Divergent Conversations

Content Warning: This episode talks about suicide and may be triggering. If you're in crisis or feeling unsafe, please reach out to a crisis line or local resources. We have provided some below.

Suicidal ideation and risk are common among neurodivergent people, and talking openly about suicidality is hard, especially in a society where honesty about these thoughts is often met with fear, stigma, or misunderstanding. Navigating life with suicidal ideation can be an isolating experience, but knowing you're not alone and having resources and strategies at hand can make a life-saving difference.

In this episode, Dr. Megan Anna Neff and Patrick Casale, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss suicidality in neurodivergent communities. They share personal stories, break down the spectrum from passive ideation to crisis, discuss the shortcomings of traditional mental health support systems, and offer practical tools for safety planning, reducing risk, and finding hope.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

1. Gain a clear, relatable understanding of the difference between chronic and acute suicidal ideation, including the nuanced ways this shows up for neurodivergent people.
2. Learn practical and accessible tools: how to create a personalized safety plan, what “means reduction” really involves, and how to identify red flags in yourself or loved ones, all explained with sensitivity and real-world insight.
3. Find validation and connection from hearing honest, stigma-free conversations about suicidality from mental health professionals who genuinely get it, and discover resources, grounding strategies, and hope for weathering difficult moments.

If you or someone you care about has ever felt overwhelmed by thoughts of not wanting to exist, this episode offers education, real talk, and actionable strategies. Listen for life-affirming insight and ways to help yourself or others stay safe, seen, and supported.

Resources

1. Free Workbook by Neurodivergent Insights: neurodivergentinsights.com/free/the-neurodivergent-adapted-safety-plan
2. For a list of US and International Crises Lines (including non-carceral lines): neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergent-crises-support
3. National Mental Health Hotline: 988lifeline.org
4. International Association for Suicide Prevention: iasp.info/suicidalthoughts
5. Crisis Call Center: hopeline-nc.org
6. SeekHealing (North Carolina, USA): seekhealing.org

International

1. U.K.: Samaritans 116 123
2. Canada: 988 or Talk Suicide Canada (1-833-456-4566)
3. Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14

*Non-Carceral Lines

Some crisis lines can lead to law enforcement involvement, which can put BIPOC and Trans people at risk. Here are non-carceral lines for BIPOC and Trans communities:

1. Trans Lifeline Hotline: Call U.S. (877) 565-8860 or Canada (877) 330-6366
2. BlackLine: Call 1 (800) 604-5841 or visit callblackline.com

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🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast

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🎙️Apple

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💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

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✨ Jane:

Jane is a practice management software and EMR that helps you balance caring for clients while growing your business. Co-founded by a multidisciplinary clinic owner and a developer with an eye for design, it’s built to fit the way that you work, supporting your practice as it grows and evolves. 

Jane helps with day-to-day admin, like scheduling, documentation, and billing, so you can stay focused on the care you give. Jane was built with clients in mind, too. With online booking and secure online appointments (telehealth), your care stays accessible and easy to keep up with.

To learn more about Jane, book a demo for a one-on-one, no-pressure chat with a lovely member of their team. Or, if you’re ready to sign up, enjoy a 2-month grace period on your new account with code DCPOD.

Sign up here: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

————————————————————————————————

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

Divergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

————————————————————————————————

Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Jane

Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

The phrase "everyone’s a little bit ADHD" is coming up more and more lately—but for those who are genuinely ADHD, this can feel dismissive and invalidating. In a world speeding up with constant distractions and increasing demands, society has begun to blur the lines with what the actual difference is between experiencing ADHD traits and living with ADHD as a neurotype.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the nuance behind “everyone's a little bit ADHD.” They unpack the social myths around distraction, impulsivity, and executive functioning in today’s society, share their own stories of late ADHD diagnosis, and reflect on the dangers of minimizing real challenges faced by ADHDers. With candid conversation, they differentiate between ADHD traits and diagnosis, explore the impact of undiagnosed ADHD, and discuss why oversimplification can be harmful.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

1. Learn the difference between ADHD traits that many may experience in a fast-paced world—and the lived disability of ADHD that involves real, sometimes dangerous, daily challenges.
2. Hear personal stories from Patrick and Dr. Neff about late-in-life discovery, navigating shame and grief, and unpacking impulsivity, masking, and complicated relationships.
3. Understand why phrases like “everyone’s a little bit ADHD” can be minimizing, and discover the real-world impact of misdiagnosis, missed support, and the need for greater societal awareness.

