Divorce Dialogues

Every dollar spent fighting over a 50/50 schedule might be solving the wrong problem. What if the split barely matters to your kid at all?

Family psychologist and custody researcher Dr. Marsha Kline Pruett joins the show to break down what decades of research actually say about parenting time, and why the number of overnights rarely predicts how kids adjust.

Katherine and Marsha dig into why "quality time" can't be scheduled, what separates a real safety concern from a values disagreement, and how co-parenting quality (not competition) shapes both parents' relationships with their kids. Listen in for research-backed clarity you can use the next time a custody conversation gets heated.

What you'll learn:

• Why there's no research link between 50/50 time and better outcomes for kids;
• What "quality time" actually looks like from a child's perspective;
• How to build new family traditions instead of recreating old ones; and
• How to tell a genuine safety concern from a values disagreement with your co-parent

Highlights:
(00:00) Meet Dr. Marsha Kline Pruett
(02:59) Why "it depends" is the honest answer on custody
(04:16) What actually predicts how kids adjust to divorce
(05:17) Why there's no such thing as scheduled quality time
(10:25) The research behind the 50/50 custody myth
(16:12) Building new holiday traditions after divorce
(22:20) The scaffolding kids need: warmth and structure together
(24:48) How to tell a safety concern from a values disagreement
(31:13) The reframe: co-parenting isn't a competition
(32:33) What surprised her most after decades of research

About our guest, Dr. Marsha Kline Pruett
Website: https://www.marshapruett.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marsha-pruett

About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group
Katherine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/
Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/
More on her book "The Emotionally Savvy Divorce" at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

What if the same advice that helps most couples divorce well is exactly what keeps you stuck with a difficult one?

In this episode, Dr. Deborah Wilder, a licensed psychologist, divorce mediator, and Certified Narcissistic Abuse Treatment Clinician at the Center for Therapy and Mediation, breaks down how emotional abuse and coercive control change the rules of divorce, and how to tell the difference between a hard marriage and a harmful one.

Deborah walks through the warning signs your body picks up before your mind does, why compromise can backfire with a high-conflict ex, and a simple communication tool to protect your energy without escalating the fight.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• How to tell the difference between normal conflict and coercive control;
• Why gaslighting makes you question your own reality;
• The BIFF method for communicating with a difficult ex; and
• How to protect your kids without disparaging the other parent

Highlights:
(00:00) Meet Dr. Deborah Wilder
(03:19) What Actually Defines A High-Conflict Divorce
(07:43) The Body's Early Warning Signs Of Abuse
(08:37) Why Gaslighting Works
(11:09) Common Traits Of A Narcissistic Partner
(13:55) Isolation, Financial Abuse, And Control Tactics
(15:58) Why It's Never Personal
(18:42) The BIFF Method For Boundaried Communication
(22:06) Protecting Kids From Being Used As Pawns
(25:07) Redefining What Divorcing With Dignity Means

About our guest, Dr. Deborah Wilder
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborah-s-wilder-ph-d-5a016033/
Center for Therapy and Mediation: https://www.drdeborahwilder.com/

About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group

Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ 

Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/

More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: shareyourgenius.com

Divorce doesn't have to be a conversation you dread having with your kids. What if it's the beginning of showing them they can get through something hard?

Childhood Grief Specialist and Award-Winning Author Dr. Korie Leigh joins the show to break down how to talk to kids about divorce without overwhelming them or trying to make it painless.

Katherine and Korie explore how to figure out what your child already knows before you say anything, how the conversation shifts by age, and why getting it wrong the first time isn't the failure it feels like. Listen in for practical, developmentally grounded guidance you can use today.

