it’s, it’s the next stepping stone. Gradually, you start with B to B, and then you can take that next step to ABM, and that’s why we say in how you said a little bit earlier. Dan, you know, if you’re doing ABM, you’re doing B to B, but if you’re doing B to B, that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re doing ABM, and that’s not a bad thing, especially if you’re just getting started, because if you’re starting off with B to B, you’re able to start your advertising, and you’re able to start building those target account lists and understanding your target account, your target customer, and being able to get to that end point of having that list built and start targeting them individually. And at that time, too, you’ve probably done some cold email outreach, you’ve done some cold calling, you’ve built some relationships which are going to help you along the way. Now, how do ABM and traditional B to B marketing though, defer, which was, I know, the original question you asked me. ABM inverts the traditional sales funnel. It starts with identifying specific accounts, like we’ve went over, while traditional B to B casts that wider net. Now, your traditional B to B advertising could be, you know, your target audience, for example, like, you know, it’s in government, so you’re going to start advertising out with government, with that vertical, and building an audience from there, maybe building a look like audience, building some remarketing to then start to strengthen that audience as well too. ABM is going to focus on quality of leads, though, instead of the quantity of leads, where you might get a lot of people doing B to B with ABM, you’re able to focus on those high quality leads, the ones that matter and that are engaged, and that are those decision makers. Yes, there’s going to be less of them, but they’re the people that you’re going after, the people that are more likely to be engaged, and the people that will actually matter, because they’ll sign on the dotted line, you’ll get their business, versus if you’re going after someone who is maybe just a manager at a company when you need a senior VP ABM, results are really, really great from recent studies, they typically show results of a higher ROI. 76% of companies actually reported higher ROI with ABM compared to other marketing initiatives last year.

Dan Nedelko  17:16

Yeah, and I think one of the important things to highlight on that is one of the reasons you do report higher ROI is fundamentally because you understand your customer, you understand their needs, and you’ve created these target account lists that are fairly specific, so you’re doing a better job of fundamental sales, which is understanding my customer, right? And that turns into but like to start with where B to B is different, where we will cast a wider net is you could start by casting a wider net by saying we’re in government, and then doing a workshop and working through, okay, what areas of government? Well, you should know that. And then who’s a typical buyer, you probably know some of that, and you can get the starting points of casting a slightly wider net, watching what’s happening with both the advertising, and we’ll go over some of the channels for B to B that can be used to be to start this effective program, and watching this work, and seeing who’s Engaging and where you close the deal in that process is understanding and mapping it. That’s like, the first step to getting over into Account Based Marketing.

Joseph DellaVecchia  18:29

Yeah, it’s like, I said it’s a stepping stone. I think we’ve highlighted that it really is important, though, to just understand that it’s not something you can just dive into. So many people want to just dive in, and they’re like, I’m a thought leader. I can get in there. I know who I’m selling to. And we talked about it in our last episode, too. Sales people always like, Oh, if you can just get me in front of the person I can sell. I can close the deal. Just get me talking, like, right in front of the person. You need to build to that point, though, I can’t just pick you up and plop you right down and then you’re able to just have that conversation you need. You get to the point where, because that conversation is a two way street, they need to be engaged. They need to be interested. Sure, you can maybe get them at a show and just walk up and talk to them, but everyone’s doing that. And not to say shows aren’t a valid way of doing business and building relationships. You can’t just go in and close. You can’t just get that coffee that’s for the closer right away.

Dan Nedelko  19:15

Yeah, for sure. And and no, like, live events conferences are key. Like they’re critical, it’s how you kind of manage that and deal with it. And I think another element of this is understanding it all comes down to understanding your customer, and who are you targeting? Because so much comes from that into there was a threat I was involved in on LinkedIn earlier this week, which was which type of a presentation should you send? Do you send a PowerPoint? Do you send a Word doc with this was the context of that with a bunch of bullet points? Do you send a very brief summary in an email? My response was, Well, it really depends, like it depends on if you’re talking to the CEO that typically you know the profile of the CEO that. Writes the entire email in the subject line. You might want to be very brief. If you’re talking to the CMO, you may want to go with the PowerPoint. If you’re talking to the COO, you may want to use the word doc that has a bit more detail, because they’re in operations like it depends. And what you’re

Joseph DellaVecchia  20:17

saying Dan is you need to understand who you’re speaking to and you need to target your approach that way. That’s similar to what you would do in ABM, exactly,

Dan Nedelko  20:25

well. And these are the fundamental pillars that cross over like you need to do it in B to B, and you need to do it more and in a more refined way for ABM, yeah, of course. Yeah. So totally okay. So moving on. So let’s talk about, you know, this B to B approach is casting a bit of a wider net, not completely randomly wide, but let’s say you’re ahead of the curve. You’re a bit ahead, you know, maybe you, and this is a good kumbaya moment, is admitting we don’t have a perfect handle on our ideal customers, because it’s like knowing is half the battle, right? Like GI Joe and saying, Okay, this is going to be a focus for three months, six months, whatever it might be, and an ongoing focus, ideally, right? To say that’s going to evolve. And so we want to keep a finger on the pulse of how that works. So we cast a slightly wider net. We’re doing B to B. We’re getting into market. We’re keeping an eye on who we’re connecting with, what their role is, and looking at the sales process, because oftentimes this is not documented. But then what we want to do is look at, you know, what are the channels? Okay? So we’re going to start doing this, right? So we have several channels that we can use in B to B and in ABM, but starting with the B to B side, right? We’ve obviously got cold email and lists, so you can start from wider lists and start to pull those down as you start to see engagement on it. That’s kind of thing number one, the second one is your website, right? What does your website say? Is it full of billboard or poster style? Like it’s pretty, but there isn’t a whole ton of information, because people didn’t want to use words on the website, you know. So you have to look at that as well.

Joseph DellaVecchia  22:23

I find the biggest issue with website, just in what we see all the time is that your eye people are either doing too much content, because they’re like, oh, there’s so much you have to tell them about their brand, and they have to understand this, and they have to know that. And that’s just classic overthinking, over complication, which, you know it makes sense. You’re so close to it, you know it so well, and that’s why it helps to have a third party, or just someone come in, take a step back and say, this is the basic information. But then where people fall a little short is they make it a little too small, and then there isn’t enough information, or it’s not providing context, or it’s just not providing value, it’s not engaging, it’s not interesting, versus the competition, or a computer product? Yeah,

Dan Nedelko  23:02

absolutely. And I think part of it is also looking at the content on your website and saying, strategically, there’s lots of paths like so, yes, there’s a product page that’s kind of front and center, but we have Cornerstone pages that I can use in my cold outreach. If I see somebody is looking at a certain type of content, that we can prepare this content, so I can easily send it to somebody and they can find it, right? So, yeah, it’s it’s all about understanding how to chapterize your content and tell a story, right, depending on which way you go. Because if you’re talking to someone in finance, it’s a different story than if you’re talking to someone in product or in marketing, right? Would typically be very different. They have very different concerns. So that’s kind of the first place you want to look at your website. Second one, and I know you’ve got some firm thoughts on this, Joe, is that LinkedIn, and what companies are doing with LinkedIn? So I was

Joseph DellaVecchia  24:01

gonna say, speaking of providing value LinkedIn, and they their tagline, it’s where B to B happens. And the important thing about B to B, whether it’s sales, you know, your cold outreaches, whatever you’re doing, when it comes to B to B, you have to have value in what you’re saying. We’ve already established CEOs, these decision makers. They’re busy. They’re hectic. The corporate life is always running. It’s a machine that never stops turning. And if you don’t have something of value to say, nobody cares. You know, at the end of the day, Let’s call a spade a spade. If you don’t have something of value, this thing to offer, nobody cares. And that’s why it seems to be important that you’re not repeating yourself so taking your company’s content and just reposting it without adding anything additional on that. If they’re already following their company and they’re following you, they don’t care that you’ve reposted, you’re not adding anything extra there and value to help elevate this and bring it more forward. You are showing it to more of your audience and your network. But that’s also not only you building on that. You want to build on the actual content. To itself. If you’re a thought leader, write something that relates to it. Have actual thought leadership, and have something to say. And also, then don’t just say the same things over and over and over again. You know, this is your one core message, repeat, repeat, repeat. At that point, I’ve seen it once this week. I’ve seen it three times this week. I’ve seen it 10 times this month. I’ve seen it enough times where I get it? You know, it’s like, it’s a bad soap opera. I get it. Tell me something new. Tell me something interesting. Tell me something that is going to appeal to me. Address a pain point in or engage me. And that’s the great thing about the world. Things are always changing. Things are always becoming new. Focuses right now, a really big focus is inflation, is the economy. So how are you helping solve that pain point? Possibly, maybe in a year. Now, it’s, Hey, there’s a lot of excess spending. You know, you have to finish using your budget by the end of the year. Here’s what you can invest that money in to actually help further your company, further the technology that you’re using. So there’s always a different angle that is timely and relevant and that will get people’s attention and say something new and interesting and keep people engaged, which goes back to what you’re talking about before keeping people engaged through that long sales process. Yeah, if you don’t have something valuable or new to say, you’re not going to get your point across, sorry, Dan, go ahead.

Dan Nedelko  26:11

Yeah, no, I was going to say, I think, I think one of the things is, is don’t be afraid. And I think a lot of people that are not native to social have real hesitancy to do this, but as a professional in your field, you will have a take on almost everything that happens, and don’t be afraid to convey that. I mean, the point about LinkedIn is it’s like the business cocktail party, where you’ve got a chance to open a conversation, but also participate in conversations. What I personally see a lot of is a lot of thankfulness posts like, we’re grateful for our partners doing this. We’re grateful for this show. Thank you so much for this. Thank you so much for that. That’s great, but not 100% of the time, because it does become fairly repetitive, and what you want to also do is look at industry, industry highlights, industry changes. What’s happening. What is your specific take? Because if you’re in sales in 2024, I’m of the firm belief that you are selling a solution. So you are a domain expert that can help a client solve a problem. And when you could do that, your sales will magnify incredibly, right? So what’s the editorial take that you’ve got on either your company, right? So if you’re, if, if, if your company has just been handed a major award, great. What is the implication of that on your target client? Right? If we won great place to work, and we have the badge and we’ve gone through that process, it means that our team is highly engaged because we’ve gone through this process. I’m using a very poor example there, but how does what your company has done as an organization, impacting you and your potential customers in a more specific way? So expanding upon something that’s happening, there’s industry moves and industry happenings that you can comment on, as if you know, it’s an op ed, right? This is going to be a net benefit for our industry for these three reasons, right? That could be new legislation. It could be anything that’s happening there, but this provides a depth of content on LinkedIn that people will see and people do react to. So please stop trying to gloss over social content and overproduce it because it shows and when you look at it contextually, it doesn’t look great. It looks very forced, right on the social selling and LinkedIn side. The second part of it is participate in conversations. And oftentimes I’ll go look at people’s LinkedIn profiles, and you see a lot of like, great, great stuff. Great job. Congratulations, congratulations, congratulations. It’s like, very good. It’s nice to do those things, but how about engaging in a thread of conversation where you’re able to give your professional opinion and participate in the conversation more substantially, it takes a little bit of effort, not a ton, but it can also make a huge amount of difference. So with LinkedIn, there’s a ton of work both to do organizationally, to provide that value of thought leadership at a micro level, at the individual level, it is actually a lot easier. What’s your take on XYZ that’s happening? Right? Because that stuff, that stuff really does exist,