If you’re curious about ADHD traits in non-ADHDers, or you want to better understand the real experiences of ADHDers, this episode offers insight into the “ADHD for everyone” myth.

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🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast

🎙️Spotify

🎙️Apple

🎙️YouTube Music

▶️ YouTube

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

————————————————————————————————

✨ Jane:

Jane is a practice management software and EMR that helps you balance caring for clients while growing your business. Co-founded by a multidisciplinary clinic owner and a developer with an eye for design, it’s built to fit the way that you work, supporting your practice as it grows and evolves. 

Jane helps with day-to-day admin, like scheduling, documentation, and billing, so you can stay focused on the care you give. Jane was built with clients in mind, too. With online booking and secure online appointments (telehealth), your care stays accessible and easy to keep up with.

To learn more about Jane, book a demo for a one-on-one, no-pressure chat with a lovely member of their team. Or, if you’re ready to sign up, enjoy a 2-month grace period on your new account with code DCPOD.

Sign up here: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

————————————————————————————————

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

Divergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

————————————————————————————————

Mentioned in this episode:

Jane

Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Hearing "everyone is a little bit Autistic" can feel invalidating and diminish the distinct experiences of Autistic individuals. These comments, often rooted in misunderstanding or attempted empathy, reveal how language shapes—and sometimes distorts—public understanding of Autism.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the common phrase and idea that “everyone is a little bit Autistic.” They explore why this phrase is so prevalent, the intentions and real impacts behind such statements, and the crucial differences between having “Autistic traits” and living with the full Autistic experience. You’ll hear honest stories about disclosure, invalidation, and what “context sensitivity” really means in identifying Autism—and why language matters when advocating for neurodivergent needs.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

1. Gain a deeper understanding of why the phrase “everyone is a little bit Autistic” can be harmful, and get clear language for differentiating between having Autistic traits and being Autistic.
2. Hear personal reflections from Patrick and Megan Anna on invalidation, masking, disclosure in professional and personal life, and what it’s like to receive common microaggressions—even from therapists and family members.
3. Explore what truly defines the Autistic experience, including insightful discussion of “context sensitivity” as a key factor in proper identification, and how this impacts access to support, accommodations, and authentic self-acceptance.

This conversation helps to unpack the phrase “everyone is a little Autistic,” and explores the difference between possessing “Autistic traits” and living with the unique neurological, sensory, and social realities of Autism.

————————————————————————————————

🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast

🎙️Spotify

🎙️Apple

🎙️YouTube Music

▶️ YouTube

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

————————————————————————————————

✨ Jane:

Jane is a practice management software and EMR that helps you balance caring for clients while growing your business. Co-founded by a multidisciplinary clinic owner and a developer with an eye for design, it’s built to fit the way that you work, supporting your practice as it grows and evolves. 

Jane helps with day-to-day admin, like scheduling, documentation, and billing, so you can stay focused on the care you give. Jane was built with clients in mind, too. With online booking and secure online appointments (telehealth), your care stays accessible and easy to keep up with.

To learn more about Jane, book a demo for a one-on-one, no-pressure chat with a lovely member of their team. Or, if you’re ready to sign up, enjoy a 2-month grace period on your new account with code DCPOD.

Sign up here: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

————————————————————————————————

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

Divergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

————————————————————————————————

Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Jane

Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

Struggling with being labeled "lazy" or "unmotivated" as someone with ADHD can fuel deep shame and misunderstanding. These stereotypes overlook the real challenges and complexities neurodivergent people face every day, especially when it comes to executive functioning and self-worth.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the pervasive myth that ADHD is simply about lack of motivation or laziness. Through candid discussion, they explore the realities of inconsistent motivation, the role of shame and internalized ableism, the overlap and differences between ADHD and Autism, and their own personal experiences managing daily life, self-care, and executive functioning struggles.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

1. Gain real insight into why ADHDers often internalize harmful labels and what’s actually happening neurologically and emotionally beneath the surface of "laziness" or "lack of motivation."
2. Hear honest stories from Patrick and Megan Anna about managing shame, tackling everyday executive functioning challenges, and embracing self-compassion as a neurodivergent adult.
3. Explore how living with both ADHD and Autism can shape self-understanding, coping strategies, and the ongoing negotiation between passion, energy, and daily life demands.

