What does emotional intelligence actually look like in practice — and why do so many leaders who know about it still struggle to develop it? If you've ever wondered whether your leadership style is pulling the best out of your people or quietly pushing them toward the door, this episode is going to give you a lot to sit with. Kerri Roberts sits down with organizational development consultant and author John Thomas for one of the most research-backed, heart-forward conversations this podcast has ever had.

In this episode, you'll learn:

1. The five core practices of exemplary leadership from the Leadership Challenge framework — and why 40 years of data shows they work across every industry
2. Why 91% of success indicators for a new hire are missed in a traditional interview — and what to do instead to actually predict performance
3. What "job embeddedness" is, how fit, relationships, and sacrifices determine whether your people are enthusiastically or reluctantly staying, and what that data means for your retention strategy
4. How to use the McKinsey Influence Model's four levers to give your change initiatives eight times greater odds of success
5. The three Knowbility questions — who am I being, how am I behaving, and who am I becoming — and why they're the foundation of lasting leadership impact

About the Guest:
John Thomas is a consultant with the Organizational Development team at Washington University in St. Louis, with over 25 years of experience across higher education, government administration, nonprofits, and organizational consulting. As the former Chief People Officer for a Missouri state agency, John reduced vacancy fill time from 92 to 35 days, boosted employee motivation by 28%, and has since dedicated his career to helping leaders at every level develop the self-awareness and skills to lead well — including through his book, Knowbility.

John Thomas is a consultant with the Organizational Development team at Washington University in St. Louis, one of the nation's leading research universities. With a background spanning higher education, state government, and nonprofit leadership, John specializes in helping leaders at all levels build the self-awareness, emotional intelligence, and team-building skills that produce lasting organizational impact.

CHAPTERS:

00:00 Why John Thomas Dedicated His Career to Leadership Development
 03:10 Teams Are Teams — What Sports, Boardrooms & Classrooms Have in Common
 06:00 The 5 Practices of Exemplary Leadership (The Leadership Challenge Framework)
 12:30 How Business Owners Can Develop Leadership Skills Without a Big Budget
 17:30 The Role Environment Plays in Letting Leaders Be Their Best Self
 19:40 Top Leadership Challenges: Recruiting, Retaining & the Job Embeddedness Research
 26:00 Emotional Intelligence — What It Really Means and How to Build It
 31:00 Mentorship: The 5 Relationships Every Leader Needs
 40:00 How to Actually Get a Mentor (And What Not to Do)
 43:30 Leading Through Change and Uncertainty with the McKinsey Influence Model
 47:00 Advice for New Leaders: Know Who You Are Before You Lead Anyone Else
 51:30 Knowbility: The Book, the Hemingway Quote, and the Three Big Questions

If your people systems aren't built to support the kind of leadership you just heard about, that's the gap to close first — take the free Salt & Light HR Audit at saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit and see exactly where to start.

— Resources to keep building —

🎯 Take the free HR Audit — Score your HR systems in 5 minutes and see exactly where your gaps are.
👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🎙️ Listen to Don't Waste the Chaos — The podcast for small business owners building strong people operations.
👉 kerrimroberts.com/podcast

📖 Get The HR Easy Button — Kerri's book on building HR systems that actually work for small businesses.
👉 https://amzn.to/4cPyrFh

✉️ Subscribe to the newsletter — Weekly HR insights for founders, in your inbox every Monday.
👉 saltandlight.myflodesk.com/saltandlightadvisors

—

Need fractional HR support or want to talk through a specific challenge?
 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/contact

Ready to build foundational HR systems on your own?
 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hrfoundations

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Knowbility by John Thomas — link in show notes
• The Leadership Challenge by Jim Kouzes & Barry Posner — kouzes.com/the-leadership-challenge
• McKinsey Influence Model: search "building blocks of change McKinsey" for the free PDF
• Marshall Goldsmith AI leadership bot — marshallgoldsmith.com
• Think Again by Adam Grant
• Harvard Business Review article on quiet quitting and job embeddedness (October 2021)
• Clint Pulver, "The Undercover Millennial" — clintpulver.com
• Connect with John Thomas on LinkedIn: John Thomas 2 | on X/Twitter: @coach_TT
• Center for Creative Leadership research on the leadership training gap

📝 Full show notes + transcript: https://kerrimroberts.com/dontwastethechaos/emotionalintelligenceforleaders

Support the show

What can veterans and military spouses teach the rest of us about resilience, leadership, and building a life that actually holds up under pressure? As a Marine Corps veteran's spouse of 16 years, Kerri Roberts has had a front-row seat to lessons most civilians never get — and in this special Veterans Day episode, she's sharing seven of them. Whether you have military ties or none at all, these takeaways will change the way you think about adaptability, community, and what real sacrifice looks like in daily life.

In this episode, you'll learn:

1. Why military-trained adaptability is a genuine leadership superpower — and how civilians can develop it before a crisis forces them to
2. What "community as a lifeline" really means, and how military families build and maintain deep bonds across distance and time
3. How resourcefulness in the face of scarcity produces a level of practical creativity and resilience that most civilians never develop
4. What sacrifice actually looks like beyond the buzzword — and the long-term mindset it builds in those who live it
5. Why planning for the unexpected means having Plans B, C, and D ready — not just one backup — and how to apply that thinking to your business

CHAPTERS:

00:00 A Different Kind of Episode — Why This One Matters
 01:30 Lesson 1: Adaptability Is a Superpower
 03:15 Lesson 2: Community Is a Lifeline, Not a Social Circle
 05:20 Lesson 3: Resourcefulness in the Face of Scarcity
 07:00 Lesson 4: Sacrifice Is More Than a Buzzword
 10:15 Lesson 5: The Power of Silent Strength
 11:25 Lesson 6: Planning for the Unexpected
 12:30 Lesson 7: Cherish the Little Moments
 17:25 What Civilians and Business Leaders Can Do With This

The same qualities that make military service members exceptional — adaptability, community, resourcefulness, and resilience — are the ones that make businesses thrive too. If you want to know how your people operations stack up, start with the free Salt & Light HR Audit at saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit.