Joseph DellaVecchia  29:52

I think too, just to kind of tie it all together, is that there’s just such a hesitancy on LinkedIn to diversify your content. It, and it gets to the point where everything kind of starts to see the same, like we were saying, but it also it reads and feels like everything’s an ad, even when it’s not trying to be, because there’s always that very obvious call to action or that obvious book that then gets you reading about the product and what it does, even if you don’t directly mention the product, but you’re mentioning the pain point that you’re solving, you suddenly have that call to action or that book of collar. Let’s talk more. Right at the bottom, it’s an ad. And the one thing that you have in common between B to B and your B to C is that people are still we’re all still humans. And the last thing we want to see is every single post be an ad. Whether I’m looking at what my friends are doing on Instagram or I’m looking at what things are happening professionally in the world of LinkedIn, I want to see what’s happening in life. I want to see those updates, and I want to see those things that are interesting to me. And brands can be interesting still on LinkedIn, while still keeping their brand voice. Whether you’re a little bit more professional or you are a little bit more loose, or you’re just completely unhinged, like Wendy’s Twitter was back in 28 wherever you are on the sector, you can have but there’s still that way to have fun and diversify your content a little bit while still keeping it relevant and important. And there’s just such that resistance to do that. And I understand people are like, well, what if the target sees it, and suddenly they’re not seeing the most important thing there is that fear. But if they see and they engage with your content, I can guarantee you the algorithm is going to show it again. Yep,

Dan Nedelko  31:18

absolutely. And there’s a lot to unpack. We could do, obviously, a whole series on just LinkedIn, but I think you know, some of the key takeaways are, try to be authentic. Try to provide your own unique angle to it. Don’t repeat over and over. Come up with a few different themes for both your organization and for you yourself. Don’t be afraid to get in and engage in content and content threads, that’s where a lot of the magic actually happens. It’s the first, most natural starting point. If you’re afraid or hesitant to actually post content, participate in other threads where that content is relevant. That’s like a great first starting point. In fact, it’s going to grow your network almost more than anything you do post, right is by participating in those other conversations, exactly which segues in a beautiful way. Because again, we’re over time, but we’re going to we’re getting close here. So we were right about turning this into a huge series about B to B and ABM sales was

Joseph DellaVecchia  32:22

still the first episode. Yeah,

Dan Nedelko  32:25

this is one like, if you did one episode, it’d be 12 hours long, to be honest, at least. So naturally, segwaying from LinkedIn into Sales Navigator, which is becoming a very popular tool, one because of the quality of the B to B information, and people are using it as if it’s kind of a zoom info or Apollo to find contact information in your network and to identify people that would be key drivers, champions and decision makers in key accounts. Now the important thing here is that sales navigators a lot more than that in the context of what LinkedIn is, and this is the really important thing, is it’s a great opportunity for you to go through that target account process. So starting with ideal customer profile, ideal company profile, casting a little bit of a wider net, creating larger lists in sales nav. What sales nav does really well is it reveals to you these threads from those people, whether they’re commenting elsewhere or whether they’re they’ve got posts available. It does both for you to go and engage with those people in a natural way, right? If they’re in a thread of conversation, potentially, then you can participate in that thread, and they’ll start to see your name. It’s fairly subtle, but it happens there’s, I guess the point of this point here is with Sales Navigator, it’s a lot more than a B to B database, which is oftentimes how Sales Navigator is treated. It is that, but it’s a lot more, and Sales Navigator can give you lots of good connection opportunities, including second and third degree connections, where your target is commenting and posting, so you can participate in similar conversations and again, kind of like cold calling and cold emailing. It allows you to develop that relationship that can then turn into a commercial relationship later on, at least that person knows who you are.

Joseph DellaVecchia  34:30

Sales navigators, it’s a useful tool overall, and there are others like it too, which we’ll talk about at a later date and time. But there’s also the ability to that, as you’re saying, it helps you build your network and your audience as well too. And there are other tools as well that can help you do that. It doesn’t all just have to live on LinkedIn. A really great one that a lot of people use and to build audiences is Google as well. And you’ve got your responsive display where you can also build and build your sponsor display. To your targets and your target audiences. Well, you can do the same thing on LinkedIn. Sales Navigator is a great tool. And like we’ve said before, everything here kind of works in tandem. It’s a stepping stone where you go logically from the next to the next to the next, and as you build that out, you work your way towards ABM.

Dan Nedelko  35:16

That’s right, that’s right. And there’s a few others now, like when you get the Sales Navigator. You can build account lists. You can build your lead list a lot like you were saying there, Joe. You can actually get those out. And you can put them into Google. You can put them into platforms like stack adapt as you build out these lists. And starting in a broad way, which is B to B, right, you can, we can load those into advertising platforms, LinkedIn, Microsoft, Google and Google responsive display example that will get you, like a run of the network across as many different touch points as possible. It’s a starting point, right? And then you can work on that ideal customer profile, the ideal company profile, and start to develop those target accounts and the one to one accounts that are important to you. But again, on this kind of spectrum of business to business, you got to do the fundamentals before you can get to the ABM, which is a little bit more advanced. Once you get to that more advanced level, you can use platforms like we prefer. One of them is called influ two, which is a pretty amazing platform, which allows you to target across multiple different touch points, mobile, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, websites, Google networks, everywhere, to specific, high value clients or target accounts and target contacts, right with highly, highly personalized experiences. But again, that’s kind of like the other end of that spectrum. When you’re in ABM, you’re going to be able to make that investment, because you’ll see it’s real. So I guess, to wrap this episode up, we’re still, we’re not perfect, but we’re, we’re better than we were our time. In terms of our time, we’re at 37 minutes right now. So for us, that’s not bad, not bad. I think just to, just to wrap up and summarize for our audience is B to B is really a subset of ABM. You have fundamental core pillars, just like if you’re playing baseball, you know, you got to know how to throw a ball, regardless of what position you play, right? You got to know how to swing a bat. And that’s what a big part of B to B getting started in is, is, is doing the fundamentals. And don’t be afraid to start by saying, I don’t have 100% clarity on my ideal customer profile, so I can’t build my target accounts yet. So you can start wider and you can pull in, and then you can look at your website content, your LinkedIn strategy, your sales nav strategy, your LinkedIn advertising strategy, how you advertise in general, and where that can lead you once you have the definition into an Account Based Marketing approach. So that’s a bit of the summary. Joe, I don’t know if you have anything else to add. I hope they didn’t steal any of your thunder in that.

Joseph DellaVecchia  38:20

No, no, no. I think just to build on that, yeah, like you said, it’s the first step. It’s the stepping stone. Like we said, with B to B, you’re gonna learn, understand and develop your ICPs, and once you have those ideal customer profiles, you’re then gonna be able to start moving towards building your target account list and start getting into B to B, which I think Dan is a great place to pick up our next episode,

Dan Nedelko  38:44

perfect. And what’s coming up next Joe,

Joseph DellaVecchia  38:46

next Dan, we’re going to talk about target accountants. We’re going to review what they are, how you build one, how long they should be, and how do you integrate them into your strategy. And then how does that relate to enriching data, which could be another future episode.

Dan Nedelko  39:00

I mean, I think you’re giving away the content schedule here, which is fine. Actually, I’m teasing. I know you are. I know you are. I think one of the things that we should point out too, is when we do these, I just had this great idea, is we will pair these with workshop, walkthrough tutorials, if you’re in the nitty gritty of apollo.io, and LinkedIn Sales Navigator, where I’ll be walking through using these platforms in the screen share style. So we’ll kind of do both. We’ll have the episode, and we’re going to pair that with the YouTube video where we’re going to show you how to use the platform, how to add the filters, how to actually make those things happen and what that looks like as well. So good times, exciting times for the B to B and ABM world. All right, friends. Well, thanks so much for joining us on another episode of live at the hive, digital marketing from that trenches. I mean digital marketing from the trenches live at the hive, I don’t know. It doesn’t really matter, as long as you’re here. Listening, then we’re happy with that. So thanks.

Joseph DellaVecchia  40:04

This is your first time. Check out, like a previous episode. We’ve got so much more on ABM. We’ve got stuff on Google business profile. We read Reddit stories together about marketing and sales the other week, and that was a blast.

Dan Nedelko  40:14

And we will be doing that again, because that is a ton of fun. We’ll find more craziness from the Reddit world. Yes, we have over 250 episodes of digital marketing from the trenches and tons and tons of videos. So please subscribe, like follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Donate to your favorite charity. Hug your wife and kids your partner, be nice to small children and puppies, and we will see you on the next episode of digital marketing from the trenches.

Joseph DellaVecchia  40:42

Is that a good, outrageous five stars?

Dan Nedelko  40:44

All right, yeah, rate us five stars or four stars or three stars, but not two. I don’t think we’ve been that bad, but I’ll never

Joseph DellaVecchia  40:50

know. And if it is four stars, you can leave comments now on podcast. So comment, yeah,

Dan Nedelko  40:54

we like that too. Tell

Joseph DellaVecchia  40:55

us what you like.

Dan Nedelko  40:56

All right, we’re gonna end this stream for now and see on the next pod. Everybody. Bye.

Do you find that daily life in a remote setting lacks the necessary communication to function effectively as a team?

Having a positive corporate culture is key to any company’s success.

When everyone works together to create a better experience in the workplace, it brings better results for the business and the team.

Joining us on this week’s Live is our special guest, Kate Went.

Kate is the Marketing Manager at ScarlettAbbott. working alongside the business development team, helping to share the projects and results her team deliver for organizations around the world.

With a decade spent working in marketing and communications for the healthcare, construction, and legal sectors, Kate has honed her experience across the full marketing mix, on and offline.

Try to ask your employees what they want – in which environment they are comfortable?

There are many ways to create online communication such as Linkedin and online forums.

Create a lot of security to ensure all your data is protected online.

A way to make your team comfortable is to ensure that they are connected even if they are working remotely.

Ensure that you are able to notice signs of distress.

Try to focus on outputs, not processes.

As a business, ensure you have authentic leadership visibility.

Successful remote leaders understand they need to take a different approach to make things happen.

Ensure you use collaborative, communicative approaches to improve accountability and transparency.

Try to delegate proper responsibilities to the team according to their skills and knowledge.

Ensure you have a collaborative approach to work.

It is important to have a rough framework for the year and then try to work around it by understanding the problems of the clients.

Try to simplify that down into the content showcase really easily and quickly what problems we can solve.

