Discovered Wordsmiths

Overview

Gary and Stephen discuss using tools like Pro Writing Aid and why you shouldn't only depend on those. Not everyone wants to hire an editor, but it helps you improve your writing in ways you may not understand at first.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/cZsJxNG2O4A

Transcript

Let's talk a little bit on some author stuff.

So before we get going on our topic when you're writing what do you use to write? Do you have any special software or services that you like?

[00:28:43] Gary: No, my or my, now I just use Microsoft word. I started using that what, 20, 30 years ago. And know, when it came out and it got better. Yeah yeah.

But my first books were all and my first. Four books were written on a yellow notepad. I, and I hired people to type 'em or in one case the office administrative assistant typed it, but on my other books, handwritten data charts, everything, and she was amazing typist.

[00:29:17] Stephen: Nice. Okay. And I was thinking while you were talking biking every day, have you ever looked into, or thought about text or a voice to text that you could talk and record it and something like that?

[00:29:30] Gary: Yes, I have. I've never done it. I've actually had a little phone recorder and I've done a few little clips, like clip notes on my phone, but it, it can maybe help some writers do it.

I, it wasn't my choice. I would rather. Have a spreadsheet and fill in some data, which helps remind you of where you've been how fast you went that day, where the wind was from things like that, to refresh your memory for the stories, rather than actually talking into a reporter.

Another thing on the trip, like somebody's gonna write a travel log. Our daughter and others success suggested a little camera on my bike or helmet that I could actually report. And yes, had I planned on doing a video afterwards. It would've been yeah, way more clips to go through, but I just used my cell phone and I travel along.

So some of the pictures were obviously blurry. You cut that out and that's why you maybe only have two or three seconds to put in a YouTube video. And so that was my what's neat about things today is your cell phone has a daytime reference daytime and location. And so if you. Writing and you've done a travel log like this, you have a date, you have a time that you did it, you have the location.

And so that puts you in a, you as a writer back in time, visualizing what actually happened that day. And you can explain yourself, I think, far better by having those artificial memories as I call it in my book culture.

[00:31:07] Stephen: Yeah. It is kinda scary sometimes that literally, if you just have your cell phone, how many things you can do absolutely go back to the nineties, the eighties, you didn't have, you have kids, don't get it.

You got your cell phone. I can take pictures. I can take videos. I can record my voice. I can see what day it is, where I am on GPS. I could write on it. I can communicate with people all on this little device. And some of the real practical things yeah, talking to somebody on the phone where we used to have to pay.

[00:31:38] Gary: 40 cents a minute for long distance calls, and now we call us Canada, Mexico for a monthly fee.

[00:31:46] Stephen: Yeah. Yeah. And the talk I mentioned I, I get parents occasionally pushing back that, oh, these things in technology they won't last or their fads o...

Overview

Gary used to work in the military and has patented several agricultural devices. He has also written an agricultural directory, which he considers his first book.

His book - Destination North Pole - is his 7th book. He decided to take a trip to the North Pole via pedaling and logged his journey.

Gary Wietgrefe, an inventor, military intelligence veteran, economist and lifelong South Dakotan, isnow a multiple award-winning author!Gary was the recipient of not one but two awards and finalist at the prestigious Global Book Awards,this past week. Gary’s memoir, Destination North Pole--5000 km by bicycle, won Silver in the Travel/ Adventure category. In addition, and just to show how well-rounded Gary is as a writer, he also wona Bronze award for his non-fiction release Relating to Ancient Culture in the Historical StudyCategory. Lastly, his 420-page book, Relating to Ancient Learning, was also finalist in GlobalAwards’ Education and Reference category.

His Book

https://www.amazon.com/Destination-North-Pole-000-bicycle-ebook/dp/B08BK8LDG1?&_encoding=UTF8&tag=discoveredwordsmiths-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=d0534c18ee9498a36873b5e671828d5a&camp=1789&creative=9325

Website

Favorites

https://www.amazon.com/Henry-David-Thoreau-Collection-Disobedience/dp/B096TLBFLS?&_encoding=UTF8&tag=discoveredwordsmiths-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=f9c3386dd1b8597a874f2bae2196e94f&camp=1789&creative=9325

YouTube

https://youtu.be/hI0hlYJ_izk

Transcript

So today on discovered word Smith, I wanna welcome Gary who has written a great book.

