Power Shift is an experiment in dialogue that puts decision-makers in aid and philanthropy and those affected by their decisions in honest, one-on-one conversations about the aid sector's inequalities.

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Michael Köhler and Nadine Saba are just two of the many people tasked with advancing the goals of the Grand Bargain – one of the most ambitious attempts at delivering humanitarian aid more effectively and efficiently.

As such, they often log into the same meetings by videoconference. And yet, Köhler, one of three ambassadors tasked with overseeing the process, and Saba, a Grand Bargain sherpa representing Global South NGOs, have never spoken one-on-one. Until now.

Over the course of seven weeks in mid-2024, Köhler and Saba met over Zoom as part of the Power Shift experiment – one leading high-level meetings from Brussels, and the other contending with real-life humanitarian crises on the ground as both a local organisation leader, and citizen.

Much has changed in the aid sector since these initial meetings, but the spirited, yet convivial, debates between Köhler and Saba have taken on a new urgency as the world reacts to the loss of major Western humanitarian funding.

"Are we relinquishing power? Are we keeping it in the hands of the donors?" Saba challenged Köhler, "And if we're keeping it in the hands of the donor, how much are they attuned to what is happening on the fields? Not much."

Listen in to the no-holds-barred conversations between Köhler and Saba as they take on a range of topics, from the yawning gap between headquarters-level decisions and realities in the field, to the dilemma of donor countries' competing obligations to constituents and affected people, to the need to treat the Grand Bargain – and other attempts at change – with a lot more urgency.

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You can find transcripts of all podcasts on our website.

Are you or anyone you know interested in participating in future Power Shift conversations? Email us with the subject line 'POWER SHIFT".