If you’ve ever wrestled with shame or frustration over "simple" tasks, or if you want to better understand the ADHD experience beyond stereotypes, this episode will help you rethink what motivation really looks like and why you’re not alone.

————————————————————————————————

🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast

🎙️Spotify

🎙️Apple

🎙️YouTube Music

▶️ YouTube

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

————————————————————————————————

✨ Jane:

Jane is a practice management software and EMR that helps you balance caring for clients while growing your business. Co-founded by a multidisciplinary clinic owner and a developer with an eye for design, it’s built to fit the way that you work, supporting your practice as it grows and evolves. 

Jane helps with day-to-day admin, like scheduling, documentation, and billing, so you can stay focused on the care you give. Jane was built with clients in mind, too. With online booking and secure online appointments (telehealth), your care stays accessible and easy to keep up with.

To learn more about Jane, book a demo for a one-on-one, no-pressure chat with a lovely member of their team. Or, if you’re ready to sign up, enjoy a 2-month grace period on your new account with code DCPOD.

Sign up here: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

————————————————————————————————

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

Divergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

————————————————————————————————

Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Jane

Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

Challenging the stigma that ADHD and Autism are linked to intelligence is critical for fostering self-acceptance and equity in neurodivergent communities. Myths about intellectual ability not only misunderstand neurodiversity but also perpetuate harmful stereotypes and barriers to support.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the pervasive myths about intelligence and neurodivergence—including the misconception that you “can’t be smart and have ADHD,” or that all Autistic people are either intellectually disabled or savants. Through candid discussion and personal stories, they unpack the nuanced reality that ADHD and Autism span the entire intellectual spectrum, delve into how executive functioning struggles are misinterpreted as lack of intelligence or ability, and explore the intersectional impacts of racial bias and systemic injustice for neurodivergent children in schools and society.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

1. Dispel damaging myths about intelligence, success, and neurodivergence by hearing frank conversations about how stereotypes harm both diagnosis and self-esteem for ADHDers and Autistic people.
2. Gain a deeper understanding of intersectionality—learn how race, environment, and access to support shape outcomes for neurodivergent individuals, especially in educational and legal systems.
3. Find validation and practical encouragement: whether you’ve struggled with shame, self-doubt, or dropped out of jobs or school, this episode reminds you that your intelligence and potential are not defined by neurotypical success metrics.

This episode invites you to challenge stereotypes about intelligence in relation to ADHD and Autism and embrace the full spectrum of neurodivergent experience.

————————————————————————————————

🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast

🎙️Spotify

🎙️Apple

🎙️YouTube Music

▶️ YouTube

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

————————————————————————————————

✨ Jane:

Jane is a practice management software and EMR that helps you balance caring for clients while growing your business. Co-founded by a multidisciplinary clinic owner and a developer with an eye for design, it’s built to fit the way that you work, supporting your practice as it grows and evolves. 

Jane helps with day-to-day admin, like scheduling, documentation, and billing, so you can stay focused on the care you give. Jane was built with clients in mind, too. With online booking and secure online appointments (telehealth), your care stays accessible and easy to keep up with.

To learn more about Jane, book a demo for a one-on-one, no-pressure chat with a lovely member of their team. Or, if you’re ready to sign up, enjoy a 2-month grace period on your new account with code DCPOD.

Sign up here: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

————————————————————————————————

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

Divergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

————————————————————————————————

Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Jane

Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

The language we use to describe Autistic experiences can shape not only how we see ourselves, but how our needs are understood—or overlooked—by others.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the topic of functioning labels in Autistic spaces. Through direct exploration of their own journeys, they unpack the reasons behind the prevalence of labels like “high” or “low” functioning, discuss the roots in societal values around productivity and worth, and offer thoughtful alternatives such as support-needs-based language. They also reflect on the challenges of unlearning internalized ableism, fostering compassion for different arcs of discovery, and addressing community tensions in regards to Autistic people with varying support needs.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

1. Gain clarity on why functioning labels are widely criticized and how they fail to capture the lived realities of Autistic people—especially when support needs, communication, and daily functioning can vary and intersect in complex ways.
2. Hear candid discussion about the emotional impact of language—how shame, internalized ableism, and gatekeeping in neurodivergent spaces can affect community, self-advocacy, and the willingness to seek help.
3. Discover practical, affirming alternatives to functioning labels and why evolving our language helps build more inclusive, supportive, and respectful Autistic and neurodivergent communities.