We're gonna talk about called destination north pole, Gary, how are you doing today?

[00:00:51] Gary: Doing fantastic. Thanks for calling.

[00:00:53] Stephen: Yeah, it, this is gonna be a great talk. I can't wait to hear about this book, but before we do that tell us a little bit about who you are and some of the things you like to do outside of writing.

I see you have a lot of great books. So obviously I,

[00:01:07] Gary: I, yes, I do. I like to read, obviously that's one of 'em, but I, my background is agri agriculture, but the first I'll call it seven years of my life, besides going to school, I was military intelligence. Did things like copy foreign signals and brief and debrief pilot.

So I think that gave me a lot of background to being more critical is what you hear, what you. What you learned, what maybe what you absorb, but I may have been living in agriculture. My patents are in engineering and biomass processing and things like that.

[00:01:41] Stephen: Wow. That's pretty cool. So why did you wanna start writing?

[00:01:47] Gary: Ooh I think I've been writing all the time. My, my first job outside of military was actually working in South Dakota department of agriculture. And I we didn't have an organizational directory of all the organizations we were working with 50, a hundred, whatever it was. And so I started organizing that.

So that became my first directory. Then I did a second edition and another thing we were supposed to be promoting South Dakota products, but we never had a list of products or producers. And we were involved in exporting and we didn't have the list for exporters.

Overview

Diane is not only a cozy mystery writer, she helps run a theater and has written plays. This is a topic that most authors don't know much about and she divulges quite a bit of great information about her process.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/Dwji9jsw6Nk

Transcript

So Diane, let's talk some author stuff. You've written multiple books at this point. So what are you doing different now that you, than what you used to do? What are some things you've learned that you've changed?

[00:24:11] Diane: I've taken out a lot of passive writing in by that. Things like has been, or had, or there's those words that a lot of them are just fillers.

And they slow down the action. So I find taking out like has been, or had been, and just putting was just speeds the speeds up the flow of the sentence or the paragraph, whatever you're working on. Okay.

[00:24:39] Stephen: And how did you learn that? Or who told you or how'd you, how were you told, Hey, maybe change this.

Where'd you get that from

[00:24:48] Diane: a lot of edits from editors I've 13 books in, I've dealt with a lot of editors I've done I've different writing courses there. I don't think there was any one place that, that was really a thing. It was just one of those things you of start picking. and the, like we were saying, the more you read, the more you're writing, the more you're having feedback on your work, the more you start learning all of these little tricks and all of these little things.

[00:25:16] Stephen: Yeah, absolutely. Do you use, have you used anything like Grammarly or pro writing aid?

[00:25:23] Diane: I really haven't. Okay. And. I th I'm not really sure why I haven't I've thought about it, but I just, it's just one of those things that I just haven't

[00:25:34] Stephen: done. Got it. I, I have pro writing aid and I've learned so much from that.

My editors reinforced it, oh yeah. My editor just told me that I ignored it when pro writing aid told me, maybe I should listen. My, one of my big things when I first started was. Almost every paragraph had one or two sentences that started with an I N G word. And it was just, so once I realized it and then read it, I'm like, yeah, you're right.

That doesn't sound great. And now I rarely ever even do it cuz I've retrained myself. So yeah the editors definitely when they tell you something, listen and see, cuz I. I have a couple author friends one even said, oh, I didn't get an editor because I don't think they get what I was trying to do with the story.

I'm like, wow. Okay. And I think they sold a grand total of 20 books and that includes to friends. Yeah. Definitely listen to the editors, try the software for what it's good for.

[00:26:34] Diane: Yeah, exactly. And one of the other big things, and I know it was always, actually two things that. I have a good friend.

Who's a professional editor and she always would slap my wrist for was exclamation marks cause I was the queen of exclamation marks with my very first one. And the other one is repetitive words. Ah, and just using you have to find different words and right. And different cliches make your own cliches, that kind of thing.

Like. People start reading and they're like, oh my gosh, you've said this word, like 12 times in one page. Like yeah, you have a

[00:27:13] Stephen: very limited vocabulary.