— Resources to keep building —

🎯 Take the free HR Audit — Score your HR systems in 5 minutes and see exactly where your gaps are.
👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🎙️ Listen to Don't Waste the Chaos — The podcast for small business owners building strong people operations.
👉 kerrimroberts.com/podcast

📖 Get The HR Easy Button — Kerri's book on building HR systems that actually work for small businesses.
👉 https://amzn.to/4cPyrFh

✉️ Subscribe to the newsletter — Weekly HR insights for founders, in your inbox every Monday.
👉 saltandlight.myflodesk.com/saltandlightadvisors

—

Need fractional HR support or want to talk through a specific challenge?
 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/contact

Ready to build foundational HR systems on your own?
 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hrfoundations

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Episode referenced: Kerri's interview with her husband on sales and empathy — find it linked in the show notes

📝 Full show notes + transcript: https://kerrimroberts.com/dontwastethechaos/militaryspouse

Support the show

Are you running on coffee fumes and skipped lunches, wondering why you can't focus or why your energy crashes by 2pm? For most busy business owners, nutrition is the last thing on the priority list — but it might be the one thing quietly sabotaging your productivity, your mood, and your long-term health. In this episode of Don't Waste the Chaos, Kerri Roberts sits down with registered dietitian Hannah Holzum to talk about what fueling your body actually looks like for entrepreneurs and the people they lead.

In this episode, you'll learn:

1. The three most common nutrition mistakes busy professionals make — and the simple fixes that don't require a complete lifestyle overhaul
2. How dehydration (even just 2% dehydration) visibly impacts brain fog, concentration, and workplace productivity
3. What "hybrid food prepping" looks like in a real household and why it beats rigid meal prep every time
4. How nutrition and caffeine intake directly affect anxiety, stress, and burnout — and what to do instead
5. Practical ways business owners and team leaders can promote a healthier workplace culture, even on a tight budget and with remote employees

About the Guest:
Hannah Holzum is a registered dietitian and the founder of Wholesome Nutrition Co., based in Columbia, Missouri. After years working in hospital and clinical settings, Hannah launched her own nutrition coaching business to help busy moms, business owners, and professionals build lasting healthy habits — without the yo-yo dieting cycle.

CHAPTERS:

00:00 Why Nutrition Gets Sidelined in Business
 02:00 Hannah's Journey from Hospital Dietitian to Entrepreneur
 07:30 How Food Fuels Productivity and Brain Health
 12:35 The 3 Biggest Nutrition Mistakes Busy Professionals Make
 15:30 How Many Steps a Day Do You Actually Need?
 19:05 The Caffeine and Anxiety Connection
 26:30 How Leaders Can Promote Nutrition at Work
 28:55 Realistic Meal Prep for Busy People
 35:10 Using Nutrition to Manage Stress
 39:20 How Nutrition Prevents Burnout
 42:10 Encouraging Your Team to Eat Better
 46:15 Where to Start When Nutrition Feels Overwhelming

Ready to build a stronger, healthier team culture from the inside out? Start with your people operations foundation — take the free Salt & Light HR Audit at saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit to find the gaps before they cost you.

— Resources to keep building —

🎯 Take the free HR Audit — Score your HR systems in 5 minutes and see exactly where your gaps are.
👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🎙️ Listen to Don't Waste the Chaos — The podcast for small business owners building strong people operations.
👉 kerrimroberts.com/podcast

📖 Get The HR Easy Button — Kerri's book on building HR systems that actually work for small businesses.
👉 https://amzn.to/4cPyrFh

✉️ Subscribe to the newsletter — Weekly HR insights for founders, in your inbox every Monday.
👉 saltandlight.myflodesk.com/saltandlightadvisors

—

Need fractional HR support or want to talk through a specific challenge?
 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/contact

Ready to build foundational HR systems on your own?
 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hrfoundations

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Wholesome Nutrition Co. website: wholesomenutritionco.com
• Hannah on Instagram: @wholesomenutritionco
• Hannah's podcast: Wholesome Nutrition with Hannah — available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major platforms
• Meal planning app: use code KARI5 for $5 off your first month (link via Hannah's Instagram)
• Koda's Fit Kitchen (Columbia, MO area meal prep) — find Hannah's partner code on her Instagram

📝 Full show notes + transcript: https://kerrimroberts.com/dontwastethechaos/nutritionandproductivity

Support the show

Year-end payroll is one of those things every business owner knows is coming — and most still scramble through it at the last minute. Between W-2s, tax filings, benefits reviews, and compliance updates, there are a lot of moving pieces, and getting any one of them wrong can mean penalties, frustrated employees, or a mess you're untangling well into the new year. This episode is the practical checklist you need to close out the year cleanly and walk into January ready.

In this episode, you'll learn:

1. Every form and report you need for year-end payroll — W-2s and when to distribute them (don't wait until the last minute — your employees are waiting on refunds), W-3s, 1099-MISC for any contractor paid more than $600, Form 940 and 941 for federal unemployment and quarterly payroll taxes, state payroll reports, your payroll reconciliation report, and the payroll register — plus why employee and contractor classification needs to be audited before these go out
2. The four-part year-end payroll checklist — employee data and records (verify contact info, tax withholdings, benefits enrollments, and emergency contacts before November if possible), compliance and legal requirements (confirm local labor law compliance, update tax information including the January 2025 exempt salary threshold change, and conduct a records audit), year-end reporting (generate W-2s early, file annual payroll tax returns on time, reconcile earnings and tax reporting), and preparing for the new year (update payroll software with new tax rates, evaluate employee benefits for the upcoming year, communicate changes transparently with employees)
3. What to actually do about overtime right now — why you should be looking at overtime data every single payroll (not just at year-end), why your handbook needs a policy requiring supervisor approval before overtime is worked, and how to use overtime trend data to make educated workforce planning decisions — including when it's time to bring in a part-time employee or contractor instead of burning out your current team
4. Why lifestyle spending accounts are worth your attention as a small business owner — how Salt and Light Advisors provides $350 per employee annually through a lifestyle spending account that employees can use for anything from individual health plans and dental to therapy, fertility treatments, teen coaching, gym memberships, and wellness tools — and why this approach can be more practical and attractive for small businesses than a traditional group health plan
5. Why year-end payroll is also a people operations moment — why more than 50% of employees report that financial stress changes how they operate at work, why handing an employee a W-2 and nothing else is a missed opportunity, and how offering financial literacy resources (Dave Ramsey materials, LinkedIn Learning, book clubs, referrals to local financial institutions) can meaningfully impact retention and morale heading into the new year