If you’ve ever wondered about the impact of functioning labels or struggled with finding the “right” language to describe your or your loved ones’ experiences, this episode will challenge, encourage, and inform you about language, identity, and what it means to create more supportive Autistic spaces.

————————————————————————————————

🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast

🎙️Spotify

🎙️Apple

🎙️YouTube Music

▶️ YouTube

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

————————————————————————————————

✨ Jane:

Jane is a practice management software and EMR that helps you balance caring for clients while growing your business. Co-founded by a multidisciplinary clinic owner and a developer with an eye for design, it’s built to fit the way that you work, supporting your practice as it grows and evolves. 

Jane helps with day-to-day admin, like scheduling, documentation, and billing, so you can stay focused on the care you give. Jane was built with clients in mind, too. With online booking and secure online appointments (telehealth), your care stays accessible and easy to keep up with.

To learn more about Jane, book a demo for a one-on-one, no-pressure chat with a lovely member of their team. Or, if you’re ready to sign up, enjoy a 2-month grace period on your new account with code DCPOD.

Sign up here: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

————————————————————————————————

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

Divergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

————————————————————————————————

Mentioned in this episode:

Jane

Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Autistic people are often stereotyped as uninterested in social connection, but the reality is far more nuanced, and longing for connection can coexist with the need for isolation or sensory protection. Understanding your own capacity and motivation for relationships isn’t just helpful, it’s often a key part of self-acceptance.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the misconception that Autistic people don’t want connection. They talk about the nuances of social motivation, energy, and capacity; share candid stories about their own friendship, relational differences, and how the neurodivergent community feels different than neurotypical interaction; and offer insight into parallel play, the importance of rhythmic attunement, and what actually makes friendship feel sustainable and authentic.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

1. Challenge myths and stereotypes about Autistic social motivation and capacity — this conversation provides context, nuance, and real-life examples from Patrick and Megan Anna’s own experiences.
2. Discover what makes neurodivergent connections uniquely rewarding (and sometimes difficult), including honest reflections on friendship maintenance, the metaphor of “cactus” versus “Venus flytrap” personalities, and the power of finding your rhythm with others.
3. Learn ways to build and sustain relationships that honor your needs, including adaptive strategies for digital, parallel, and deep connections—and why unmasking and attunement matter in making friendship work.

If you’ve ever wrestled with wanting connection but feeling like social energy is limited—or if you’re searching for friendships that honor your neurodivergent rhythms—this episode is full of empathy, insight, and practical ideas. Deepen your understanding of what authentic connection looks like and how to find it in your own life.

Additional Learning

To explore more about relationships, cross-neurotype dynamics, and navigating communication differences, check out these Neurodivergent Insights articles:

• The Double Empathy Problem: neurodivergentinsights.com/the-double-empathy-problem
• Cross-Neurotype Communication: neurodivergentinsights.com/object-based-vs-social-based-conversations
• Object-Based vs. Social-Based Conversations: neurodivergentinsights.com/object-based-vs-social-based-conversations

————————————————————————————————

🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast

🎙️Spotify

🎙️Apple

🎙️YouTube Music

▶️ YouTube

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

————————————————————————————————

✨ Jane:

Jane is a practice management software and EMR that helps you balance caring for clients while growing your business. Co-founded by a multidisciplinary clinic owner and a developer with an eye for design, it’s built to fit the way that you work, supporting your practice as it grows and evolves. 

Jane helps with day-to-day admin, like scheduling, documentation, and billing, so you can stay focused on the care you give. Jane was built with clients in mind, too. With online booking and secure online appointments (telehealth), your care stays accessible and easy to keep up with.

To learn more about Jane, book a demo for a one-on-one, no-pressure chat with a lovely member of their team. Or, if you’re ready to sign up, enjoy a 2-month grace period on your new account with code DCPOD.

Sign up here: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

————————————————————————————————

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

Divergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

————————————————————————————————

Mentioned in this episode:

Jane

Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Navigating the transition from education to the workplace is challenging for anyone, but neurodivergent individuals face unique barriers, from inaccessible application processes to the pressure of masking during interviews and employment. Understanding what actually helps—and hinders—neurodivergent people thrive at work is crucial for both job-seekers and employers who want truly inclusive environments.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the real-life hurdles and opportunities that come with entering the workforce as a neurodivergent person. They reflect on their own post-college job searches, discuss the emotional and executive functioning demands of interviews, and consider why standard hiring practices can be so exclusionary. The conversation also features guest Jan Coplan from Landmark College, who shares insights about equipping students with learning differences for meaningful employment, and highlights actionable ways employers can create neuro-inclusive workplaces.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

1. Gain honest, neurodivergent perspectives on the struggles of job applications, interviewing, and workplace social dynamics—plus hear practical strategies for advocating for your own needs at work.
2. Learn about innovative recruitment and onboarding practices from Landmark College’s Jan Coplan, and discover specific, low-cost accommodations employers can make for a genuinely accessible workplace.
3. Explore thoughtful discussions on disclosure, masking, intuition in hiring, and the emotional impact of workplace culture—all with a focus on what actually helps neurodivergent people succeed long-term.