Overview

Diane writes cozy mysteries, and has found writing to be fun and can lead to success. She has written over 13 books, including a newer one with Jesse James.

She started writing as a kid and hasn't stopped. Diane lives in Ontario with her family and cat.

A prolific Canadian mystery writer, I am the mom of three kids, two cats and a step-dog as well asauthor of Wild Blue Mysteries, Gilda Wright Mysteries, Glitter Bay Mysteries, and the AudraClemmings Mysteries from Books We Love Ltd. with many more books and plays to come!

Website

https://dianebator.ca

Book

Favorites

The local Indie bookstore is called BookLore https://booklore.ca/ It was part of the setting for The Bookstore Lady, Book 1 in my Wild Blue Mystery series. Publisher is BWL Publishing.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/yzbls2iq5R0

Transcript

So Diane, welcome to discovered wordsmith. How are you doing today?

[00:02:14] Diane: I'm great. The weather's gorgeous here so far. So

[00:02:17] Stephen: is here?

[00:02:19] Diane: I am in Southern Ontario, Canada.

[00:02:21] Stephen: So nice. Yeah.

Not too far away. I'm in Ohio, down below the great lakes yep.

[00:02:27] Diane: Very simple. I love those great lake. Yeah.

[00:02:29] Stephen: Yeah. I weather can change like that. yes. I just had a friend complaining. They're like what? I woke up this morning with snow on the on the lawn and now I'm mowing it in my shirt and t-shirt and shorts and t-shirt at the same day.

Oh, great. Yeah. I went to Michigan last year and we were like standing and it's Hey, I could probably throw a baseball and hit Canada over there. There's a few spots like that. Tell us before we get started talking about your book, tell us a little bit about you and your life, what you like to do thing outside of writing.

[00:03:04] Diane: Oh, is there anything outside of writing? No, I actually, I work full time for a theater, a live stage theater, which is. A total blast. And I actually wrote my first play. So I'm waiting to see if they'll actually do a workshop with it or whatever. Besides writing I was telling you earlier, I've got two cats and a dog here, which definitely keep you on your toes.

Yeah. I have an old cat who loves to howl. So if you hear howling, it's not children, it's

[00:03:33] Stephen: just the cat. It could be Bigfoot up in Ontario could be. great. So why did you wanna start writing?

[00:03:41] Diane: I don't. I don't know that I ever really just started.

Overview

Thorsten speaks German but now writes in English. We discuss writing in two different languages and getting your work translated.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/ZqBZY8uQTS4

Transcript

[00:00:46] Stephen: All right, so let's talk some author stuff, and this will be a great conversation. I'm looking forward to it. But before we talk about our topic, what are some things. And this may be completely unique because of going from language one [00:01:00] language to another. What are some things you've learned about writing that you're doing different than you did when you first started?

[00:01:08] Thorsten: Okay. Yeah. So in the beginning there was in my school years, there was no creative writing class. There was just German language arts in the way traditionally told URI classics. Now I can tell you, but from the fifth grade on, until my end of my high school, I just had a D in German. So I was not like, obviously, oh, that's gonna be the writer.

I struggled. I wrote essays like 16 essays in a row over two years were D and I felt like my name was the D oh, force, the D I could write whatever I wanted. So I didn't learn a lot about that. I didn't read a. But I didn't analyze it. Okay. And then when I was in Victoria, that was like 1990, no, 2000, 2000 around I came [00:02:00] across like the, literally like the first time about the Odyssey, like in the way of the structure way of the hero.

Oh, are you still there? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so that was something. That I then followed up with and then read books a different way as well. Uh, and that's why I say this is something I learned in Canada. I learned that in the English language, unfortunately I wasn't exposed to that in Germany, for whatever reason.

I, I wasn't repelled to do secondary language literature. I even bought myself secondary literature, like what the students read in, in high in university. But I don't know. I, it was too academic. It was to academic and yeah. Although I went to university, I studied something else and I didn't finish. So yeah.

I got sidetracked with journalism, a few into words and culture and okay. And then life took a different path. So that is something I learned like that structural.

[00:02:59] Stephen: That's [00:03:00] the thing with English, German language classes that like you said, oh, that's a student. That's gonna be the right. It's not always the.