Chapter Markers:

• 00:00 — Why Year-End Payroll Matters and Why HR Pros Need to Care
• 01:51 — Year-End Payroll Forms Overview: W-2, W-3, 1099, 940, 941 and More
• 04:33 — Checklist Part 1: Employee Data and Records
• 06:12 — Reviewing Overtime Hours and Building an Overtime Policy
• 07:31 — Assessing Benefits and Deductions (And What Your Insurance Broker Should Be Doing)
• 09:15 — Checklist Part 2: Compliance and Legal Requirements
• 10:06 — Updating Payroll Tax Information (Including January 2025 Salary Threshold Change)
• 10:51 — Conducting a Records Audit Before Year-End
• 11:53 — Checklist Part 3: Year-End Reporting
• 13:13 — Filing Annual Payroll Tax Returns and Reconciling Earnings
• 16:01 — Checklist Part 4: Preparing for the New Year
• 16:25 — Updating Payroll Software for the New Year
• 17:29 — Setting Employee Benefits for the New Year (Lifestyle Spending Accounts)
• 20:34 — Communicating With Employees: Financial Stress, Resources & Going Beyond the W-2

If you're closing out the year and realizing your HR systems — payroll, documentation, compliance, benefits — aren't as buttoned up as they should be, the free HR Audit is the fastest way to see exactly what needs attention: saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🔍 Ready to find out what's really going on inside your business? Take the free Salt & Light HR Audit at saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit. In about 10 minutes, you'll get a clear picture of where your people operations stand — and exactly where to focus next. No fluff, no sales pitch. Just clarity.

Resources to keep building:

🎯 Take the free HR Audit — Score your HR systems in 5 minutes and see exactly where your gaps are. 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🎙️ Listen to Don't Waste the Chaos — The podcast for small business owners building strong people operations. 👉 kerrimroberts.com/podcast

📖 Get The HR Easy Button — Kerri's book on building HR systems that actually work for small businesses. 👉 https://amzn.to/4cPyrFh

✉️ Subscribe to the newsletter — Weekly HR insights for founders, in your inbox every Monday. 👉 saltandlight.myflodesk.com/saltandlightadvisors

Need fractional HR support or want help with year-end compliance? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/contact

Ready to build foundational HR systems on your own? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hrfoundations

Connect with Kerri: 📷 Instagram: instagram.com/kerrimroberts 💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kerrimroberts 🐎 Hippo Creek Farm on Instagram: instagram.com/hippocreekfarm

Episode-specific resources mentioned:

• Salt and Light Advisors lifestyle spending account partnership — saltandlightadvisors.com/contact
• Salt and Light Advisors insurance broker referrals — saltandlightadvisors.com/contact
• Oura Ring ($40 off code — contact Kerri directly)
• Dave Ramsey financial literacy resources — ramseysolutions.com
• U.S. Department of Labor (FLSA exempt salary threshold update January 2025) — dol.gov
• LinkedIn Learning — for financial literacy and employee development courses

Full show notes + transcript: https://kerrimroberts.com/dontwastethechaos/yearendpayrollwrapup

Support the show

Most small business owners spend their marketing budget on tactics — the website, the social media, the ads — before they've done the foundational work of figuring out who they actually are and who they're actually for. And according to Kristen Graham Brown, that is the single most expensive mistake a business can make. Kristen has spent 14 years building Hoot Design Company into a culture-driven branding agency, and this conversation will change how you think about what brand actually is and why it's not optional.

In this episode, you'll learn:

1. The foundational brand philosophy that separates businesses that scale from those that stall — "brand is the being and marketing is the doing," why you should never run tactics until you've done the foundational work of defining your vision, purpose, values, positioning, and personality, and why skipping this step means every marketing dollar you spend works significantly less effectively
2. How the Brand Being process works in practice — the three-circle framework of heart (who you are: vision, purpose, values), positioning (who you're for and your point of difference), and personality (what you look and sound like) — and why personality should always be the last thing you define, not the first
3. Why you must commit to one specific brand advocate — why "we're for everybody" is a budget-destroying position that even Walmart with $1 billion a year in advertising struggles to pull off, how to build a granular story around one target person (what they drive, what they read, what keeps them up at night), and why laser focus on one person still attracts others who are aligned
4. Why brand is a culture and HR problem, not just a marketing one — why in founder-led companies everything runs through the owner as the "brand barometer" until the values are put in writing, why language gives intention to intuition (from Unreasonable Hospitality), and how this work directly impacts your ability to recruit the right people, communicate what makes you different, and scale without being the czar of every decision
5. How AI becomes exponentially more powerful when it has a strong brand foundation — why uploading your brand book to an AI platform like Claude transforms what a junior marketing team member or a lean team can produce, why AI without brand identity produces word salad, and why Kristen believes that having a clear brand being makes an internal copywriter role largely obsolete for most business service providers

About the guest: Kristen Graham Brown is the founder and CEO of Hoot Design Company (hootdesigncompany.com), a culture-driven branding agency based in Columbia, Missouri that has been reshaping how brands see themselves and how they are seen for over 14 years. Kristen specializes in working with founder-led businesses between $2M and $10M in revenue, helping them define their brand heart, positioning, and personality so that their marketing actually works and their culture delivers on their brand promise.