Perhaps the most critical aspect of hybrid work is creating a digital workspace that enables all employees to work together from anywhere.

Collaboration is a key cornerstone of hybrid work culture, and it’s a great place to start.

Your digital workspace is essential to making sure remote workers don’t feel isolated from their team or that office workers aren’t getting more opportunities.

All of this equates to happier employees, less turnover, and more productivity — critical foundations for a solid workplace culture.

We’d like to thank Kate Went for ScarlettAbbott for joining us on this episode of Live at the Hive.

We hope you enjoyed reading the blog. If you’re looking for more great content, check out some of our other reads below:

How to Sell Complex B2B Solutions and Foster Relationships

Unlocking the Power of Automation to Scale Content Creation

Email Isn’t Dead, The Way We Think About It Is

We’re back with a new episode of Digital Marketing from the Trenches – Live at the Hive and this week, we’re reading Reddit Sales and Marketing Stories. For those of you not in the know, Reddit is one of the most magical places on the internet, where regular folks like you and I can ask the Reddit community anything we may have on our minds.

Reddit is a gold-mine of “subreddits” or communities created around any topic imaginable. Members ask some of the best and worst questions from very active communities. In today’s episode of Digital Marketing from the Trenches, we’re featuring some of the best Reddit Sales and Marketing Stories from the following subreddits:

/r/sales/ (354K Members)
/r/advertising (190K Members)
/r/LinkedInLunatics/ (665K Members)
/r/B2B_sales/ (7.2K Members)
/r/marketing/ (1.4M Members)
/r/AskMarketing/ (66K Members)

Joe and Dan delve into some of their favourite Reddit Stories, bringing things full circle and giving their opinions and experience in response to some of the best sales and marketing stories including:

We’re an Account Based Marketing Agency specializing in Sales and Marketing Alignment for Mid-Market businesses. Our Grow Programs are the perfect fit for business of any size looking to grow their B2B sales effectiveness with Lean ABM strategies and tactics. We’re also Hubspot certified and have a team of expert marketers ready to launch you into the world of modern sales and marketing.

If you enjoyed this, don’t forget to subscribe to Digital Marketing from the Trenches using the handy links below, wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Dan Nedelko 0:00
And in 321,

Hi

Joseph DellaVecchia 0:05
everyone. Welcome to sales Reddit stories. I’m Joe, he’s Dan, and today we’re going to be reading some of the most relatable sales and marketing stories from Reddit. This is a new segment, a part of live at the hive digital marketing from the trenches here at honeypot marketing. Dan, how are you today? I’m good. Joe, I’m good. I’ve been very excited for this episode ever since we talked about setting this up. Since Reddit is probably one of my favorite websites in the world to go visit on a regular basis. It’s a true treasure trove. Anything you want to find on the internet, you’ll find on Reddit, any interest, any genre it exists,

Dan Nedelko 0:43
it’s true. It’s true. And let’s be honest, this is inspired by Smosh’s Reading Reddit stories show with Shane top and that crew over there, which is a little bit of a guilty pleasure of mine, and I know your partners as well. But in all seriousness, uh, there’s a lot of really good sales and marketing conversation that does happen on Reddit. It’s a great place to to kind of find stuff, and then, and then, obviously, you get down into LinkedIn lunatics, which we’ll talk a little bit about. But in terms of, you know, the way that everything washes out for B to B, sales, techniques, marketing stories. It’s a it’s a treasure trove of information. For sure,

Joseph DellaVecchia 1:27
you can, you can always find something that’ll make you laugh, even make you cry,

Dan Nedelko 1:31
make you cry

Joseph DellaVecchia 1:32
today. Dan, I think we’re gonna be doing a lot of face palming, a lot of relating, and I think at the very end, we’ve got a special treat that’ll get us all laughing, yeah.

Dan Nedelko 1:41
And I think we have, we we’ve also got some good stories for salespeople and for marketers, about ABM, general sales, all sorts of stuff and and also, I think, yeah, on that outro, what not to do on LinkedIn? Because oftentimes we’ll hear, what should I do on LinkedIn? How should I post, whether it’s for their company, or whether it’s for you personally, but these are definitely what not to do. So with that, let’s dive right in. I know you got your first pick of the day.

Joseph DellaVecchia 2:11
All right, awesome. Our first story, Dan is coming to us from our slash advertising. Okay,

Dan Nedelko 2:19
let’s go. The

Joseph DellaVecchia 2:20
client requested a business plan and roadmap for a homegrown end to end ecommerce solution, everything from a website with a secure shipping cart and checkout process to source pick and pack and fulfillment capabilities from multiple warehouses across the country that complemented their existing fulfillment capabilities. No, this is around 2008 so this is no small feat. At the time, multiple millions of dollars would have changed completely the complexion of our agency with this one project spent months prepping, had an airtight solution that was a reasonable budget wise my boss, who was brilliant, put the entire proposal together using the legwork I’d done, designed to be about a two hour conversation, ticked every box and then some. We were pumped. Day of the presentation comes four of us and eight clients, including VPs and the CMO and the CTO of this fortune 500 company. We get two pages into the discussion, maybe three minutes tops, and the CMO takes his hefty spiral bound, leave behind, throws it down onto the table, and our team stands up. Well, you really missed the mark here. Then he walked out of the room, leaving us all to stare at each other. Later that day, he made a call to our president requesting that my boss, who I will repeat to this day, one of the most brilliant minds I’ve ever worked with, never be allowed to work on his account again. We found out after the fact that somewhere between the original ask and the meeting, he decided, and told nobody else that he really wanted was a turnkey storm storefront where they just sell the product at wholesale, and the vendor takes everything from there, worst meeting ever.

Dan Nedelko 4:07
So much to unpack in that so much to unpack so much.

Joseph DellaVecchia 4:10
Well, first things first, and in 2008 I was barely 10, so Dan, you are in the marketing world at 2008 so you can speak a bit more to the the landscape and E commerce at this time.

Dan Nedelko 4:21
What are you trying to say? I’m

Joseph DellaVecchia 4:22
saying that you have more experience, and you were doing this in 2008 that’s

Dan Nedelko 4:26
nice, in a roundabout way. You’re saying I’m old, which is totally fair, and that’s okay, yeah, in 2008 this was no laughing matter, right? Shopify didn’t exist. None of these easy SaaS platforms. In fact, the cloud didn’t even really exist at that time, either. So, you know, you’re looking at a huge tech lift. Really is what it comes down to. So, yeah, it’s not, it’s definitely not what it is today, 100% but I think there’s, there’s quite. A few stories. I mean, what are you getting out of this one? What are your thoughts on it for first and foremost,

Joseph DellaVecchia 5:04
my first thought is that, like, well, never to this caliber. I understand this situation where the client makes an ask. You prepare for that? Ask you go in and the client’s like, this is not at all what I was asking. And so I just think, from from an account management standpoint, first is just, it’s so important to get aligned and ask the questions. Even if I see this probably the most common example, a client will come and say, I need SEO. I want SEO. Ask about their goals, ask about what they’re looking for, and ask what their current understanding is. Because a lot of people in small businesses, you know, SEO has been thrown around a lot, and it’s something that they’re told that they need, or they think they fully understand, and it’s okay if they don’t fully understand, or even if they have the understanding wrong, that’s what the marketing team is there for. But a lot of the times, in my experience, I’ve had a lot of people come to me saying, I need SEO, and what they’re really looking for is silver bullet, inbound leads, which is a whole other conversation, but it’s they’re not looking for the same thing that they’re telling

Dan Nedelko 5:59
you, yeah, 100% I mean, the takeaway that I get from this story is number one, if you’re dealing with a fortune 500 expect that the people that you’re dealing with are corporate people. Like that is what they are. Their job is to work within a large organization. So it has a completely different dynamic than mid market and small business. That’s kind of thing number one, then thing number two, I’m getting out of this is, and, you know, the mistake on jump driver, who’s the OP, or the original poster of this, whoever was where they dropped the ball on this was going two months or several months, prepping without actually circling back and making sure that you’re keeping in touch with that person, you know, they change their mind. From a I can take it from the client standpoint, right, to say it’s not my job to update all of the vendors. In a sense, it kind of is, if you’re doing procurement like that, right? If you got a whole bunch of vendors bidding on a project, well, you can’t just change the bounds of the project. That’s what RFPs and RFQs are for, right? But if I were to take it from the perspective of that agency or jump driver the original poster, I think one thing that you could have done in this scenario is not wait a couple of months, right? That’s a very waterfall method. It’s like, well, I talked to you in April, and now we’re in July. You know, the entire world could change. Since then, it doesn’t sound like a whole lot of fun to be in a meeting like that. It’s going to be embarrassing, stressful. And the guy that was his boss, you know, he’s claiming up and down, that this guy was brilliant, which is, you know, 100% could well be the case. I think what this comes down to, from a sales side, is keep in touch with your prospects before you’re closing a deal on a regular basis. To see that, like, to your point, Joe, like, do they understand what SEO is, you know? And oftentimes it’s true, you know, that’s like saying I need a carburetor for my car. When you go to a mechanic, I don’t know what I need. You know, I need the outcome. I need my car to run really well and not break down on me. Can you tell me how to do that? And that’s typically what agencies should be asking their clients, is like, what do you want as the outcome? And in this case, obviously that changed, not a pretty situation, but yeah, in in terms of that, from a sales perspective, one thing I like to do is to keep in kind of an iterative approach, to say, hey, here’s where we’re thinking of going with this, and maybe just shooting like an outline, not sending, you know, the the end clients, not preparing the budget, but getting a pulse check on that on a regular basis is is a really good idea to avoid that. I love

Joseph DellaVecchia 8:56
the analogy that you used with the car in the carburetor. That’s just that that’s in perfect way to explain it,

Dan Nedelko 9:00
it Yeah, and you know what? It’s pretty funny. I think a lot of times, you know, we’ll get people coming over to us on on the marketing side and in the sales side and telling us what they think they want. You know, from a salesperson’s perspective, is, don’t ask your clients, like, do you want SEO? Do you want Google ads? Do you want a brand repositioning? Do you want a content strategy? Because, like, all of that stuff may work together in concert, depending on what the outcome is, right? Yeah. So you should be asking your clients and your prospects, like, what are you looking to achieve from this? You know, you can sell on pain points and and and on solutions, but don’t sell on the tactic for sure. All right. And you got a story for us? I got one that pretty much everybody in sales and or marketing ever have probably run into, and it’s never a good feeling. So I’ve been an AE at a digital. Marketing agency for the past two and a half years. In my first six months, I signed a franchise of med spas to handle their organic SEO for their website, local SEO for their 16 locations and paid Google paid social media ads. This contract resulted in them spending around 20k per month with us, which in turn grew to my biweekly paychecks. Grew my bi weekly paychecks by more than 100% on Friday, they emailed my team saying they’re terminating all contracts, pulling our access to their accounts, and they’re pursuing a contract with another agency, sad music tier, running down face. This was out of the blue with no explanation. They fired their marketing manager who hired us, and said they are terminating all business with us by November, feel like my sales spirit has been completely broken. The account was nearly half of my monthly revenue. It took us months to sign them with us, and it was out of pure luck that they were transferring agencies at the time, I had the biggest account by far in my market, and now it’s gone. My goals are going to be unattainable. Now. My paychecks are going to be a fraction of what they used to be. Feel like I’m gonna wash the F out, and eventually my manager will see I’m useless and fire me like they probably should have, since I’m going to be costing the company money. Now, I’m still shell shocked from the news yesterday. I can’t see any positive outcome from this, and I feel like I should just quit and find something else to waste my time on. That’s all I have. That’s pretty that’s pretty dark, that’s bleak, that is bleak. It’s extremely bleak, bleak. And I think it’s a story, plus it’s a psychological profile. But what are your thoughts on this one? Joe,