What you'll learn:

• Why divorce is a form of loss for kids, even when it's the right decision for the family;
• How to "dose" information about divorce so kids aren't overwhelmed;
• How to adjust the conversation based on your child's age; and
• What actually gives kids a sense of safety and stability across two homes

Highlights:
(00:00) Meet Dr. Korie Leigh 
(03:11) What kids are actually grieving during divorce 
(04:46) Why parents need to process their own emotions first 
(09:26) Why "treat it like a business deal" is bad advice 
(12:15) Why you should start by asking kids what they already know 
(13:48) What "dosing" information actually means 
(15:39) How the conversation should change by a child's age 
(22:53) What gives kids the greatest sense of safety 
(26:11) One piece of advice before you have "the talk" 
(28:32) The reframe every parent needs about protecting kids from grief

About our guest, Dr. Korie Leigh

Website: korieleighphd.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/korie-leigh-phd-ccls-ft

About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group

Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ 

Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/

More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: shareyourgenius.com

Could securing a divorce attorney actually heighten complications instead of safeguarding your interests?

Certified family law specialist, mediator, and Hello Divorce founder and CEO Erin Levine explains why navigating a divorce doesn't have to mean choosing between going at it completely alone or turning everything over to a lawyer.

Erin shares the three problems she saw repeatedly in twenty years of practicing family law: unpredictable cost, unnecessary conflict, and a legal-only approach that ignores everything else changing in someone's life. She and Katherine talk through how transparency and the right mix of support, whether that's a mediator, a financial expert, or a lawyer for one piece of the process, can lower the temperature of a divorce instead of raising it.

Learn how to figure out what kind of help you actually need, and how to stay the decision-maker in your own divorce.

What you'll learn:

• Why the "lawyer up or DIY" choice is a false one, and what exists in between;
• The three biggest problems driving people away from traditional divorce;
• How transparency in the process can lower conflict between spouses; and
• Why relying on AI for major divorce decisions comes with real risk

Highlights:
(00:00) Meet Erin Levine

(05:06) The three problems with traditional divorce: cost, conflict, and complexity

(07:39) What exists between DIY and "lawyer takes over"

(08:43) Inside Hello Divorce: procedural help vs. expert support

(11:59) How a divorce navigator helps you figure out what you need

(14:35) Why silence and lack of transparency make divorce messier

(21:15) Where AI helps, and where it creates false confidence

(23:54) How to stay the decision-maker with your own lawyer

(28:57) What "protecting yourself" actually means

About our guest, Erin Levine
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinlevine
Hello Divorce: https://hellodivorce.com/

About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group

Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ 

Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/

More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: shareyourgenius.com

Most people going through divorce ask, "How do I keep the house?" But what if that's the wrong question entirely?

Katherine sits down with Jody Bruns, founder and president of the Divorce Lending Association and author of A House Divided: A Guide to Mortgage Financing and Divorce, to unpack the emotional and financial complexities of housing decisions during divorce.

Jody explains why treating the house as a purely financial asset misses the point, and why feasibility today doesn't guarantee sustainability tomorrow. She and Katherine dig into the hidden costs people overlook, from insurance and title risk to the tax trade-offs of holding onto a low mortgage rate, and why "can I qualify" is a very different question than "can I actually afford my life."

Get insights about separating the emotional pull of the family home from the numbers, and why real stability might mean letting go.

In this conversation, you'll learn:

• Why the mortgage math is only part of the equation, and what "feasible, affordable, and sustainable" really means;
• The hidden risks in insurance and title that most divorcing homeowners never see coming;
• Why refinancing hesitancy over a low interest rate can cost you more than it saves; and
• How reframing "how do I keep the house" as "how do I create a stable future" changes the decision entirely

Highlights:
(00:00) Meet Jody Bruns
(00:58) Why the house is so hard to let go of
(03:16) Why the house sits at the intersection of finances and identity
(05:01) The Colorado mom and the baseball tournament story
(07:40) Why "treat it like a business deal" is bad advice
(09:13) Home, security, and identity
(10:31) The onboarding process and building a Plan B
(13:06) The stories people tell themselves about affording the house
(20:17) Legal vs. mortgage pitfalls, and the "netting effect"
(23:35) Insurance and title risks after divorce
(25:53) What helps people make thoughtful housing decisions
(26:44) The better question to ask instead of "how do I keep the house"

About our guest, Jody Bruns
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodylbruns/
Divorce Lending Association: https://www.divorcelendingassociation.com/

About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group
Katherine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/
Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/
More on her book "The Emotionally Savvy Divorce" at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

When a child says “I don’t want to go,” the most important question may be: why?