Chapter Markers:

• 00:00 — Kristen's Journey: From Chicago Ad Agency to Founding Hoot Design Company
• 03:30 — The 2015 Pivot: From Boutique Papery to Full Brand Agency
• 06:09 — Did the Team Stay Through the Pivot? What the Transition Looked Like
• 07:47 — The Core Branding Philosophy: Brand Is the Being, Marketing Is the Doing
• 10:06 — The Brand Being Framework: Heart, Positioning, and Personality
• 10:54 — On-Brand Behavior: Why Founders Are the Brand Barometer and How to Change That
• 14:24 — How Branding Connects to HR, Culture, and Internal Communications
• 14:48 — How AI Is Amplified When You Have a Strong Brand Foundation
• 20:39 — How Hoot Approaches a New Client: The Four-Hour Discovery Process
• 23:07 — The Brand Advocate: Why You Must Commit to One Specific Target Person
• 28:06 — Real Brand Transformation Story: Scout & Nimble and Bodine White
• 30:46 — Real Brand Transformation Story: Windsor Street Montessori
• 33:07 — The Most Common Branding Mistakes Small Businesses Make
• 37:10 — Measuring the Success of a Branding Campaign
• 42:24 — How to Stay Up on Branding Trends (Parliament Newsletter and More)

Strong brands don't just attract better clients — they attract better employees. If you're building a business that people actually want to work for and stay at, the free HR Audit will show you whether your people operations can support the culture your brand is promising: saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🔍 Ready to find out what's really going on inside your business? Take the free Salt & Light HR Audit at saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit. In about 10 minutes, you'll get a clear picture of where your people operations stand — and exactly where to focus next. No fluff, no sales pitch. Just clarity.

Resources to keep building:

🎯 Take the free HR Audit — Score your HR systems in 5 minutes and see exactly where your gaps are. 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🎙️ Listen to Don't Waste the Chaos — The podcast for small business owners building strong people operations. 👉 kerrimroberts.com/podcast

📖 Get The HR Easy Button — Kerri's book on building HR systems that actually work for small businesses. 👉 https://amzn.to/4cPyrFh

✉️ Subscribe to the newsletter — Weekly HR insights for founders, in your inbox every Monday. 👉 saltandlight.myflodesk.com/saltandlightadvisors

Need fractional HR support or want to talk through a specific challenge? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/contact

Ready to build foundational HR systems on your own? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hrfoundations

Connect with Kerri: 📷 Instagram: instagram.com/kerrimroberts 💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kerrimroberts 🐎 Hippo Creek Farm on Instagram: instagram.com/hippocreekfarm

Episode-specific resources mentioned:

• Hoot Design Company — hootdesigncompany.com
• Hoot Brand Being Workbook (free download) — available at hootdesigncompany.com
• Parliament Newsletter — Hoot's weekly branding newsletter, sign up at hootdesigncompany.com
• Kristen Graham Brown on Instagram — @ktgb and @hootdesigncompany
• Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara — referenced: "language gives intention to intuition"
• Scout & Nimble and Bodine White — brand transformation success story referenced
• Windsor Street Montessori — brand transformation success story referenced
• ComoGives — campaign referenced (raised $2M in 2023)
• Claude (Anthropic) — AI platform Kristen specifically recommends for uploading brand books

Full show notes + transcript: kerrimroberts.com/dontwastethechaos/episode-41-top-branding-tips-from-a-culture-driven-agency-ceo

Support the show

HR compliance is one of those things most small business owners know they should be on top of — and quietly hope they never have to deal with until it's too late. The reality is that legal exposure from employment law violations doesn't announce itself in advance. It shows up as a discrimination complaint, a misclassification audit, a harassment lawsuit, or an OSHA violation — and by then, you're already paying attorneys. This episode is the practical, no-fluff compliance checklist every business owner needs, whether you have an HR person or not.

In this episode, you'll learn:

1. Seven best practices for HR legal compliance — staying updated on employment laws (FLSA, FMLA, OSHA, anti-discrimination regulations), creating a comprehensive and customized employee handbook reviewed at least annually, implementing consistent documentation and record-keeping systems, conducting regular compliance training (including why skipping annual sexual harassment training can expose the employer — not just the manager — to liability), following EEO-compliant hiring practices, auditing wage and hour classifications, and investigating employee complaints promptly with proper documentation
2. Why your employee handbook template is probably off base — how to use ChatGPT or Claude to generate a starting point that's actually relevant to your industry, state, and employee count, why you need to read it line by line before distributing it, and what specific policies need to be customized before it goes anywhere near an employee signature
3. What happens when employee classification goes wrong — how misclassifying a salaried exempt employee who should be non-exempt can result in back-pay penalties calculated by the employee's best guess of their overtime hours, and why most organizations are getting this wrong and don't know it
4. The real-world documentation example every business owner needs to hear — how a rejected candidate's discrimination complaint required pulling every single resume, interview record, and demographic data point from an entire hiring cycle, and why if you don't have a systematic approach to storing that documentation you will be building it under legal pressure instead of from a position of strength
5. Eight practical tips for business owners without a full-time HR person — outsourcing to a fractional HR consultant, using HR payroll software automation for compliance reminders, subscribing to legal update resources (including Salt and Light's Monday newsletter), building clear policies, maintaining documentation, implementing LMS-based compliance training, scheduling regular HR audits, and maintaining a genuine open-door communication culture

Chapter Markers:

• 00:00 — Why HR Compliance Is Non-Negotiable (Even If You're Small)
• 01:18 — Best Practice 1: Stay Updated on Employment Laws (FLSA, FMLA, OSHA, EEO)
• 02:10 — Best Practice 2: Create a Comprehensive, Customized Employee Handbook
• 05:18 — Best Practice 3: Consistent Documentation and Record Keeping
• 07:24 — Best Practice 4: Regular Employee Compliance Training
• 08:50 — Best Practice 5: Fair Recruitment and EEO-Compliant Hiring Practices
• 10:20 — Best Practice 6: Wage and Hour Compliance — Classification Audits
• 11:55 — Best Practice 7: Investigate and Address Employee Complaints Promptly
• 12:54 — Additional Tips for Business Owners Without a Full-Time HR Person
• 13:27 — Tip 1: Outsource Your HR Expertise (Fractional HR)
• 14:19 — Tip 2: Use HR Software for Compliance Automation
• 14:44 — Tips 3–8: Legal Updates, Clear Policies, Documentation, Training & Audits

The free HR Audit was built specifically to help you identify where your compliance gaps actually are before they become legal problems — it's the logical first step before any of the work in this episode: saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🔍 Ready to find out what's really going on inside your business? Take the free Salt & Light HR Audit at saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit. In about 10 minutes, you'll get a clear picture of where your people operations stand — and exactly where to focus next. No fluff, no sales pitch. Just clarity.

Resources to keep building:

🎯 Take the free HR Audit — Score your HR systems in 5 minutes and see exactly where your gaps are. 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🎙️ Listen to Don't Waste the Chaos — The podcast for small business owners building strong people operations. 👉 kerrimroberts.com/podcast

📖 Get The HR Easy Button — Kerri's book on building HR systems that actually work for small businesses. 👉 https://amzn.to/4cPyrFh

✉️ Subscribe to the newsletter — Weekly HR insights, legal updates, and people operations insights every Monday morning. 👉 saltandlight.myflodesk.com/saltandlightadvisors

Need fractional HR support or a compliance audit for your organization? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/contact

Ready to build foundational HR systems on your own? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hrfoundations

Connect with Kerri: 📷 Instagram: instagram.com/kerrimroberts 💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kerrimroberts 🐎 Hippo Creek Farm on Instagram: instagram.com/hippocreekfarm

Episode-specific resources mentioned:

• U.S. Department of Labor — dol.gov (reference for FLSA, FMLA, and wage and hour compliance)
• Salt and Light Advisors hiring guides (structured, tiered interview guides by role level) — saltandlightadvisors.com/contact
• Salt and Light Advisors compliance training course — saltandlightadvisors.com/hrfoundations
• Salt and Light weekly Monday newsletter (HR legal updates) — saltandlight.myflodesk.com/saltandlightadvisors
• ChatGPT / OpenAI / Claude — for generating a customized handbook starting point

Full show notes + transcript: kerrimroberts.com/dontwastethechaos/40

Support the show

Most companies think culture is the snacks in the break room, the company t-shirt, or the fun Friday happy hour — but all of that is just icing, and you can't put icing on nothing. Brandy Spurling has spent years helping organizations understand what culture actually is, how to assess it honestly, and how to build it in a way that sticks. This conversation is one of the most practically useful episodes on organizational culture I've recorded, and yes, it's also genuinely fun.

In this episode, you'll learn:

1. The three feelings that define a strong organizational culture — psychological safety (feeling safe to share ideas, give feedback, and speak up), being seen (having your strengths recognized and your growth path understood), and being connected (to people, mission, vision, and the work) — and why a culture that's missing any one of these three is fundamentally transactional no matter how good the snacks are
2. Brandy's three-circle Venn diagram framework for assessing culture — what we say matters (mission and values), the systems and processes that reinforce what we say matters, and the accountability structures that ensure people are actually held to it — and how to use this to quickly see what's missing and where the gap is between the culture you say you have and the one you actually have
3. Why leadership development is culture development — why the culture conversation shouldn't be owned by the fun committee or the event planners, why leaders are the critical middle link between what the company says it values and what employees actually experience, and why promoting your best producer into a leadership role without asking whether they can actually lead people is one of the most expensive mistakes you can make
4. Why surveys are smoke detectors, not fire investigators — what an employee satisfaction survey can tell you (that a fire exists) versus what it cannot tell you (where it started), why teaching people how to give and receive feedback is the only way to get real-time cultural intelligence rather than waiting for a once-a-year survey, and what it means when your employees only bring you complaints about toilet paper and the trash schedule
5. How to make cultural change actually stick — the feedback training rollout example where Brandy trained leaders first, gave them homework, checked back in a month later, then trained the full company, and gave leaders the conversation tools to keep it going — and why a keynote that makes people laugh without leaving a framework for the leaders to carry forward is just a really nice afternoon

About the guest: Brandy Spurling is the founder and keynote speaker at Sage Culture Co. (sagecultureco.com), a company dedicated to transforming employee culture and team development for organizations of all sizes. With a master's degree in strategic leadership, a background in theater and stand-up comedy, and four years of in-house learning and development work, Brandy specializes in intergenerational workplace dynamics, psychological safety, and making the culture conversation both engaging and actionable.

Chapter Markers:

• 00:00 — Brandy's Journey: From Walmart, Higher Ed & Finance to Sage Culture Co.
• 05:29 — How Sage Culture Co. Works With Clients: Keynotes, Training & Ongoing Partnerships
• 09:13 — What Defines a Strong Organizational Culture: Safe, Seen, and Connected
• 12:29 — How to Assess Employee Strengths Without Needing a Formal Tool
• 14:37 — What Leaders Bring Into the Room That They Haven't Dealt With Yet
• 18:05 — The Three-Circle Venn Diagram: How Brandy Assesses Culture in Any Organization
• 21:03 — Favorite Keynote Topic: Why Generational Differences Is the Hardest and Most Rewarding
• 24:27 — Millennials, Gen Z & the Cyclical Nature of Generational Workplace Challenges
• 32:14 — The Biggest Culture Challenge in Client Work: Middle Management
• 35:03 — What It Costs When Middle Managers Are Asked to Lead and Do at 100% Each
• 37:02 — Leadership's Role in Culture: They're the Middle Link, Not the Builders
• 39:09 — Leadership Development IS Culture Development (The Cupcake Analogy)
• 43:54 — How Brandy Makes Cultural Change Stick: The Feedback Training Example
• 45:13 — The Role of Employee Feedback: Surveys Are Smoke Detectors, Not Fire Investigators
• 48:03 — Where to Start If You're Ready to Get Serious About Culture