Joseph DellaVecchia 11:33
my thoughts are is that it’s something that you see all the time. You know clients are going to churn. It’s going to happen. There are clients that you will form long term relationships with that you know may never leave you. There are clients where you know they’re going to churn and you know we’ve seen it before. I think anyone who has worked in marketing agency life has seen it before. Losing a champion can be detrimental. You have that person who you’ve worked with closely understands what you’ve done, knows what you’re doing, and is there to back you up and back up the work that you’re doing to the higher ups, and especially in a corporate chain, that can be very, very beneficial, because then someone else comes in, and I put it as as a comic book reader, I put it as it’s when somebody new is going to write Batman. You know your Batman is Bruce Wayne. His parents died in Crime Alley. He’s Batman now, but then you’re going to put your own spin on the mythos. Someone new is going to come in and want to put their own spin on the company and leave their footprint right there to make a name for themselves, to show that they’ve been made. It’s the right decision to put them in this higher position, or for them to take over this project. Yeah. And so most of the time with marketing, it’s we’re gonna get a different team that can do more and better and aligns with my

Dan Nedelko 12:45
vision, honestly. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. I was gonna say, one of the

Joseph DellaVecchia 12:49
things I can say right there in that situation is get in front of that and align with that new person. If your champion is gone, yes, it sucks, but now you have a new person to make.

Dan Nedelko 12:59
Yeah. Well look, this is my biggest pet peeve with marketing managers and in the marketing industry in general, when you start a new position, regardless of what level you’re at, CMO, VP, marketing manager, whatever, stop firing all of your vendors and getting brand new vendors. It really is a short sighted thing. And there’s a couple of comments in that Reddit thread that speak to the same thing. It’s like, every time someone new comes in, they’re firing all their vendors and they’re getting in so they can, you know, plant their flag, show leadership, they’re doing something new. It’s a really short sighted thing for those people to do, but it happens all the time. It is probably the most common thing that I see. So if you’re on that side of it, don’t like, look at the ones that are showing value, keep your good vendors and make the changes where you need to. I mean, don’t you don’t need a carpet bomb when you can snipe right, and it doesn’t prevent you from doing that. I think that’s like, my first thing. Second thing is, well, there’s a, there’s so many things. I’ll be honest, this poor guy or gal, whoever it is, this poor person, understood your sales spirit is completely broken. It happens in every agency. In every sales role, you’re going to lose a client, or they’re going to lose the bidding process and never get the client, or you’re going to have a great client and you’re going to lose that client. It does. Client. It does happen all the time, and I think the first thing, and I try to say this to my kids with things like sports, something I used to do back in my sporting days, is you get 15 minutes to cry about it, right? Give yourself 15 minutes, and then you just kind of move forward, because you’re not going to change it, right? It’s already happening, but you can’t wallow in this, like this person’s going down. I’m completely broken. I’m useless. They’re going to fire me. I’m still shell shocked. I mean, if you had a, if we had a psychologist on here, taking this apart, I think there’s, there’s probably some other like confidence issues going. And on with this person.

Joseph DellaVecchia 15:03
I don’t disagree with that, but, yeah, no, I think you’re 100% right. Like, especially in sales, you’ve got to be you got to be hungry, and you got to be ready to jump back on it and go. And just because you know you’ve lost this big client, let’s say they said 20,000 let’s say you lose this one client of 20,000 Yep, does. That doesn’t mean you can’t get into the $20,000 client. But if your issue is, you know, that’s a big client, it takes so long to close and focus on 10, $2,000 or five, $4,000

Dan Nedelko 15:30
yeah, that’s, that’s good advice. That’s something I always kind of run through in my brain, is, is the kind of, if this, then that, right? Like, if something’s gonna happen here, what’s going to happen there, and I think so, I think you need to take the time to kind of, you know, have the funeral, go through the grieving process, but put a time limit on it, and don’t let it go for a week, right? You have nowhere to go but forward and kind of come up with those solutions in general, I think you’re right, Joe. I think the one thing that’s really important is if you’re in sales, or if you’re in an entrepreneur or whatever leadership position, you have to always be thinking of if this, then that what happens if, and kind of have a playbook you can’t cover every scenario, but you can certainly have a playbook where you have a plan that’s one two. Never take your pipeline for granted in a business or as a salesperson, you can’t you can’t say, hey, things look good today. I closed a bunch of deals this quarter. I’m going to be great for the next quarter, right? In fact, when things are good is when you should be working on that pipeline even more, right? And fostering those things. You can either grow the business there, but I do see a lot of what happens is this kind of lackadaisical attitude, especially when you’ve got a whale, right? So for this person, actually like this, obviously, this client was a whale. Call it a quarter million bucks a year. And they rode that wave until the wave dissipated and kind of went its natural course. That’s the second thing. I think the third thing and final thing is, as a business, you should always have a termination runway, right? Whether it’s 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, depending on the model, there’s all sorts of different ones. There are 12 month contracts with penalties for early termination, and enforce that contract so that you’re not waking up one day and having a rug pulled out from under you. And it’s like, Oh, my God, I’m whatever. I’m not going to make my pipeline next week I won’t be able to make payroll. If you’re a business owner, you know, contracts are there for a reason. They were signed for a reason, and they should not be just walked on by a new client. Like maybe that marketing manager has no idea that there is a 90 day termination clause. Well, they can pay it out and fire you, and you can walk away. They can get the value for the next 90 days. But certainly, if you’re in sales, you should be well informed, if you’re not about what the terms are of that thing, and you should really make sure you make it, make it known. Like I said, so much to unpack inside of this thing. So much poor, this poor person, though I, you know, like, I hope that they’re not, like, beating themselves up and what is it, flatulating themselves like whipping themselves, hmm, I never know what that what, what that term is, but whatever. Don’t be. I just

Joseph DellaVecchia 18:41
always think about the Da Vinci Code, that scene, right?

Dan Nedelko 18:45
And there was that guy. I read The Da Vinci Code and I saw the movie. There was the one guy, the one character in the book. I know that he was in that, that sect that, like he had barbs in him, so every time he moved, it would like stab him. And that was his penance, yeah, yeah. Don’t be that person that’s that’s the lesson,

Joseph DellaVecchia 19:01
don’t be the barb guy from The Da Vinci Code, right? Yeah, that’s our first piece of merch for this podcast. Is

Dan Nedelko 19:10
sorry. Tom Hanks, sorry. Dan Brown, can’t remember the book or the movie. All right, moving right along. Joe, over to your next one. All

Joseph DellaVecchia 19:20
right, awesome. This one is from r slash marketing Dan, and this is someone talking about their first internship.

Unknown Speaker 19:27
Okay, sounds good. This

Joseph DellaVecchia 19:29
was my first internship. I was asked to help make company merchandise, including towels, pens, erasers, mugs and car air fresheners. Mid project, two distant neurons finally communicated, and I began to wonder why a relatively unknown B to B ship repair company that gets most of its revenue from two contractors, merch. I went to the CEO and pointed out that the whole marketing team me agreed that spending 60,000 euros, approximately $64,865.90 Cents on merch that no one will buy is nonsensical. To my amazement, after several months of boxes full of worthless merch sitting in our warehouse, each employee received three towels, two mugs, five pens and a handful of car air fresheners. When I asked why, the response was, see young man, now every employee will market our company wherever they go. At first, I thought it was genius, but then the same two neurons turned back on and pointed out that our employees are really unlikely to be seen with the merch anywhere in public, not to mention, even if some get noticed by a big shot manager on a beach with a towel, they won’t go back running to their bosses saying, OMG, this guy I saw on the beach used a towel with a relatively unknown brand fixing pipes on ships. Really, really well and really, really cheap. We should hire them. Then I have so many. But what are your thoughts on this one? Well,

Dan Nedelko 20:58
this is a perfect time when the CEO should not be doing this, but all too often, especially this, again, I’m guessing this is a this is a small company, right? Small business, or is it not really B to B, B to

Joseph DellaVecchia 21:14
B, ship repair, so I don’t really know. Honestly. I mean, not too much details, yeah.

Dan Nedelko 21:19
I mean, let’s just say their marketing department is probably pretty small, regardless of the size of the company. I mean, they’ve obviously got 65k us, so you’re looking at 85k 90k Canadian. More than that, actually, yeah, more like 90 is a especially the the you see young man kind of quote. It sure seems like that CEO was stepping outside of his lane a little bit and trying to be the smartest guy in the room and then saving face. He’s probably a good talker, but, yeah, that’s a that’s a great example of probably the intern is the only person in the marketing department. Have never seen that before? Have you? Never the intern is the only one in the

Joseph DellaVecchia 22:04
marketing department. I was that intern is the only one in the marketing department when I finished college my first job,

Dan Nedelko 22:09
right? So it does happen and the CEO wants to be the smartest guy in the room. Happens all the time. Yeah, that’s my initial take on it. That I think, is the landscape. How about you?