This episode offers both real-world stories and actionable advice on transitioning from higher education to the workplace as a neurodivergent person, as well as advice for creating professional spaces where everyone can show up authentically. Learn how small shifts can make a big difference in supporting neurodiversity in education and at work.

More about Jan:

Jan Coplan, M.Ed., has more than 28 years of experience in the field of education and has been a career counselor for the past eleven years. She is currently the Senior Director of Employer Relations and Career Connections at Landmark College in Putney, Vermont, an institution exclusively for students who learn differently, including dyslexia, ADHD, or autism.

Jan is passionately committed to creating greater awareness of the advantages individuals with learning differences bring to the workplace. In the last several years, she has been a contributing author to research published in this realm. During her ten years at Landmark College, she has worked to increase the number of professional work experiences for neurodivergent individuals both locally and nationwide, including placements at Hasbro, JP Morgan Chase, Microsoft, SAP, EY, Prudential, CAI Neurodiverse Solutions, Equinix, Tufts Point 32 Health, and Dell Technologies. She played an instrumental role in Landmark College becoming the first Neurodiversity Hub (a collaborative to create employment opportunities for neurodivergent students) in the United States.

Affiliations:

• National Association of Colleges and Employers (NACE)
• Cooperative Education and Internship Association
• National Career Development Association
• Neurodiversity Hub
• Disability IN
• College Autism Network

Landmark College is seeking employers interested in hiring their students to join their upcoming Career Fair on 10/22/2025. Learn about Landmark College’s Career Support: landmark.edu/academics/career-connections

• Jan’s LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jancoplan

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🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast

🎙️Spotify

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🎙️YouTube Music

▶️ YouTube

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

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✨ Jane:

Jane is a practice management software and EMR that helps you balance caring for clients while growing your business. Co-founded by a multidisciplinary clinic owner and a developer with an eye for design, it’s built to fit the way that you work, supporting your practice as it grows and evolves. 

Jane helps with day-to-day admin, like scheduling, documentation, and billing, so you can stay focused on the care you give. Jane was built with clients in mind, too. With online booking and secure online appointments (telehealth), your care stays accessible and easy to keep up with.

To learn more about Jane, book a demo for a one-on-one, no-pressure chat with a lovely member of their team. Or, if you’re ready to sign up, enjoy a 2-month grace period on your new account with code DCPOD.

Sign up here: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

————————————————————————————————

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

Divergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

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Mentioned in this episode:

Jane

Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Discovering you're Autistic or ADHD as an adult can turn your whole sense of self upside down. Navigating the emotional aftermath—wondering, "Am I still me?"—often brings up more questions than answers, and can feel both destabilizing and deeply transformative.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the post-diagnosis identity spiral that so many neurodivergent people encounter. They break down the emotional complexities of life after self-discovery or diagnosis, exploring questions of authenticity, the role of masking, the impact of imposter syndrome, and how claiming a neurodivergent identity can shift relationships, careers, and even self-advocacy.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

1. Unpack how coming to terms with an Autism or ADHD diagnosis can impact your sense of self, relationships, career, and community—plus, get insight into navigating the uncertainty and self-doubt that often arise after discovery.
2. Learn why it’s common to experience imposter syndrome, emotional overwhelm, and a desire to "map" every experience to a diagnosis—and how to find reassurance and clarity in the midst of this complexity.
3. Hear Patrick and Megan Anna’s honest reflections on their own journeys, including how health events, career changes, and intersecting identities complicate (and enrich) the process of integrating a new neurodivergent identity.

If you’re asking yourself who you are after discovering you’re neurodivergent—or supporting someone through this kind of identity spiral—this episode offers validation, practical insights, and the reminder that you’re not alone on this journey.