If you're ready to get intentional about culture but want to know whether your HR foundation actually supports the safe, seen, and connected experience Brandy describes, the free HR Audit will show you what's in place and what needs to be built: saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🔍 Ready to find out what's really going on inside your business? Take the free Salt & Light HR Audit at saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit. In about 10 minutes, you'll get a clear picture of where your people operations stand — and exactly where to focus next. No fluff, no sales pitch. Just clarity.

Resources to keep building:

🎯 Take the free HR Audit — Score your HR systems in 5 minutes and see exactly where your gaps are. 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🎙️ Listen to Don't Waste the Chaos — The podcast for small business owners building strong people operations. 👉 kerrimroberts.com/podcast

📖 Get The HR Easy Button — Kerri's book on building HR systems that actually work for small businesses. 👉 https://amzn.to/4cPyrFh

✉️ Subscribe to the newsletter — Weekly HR insights for founders, in your inbox every Monday. 👉 saltandlight.myflodesk.com/saltandlightadvisors

Need fractional HR support or want to talk through a specific challenge? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/contact

Ready to build foundational HR systems on your own? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hrfoundations

Connect with Kerri: 📷 Instagram: instagram.com/kerrimroberts 💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kerrimroberts 🐎 Hippo Creek Farm on Instagram: instagram.com/hippocreekfarm

Episode-specific resources mentioned:

• Sage Culture Co. — sagecultureco.com
• Brandy Spurling on LinkedIn and Instagram — @SageCultureCo
• Reboot by Jerry Colona — referenced as a leadership self-reflection resource
• Kelly Howe — mutual connection, EFT/tapping practitioner referenced by both guests
• Predictive Index — behavioral assessment tool referenced

Full show notes + transcript: kerrimroberts.com/dontwastethechaos/39

Support the show

AI and automation are reshaping human resources faster than any shift Kerri has seen in over 20 years in the field — and if your HR processes are still manual, you are already behind. This isn't about replacing HR professionals or business leaders. It's about getting the administrative and transactional work off their plates so they can finally focus on the strategic decisions that actually move the business forward. This episode is the practical starting point you need.

In this episode, you'll learn:

1. The four core reasons why HR can no longer ignore AI and automation — efficiency is now the baseline standard (not the goal), AI-driven analytics enable genuinely data-driven people decisions instead of gut feelings, employees now expect a seamless modern experience from their employer that matches how the company treats its clients, and AI tools can help reduce hiring bias by focusing purely on qualifications rather than demographic data
2. How to actually start implementing AI in HR without getting paralyzed — why you should pick one or two areas and go deep rather than trying to overhaul everything at once, why your existing HR payroll software almost certainly has AI and automation features you're already paying for and not using, and why HR staff or office managers who are not tech-savvy are a genuine organizational liability that needs to be addressed
3. Five specific, quick-impact areas where AI can be implemented right now — recruitment and candidate screening (including ATS modules inside your current HRIS, HireVue, Ideal, and Predictive Index), onboarding and employee self-service (these tools have existed since at least 2008 — if you're not using them it's past time), performance management with tools like Lattice or BetterWorks, AI-powered employee engagement surveys analyzed through tools like Qualtrics, Tiny Pulse, SurveyMonkey, or even ChatGPT, and personalized learning and development through platforms like Degreed or Coursera for Business
4. Why your internal HR tech needs to match the story you're telling externally — the insurance industry example of how walking employees through archaic onboarding while claiming to be a tech-forward company creates a credibility gap with your own staff and gives them more reason to push back on every other change initiative
5. What to do if you don't have the internal capacity to implement this — why the first step is an honest audit of what platforms you're already on and what features you're not using, and when it makes sense to bring in a consultant versus trying to DIY it

Chapter Markers:

• 00:00 — Why HR Can't Afford to Ignore AI and Automation Anymore
• 01:37 — Reason 1: Efficiency Is Now the Standard, Not the Goal
• 03:19 — Reason 2: Data-Driven Decisions Are Shaping the Future of HR
• 04:09 — Reason 3: Employees Expect a Modern, Seamless Experience
• 05:31 — Reason 4: AI Can Reduce Bias in Hiring and Strengthen DEI
• 06:37 — How to Start Embracing AI: Start Small, Train Your Team, Choose the Right Tools
• 08:47 — Five Areas to Implement AI First: Recruitment and Candidate Screening
• 11:24 — Area 2: Onboarding and Employee Self-Service (This Should Already Be Done)
• 12:51 — Area 3: Performance Management Tools and AI-Generated IDPs
• 15:02 — Area 4: Employee Engagement Surveys With AI Analysis
• 16:04 — Area 5: Learning and Development Personalization
• 17:08 — Your Internal HR Tech Must Match Your External Brand Promise
• 19:03 — What to Do If You Don't Have the Capacity: Audits, Consultants & Next Steps

If you're not sure where your HR tech and people operations actually stand right now, the free HR Audit is the fastest way to find out — and it's a natural first step before you decide what to automate: saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🔍 Ready to find out what's really going on inside your business? Take the free Salt & Light HR Audit at saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit. In about 10 minutes, you'll get a clear picture of where your people operations stand — and exactly where to focus next. No fluff, no sales pitch. Just clarity.