Joseph DellaVecchia 22:24
I think my initial take is it goes back, I think, a few episodes, to when we talked about Google business profiles, which is, know your audience, know what they’re looking for and know what is the best way to appeal to your audience. In that episode, we talked about how if you’re a small and local business, if you’re doing one thing, it’s use Google business profile for that Visio, just like this right here. It’s knowing your audience. How are people going to see you? How are they going to know you? How are they going to get the word out? Seems like this is a pretty specific B to B operation with specific targets and decision makers you need to reach. Sounds to me a lot more like Account Based Marketing is going to be way more effective here than merchandise. Now, it’s cool to have merchandise. I’ve seen lots of B to B companies have merchandise on their like, on their websites, or it’s just something that, you know, they hand out at a meeting, or something like that. Seen that before, and you know, maybe you make a little bit impassive revenue. Or it’s a really great thing for brand awareness to have no argument there. But if you think that is what’s going to take your business to the next step and elevate it when like the person, like the intern, points out, nobody is going to see this, and even if they do, they’re going to be on vacation and they’re not going to get the information they need from seeing your logo on a towel. Yeah, this is a product or service that requires education,

Dan Nedelko 23:39
yeah, for sure. And I mean, it screams, you need ABM, most of the revenue comes from two clients. So there’s probably two more clients out there that would double the revenue of this business with 60 grand. We’ll call it 90 grand because it sounds better and it’s Canadian. If you were going to do that, well, you would then have $45,000 to wine, dine, schmooze, send custom tools, or whatever the heck it is that they do, you could find something and do, and that’s the whole point of ABM, right? Is like, get rid of the merch. Get rid of the towels like you, because you only have a small number of Tiara clients and real key targets that you want to go after, even if they’re in the hundreds, and if you’re a bigger organization, even if they’re in the 1000s, if this guy has two, I mean, think of the things that they could do, right? They could send custom tools over to their prospective clients. They could offer a $45,000 discount for the first 12 months. I mean, for right, like, I mean, there you go. That certainly is a door opener in terms of loyalty in those types of spaces. But, you know, I think it also comes down to a really important point on this one, is the intern is obviously too junior to kind of stand up to the CEO of the company. I don’t think the power dynamic. Could be any further across the spectrum than that, right? You’ve got a, what is probably a young intern in school or fresh out of school, talking directly to the CEO, so like, there’s no intimidation there, right? I think one of the tactics that I would use, and I have used in in my past with this kind of thing, especially on the agency side. Because, you know, we you do run into this. You certainly do is a very plainly written, so not a whole lot of like, flowery language, not like this is a terrible idea. You shouldn’t do this, etc, etc. I would send it in an email, very matter of factly. Like, this is my recommendation. You can take it or you cannot take it. But I need to state this clearly. I like using that technique too, which is, when someone does something, it’s like, I can’t argue with you, because the power dynamic, you are the person in charge here, right? And quite often, you know, the person in charge is not actually the person in charge. I mean, I work for every one of our clients, right? I’m not like, I’m, by far, not a boss, right? So you have to convince the recipient of this. And a way to do it is just to say, This is my recommendation. I couldn’t be more firm about it, or I couldn’t, you know, recommend this more strongly. Here’s what I think you should do. Here’s why I think that this will not work out well, but ultimately, it’s your call. But I have to, kind of, you know, it’s like being in court. I think it’s like for the record, like, I have to go on the record as saying this so that, you know, I can wash my hands of this, like Pontius Pilot, like, I want nothing to do with this. If it tanks.

Joseph DellaVecchia 26:42
I have nothing else to add. I think that’s a very perfect summary of it.

Dan Nedelko 26:46
Cool, yeah. And I mean, I really do think, like when you in this really does relate to Account Based Marketing and to sales is oftentimes, you know, people talk about merch and they talk about promo stuff, and it’s always pens and post it notes. And, I mean, you go to a conference, right? You’re gonna get, you’re gonna get a whole bag of the same stuff,

Joseph DellaVecchia 27:10
right? Branded stress ball. Yeah,

Dan Nedelko 27:12
exactly the branded stress ball, the calculator, the coffee mug, you know, USB, terribly underpowered USB drive, like three gigabytes or two gigabytes or something. You know, you know the drill. The reality is, is that merchandise, like free promo stuff, can work, but you’ve got to really think about it, and please God, don’t give people post it notes and pens, although people do love pens, at least get nice pens, right? Like it’s something that’s memorable in those things, and really tailor it in ABM so you could send it directly to your prospect in a wrapped box with a nice thing that they will actually use. Yeah, it’s, it’s a, it’s a way that you can kind of contend with that. So alrighty, moving right along the story for us. Dan, I’ve got, I think this is our final story, actually, final story, final story of the day. We’re trying to last time we said we were going to do a half an hour, and we ended up doing an hour. So you know, we don’t want to necessarily do that. Let’s see here. Okay, so this one is on the sales side. This one is started a new SDR gig about a month ago, selling software development Pro Services. The SDR function sits under marketing. So my boss has never worked sales in their life. I’m being told to do 100% ABM messaging since the other SDR was having no success from high volume outreach, spent about two hours making an ABM campaign only to queue up seven people. Since our target segment is sub 500 million annual recurring revenue, talking to people is why I like sales. I need to find a way to spend more time on the phone. Even if no one answers, it still feels like I’m getting something done. If you look a salesman being forced into marketing, sitting and writing, except I have a quota hanging over my head. No experience selling proserve or to start up this small 15 total headcount is ABM really the only way forward. So that’s the scenario. Any thoughts right off the top, Joe, so

Joseph DellaVecchia 29:21
I think my thought right off the top is that this just screams, and we talked this In last episode. The biggest pain point we see with ABM, there isn’t an alignment between sales and marketing and ABM is sales and marketing alignment. If this, this marketing team should be working with the salesperson to help make that process easier, and the salesperson should be working with the marketing team to help understand the product. Understand the product and their process so they can create an effective strategy together. I think the salesperson also needs to understand the importance of building that personal one to one connection with the target account, contact whoever it is, and how valuable that’s going to be. One thing that I’ve seen a lot in my. Experience of working with sales people from across B, B to C, wherever. Is that, when they have a technique that works, they’re very resistant to change or to try a new technique. No, they’ve got like, Nope, I got this. I know I can get someone we said the last time. You know, you always hear like, if I can just get them on the phone, if I can just get them in the room face to

Dan Nedelko 30:19
face, if I can look them, if I can look them in the eye, right? That’s a big one, and that’s

Joseph DellaVecchia 30:25
and that’s then where it comes to, like, okay, maybe, but like, face to face, look him in the eye. That’s closing the deal. That’s your last step. Let’s get you there, and we have effective ways to get you there. So I do say this with a little bit of the marketers lens on, I’ll admit, but ultimately, it’s just the importance of alignment and working together, and not just the marketing team saying, Go do ABM to the salesperson who’s never done it before and just has a vague understanding, right?

Dan Nedelko 30:49
So I think that, I think that’s the first thing you hit the nail on the head, is, you know, what is ABM to this person? I don’t think they really clearly know, and I don’t think that their marketing director knows what it is, because in true ABM, you do not tell a fish to climb a tree, which is exactly what’s happening here. You don’t take someone that’s very good. That’s like saying ABM does not include outbound calling, and that’s not true. That’s not true at all. Account Based Marketing does not increase the divide between digital and what you would call traditional sales method. In fact, it merges the two. So why would you take someone that has success with calling, that knows how to call, and say, now don’t call, because we don’t call at this point in our funnel. The funnel has to be flexible enough to say, Oh, we can accommodate that that calling portion of it. And in fact, I mean, you’d be crazy to do ABM without any calling whatsoever. Now, should you do cold calling? Where do you do it? How do you do it? There’s always a nuance to that. And this poor soul spent two hours making an ABM campaign, not sure what it was, probably an email sequence of some sort, and not having any luck with it at all. So the the other dynamic here is that they’ve put the SDRs, the sales development reps, and the BDRs, the business development reps, which are usually really what like that fundamentally comes down to, is they’re the call setters for the for the salespeople. That’s, that’s their job is to nurture. Sometimes, organizations will put those people under the marketing team, which isn’t a bad idea, as long as the person running marketing has sales experience or can appreciate what goes into that process, right? Doesn’t sound like that’s the case here, and it’s a huge problem. So, you know, if I were giving this person advice, you’re in a small company, your total headcount is only 15, I would just go right to the President and the marketing leader, whoever that is, sit them down and say, Look, this is how I’m successful. I can’t be successful. It’s not going to work, right? Like, this is going to fail for all various reasons. So, like, you could take that approach in this scenario, right? And there’s a really great comment here, I want to kind of go over to because some of the comments actually have a lot of really good feedback here. So wait, I understand this, seven contacts per lease per day, this ends up averaging out like 34 unique activities at full volume. That sounds like a part time job, or it’s multithreading at the lead stage is necessary, getting into and through to accounts. That’s really like you got to talk to other salespeople here, because that’s not enough. You’re never going to close. You need more volume than that in order to close that to get to your sales targets. Like, you’re going to be basically staring at the wall and and if you see the like Thelma and Louise, right? Like, if you if you know the car is going off the cliff. I you’d be like, Thelma and Louise and go right on over. They do that, right? I got that, right? They do yes, but you don’t want to be rolling towards it like hoping, like, Gee, I hope I can get out going really slow. You know, if you’re, if you’re going at two miles per hour towards the cliff, and the cliff is a couple of miles away, get out of the car like any time and figure out the right way to do it. Don’t just slowly, you know, that would be really sad just to be sitting in that car slowly going over the edge of that cliff after a year or so of doing that.

Joseph DellaVecchia 34:36
So 100% Totally agree it’s Yeah, and we said it before, you know, we’ll say it again. The worst people to talk about sales and marketing alignment

Dan Nedelko 34:48
with, yes, they typically don’t align so well, it’s the thing. It’s true

Joseph DellaVecchia 34:53
for ABM to work, it’s gotta, it’s gotta have that synergy. And just on your point of that’s not enough. When we work with clients and we start where. With them on ABM, we always say, you know, your target account list started with 100 you need to have those 100 target accounts, right?

Dan Nedelko 35:08
Yeah. And I mean a couple of things. One, we come at it, and I hate that it’s called Account Based Marketing, because it’s, it’s, it’s sales and marketing alignment is what it is, right? So sometimes we meet sales teams, and there’s some resistance to working on this, like all you wouldn’t know you you know it takes, it is a significant boulder to roll up a hill, if it’s not phrased and introduced properly in the sense that we are aligning with the best activities that sales does. So whatever’s working for you right now, we want to know what that is, and then we’re going to enhance it. We’re going to make it better, because we’re going to take what’s working, integrate it into a full flow for the stuff that we know works, and everything’s going to get stronger, but it’s going to follow what you’re doing right now. So yeah, the sales and the marketing alignment, super duper important in terms of how this whole process works, and so the sales teams and the marketing teams are often, and it’s often not all at war, right? It’s a Cold War. It’s a war of inertia. It’s a war of lack of response. It’s a war of lack of engagement. It’s a war of a lack of communication. These are problems inside of organizations that organizations constantly need to be aware of, because it’s the silent killer, right? It’s like, well, no, our sales teams and marketing teams, they don’t fight, but they also don’t work together. They don’t collaborate, and it’s so it’s very polite, right? It’s very friendly, it’s very corporately friendly, but it certainly isn’t collaborative and moving that thing forward. And that’s that, that’s that internal resistance, that silent killer that really needs to be addressed specifically by sales leadership and marketing leadership, that mom and dad get along, everybody else on the team gets along, and this is how we’re going to do it, right? So that’s all

Joseph DellaVecchia 37:06
I have to sum it up. If ABM is rolling a boulder up a hill, don’t be Sisyphus.

Dan Nedelko 37:12
I think that’s the second Sisyphus reference you’ve had this week. Or was that last week? Last

Joseph DellaVecchia 37:18
two weeks,

Dan Nedelko 37:19
the last one? Okay, I’ve gone about 25 years without a real Sisyphus reference. Just for anyone that is unsure about who Sisyphus is, Joe.

