Paul, Jon, and Liz continue their conversation about the quiet role of beauty in discipleship.

"Often, we don't see and feel the reality of God's created order, because we've not cultivated an eye for beauty. And that it gives everything a kind of a frivolity. D.C Shindler describes it, 'We don't feel the weightiness or givenness of things. There's a kind of a lightness of being.' The loss of a sense of reality is just all over; it's a subtle way that the culture is impacting the church. Even the church doesn't feel the weight of beauty, the weight of goodness."

"God, who is beautiful, has created a creation that reflects his beauty and has made me to see it. As we enter into this world that he's made, we experience beauty too."

"I was leading a cohort for a group of leaders who were prayer resistant, and one of the leaders who has since become a good friend said, 'I'm only here because I'm paid to be here.' And that was an experience of beauty for me. I actually got excited. It was real. I have longed for more reality in the church because the temptation to pretense in religious things is so powerful."