A plus English kid, that it's one thing to learn the stuff to take a test, and one thing to read the books and that it's a whole nother thing to write a story and they say it so often. Grammar, typos commas, that stuff can all be fixed and learned and put in there. But you have to have a, a soul for writing a story.

And if you don't have a good story, the other stuff doesn't matter. Nobody's gonna read a book and say, wow, the, the grammar was perfect and all the commas were in the right place. The story kind of sucked. You should read this, but they don't do that. Yeah, it it's good to learn that. Plus now we have so many tools to help catch all the little errors.

So. Yes. I'm telling all the kids learn your language, German, English, whatever, learn it. Do good in the classes, [00:04:00] but don't feel like, oh, I could never write because I didn't do well. Yeah, no,

[00:04:04] Thorsten: absolutely. That, and I think nowadays it's also in Germany, more common that you can show what you read privately at home.

Overview

Thorsten is originally from Germany and speaks German. When he married, he and his wife moved to Canada where he learned to speak English. While he had written some books in German, he now writes in English.

We discuss his book Grolar about a hybrid polar bear / grizzly bear that is attacking a town. We discuss his other books - one of which is a mandatory read in German high school.

His Book

https://www.amazon.com/Grolar-Half-Grizzly-Polar-Bear/dp/1980305773?&_encoding=UTF8&tag=discoveredwordsmiths-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=7941a166df7d0da54d325fb1fad776b5&camp=1789&creative=9325

Favorites

https://www.amazon.com/Loitering-Collected-Essays-Charles-DAmbrosio/dp/1935639870?&_encoding=UTF8&tag=discoveredwordsmiths-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=961086744828f0ee7cc026b03157afe8&camp=1789&creative=9325

YouTube

https://youtu.be/aegWAocAmYQ

Transcript

Hello, welcome

[00:00:43] Stephen: to episode one 12 of discovered word. This is an interesting and exciting interview today, I'm talking to Thurston Nash. We talk about his book grower, which is a polar bear grizzly bear combined. And it's a story set up north of me, uh, in [00:01:00] Canada, which is where he lives. But, uh, this is really interesting for everybody because originally thons German and speaks German, but moved to Canada with his wife and kids and learned English and writes in English.

And we talk a bit about that in his book. And, uh, it, it's just an interesting conversation because I haven't had a chance to talk to somebody about. Other languages as much as this, even though there have been quite a few on that, do speak other languages. German's the first time I believe. So it's a really great discussion.

The book sounds really interesting set in an area that is exciting, uh, up in Canada with, uh, this giant grizzly attacking people. So sit back and enjoy Thorston. Good afternoon. Welcome to discovered wordsmith. How are you today? Oh, I'm

[00:01:51] Thorsten: doing great. Thank you. Thank you. How are you doing? I'm

[00:01:54] Stephen: doing good. You mentioned it's a nice day where you are, where you live.

[00:01:58] Thorsten: Oh yeah. I'm in [00:02:00] WestBridge, Alberta, Canada. Okay. And yeah, so far we didn't have a, a lot of great days where you could be actually outside. So I would reduce it to three or four comfort, a place. So I did some garden

[00:02:14] Stephen: work today. Nice. Yeah. I live in Ohio right below lake Erie and we've. Freezing weather in the morning, like 27 when I woke up and then 67, when I took the dog out a little bit ago.

Before we talk about your book, tell us a little bit about you, what you like to do your hobbies and other things about you that you care to share.

[00:02:37] Thorsten: okay. I, I just start rambling on and you just do the timeout or something.

[00:02:42] Stephen: we like that around here.

[00:02:43] Thorsten: So obviously, uh, I'm an author. I'm an novelist. And as you probably hear in the audience, it's my second language I'm operating in right now.

I'm a published traditionally published author in Germany. And my books are read in schools between Denmark and [00:03:00] Italy.

Overview

Armin reads a chapter from his newest book in the Illyria series.

Overview

Armin has vast experience as an actor, but enjoys a playhouse also. He has studied Shakespeare and teaches students about Shakespeare. And yet, he had the desire to write.