Joseph DellaVecchia 37:29
In Greek mythology, Sisyphus is the one that is cursed to roll the boulder up the hill. And once it gets to the top, it will roll back down, and he will forever be forced to complete his task, essentially, getting to the height only you have to restart from the bottom, a modern day reference of Sisyphus is Darth Mauls complete Star Wars arc from The Phantom Menace to Star Wars. Oh,

Dan Nedelko 37:48
wow. You just nerd it out. And you had a Star Wars reference in the middle of a Sales Marketing podcast. Good job. You go Star Wars three would be proud of you, wouldn’t you? Yeah, there you go. All right, we have now hit the time. Finally, what not to do? Yes, go ahead, Joe. I want,

Joseph DellaVecchia 38:07
I want to put it like this. You know, I understand people coming to us and saying, What should I do on LinkedIn? You don’t really know what to do LinkedIn advertising. I feel like they don’t even know what they’re doing. They’re changing the rules every five seconds over there. But you know, sometimes it’s like what not to do. Okay, you know, maybe you shouldn’t post this type of content, or maybe you should structure your content this way. That’s what I would think the What Not To Dos. But sometimes people do things that you think are very obvious what not to do, but they’re still doing it, and that’s why the subreddit r slash LinkedIn lunatics exists. It’s a subreddit Damn that you actually turned me on to and it’s filled with people posting, some of it satire, but most of it, I’d say about 90% of it, is people posting things on LinkedIn that they really shouldn’t do. And the only way to really emphasizing at this point across, I think, is to go through some real examples. Yeah, really awesome things we found,

Dan Nedelko 38:59
if you’re having, yeah, recently. I mean, this stuff is all hot off the presses. None of this is like old. Sometimes you’ll find memes and they’re a few years old. LinkedIn lunatics is one of my favorite places. If you’re having a bad sales day, go check out LinkedIn lunatics. If you’re frustrated because your LinkedIn post isn’t getting any traction, go visit LinkedIn lunatics. I think the important thing about this LinkedIn lunatics is super entertaining. Even the satire is great. The best part is when it’s absolutely real. That is the part that makes it even more entertaining. And please God, you know, don’t do these things. You know, in the quest for LinkedIn engagement, people are willing to go to great lengths to do very, very well, what would con the the thing about common sense is that it’s not so common anymore. Isn’t that your old man? Funny

Joseph DellaVecchia 39:50
thing about common sense is that it’s not so common anymore, right? My but my martial arts teacher used to say to me all the time,

Dan Nedelko 39:57
right? So people are con. Constantly asking us, what should I do on LinkedIn, and what shouldn’t I do? And, I mean, you know, would you do it in real life? Like, if you wouldn’t do it in real life, then please, you probably shouldn’t do it on LinkedIn. That’s the first one. So why don’t you kick us off with good old Steve Rigby here? Yeah,

Joseph DellaVecchia 40:13
I wanna talk about Steve Rigby here. Steve Rigby is a principal at Rigby Associates, and it looks like he’s trying to be a thought leader on LinkedIn. We’ve all been there. You know, you want people to notice and respect your opinion and see you as an expert in the field. It’s true. And so Steve commented on this video. The videos crop. We don’t really know what the video is, but Steve’s comment on the video is, they earn so much. There is never a personal risk. CEO bollocks, I am afraid. I’ve worked with them. So he’s, he’s right now making a comment and calling out CEOs and saying that, you know, there’s no personal risk

Dan Nedelko 40:46
for them. And the first, yeah, oh, go ahead. I don’t want to interrupt. Go ahead and you know. So you look at this, you see

Joseph DellaVecchia 40:51
a comment. And usually, you know, if I’m making a comment and I want to see traction again, I’m going to sit back and I’m going to wait and see if anyone interacts with it, see if anybody starts discussing it with me and form a discourse from there, Steve did get a comment back. He got one comment back, and this person is agreeing with Steve. And so you think that would be great for Steve’s engagement and for people to see him as a thought leader. The only problem is that he’s common. Agreeing with him is from Steve himself one minute after making his original comment, Yeah, where’s Steve Rigby comments tagging Steve Rigby saying, great point, Steve, good

Dan Nedelko 41:34
job. Steve. The

Joseph DellaVecchia 41:35
comment also has one like which I assume is Steve Rigby liking his own comment. I cannot

Dan Nedelko 41:42
be. The only way to make this better would be for Steve Rigby to fully go into an entire back and forth thread. You know, have an argument, have a debate. You know, go down that rabbit hole. Steve, yeah, you know, you’ve got to have at least one friend. I mean, I think I have one friend at least. I mean, I’ve got kids, so that’s okay. Get your wife, get your mother, get your cousin, get somebody to, like, even reach out and ask them, Can you please, like, you know, throw this comment down, but don’t do it yourself. That’s it’s not a good look. So it’s

Joseph DellaVecchia 42:19
the one person liking and reposting all your LinkedIn stuff. Me, my your one LinkedIn friend. Yeah,

Dan Nedelko 42:24
well, you might be my one friend. So there’s that. And I think I have to pay you for that, so that’s good, too. All right, moving right along. Dennis hegstad, I’m gonna, actually, this is your gem, Joe. So I can, I can get

Joseph DellaVecchia 42:41
my gem. And so then I phrase it to you like this. Dennis HEG said, tweeted essentially a would you rather question? And you know, I think it’s, it’s an interesting question that we should take a moment and discuss. Dan hypothetical here, would you rather if I could give you one of the following two things? Which one are you going to take? Would you rather take a $1.2 billion winning lottery ticket, or 100,000 LinkedIn followers.

Dan Nedelko 43:07
I mean, it’s, it’s not even a pause, even though I paused, you would obviously take the 1.2 billion for like, for 1.2 billion reasons. But what did Dennis say? Dennis

Joseph DellaVecchia 43:20
said he’s choosing option B, 100,000 LinkedIn followers every time. He says, You should never underestimate the power of having a personal brand online. And I will agree with one thing. Dennis is right. You should never underestimate the power of having a personal brand online. We’ve seen it happen with many in many different ways, in many different cultures. What power a brand can have for you. However, I did the math before we sat down, Dan and 100,000 LinkedIn followers. At $1.2 billion is $12,000 per person. I cannot imagine a world where 100,000 people follow you, where you pay $12,000 to have someone follow you, and they make up that value over time, they somehow bring you in new business. They somehow elevate you to this whole new level. I cannot see you spending $12,000 per person and having a positive return on investment on that.

Dan Nedelko 44:11
I mean, I guess LinkedIn. I mean, I guess you could treat this like a thought experiment, but I don’t think Dennis has really thought through the thought experiment fully, because if you got a $1.2 billion in cash, you could easily get yourself a million LinkedIn followers, simply by taking, I don’t know, a quarter million dollars, which is a small fraction. So I think also people forget about what a billion is, right? 1000 million dollars, that is an enormously large amount of money, not even close, right? So you get 1000 you get 1000 $200 million even if you took 50 of them, of the millions, and solely put it into LinkedIn. I mean, I. Good lord, you could certainly get 100,000 LinkedIn followers for that. You could certainly have a ghostwritten book, you could have a TV show, you could do all sorts of things. So the thought experiment here falls to pieces. I think the lesson for me in this one is, I mean, don’t try to be too friggin clever. I think Dennis was really trying too hard here. Probably had somebody ghostwrite this and didn’t check it. You know, Twitter slash x right now is, well, actually, I think we’ve got an example coming up. I see so many of these, like, you know, Apple released iOS 18. Here’s nine things you need to know about. Or, I watched the Avengers last night. And here’s nine things I learned. Like, I mean, it is the most overdone contents, pasta, content, copy, pasta that you could possibly see. I think that’s possibly what happened here, because it’s, I’m a little embarrassed for Dennis, and I, I don’t well. I hope he doesn’t have a professional life to account for on social Well,

Joseph DellaVecchia 46:03
the first thing I want to say is I appreciate you trying to find the lesson in an r slash LinkedIn post. I think that’s and to find an actual, real lesson is true. Also, that’s a valuable skill you’ve got there. But I want to go back to your point of just understanding how much 1.2 billion is in people not realizing. And it reminds me of when I was in high school in math, my math teacher put a line on the board and put one end and one end. He put zero on the left end and 1 billion on the right end. He gave me the marker. He said, Joe, go mark on the board where you think $1 million is between zero and 1 billion. I walked up and I put the line right in the middle. Made sense to me, you know, grade nine math. I’m like, yeah, it’s right in the middle. And then we went through it, and where it actually stands is that it is very, very close, like a centimeter, maybe two centimeters away from zero on this line is where he put the mark for 1 million. Because zero to a million is a lot already, yeah, but then you have to redo that 1000 times, and that’s how you get to a billion. A billion, yeah, billion is so much. It’s like, yeah, it would be like, but like, here’s Yeah, I love my job. If I had $1.2 billion Dan, I’m sorry I’m not coming into work

Dan Nedelko 47:17
tomorrow. I don’t blame you, and I don’t think I would. I would tell you, I want a billion dollars. They’ll see in, like, I don’t know, a month, whatever happens, I don’t really care. I think, I think that’s pretty normal. Yeah, I think of the math side of it, you know. And that’s the interesting thing, when you see influencers talking, whether it’s on YouTube, on LinkedIn, on Twitter, on wherever it is, and, you know, even if you say like I’m a millionaire because you have a business, you’re not a millionaire. Otherwise I’d be a millionaire and I’m not a millionaire. But if you have a legitimate millionaire comparing themselves to Elon Musk or Jeffrey Bezos or anybody that’s on the billionaires list, right, it’s not even a valid comparison. The two are just so wildly off in terms of economies of scale and exponential growth. So yeah, I think that. I think beyond that, I think the takeaway is stop trying to be too clever, right, and beat this one to death. All right, moving on to our next one here. This is a this is a good one again. Please stop trying to farm engagement on LinkedIn. This is definitely something you should not do. And it was Business Insider, right? Like this guy. So Business Insider, not one of my favorite publications. I think that they, they do a lot of just like anything for the click, but here’s the quote, my divorce was the worst job I ever had. Make no mistake, it was an unpaid job with unreasonable hours. So I decided, like any job I’ve had to put my divorce and my LinkedIn resume says, Carl Dunn. Good job. Carl.

Joseph DellaVecchia 48:57
Can I say something that might just be a hot take that I want to preface. I have no pre information. I’m just, I’m making an assumption here. Okay, this guy got divorced because he was married to his job and not his wife.

Dan Nedelko 49:11
Either that or he was really bad at creating content to try to, like, farm content. One of the two, either way, I’m happy for his ex wife. Yeah, congratulations, you did a good job. I don’t even know what to say, you know, like, yes, we talk about being witty. We talk about, you know, be creative, be witty, be funny. I can’t tell if any of those things are at play here, but it certainly is not in great taste to and I mean, maybe he just hates his ex wife. I mean, cool, but, yeah, I don’t. I don’t really have much else to comment except don’t do this.