In this episode, Michael Saini, professor and Factor-Inwentash Chair in Law and Social Work at the University of Toronto, breaks down how courts, lawyers, and parents can separate genuine safety concerns from the noise of custody conflict.

Drawing on nearly two decades of research and parenting plan evaluations, Michael explores why labels like alienation or abuse can miss the complexity of a child’s experience, why a quiet child may still be struggling, and what helps protect children through separation.

Tune in to learn why conflict, not divorce itself, is what actually harms kids, and how one competent parent can be enough to help a child come through separation okay.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• How to tell the difference between alienating behavior and a genuine safety concern;
• Why professionals shouldn't assume a quiet or agreeable child is doing fine;
• How to reframe anger toward a co-parent into identifying the real underlying worry; and
• Why "good enough" parenting, not perfect parenting, is what protects kids through divorce.

Highlights:

(00:00) Meet Michael Saini

(03:14) What splitting looks like and why kids get caught in the middle

(05:10) Why it's so hard to separate real risk from conflict fallout

(06:40) Alienation, denigration, and the umbrella of parent-child contact problems

(08:52) The research-backed assumptions professionals get wrong

(11:48) The conflict-driven custody narrative and how it takes shape

(15:18) Winnicott's "good enough" parenting and why it protects kids

(22:17) What to do when a safety concern is genuine

(24:10) The one reframe that changes how you handle co-parent anger

(25:10) Why exposure to conflict, not divorce itself, is what harms kids

About our guest, Michael Saini
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-a-saini-5693044a/
University of Toronto, Factor-Inwentash Faculty of Social Work: https://socialwork.utoronto.ca/profiles/michael-saini/

About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group
Katherine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/
Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/
More on her book "The Emotionally Savvy Divorce" at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

Grief after a divorce doesn't wait for the paperwork to catch up, and it rarely leaves the same moment the case closes.

In this episode, Oona Metz, LICSW, CGP, psychotherapist, and author of Unhitched: The Essential Divorce Guide for Women, joins Katherine to map the emotional side of divorce that the legal process never touches.

After running weekly divorce support groups for 16 years, Oona built a five-phase model that reflects how women actually move through loss, from the first heartbreak through the rollercoaster of conflicting emotions to finally reinvesting in a new life. She also speaks to where traditional divorce resources leave LGBTQ+ women out of the picture.

Tune in to understand why healing from divorce rarely moves in a straight line, and how naming what you're feeling can lead to clearer decisions and a more dignified path forward.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• The five phases of divorce grief, from heartbreak to moving on;
• Why grief resurfaces even years after a divorce is final;
• How to tell the difference between a partner's behavior and their character;
• Where traditional divorce resources fall short for LGBTQ+ women; and
• Why understanding your feelings can lead to steadier, clearer decisions

Highlights:
(00:00) Meet Oona Metz
(06:39) Phase One: Heartbreak
(10:35) Behavior versus character in a marriage
(12:18) Phase Two: The Rollercoaster
(13:54) Phase Three: Mending
(14:33) Phase Four: Letting Go
(17:06) Phase Five: Moving On
(19:11) Why divorce grief doesn't move in a straight line
(24:33) Where traditional divorce resources fail LGBTQ+ women
(28:46) Oona's advice before you start the divorce process
(29:17) Reframing grief as part of healing

About our guest, Oona Metz
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oona-metz-licsw-cgp-6a14a41b/
Website: https://www.oonametz.com/

About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group

Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ 

Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/

More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

Divorce can make even simple decisions feel harder. Fear, anger, guilt, and resentment can shape what you say, what you ask for, and what you agree to before you realize they are driving the process.

In this episode of the Emotionally Savvy Divorce series, Katherine Miller, family lawyer and mediator at Miller Law Group, tackles the belief that good divorce decisions require setting emotions aside.

