In which John Heilemann talks with Dr. Vin Gupta and Dr. Leana Wen, two public health rising stars who have emerged as influential and indispensable voices on Covid-19 in the past year. Heilemann, Gupta, and Wen discuss the Biden administration’s response to the pandemic and whether its success in exceeding its vaccination goals portends victory in the fight against Covid; the controversies over the Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca vaccines in America and Europe, respectively; the factors behind vaccine hesitancy and what measures might be taken to overcome it; and the imperative of restarting the economy and why vaccine passports may be a big part of the solution. Drs. Gupta and Wen also share their fears about the future, especially on the international front, where new variants of the virus are springing up all the time; their views about whether Covid will ever be eradicated and what the new normal might look like; and what they would do if granted god-like powers to implement any regime they wished to combat the pandemic.

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