Joseph DellaVecchia 49:50
This one’s just funny. This one’s for our amusement. Honestly, yes,

Dan Nedelko 49:53
this is for our amusement. And we’re going down the route, oh, sorry. We’re gonna say something there. I

Joseph DellaVecchia 49:58
was just gonna say, Dan, like, our. Last one that we’re going to talk about, which I think is what you about to segue here goes back to that trend you were talking about, where people are overusing those content copy pastas, where they no longer original or creative. They’ve kind of become a meme at this point. And one of the most popular ones that we’ve seen is what this taught me about B to B sales, and people trying to take real life experiences and translate that to B to B sales, one of the most common, overused ones is people proposing, taking the event of proposing and saying what my proposal taught me about B to B. Sales, and I always find it really weird when they then talk about negotiating. I’m like, why are you negotiating in your proposal? Your marriage proposal, doesn’t I have comments about that.

Dan Nedelko 50:41
There’s, there’s actually, that’s interrupt you. There is a great LinkedIn lunatics threat about that very thing, yeah, yeah,

Joseph DellaVecchia 50:49
yeah. But you found one Dan that absolutely like, I think takes the

Dan Nedelko 50:53
cake. Yeah, it’s, it’s a good one. And if you’re watching on YouTube or on the video, you would have seen it already. And, you know, just hang on so bow tied. Cool surf. I’m not sure if I’m saying that right, but I’m gonna try. My wife got pregnant by another man. It’s been a challenging nine months knowing he’s not only my son, he’s not my son, but I’m so excited to raise him like my own. Nice thought. Here’s nine things that taught me about B to B sales. And I wish we had nine failed trumpet I wish we could. We could find them. Maybe we will find them for a future episode in the world of analogies, this is wrong on so many levels. I don’t think it taught you anything. Anyways, I don’t even know what to say they’re really I can’t tell if this is satire. I am hoping bow tied qual is, is a satire channel, and this is taking a jab at everybody that posts these nine things that taught me about something, not just B to B sales, but anything. I got nothing. I got nothing on this except, like, don’t be this guy.

Joseph DellaVecchia 52:02
Like you’re, you’re just airing out your personal laundry for clicks at that point. And the shock factor up at the top, which, I mean, there’s so many other ways you can talk about shock factor. People on LinkedIn love a good statistic, lead with a shocking statistic. Don’t lead with your wife got pregnant. Yeah,

Dan Nedelko 52:20
I think there’s a difference, just like with anything. I mean, if we’re gonna take this down a slightly serious road as we wrap up for this episode, is, you know, it’s not anything for clicks, because LinkedIn is full of that. There are people that their job is just LinkedIn engagement, and they farm it as much as they can, and the tropes are tired Well, well, the content has become a trope, right? A content has become a meme because they’ve used it, reused it. They squeezed that lemon a million times, and they just keep doing the same thing that is not someone to follow that at all. I think what you need to do is you actually need to find your own voice and provide value to the people that that you are intending to be valuable to, and that can be a really small group. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t have to be millions of people. So don’t just try to and, I mean, I think on Tiktok now, right? It’s the is it a Gen Alpha? Like a Gen X tries to speak. Gen alphas is a bit of a thing for farming engagement, right? Yeah. And once it’s funny, and okay, you do it. I see this real estate agent. I think he’s done like two dozen of these videos, and he’s farming engagement at that point, it’s a bit too much right. Like you’re you’ve gone over, you’ve crossed over a line of providing valuable content into really damaging your own brand, looking like an idiot using these things in the wrong way. And like I said, my hope is that this is actually a jab at that format, this copy PASTA format, which is really like, if you go on to Twitter, my my Twitter timeline is just polluted with this stuff. There isn’t nine things that I haven’t been taught by, everything from the Samsung product release to the Apple WWDC to the last episode of of House of Dragon. Like it’s, it’s just done, and it’s ridiculous.

Joseph DellaVecchia 54:25
Here’s what the last episode of House of Dragon taught me about B to B sales, bring a dragon with you to get what you want.

Dan Nedelko 54:30
Yeah, exactly. Well, no, here’s what the last episode of House of the Dragon taught me about B to B sales is. Don’t give away the climax three episodes before the end of the season. There you go. That’s it. That’s all because that’s exactly what happened. If you haven’t watched house of the dragon, I think it’s eight episodes. Episode Five really is the constructive season finale, which is the big battle scene with the dragons. Everything else after that is just talking

Joseph DellaVecchia 54:59
you. Not in a good way.

Dan Nedelko 55:01
No, not in a good way. I was, honestly, I like the show a lot. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a vast, vast worlds better than the last few seasons of Game of Thrones. But, I mean, I was like, why am I even watching this? I don’t even care at this point, this, these last few episodes, especially the final episode of the season. So anyways, that’s a different rabbit hole.

Joseph DellaVecchia 55:25
Or Dan’s thoughts. I’m sure there’s a pop culture and movie streaming podcast he’s been on before to talk about these types of things,

Dan Nedelko 55:32
and it would actually be 21st century cinema

Joseph DellaVecchia 55:38
TF, streaming, wherever you get your podcast, that’s right. Search I hear the host is really good looking. Search

Dan Nedelko 55:42
up TF CC, 21st century cinema, hosted by Joseph dellavecchia. And you can hit up the number one most streamed episode ever of TFCC is guest host

Joseph DellaVecchia 55:58
by Dan nedelko. Yes, it is true for no

Dan Nedelko 56:01
lack episode, for no lack of opinion on popcorn versus cinema. Popcorn, film versus cinema. So anyhow, with that, I think we can do a graceful exit. We said we were going to do 25 minutes. We are now at pretty much an hour again. So yeah,

Joseph DellaVecchia 56:17
you know. But if you’re here and you’re listening. That means you like it. That’s, that’s, you know, we found our people. They’re okay listening to us Blab. When we say, Hey, we’re gonna go for 25 minutes and we go for an hour. Dan, I think you have the same experience as I do. Where my wife I say, I’m gonna blab for 25 minutes. At 26 minutes, she’s like, can we go? People are here and they’re and they’re staying for it. If you think we’re on the right

Dan Nedelko 56:40
track, if you think for one second I’m inserting myself in a conversation between you and your wife on a recorded podcast that will live on the internet, you gotta be insane. Katie’s

Joseph DellaVecchia 56:49
right. You’re a talker like me. I’m assuming you’ve had a similar experience. Oh, I

Dan Nedelko 56:53
have, I have, my wife just zones out. She just zones out, like, like, I’ve

Joseph DellaVecchia 56:57
watched, she’s learned. I’ve

Dan Nedelko 56:58
watched Star Wars, uh, episode for A New Hope, well over 175 times in the almost 20 years we’ve been together, every time I turn it on, it’s as if she’s never seen it before. She is so good at just she legitimately does not watch it, but it looks like she is watching it, but she’s not. She’s not absorbing it. So that is a special superpower of hers and hers alone. All right, no, if you’re still here, no, that’s fantastic, and that’s great. You know, we do these relatively unscripted, and we’re continuing to do these with a focus on sales, marketing, ABM, agency, life, sales, life, all of those things. So thanks for being here. Thanks for subscribing, thanks for following. If you’re listening to us on Apple podcast or Spotify, please leave us a like comment. Follow us and give us a star rating review. That stuff is really, you know, it’s the lifeblood of podcasts. And we’re back, and we’re going to be, I think we’re every other week now, right, Joe,

Joseph DellaVecchia 58:04
that’s the goal. We’re every other week, every other week,

Dan Nedelko 58:07
with another episode and probably some smaller ones to be inserted, so you can expect a good, consistent flow. And we’ve seen amazing growth in live at the high digital marketing from the trenches, or it’s digital marketing from the trenches live at the hive. We’re a bit schizophrenic on it. We even picked out some really fancy new podcast music that we will be introducing probably in this episode. So that’s it. That’s a wrap for this week.

Joseph DellaVecchia 58:37
We’ll see you guys next time with another exciting episode.

Dan Nedelko 58:40
That’s it. That’s the outro. Boom. Thanks so much. We’re signing off. Oh, I think I used to say peas and carrots. No, that was my kids stream. Anyways, have a great weekend. Have a great week. We’ll see you on the next episode of digital marketing from the trenches, peace!

In the latest episode of Live at the Hive, hosts Dan and Joe dive into the essentials of Account Based Marketing (ABM) and its impact on business growth. As a strategic tool, ABM helps businesses target high-value accounts by aligning sales and marketing efforts. Here, we’ll summarize key points discussed in this insightful podcast and explore how you can implement an effective ABM strategy to boost your B2B sales.

ABM is a focused growth strategy that uses marketing resources to engage a specific set of high-value accounts. Unlike traditional broad-spectrum marketing methods, ABM involves creating personalized campaigns tailored to individual accounts or small groups of accounts. This approach ensures that marketing efforts are directed towards the most promising leads, resulting in higher conversion rates and stronger customer relationships.

The success of ABM hinges on the seamless alignment of sales and marketing teams. Effective communication between these departments is crucial. Sales teams provide insights on successful deal closures and potential leads, while marketing creates content and campaigns based on this information. This collaboration ensures that messaging is consistent and targeted.

Identify and prioritize high-value accounts that are most likely to benefit from your product or service. Focus on understanding their specific needs and pain points. This helps in creating tailored marketing strategies. Engaging with these target accounts can involve personalized emails, customized content, and strategic outreach activities.

Implementing the right technology is essential for an efficient ABM strategy. Use Customer Relationship Management (CRM) software and marketing automation tools to track engagement, manage workflows, and score leads. These tools help in moving prospects seamlessly through the sales funnel, from initial awareness to closing the deal.

Your content should provide value to your targeted accounts at every stage of the buyer’s journey. Offer in-depth insights, industry-specific reports, and thought leadership pieces that address their unique challenges. Ensure that your content is not only informative but also engaging and easily accessible.

Lead nurturing plays a crucial role in ABM. Use a combination of email marketing, social media engagement, and personalized messages to keep your prospects interested. Regularly update them with relevant information and demonstrate your expertise, helping to build trust and credibility over time.

In addition to these strategies, video content can significantly enhance your lead nurturing efforts. Videos provide a dynamic and engaging way to present valuable information, keeping prospects more engaged. With an easy-to-use video maker, you can create personalized videos that deliver your message effectively and help build stronger connections with your audience.

Don’t overlook the effectiveness of traditional sales tactics such as cold calling, warm calling, and attending networking events or conferences. These methods help in building personal connections and can lead to valuable face-to-face interactions with potential clients.

Implementing an effective ABM strategy can transform your sales and marketing efforts, leading to higher engagement and conversion rates. By aligning your teams, defining target accounts, and leveraging the right technology, you can ensure that your marketing efforts are focused on the most promising opportunities. Remember, successful ABM is about building meaningful relationships with your clients and providing them with personalized, high-quality content that addresses their specific needs.

Stay tuned for more insights on ABM and other marketing strategies by following the Digital Marketing from the Trenches podcast, everywhere you listen to podcasts.