Resources to keep building:

🎯 Take the free HR Audit — Score your HR systems in 5 minutes and see exactly where your gaps are. 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🎙️ Listen to Don't Waste the Chaos — The podcast for small business owners building strong people operations. 👉 kerrimroberts.com/podcast

📖 Get The HR Easy Button — Kerri's book on building HR systems that actually work for small businesses. 👉 https://amzn.to/4cPyrFh

✉️ Subscribe to the newsletter — Weekly HR insights for founders, in your inbox every Monday. 👉 saltandlight.myflodesk.com/saltandlightadvisors

Need fractional HR support or want to talk through a specific challenge? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/contact

Ready to build foundational HR systems on your own? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hrfoundations

Connect with Kerri: 📷 Instagram: instagram.com/kerrimroberts 💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kerrimroberts 🐎 Hippo Creek Farm on Instagram: instagram.com/hippocreekfarm

Episode-specific resources mentioned:

• HireVue — AI-powered video interviewing and candidate screening
• Ideal — AI recruiting software
• Predictive Index — behavioral assessment and talent optimization platform
• Lattice — performance management and employee development software
• BetterWorks — OKR and performance management platform
• Qualtrics — employee experience and survey platform
• Tiny Pulse — employee engagement surveys
• Skill Survey — reference and feedback tool
• SurveyMonkey — free survey tool with pre-built employee surveys
• Talla and Leena AI — AI chatbots for onboarding and HR FAQs
• Degreed — AI-powered learning experience platform
• Coursera for Business — corporate learning and upskilling
• ChatGPT / OpenAI — for analyzing survey data and building IDPs
• Episode 32: The Power of Upskilling — kerrimroberts.com/dontwastethechaos/32

Full show notes + transcript: kerrimroberts.com/dontwastethechaos/38

Support the show

Working parent guilt is something most of us carry around every single day — but here's what very few people know: guilt and shame are not the same thing, and confusing the two may be doing far more damage than either emotion would on its own. Karen Brooks has spent over 20 years working with at-risk youth, trauma survivors, and adolescent girls, and this conversation is one of the most genuinely helpful things I've recorded on this podcast. Whether you're a working parent yourself or a leader who wants to understand what your employees are quietly carrying, this episode is for you.

In this episode, you'll learn:

1. The critical difference between guilt and shame — why they are not interchangeable, why guilt is actually healthy and serves as the catalyst for growth and change (linked to empathy and course correction), while shame is toxic and linked to anger, irritability, and self-destructive behavior — and how to identify in real time which one you're functioning from based on your physical and emotional responses
2. How guilt and shame manifest differently in parenting — how unresolved shame gets transferred directly onto children (the bike-falling example), how parenting from a place of shame looks like irritability, reactivity, and aggression rather than connection, and why modeling guilt (acknowledging and processing it openly) actually teaches children healthy resilience
3. Why the working parent versus stay-at-home parent debate is completely irrelevant to child outcomes — what the research actually says (quality over quantity every single time), why a parent who works 90 hours but shows up fully present in 20 minutes can have healthier children than a parent who is physically present but emotionally unavailable or functioning from shame
4. The long-term effects on children when parents carry unaddressed shame — why children of shame-driven parents are more likely to model self-destructive behaviors, engage in risky behaviors, and struggle professionally — and why modeling guilt-driven behavior instead actively builds the resiliency that is the single most important predictor of life success
5. Four practical tools for managing shame in the moment — Epsom salt baths to lower cortisol (the magnesium is absorbed through the skin), calling a trusted person (research shows that talking through a problem cuts the emotional weight in half), physical movement to release endorphins, and five-finger breathing (a hand-tracing breathing technique that works in under two minutes and can be done anywhere, including under a desk)

About the guest: Karen Brooks is a certified life coach specializing in the development of adolescent girls ages 12 to 21, with a master's degree in social services and over 20 years of clinical experience working with at-risk youth in women's shelters, drug and alcohol centers, and human trafficking advocacy. She also serves as a hospital advocate for survivors of sexual assault through Guided Growth Teen Coaching.

Chapter Markers:

• 00:00 — Is Parent Guilt Actually Shame? Why the Difference Matters
• 02:16 — Common Triggers for Parental Guilt and Shame (Social Media and Comparison)
• 06:52 — The Critical Difference Between Guilt and Shame — And Why It Changes Everything
• 11:00 — Guilt = Empathy. Shame = Anger. How to Tell Which One You're Feeling
• 12:37 — How Guilt and Shame Affect Your Relationship with Your Kids
• 16:28 — Impact on Parent Mental and Emotional Well-Being
• 19:52 — Societal Expectations and the Working vs. Stay-at-Home Parent Debate
• 23:40 — Quality Over Quantity: What the Research Actually Says About Parenting Time
• 26:28 — How to Know When Shame Is Becoming Harmful to You and Your Family
• 27:18 — Kerri's Personal Story: The Closet Clean-Out Moment
• 30:41 — Long-Term Effects on Children of Shame-Driven Parenting
• 35:09 — Four Tools for Managing Shame: Self-Care, Epsom Salt, Phone Calls & Five-Finger Breathing
• 40:10 — Self-Compassion and Giving Yourself Grace as a Parent
• 42:13 — Final Advice for Working Parents Trying to Find Balance

This episode is a personal one for me, but it connects directly to what I see in organizations all the time — employees and leaders who are burning out personally, carrying that into work, and not knowing why. If you want to know whether your HR systems are set up to support your people's wellbeing, take the free HR Audit: saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🔍 Ready to find out what's really going on inside your business? Take the free Salt & Light HR Audit at saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit. In about 10 minutes, you'll get a clear picture of where your people operations stand — and exactly where to focus next. No fluff, no sales pitch. Just clarity.

