Dream a Little Deeper

For what is the final Xerox era Disney film, Alex takes a look at the declining state of Disney in popular perception overall, not just for animation. Disney scrambles to recover, and makes a bunch of attempts to return to form and save costs. Alex and Terra clown on how bad the opening of this movie is, while offering slight praise at how even the good parts of the film are middling at best. Terra complains about the visual fidelity of the Disney+ version of the film. All of our guests talk about how sad the movie is and how that disincentives watching it. Alex doesn’t care about the Todd/Copper relationship, while Terra brings a queer reading to their pairing. Terra highlights some weirdness surrounding the film’s depiction of parenting and teaching younger generations, which our guest Jenna expands on with an exploration on Big Mama as a black stereotype. Alex finds Widow Tweed fairly well rounded and adjusted. We end with updated rankings of the movies so far and Terra nervously outlines their research process.

Originally recorded March 12th, 2022.

The second movie Disney released in 1977, Alex uses the history section to focus on the company’s wider changes and the way this sets up the management transition that precedes the 90s renaissance. Production of The Rescuers is especially tense as the old guard animators and new hires clash over teaching styles and production decisions, which sets the stage for what happens around the release and development of The Black Cauldron (Terra will get into it later). Terra is put off by the visual stereotyping of the mice in the Mouse UN, Alex loves the cold open at the start of the movie, and Terra sees Don Bluth’s fingerprints all over the place. Alex and Terra disagree over if we can hold the quality of the source material against the film. Alex unpacks how the movie treats Bianca and what this says about the film’s attitude towards women. Speaking of women, Terra likes Medusa, surprise surprise, and articulates why she’s better than Cruella. Alex has quibbles with some voice acting choices, and the bayou itself is a very scary place. Don’t go into strange bayous, kids. Swamps and bogs and bayous are dangerous.

Originally recorded February 26th, 2022.

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Disney released two movies in 1977, so Alex focuses on animation department politics and Winnie the Pooh facts in this episode, and saves wider company stuff for the next one, because god forbid we have an episode with a light history section in it. While this episode features multiple guests, Elise McGouran has so much to say about this movie we should have just recorded the discussion with her, that’s how much Alex has to edit her in. Much like with Sleeping Beauty, Terra and Alex cover so much ground that this would be far too long an episode description. They do spend a lot of time on adaptational changes, metatextual gags and narrative, and take a divergence into discussing sequences that are eerily reminiscent of military propaganda within Disney’s secret fifth package film.

Originally recorded February 6th, 2022.

Listen to all of Dream A Little Deeper: Season 2 on our Patreon now: patreon.com/talkfilmsociety

Yes, we talk about furries. Terra also talks a lot today. These points are unrelated.

This time, ROY Disney dies. Before he died though, he oversaw the completion of Walt Disney World. This went, uh…well, it went. This, coupled with the energy crisis and shuffle of leadership, sends the company further into the chaos that Walt’s death created. Needless to say, this affects the production of Robin Hood. It’d be great if these animators could catch a break at any point, huh? Anyways, Terra posits the fondness for this movie is influenced by nostalgia. Our guests argue that the fun and joy of the movie is infectious, which makes the tone shift at the end really hit. Terra thinks the movie feels made for TV in multiple ways, Alex thinks the focus is too much on people who aren’t Robin Hood, and they both discuss why the children characters are better in this than the Aristocat children. Terra talks about feudal economic hierarchies. The Sheriff of Nottingham is the most despicable villain in the whole film, King Richard has his hands washed of blame for the Crusades, and every one of Robin Hood’s actions are justified by Prince John and Sir Hiss being war criminals and narcissistic monsters. Alex complains about the lack of stakes in the recent run of films but praises the lightness this creates, and Terra argues there really should be a cultural sensitivity warning at the start. Terra relishes the amount of gender present in Robin and Little John. Our hosts also dig into the finer points of actors who only have one voice that they use and why some of them are good and some of them aren’t. Terra has reached their limit on the fake Disney deaths. Like seriously, stop it. No one buys this. Please stop it.

Originally recorded Jan 22nd, 2022.

Listen to all of Dream A Little Deeper: Season 2 on our Patreon now: patreon.com/talkfilmsociety

The corporate structure of Disney falls into disarray after Walt dies, and the company finds itself in creative paralysis trying to stay true to the “What Would Walt Do” mantra. This, naturally, involves focusing on the parks more than actual movies, which means Alex decides the most prudent thing to do is talk to her dad about accounting and finances for longer than you would expect. Some of our guests sing the praises of The Aristocats from a nostalgic, personal perspective. Terra and Alex, however, are significantly less enthusiastic about having watched this film. They balk at the French-ness of the French setting, comparing the film to 101 Dalmatians in connection to the setting and structure. Alex is annoyed by some characters, namely Thomas O’Malley, who cannot pick a lane in terms of what model of masculinity he wants to follow. Terra takes issue with the Dutchess part of the relationship and how she regards Thomas. Terra fully despises the children, but Alex has a more nuanced read on their depiction. Terra fully adores most of the incidental animal side characters, except for the alley cats for, ya know, REASONS, and all of our guests have similar issues with those characters. Alex waits until the very end of the pod to bring up Edgar, his whole situation, and the class implications therein. Terra and Alex have opinions on Edgar that may be hot or may be ice cold, depends how y’all react to this episode. Tweet us and leave iTunes reviews please, we need to know what the case is.