Account Based Marketing for Business to Business Sales Teams

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In the latest episode of Live at the Hive, hosts Dan and Joe dive into the essentials of Account Based Marketing (ABM) and its impact on business growth. As a strategic tool, ABM helps businesses target high-value accounts by aligning sales and marketing efforts. Here, we’ll summarize key points discussed in this insightful podcast and explore how you can implement an effective ABM strategy to boost your B2B sales.

ABM is a focused growth strategy that uses marketing resources to engage a specific set of high-value accounts. Unlike traditional broad-spectrum marketing methods, ABM involves creating personalized campaigns tailored to individual accounts or small groups of accounts. This approach ensures that marketing efforts are directed towards the most promising leads, resulting in higher conversion rates and stronger customer relationships.

The success of ABM hinges on the seamless alignment of sales and marketing teams. Effective communication between these departments is crucial. Sales teams provide insights on successful deal closures and potential leads, while marketing creates content and campaigns based on this information. This collaboration ensures that messaging is consistent and targeted.

Identify and prioritize high-value accounts that are most likely to benefit from your product or service. Focus on understanding their specific needs and pain points. This helps in creating tailored marketing strategies. Engaging with these target accounts can involve personalized emails, customized content, and strategic outreach activities.

Implementing the right technology is essential for an efficient ABM strategy. Use Customer Relationship Management (CRM) software and marketing automation tools to track engagement, manage workflows, and score leads. These tools help in moving prospects seamlessly through the sales funnel, from initial awareness to closing the deal.

Your content should provide value to your targeted accounts at every stage of the buyer’s journey. Offer in-depth insights, industry-specific reports, and thought leadership pieces that address their unique challenges. Ensure that your content is not only informative but also engaging and easily accessible.

Nurture Leads and Build Relationships

Lead nurturing plays a crucial role in ABM. Use a combination of email marketing, social media engagement, and personalized messages to keep your prospects interested. Regularly update them with relevant information and demonstrate your expertise, helping to build trust and credibility over time.

Don’t overlook the effectiveness of traditional sales tactics such as cold calling, warm calling, and attending networking events or conferences. These methods help in building personal connections and can lead to valuable face-to-face interactions with potential clients.

Implementing an effective ABM strategy can transform your sales and marketing efforts, leading to higher engagement and conversion rates. By aligning your teams, defining target accounts, and leveraging the right technology, you can ensure that your marketing efforts are focused on the most promising opportunities. Remember, successful ABM is about building meaningful relationships with your clients and providing them with personalized, high-quality content that addresses their specific needs.

Stay tuned for more insights on ABM and other marketing strategies by following the Digital Marketing from the Trenches podcast, everywhere you listen to podcasts.

Dan Nedelko and Joseph DellaVecchia discuss the importance of Google Business Profiles for local businesses. Did you know that 96% of consumers have conducted a local search in the last 30 days?

Google Business Profiles offer features like reviews, direct calls, and content posting features, making it easier for consumers to find and engage with businesses.

We also discuss the benefits of NFC tags for gathering reviews and the significance of consistent updates.

In this podcast, we’re discussing the role Google Business Profile plays in lead generation and the importance of integrating local lead generation, SEO and reviews with your marketing strategies.

Dan Nedelko and Joseph DellaVecchia discuss the importance of Google Business Profiles for local businesses. Did you know that 96% of consumers have conducted a local search in the last 30 days?

Google Business Profiles offer features like reviews, direct calls, and content posting features, making it easier for consumers to find and engage with businesses.

We also discuss the benefits of NFC tags for gathering reviews and the significance of consistent updates.

In this podcast, we’re discussing the role Google Business Profile plays in lead generation and the importance of integrating local lead generation, SEO and reviews with your marketing strategies.

Is your content not performing as well as you’d hoped? Simply creating content and releasing it doesn’t guarantee success for your business.

Content needs to be engaging and properly defined before publishing so it aligns with your target audience to create a buyer’s journey.

In this episode, we are joined by our special guest, Ken Marshall, Chief Growth Officer at RevenueZen.

Ken’s agency has developed systems that turn your website from an afterthought, into a powerful tool that generates new sales inquiries for your business without you having to lift a finger.

For the last 5 years, Ken and his team have honed their superpowers to create Google friendly content, SEO, nurturing content marketing conversions, and develop effective LinkedIn strategies.

RevenueZen looks at demand and lead generation from a holistic approach that involves tailoring strategies to the specific needs of your business.

Driven by a desire for long-term and sustainable business growth for all clients. It’s all about using your platform to create a buyer’s journey that engages with potential clients. Through proper analysis and discovery, you too can create direct solutions that will efficiently address client pain points. B2B Marketing Tips That Work In 2022: Content, SEO, Social, and Authenticity.

We’ll discuss tips and strategies to help your business improve in the B2B space. What’s on the agenda?

The B2B generation has evolved with this new idea of dark social and multiple touchpoints ad we are starting to give that the credit that it deserves when people have always made purchasing decisions that way.

The major shift is people are spending more time choosing their own journey with multiple touchpoints.

A roadmap is a communication document that outlines your product’s direction, intention and problems you are interested in solving.

Here are some best practices when building your roadmap:

Planning a successful B2B marketing strategy takes time, but when done right, it will pay off immensely for your business.

How do you tap into your audience’s context to find the content you need to create?

Building rapport involves finding common ground, establishing good communication, and building mutual respect.

We would like to thank Ken Marshall for this awesome episode.

Ken’s agency has developed systems that turn your website from an afterthought, into a powerful tool that generates new sales inquiries for your business without you having to lift a finger.

For the last 5 years, Ken and his team have honed their superpowers to create Google-approved SEO, nurture content marketing conversions, and develop effective LinkedIn strategies.

RevenueZen looks at demand and lead generation from a holistic approach that involves tailoring strategies to the specific needs of your business. Driven by a desire for long-term and sustainable business growth for all clients.

When your business grows and expands from its original design, customers new or old can become confused by the change and unsure of the direction you’re heading in.

Your company may need to redefine itself to reduce complexity, and the best way to do that is through a rebrand.

In this episode, we are joined by our two special guests, Kim Tarlo from Mint and Josh Alvernia from Clue.

Kim is the Executive Creative Director and Partner at Mint, an independent creative agency that builds brands to make a positive impact on culture and the future.

She works with brands to take on the different business challenges that they face depending on their lifecycle. Kim also works with big companies who are trying to evolve to a new audience or launch new campaigns and products.

Josh is the CEO and Co-Founder of Clue, a leading data and media partner for search, social, and programmatic advertising.

At Clue, Josh helps marketers interpret and transform their data into growth.

His team of strategists, traders, developers, data analysts, and engineers help right-size data and advertising technology to solve unique challenges and unlock businesses’ boundless potential online.

Overcoming challenges of a rebrand and finding inspiration through process and execution to deliver a clear message and service.

Rebranding a company can help it thrive and become timeless to keep up with audiences of today and the future.

The Anatomy of a Rebrand: Humanizing a Tech Brand

We’ll be discussing the inspiration, process, and execution that goes into the rebranding of a business.

Meet Kim Tarlo. She is the Executive Director and Partner at the Mint Agency based in Toronto.

Mint Agency works with brands that take on different business challenges such as rebranding.

They work with different clients who are trying to evolve to a new audience or launch new campaigns or products.

Meet Josh Alvernia from Clue Digital. Clue Digital is a data and media partner across search, social and programmatic advertising.

The goal of Clue Digital is to help marketers interpret and transform their data into business growth, especially through expertly managed media campaigns.

The mission of Clue Digital is to right-size data and advertising techniques so that they can solve unique challenges.

The internal perspective of the business can change when it starts growing.

The changes occur when companies shift their products or services while growing.

The primary reason to rebrand a business is to change the target audience and change the marketing strategy.

Rebranding can be strategically a good idea when as a business you are crystal clear about the changes that you want to make.

The first step of any rebrand, especially with a company where you have key stakeholders, is getting to know the vision for the business, where it is meant to go and aiming to go, where it’s been and where the customers are today.

It is important to understand what’s going on with the business and all the roadblocks they are facing.

It is also really crucial to get close with key stakeholders for a rebrand and be aligned on the goals and what the big idea is set to be for the business.

To rebrand a business is to take it in a new direction. It’s about going to the core of what you stand for, consolidating your aims and vision and then modifying your image to reflect these changes.

Here’s what goes into a rebranding project:

Changing the visual nature and perception of your brand is not without its problems.

Here are a few common challenges and ways to avoid them

Failing to Retain Current Brand Equity:

Rebranding your business is new and exciting. It can refresh your current customer base and attract new customers to your business. But, you must undergo the rebranding with careful thought toward retaining the current brand equity that you have

Failing to Understand if (or why) a Rebrand is Necessary

Outline the specific aspects of your branding that you wish to improve upon, and list the aspects of your current branding that are going well and should remain relatively unchanged. This will help you to identify the goals of the rebranding project as a whole while retaining current brand equity.

Lack of Consistency Across Branding Channels

Your rebranding effort should be complete and obvious across all channels. Too many companies set out to rebrand themselves and are unable to roll out the new branding across all advertising channels.

A Lack of Focus on Objectives

When rebranding a company, you must focus on the objectives of the entire project. What are the goals of the project? What aspects of your brand would you like to improve upon? Without clear goals, it is hard to evaluate your efforts and determine if you were successful.

You know where you want your revised brand strategy to take your organization. But to prove your rebrand achieves your desired outcomes, you need to know where you stand now to have something to measure against.

Your brand isn’t just an idea or a construct. It’s an asset that has tangible, calculable value. That’s why more companies are engaging with brand valuation experts to help them quantify exactly how much their brand is worth.

When rebranding, it’s illuminative for any company to know exactly how much their legacy brand is worth and then assess the value of the brand over time.

The brand impact can include a number of metrics such as brand awareness, understanding, affinity, and preference. To measure how your rebrand affects all elements of brand impact, you’ll need to conduct market research before your rebrand, during your rebrand, and on a regular basis after your rebrand.

As a marketer, you are always tracking leads, conversions, and sales revenue. And while it’s not always easy to correlate changes to these metrics to one thing or input, they are directionally important numbers to watch during a rebrand.

There are myriad metrics that can help you track your brand’s impact in the digital space, which you are already likely tracking. Keep a close eye on:

We would like to thank Kim Tarlo of Mint Agency and Josh Alvernia of Clue Digital.

Kim Tarlo is the Executive Creative Director and Partner at Mint, an independent creative agency that builds brands to make a positive impact on culture and the future.

She works with brands to take on the different business challenges that they face depending on their lifecycle. Kim also works with big companies who are trying to evolve to a new audience or launch new campaigns and products.

Josh Alvernia is the CEO and Co-Founder of Clue, a leading data and media partner for search, social, and programmatic advertising.

At Clue, Josh helps marketers interpret and transform their data into growth.

His team of strategists, traders, developers, data analysts, and engineers help right-size data and advertising technology to solve unique challenges and unlock businesses’ boundless potential online.