In this episode of The New Rules Podcast, Adrian and Bri sit down with one of their favorite thinkers, Mark Sayers, pastor of Red Church in Melbourne and author of A Non-anxious Presence and Reappearing Church. Known for his insights on faith, culture, and leadership, Mark unpacks what it means to live and lead faithfully in a world defined by uncertainty, disinformation, and rapid technological change.

Together, they explore:

• How AI and cultural instability are reshaping leadership.

• The hidden spiritual hunger emerging beneath global chaos.

• The loss of truth, the rise of tribalism, and what authentic hope looks like now.

• Why the next era of leadership requires depth, humility, and integrity rather than platforms.

This is a timely and deeply grounded conversation about faith, formation, and the kind of leadership the future desperately needs.

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