Originally recorded Jan 15th, 2022

Listen to all of Dream A Little Deeper: Season 2 on our Patreon now: patreon.com/talkfilmsociety

Walt dies in this one, so the history section is long and complicated because Walt was extremely petty and couldn’t help screwing people over (both family and employees), even until his final breath. Walt’s brother wasn’t much better, he just decided to commit tax fraud primarily. Alex and Terra discuss if tickets sold or money made is the best way to judge the popularity of movies. Terra gives a very brief overview of Rudyard Kipling, one of our guests asks if there are wolves in India, and Alex remarks upon the obvious whiteness of all the voice actors and explains imperialism. Our hosts welcome the return of their dear friend, the cultural content warning, and dig into what that could POSSIBLY be in reference to throughout this movie set in the jungles of India. Terra doesn’t necessarily ship Baloo and Bagheera, they just are getting major divorced dad vibes from this relationship. Our hosts argue about the ending and if it makes any logical sense at all (it doesn’t, Terra is correct, don’t listen to Alex). Terra praises Baloo’s character animation, then Alex says she thinks the movie looks good, a statement that catches Terra off guard and prompts a discussion of the ways this movie could look even better. Terra praises Shere Khan’s vibes and Alex highlights how little of a threat he actually is, which undercuts the stakes of the film writ large. Ultimately, The Beatles would have made this movie better if they were here.

Originally recorded Jan 2022.

Listen to all of Dream A Little Deeper: Season 2 on our Patreon now: patreon.com/talkfilmsociety

This week, Alex stresses Walt’s disinterest in animation and the resultant corporate changes surrounding the production of The Sword in the Stone, including the beginnings of intergenerational animator drama. Only one of our interview guests had actually seen Sword in the Stone, so the bulk of the work falls to Terra and Alex to discuss how mid this whole movie is. Terra compares this to the package films, has their faith in the storybook opening broken, and nitpicks historical accuracy. Alex thinks Merlin is a bad teacher, highlights the nonsensical depiction of the monarchy throughout the film, and calls this a “coffee shop AU King Arthur fan fic.” Our hosts praise Archimedes as the best part of the film, Terra can’t help but bring up Fantasia, and squirrels do be horny in this movie. Like, honestly, it’s real weird; what were they thinking putting this in the movie????

Originally recorded October 30th, 2021.

Listen to all of Dream A Little Deeper: Season 2 on our Patreon now: patreon.com/talkfilmsociety

To start off this first real episode back, Alex makes the rather bold assumption that we would post this before a full year had passed between episodes (oops) before digging into the company-wide changes and production issues surrounding 101 Dalmatians, including the advent of Xerox animation. Alex also examines the heteronormative attitudes baked into the film, which feeds into a very critical discussion of the film’s understanding of economics and class (this devolves into a very long Jane Austen tangent that’s all Terra’s fault). Alex and our guests delve into what really makes Cruella work as a villain or possibly a feminist icon, which leads Terra and Alex into a debate about the role of women in the movie. Terra is terrible at basic math.

Originally recorded October 9th, 2021.

Listen to all of Dream A Little Deeper: Season 2 on our Patreon now: patreon.com/talkfilmsociety

Oh, hey! Didn’t see you come in! Been quite the month off huh? Ok, so obviously Alex and Terra have been gone for longer than a month, but they have certainly been busy!!! In an effort to re-familiarize themselves with the process of making a podcast (a thing that no one should ever do), they take the time to answer some listener-submitted questions about their personal lives, movies in general, and address larger questions about Disney’s output and existence.

Originally recorded October 2nd, 2021.

This week, Alex and Harrison tackle 1959’s Sleeping Beauty. Alex once again provides a history of the struggle over the film’s production, from the continued issues with coordinating with Walt to prolonged disagreements between the staff animators and concept artist Eyvind Earle, as well as the reception of Sleeping Beauty. In the discussion section, Alex and Harrison go extremely hard, covering so many topics so quickly that to chronicle them all here would result in something the length of a small novella. Ultimately – with the help of some guests – they examine the distinct aesthetics of Sleeping Beauty’s different spaces, discuss the differences between the depiction and perception of gender in the film, debate who Sleeping Beauty is actually about, and sing the praises of Maleficent and the Good Fairies.

Follow the show on Twitter @DreamDeeperPod, Alex on Twitter @alex_isaak and instagram @alexisaak_, and Harrison on Twitter @Play_Champion. You can also email the show at [email protected]