————————————————————————————————

🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast

🎙️Spotify

🎙️Apple

🎙️YouTube Music

▶️ YouTube

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

————————————————————————————————

✨ Jane:

Jane is a practice management software and EMR that helps you balance caring for clients while growing your business. Co-founded by a multidisciplinary clinic owner and a developer with an eye for design, it’s built to fit the way that you work, supporting your practice as it grows and evolves. 

Jane helps with day-to-day admin, like scheduling, documentation, and billing, so you can stay focused on the care you give. Jane was built with clients in mind, too. With online booking and secure online appointments (telehealth), your care stays accessible and easy to keep up with.

To learn more about Jane, book a demo for a one-on-one, no-pressure chat with a lovely member of their team. Or, if you’re ready to sign up, enjoy a 2-month grace period on your new account with code DCPOD.

Sign up here: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

————————————————————————————————

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

Divergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

————————————————————————————————

Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Jane

Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

Discovering you’re ADHD later in life can be a profound and disorienting experience—especially when it means re-examining your relationships, identity, and even your sense of self. For many ADHD adults, the post-diagnosis journey brings unique challenges and unexpected waves of both relief and shame.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the post-discovery experience of ADHD, both independent of or including an Autism diagnosis, exploring how ADHD can impact self-perception, partnerships, and daily living. Drawing from their own stories and clinical expertise, Patrick and Megan Anna reflect on internalized ableism, common misconceptions, relationship dynamics, and the emotionally complex reality of integrating an Autistic and ADHD (AuDHD) identity.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

1. Gain a compassionate, firsthand perspective on the emotional aftermath of discovering you’re ADHD as an adult—including how shame, self-acceptance, and relief can intermingle in unexpected ways.
2. Understand the nuanced impact of ADHD traits on relationships, from struggles with contentment and impulsivity to the important role of neurotype-informed partnership accommodations.
3. Hear honest discussion about the societal framing of ADHD and Autism for AuDHDers, internalized stigma, and the lifelong process of making peace with the challenging (and sometimes conflicting) aspects of a dual-neurotype identity.

If you’re navigating your own late-in-life ADHD discovery—or supporting someone who is—this episode offers insight, validation, and real talk about what it means to live and grow as an ADHD adult.

————————————————————————————————

🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast

🎙️Spotify

🎙️Apple

🎙️YouTube Music

▶️ YouTube

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

————————————————————————————————

✨ Landmark College Success Center

Landmark College Success Center, located in San Mateo, California, provides academic support, executive function coaching, and transition-to-college skills training for neurodiverse learners, both in-person and online. A subsidiary of Landmark College (landmark.edu) – the world’s first and foremost college for neurodivergent students – the Success Center is equipped to put you or your student on the path to success. Learn more at landmark.edu/successcenter.

✨ Jane:

Jane is a practice management software and EMR that helps you balance caring for clients while growing your business. Co-founded by a multidisciplinary clinic owner and a developer with an eye for design, it’s built to fit the way that you work, supporting your practice as it grows and evolves. 

Jane helps with day-to-day admin, like scheduling, documentation, and billing, so you can stay focused on the care you give. Jane was built with clients in mind, too. With online booking and secure online appointments (telehealth), your care stays accessible and easy to keep up with.

To learn more about Jane, book a demo for a one-on-one, no-pressure chat with a lovely member of their team. Or, if you’re ready to sign up, enjoy a 2-month grace period on your new account with code DCPOD.

Sign up here: janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

————————————————————————————————

💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

Divergent Conversations Underground is a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

————————————————————————————————

Mentioned in this episode:

Jane

Jane is a clinic management software and EMR designed to be an extra set of helping hands in your health and wellness business. Available online and on any device, Jane has branded online booking, scheduling, insurance billing, customizable documentation templates and online forms, integrated payments, telehealth, and more — wrapped up in one beautiful package that even your patients/clients will love. Backed by our unlimited human support available by phone, email, and chat (even on Saturdays!), Jane is here to help you get back to the work you love. Get 2 months off new Jane subscriptions when you use code DCPOD at signup. Visit: https://janesoftware.partnerlinks.io/divergentconversations

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

Landmark College Success Center

Landmark College Success Center, located in San Mateo, California, provides academic support, executive function coaching, and transition-to-college skills training for neurodiverse learners, both in-person and online. A subsidiary of Landmark College (landmark.edu) – the world’s first and foremost college for neurodivergent students – the Success Center is equipped to put you or your student on the path to success. Learn more at landmark.edu/successcenter.