We have a great discussion about the different activities he does along with writing and why he chose write in the first place. Authors, there is a lot of great information that you really should listen to.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/NsnCgT239Lc

Transcript

[00:00:49] Stephen: Hey. All right. Let's talk a bit about author stuff the second half, instead of just books. Still book. So your writing process, what do you [00:01:00] use to write? Do you paper, pencil? Do you use word? What do you like to

[00:01:04] Armin: use? I use my computer. I have a pro I have a Mac, so I started off with word when I started writing the novels.

And by the way, I've been writing this particular series for about 20 years. Yeah. But with my newer computer, my new Mac it's on page it's. So it's always done on a computer. I am. A go that people who write with pencil and paper, because that's really hard to switch things around if you want, oh, wait, that shouldn't happen until later.

Or I need this to happened at the end to happen earlier. It's so easy to cut and paste with a computer, but you can't do with pencil and paper. And, uh, and I like to erase. I like to go, nah, that's not any good cut. Cut it all out. So it's just easier to do that with a computer than it is with paper and.

Yes.

[00:01:50] Stephen: And I'm a computer database guy. So I discovered Scrivener, which fit my brain perfectly. And every time I wanna make major changes, I can [00:02:00] save a snapshot. So if I go, you know what, that sounded better with this. I got all. So yeah, I love it. Wasn't for computers. I probably wouldn't have written cause my handwriting's horrible.

[00:02:10] Armin: Yeah, mine too. I, when I go back and read things, I've written in my own hand, I can't read them. I don't, what did I say here? Terrible.

[00:02:19] Stephen: All right. And so before we started, we were talking a bit about various other things. And so there's multiple great things that we could discuss and we could probably be on for a lot longer than either of us have the time for, so let me ask first, you do a voiceover, you do acting you've written, they're all based around story.

Sorry, what were you gonna. I

[00:02:43] Armin: was gonna say, don't forget the teaching, but yes. And ended

[00:02:46] Stephen: yes. Ended. Yes. They're all creative. And they're based around the story. What do you find different when working with each of those? But we talked about this a bit before, but your creativity as an actor, [00:03:00] compared to your creativity as an author, what are some of the differences in both

[00:03:05] Armin: of those?

As I said before, One is a rather lonely process. That's the writing and you're sparking yourself, or you're inspiring yourself off of thoughts that you have or things that you see in front of you on the screen that you've written. And so that is a very lonely process. Acting is, as I said before, a communal process, and you're working off of different people.

There are two philosophies about acting in America. One is called the actor studio. Everybody's familiar with that. And the other one is called the neighborhood play. The actor studio.

Overview

This has to be the greatest highlight of doing this podcast. I got to talk to Armin Shimerman - he of Quark fame from Star Trek DS9. This man is definitely a national treasure.

He's a Shakespearean rhetoric scholar, teaches at USC and works with at risk youth. We discuss his book series which is an Edwardian historical novel that uses the characters from Shakespeare's Twelfth Night to weave a masterful tale.

This man is so much beyond the characters we know him from and this interview is worth the listen for the knowledge he passes along.

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On November 5, 2022, renown stage and television actor Armin Shimerman will release the final book of his historical trilogy, Illyria. Until then, readers are invited to enter the world he created – occupied by familiar and fantastic characters of Shakespeare’s Twelfth Night – with a new bundle of the first two books in the series available through Jumpmaster Press.The series opens with Betrayal of Angels. Doctor John Dee is an Elizabethan mathematician, cryptographer, mystic, and The Queen’s conjurer. He is commissioned by Her Majesty’s spymaster, Sir Francis Walsingham, to uncover treason, reveal terrorists, and unveil threats to The Crown by a young Count who governs Illyria, an island in the English Channel. Dr. Dee is accosted by a teen playwright, William, who solicits the renowned scholar’s mentorship, which results in an unlikely collaboration to sleuth out sedition on Illyria.The saga continues in book two, A Sea of Troubles. While John Dee investigates the loyalty of a Catholic nobleman on Illyria, he must overcome legal and reputational worries at home Meanwhile, his exiled young assistant William becomes more entangled with the people and the prejudices of the island, including an arranged marriage that is not to his liking. Who is to be believed and who is to be trusted in a time of shifting loyalties?“If you’ve ever wondered how a relatively unschooled William Shakespeare became the best writer of the English language, and if you’ve been intrigued by movies and books about the Elizabethan era, The Illyria Trilogy is my response to you. The era and its magic, its politics, its theater, its people, its superstitions, and its cruelty; swirl into that all the characters from Shakespeare’s Twelfth Night including the actual man who was the prototype for Prospero in The Tempest. I know the time travel will inspire and entertain," said Armin.

