In this conversation, Dr. David Johns welcomes back a colleague, a co-conspirator, and a genuine friend from their Obama White House days—Dr. Zakiya Smith Ellis—for an honest, urgent, and surprisingly joyful conversation about the state of public education in America and what it demands of all of us, in spite of this moment.

Zakiya brings her full toolkit: the policy precision of a former Senior Advisor on the White House Domestic Policy Council and U.S. Department of Education, the grounded clarity of New Jersey's former Secretary of Higher Education, and the voice of a mother who—in spite of best-laid plans—had to pause this very recording to redirect her daughter and close a door. Together, she and David break down the federal push to require all recipients of federal funding to certify they don't operate "illegal DEI" programs, unpacking what those words actually mean, what the courts have repeatedly said, and why the vagueness is entirely the point. They take on the narrative that public schools are failing, the difference between an executive order and the law of the land, and what Black families—and all families invested in democracy—should be asking, demanding, and refusing to be intimidated into silence about.

In spite of what's being torn down, Zakiya insists we are still living in the house. And she wants us to start dreaming about what we're going to build.

SHOW NOTES & RESOURCES

Organizations doing critical work right now:

• NAACP Legal Defense Fund (LDF) — ldf.org
• Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law — lawyerscommittee.org
• Democracy Forward — democracyforward.org
• LULAC (League of United Latin American Citizens) — lulac.org
• EducationCounsel — educationcounsel.com (weekly plain-language updates on the latest policy and legal developments)

Follow Dr. Zakiya Smith Ellis:

• Substack: zakiyaellis.substack.com
• Instagram: @zakiyasmithellis

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/teach-the-babies-w-dr-david-j-johns--6173854/support.