Katherine shares why trying to remove emotion from divorce is neither realistic nor helpful. Instead, she explores how emotional awareness can help you respond more thoughtfully, make clearer decisions, and stay focused on the future you are trying to build.

Listen in for a grounded look at how self-awareness, not emotional suppression, leads to better decisions during divorce and a stronger foundation for the life on the other side of it.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why trying to "keep emotions out of it" during divorce is a myth
• The difference between reacting and responding, and why it matters
• A simple framework for separating your feelings from your decisions
• Three questions to ask before a difficult conversation or decision

Highlights:

(00:00) Meet Katherine Miller

(00:50) Welcome back to the Emotionally Savvy Divorce series

(01:43) Part One: The Problem — Why we think we have to ignore emotions

(03:36) How emotional and rational decision-making work together

(05:04) Part Two: The Trap — Reacting instead of responding

(06:36) Why reacting lets your ex define you instead of yourself

(08:09) Part Three: The Shift — What emotionally savvy people do differently

(09:25) Separating your feelings from your decisions

(10:49) Part Four: A real-life mediation that almost fell apart

(14:25) Today's reframe, three questions, and closing thoughts on the series

About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group

Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ 

Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/

More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

What if the thing you're fighting hardest for in your divorce isn't actually what you need?

In this episode of the Emotionally Savvy Divorce series, Katherine Miller, family lawyer, mediator, and author of The Emotionally Savvy Divorce, breaks down one of the most useful distinctions in any negotiation: positions versus interests. Most people walk into divorce already certain of what they want. Katherine explains why that certainty is often standing in the way of a better outcome.

Using real mediation stories, including a custody case built around a family's summer vacation home, Katherine shows how asking "why does this matter to me?" can turn a stalemate into a solution neither side saw coming.

Listen in for a conversation about why letting go of a position isn't losing, and how understanding your real interests opens up possibilities that arguing over demands never will.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why the thing you ask for in divorce often isn't the thing you actually need
• How to tell the difference between a position and an interest
• The four-prong test for identifying what really matters to you
• How reframing a demand can turn a stuck negotiation into a shared problem to solve

Highlights:

(00:00) Meet Katherine Miller

(02:07) Part One: We confuse positions with needs

(03:37) What an interest actually is, and why it matters

(05:16) Part Two: We become attached to one solution

(06:44) Unpacking what a position, like staying in the house, is really giving you

(08:40) Part Three: Discovering the interest beneath the position

(10:29) The four-prong test for naming your real interest

(13:11) Part Four: A real-life example, the vacation home custody case

(16:35) Episode guide questions

About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group

Katherine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/

Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/

More on her book "The Emotionally Savvy Divorce" at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

What if the thing you're fighting for in your divorce is actually keeping you stuck?

In this episode of the Emotionally Savvy Divorce series, Katherine Miller, divorce attorney, mediator, and author, unpacks why "fair" might be the most dangerous word in a divorce negotiation.

Katherine explains why two reasonable people can go through the same divorce and both walk away feeling wronged, and why chasing fairness often costs more in legal fees, time, and happiness than it's worth. Drawing on a real client story involving betrayal and a long, hard-won path to rebuilding, she shows what happens when someone finally lets go of being right in favor of moving forward.

Tune in for a mindset shift that could change how you approach every hard conversation left in your divorce.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why fairness is a personal experience, not an objective fact
• The difference between fighting to be right and fighting to be happy
• Why the legal process can't give you emotional closure
• Three questions to ask yourself before your next difficult conversation

Highlights:
(00:00) Introducing the Emotionally Savvy Divorce series

(01:35) Part one: The problem

(03:05) Why fairness is personal, not objective

(03:58) Part two: The trap

(04:35) Would you rather be right or be happy?

(05:55) The recognition trap: why both people feel wronged

(06:41) Divorce as a legal process vs. an emotional one

(09:09) Part three: From fair to workable

(11:40) Compromise isn't failure, it's negotiation

(12:52) A real story: rebuilding life after serial betrayal

(16:49) Reflection: Why fairness is a trap in Divorce

About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group
Katherine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/
Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/
More on her book "The Emotionally Savvy Divorce" at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/