“... delightful book … Shimerman creates a charming …wonderful tale ...”Mike LoMonico Institute Director - Folger Shakespeare Library"What a treat to discover that such a remarkable actor would be an equally remarkable writer. “Betrayal of Angels,” … One hell of a story (and storyteller). I impatiently wait for the last two installments.”Rick Berman, Star Trek Executive Producer

 “Shimerman's fact-packed, historical adventure [is a] … must read … He had me at the first word …”Scott Carter Emmy-nominated TV producer

About Armin

A veteran of stage and screen, Armin is widely known for his portrayal of Quark on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Principal Snyder on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Other credits include notable appearances on TV shows from Hill Street Blues and The West Wing to CSI and dozens of others. His voice has been heard in many animated shows and popular game series such as Ratchet & Clank and BioShock. Armin is a renown stage actor, having performed on Broadway and stages across the country. He is also a Shakespeare scholar and teacher, theatre arts lecturer, and former Associate Artistic Director of the Ant...

Overview

Jim spent time in the army and traveling with his wife. He settled in Idaho and writes supernatural westerns.

he not only writes, but helps publish other authors. They have 15 writers that are producing stories that Jim is publishing.

Website

https://jimchristina.net

Book

https://www.amazon.com/Return-jim-Christina-ebook/dp/B01A4VX98E?&_encoding=UTF8&tag=discoveredwordsmiths-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=d780466f0df7e2fe31505e7200823249&camp=1789&creative=9325

Favorites

https://www.amazon.com/Investigator-John-Sandford-ebook/dp/B0997VH2VP?&_encoding=UTF8&tag=discoveredwordsmiths-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=4dd430daaf8659f9119fd6ae542ddfff&camp=1789&creative=9325

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074BR34B2?&_encoding=UTF8&tag=discoveredwordsmiths-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=85e17716e0930b2a3c27aaa212673e21&camp=1789&creative=9325

YouTube

https://youtu.be/Qs7MF6UkDd4

Transcript

[00:00:44] Stephen: Jim, I want to welcome you to discovered wordsmiths today. How are you doing? How's your weather out there?

[00:00:51] Jim: We are cold and snowy. And when I got up this morning, I got up about three and it was like, oh, 34 degrees. And when I looked out [00:01:00] at my phone right now, it's 26 degrees and we're getting snow. And my golden even came running back in saying, oh,

[00:01:11] Stephen: Tell everybody a little bit about where you're at. So they know what we're talking about. It's mid April, as we're talking

[00:01:17] Jim: about, I am in star, Idaho. I have 15 miles Northwest of boy. We were in, in treasure valley in ADA county. And if you're a Republican, you'll love it here. It's a stronghold. If you're a Democrat, you'll probably hate it here because it's a Republican stronghold, but it doesn't matter to me.

[00:01:36] Stephen: Before we talk about your book. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Some of the things you like to do, and a little bit about gym.

[00:01:43] Jim: I am. I'm a product of an air force family. I grew up in Delmore, California. My father was an instructor at the air force academy. He also was a fighter pilot created during world war II and not world war II and the Korean war Ana Nam patrol [00:02:00] bomber pilot in world war II.

We traveled around a little bit, spent four years in the Philippines, but we always came back to Del Mar. That was our home. And I was in the army for 10 years. I was the grunt for two and a half years of Vietnam. I was a teller copter pilot for years, that was rifted, which is reduction in force and got out in 1977 and went to work for my dad after he purchased a paint company.

But I always had this musicianship in and I became a business. Part-time cause you never give a day job. Like a writer never go. So I had abandoned Tacoma, Washington for years called sundown and, um, we traveled hither and Yon up and down the coast and did all kinds of shows. And we were acoustic vocal group, but for years and years, and I wrote most of the music for the band for the long time, I was pretty prolific song.

But I always had this character runs to the back of my head and I thought everybody wants to read the same [00:03:00] grade. And I just had a brain fart.