Resources to keep building:

🎯 Take the free HR Audit — Score your HR systems in 5 minutes and see exactly where your gaps are. 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🎙️ Listen to Don't Waste the Chaos — The podcast for small business owners building strong people operations. 👉 kerrimroberts.com/podcast

📖 Get The HR Easy Button — Kerri's book on building HR systems that actually work for small businesses. 👉 https://amzn.to/4cPyrFh

✉️ Subscribe to the newsletter — Weekly HR insights for founders, in your inbox every Monday. 👉 saltandlight.myflodesk.com/saltandlightadvisors

Need fractional HR support or want to talk through a specific challenge? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/contact

Ready to build foundational HR systems on your own? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hrfoundations

Connect with Kerri: 📷 Instagram: instagram.com/kerrimroberts 💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kerrimroberts 🐎 Hippo Creek Farm on Instagram: instagram.com/hippocreekfarm

Episode-specific resources mentioned:

• Karen Brooks — guidedgrowthteencoaching.com
• Karen Brooks on LinkedIn — link in show notes
• Five-finger breathing technique — demonstrated on video (watch on YouTube)

Full show notes + transcript: kerrimroberts.com/dontwastethechaos/37

Support the show

Outdated HR practices aren't just inefficient — they're actively costing you talent, productivity, and your competitive edge in the market. Most business owners and HR teams know something feels off about how they're running their people operations, but they don't know exactly where to start fixing it. This episode is the practical, no-fluff walkthrough you need to identify what's holding you back and exactly how to modernize it — one step at a time.

In this episode, you'll learn:

1. Ten outdated HR practices that may still be running your business into the ground — manual paperwork and filing systems, once-a-year performance reviews with no calibration and a three-point scale, rigid nine-to-five schedules, one-size-fits-all benefits, lengthy and complicated recruitment processes, over-reliance on resumes and interviews, gut-feeling decision-making instead of HR data, infrequent training, reactive employee relations, and failing to measure diversity and inclusion in any meaningful way
2. Why updating these practices isn't just a "culture" investment — the ROI case for modernizing HR including improved employee engagement and retention, attracting top talent your competitors are currently poaching from you, boosting efficiency and reducing costs, ensuring compliance with ever-evolving labor laws, and staying competitive in a market that is moving faster than most HR systems
3. How to conduct a DIY HR audit — reviewing your current practices across recruitment, onboarding, performance management, benefits, and compliance to identify gaps, comparing against industry standards, and using a quick employee survey to surface what you're already missing
4. How to adopt continuous performance management that actually gets done — why Kerri recommends starting with a formal annual review plus a bi-annual 360 review before attempting real-time feedback systems, what calibration meetings look like in practice, and why managers scoring employees in isolation without comparing notes is one of the most expensive mistakes in performance management
5. How to use data-driven decision-making in HR without making it complicated — using free tools like SurveyMonkey and OpenAI to build and send an employee satisfaction survey, identifying themes in the data, communicating results back to employees, building action plans, and turning that process into an ongoing culture committee

Chapter Markers:

• 00:00 — Why Outdated HR Practices Are Killing Your Business (And What to Do About It)
• 01:49 — Outdated Practice 1: Manual Paperwork and Filing Systems
• 02:41 — Outdated Practice 2: Annual-Only Performance Reviews
• 03:42 — Outdated Practice 3: Rigid Nine-to-Five Schedules
• 04:10 — Outdated Practice 4: One-Size-Fits-All Employee Benefits
• 05:00 — Outdated Practices 5–7: Slow Recruitment, Resume-Only Hiring & Gut-Feel Decisions
• 06:15 — Outdated Practices 8–10: Infrequent Training, Reactive Employee Relations & D&I Gaps
• 08:22 — Why You Should Care: Engagement, Retention, Talent, Efficiency & Compliance
• 12:18 — How to Start: Conducting an HR Audit and Gap Analysis
• 13:06 — Leveraging HR Tech: What an HRIS Actually Does (And Why It's Simpler Than You Think)
• 15:04 — Shifting to Data-Driven Decision-Making: Surveys, Themes & Culture Committees
• 17:11 — Creating Flexible and Inclusive Work Policies (And What Your Insurance Broker Should Be Doing)
• 19:48 — Adopting Continuous Performance Management: 360 Reviews, Calibration & Real-Time Feedback
• 22:44 — Focusing on Employee Development: IDPs, Cross-Training & E-Learning
• 23:48 — Involving Leadership, Building a Task Force & Reviewing Practices Regularly

The free HR Audit is specifically designed to help you identify exactly which outdated practices are most urgent for your organization — take it before you try to DIY any of this: saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🔍 Ready to find out what's really going on inside your business? Take the free Salt & Light HR Audit at saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit. In about 10 minutes, you'll get a clear picture of where your people operations stand — and exactly where to focus next. No fluff, no sales pitch. Just clarity.

Resources to keep building:

🎯 Take the free HR Audit — Score your HR systems in 5 minutes and see exactly where your gaps are. 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hraudit

🎙️ Listen to Don't Waste the Chaos — The podcast for small business owners building strong people operations. 👉 kerrimroberts.com/podcast

📖 Get The HR Easy Button — Kerri's book on building HR systems that actually work for small businesses. 👉 https://amzn.to/4cPyrFh

✉️ Subscribe to the newsletter — Weekly HR insights for founders, in your inbox every Monday. 👉 saltandlight.myflodesk.com/saltandlightadvisors

Need fractional HR support or want to talk through a specific challenge? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/contact

Ready to build foundational HR systems on your own? 👉 saltandlightadvisors.com/hrfoundations

Connect with Kerri: 📷 Instagram: instagram.com/kerrimroberts 💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kerrimroberts 🐎 Hippo Creek Farm on Instagram: instagram.com/hippocreekfarm

Episode-specific resources mentioned:

• Episode 33: Paytient with Brian Whorley (flexible employee benefits) — kerrimroberts.com/dontwastethechaos/episode-33-paytient-solving-the-healthcare-affordability-crisis
• SurveyMonkey — for building employee satisfaction surveys
• ChatGPT / OpenAI — for building survey questions
• Salt and Light Advisors HR tech partnerships — saltandlightadvisors.com/contact

Full show notes + transcript: kerrimroberts.com/dontwastethechaos/36

Support the show