Eccles Business Buzz

When you fall, you can always stand up and do it again and again and again until you make it. That is what perseverance means to Jolly Karungi, a recent graduate of the David Eccles School of Business and Eccles student of the year in 2020.

During her time at the Eccles school, she participated in the Business Scholars and First Ascent programs in addition to a variety of other student organizations on campus. She graduated with a major in Information Systems.

Jolly was born in the Republic of Congo and lived in a refugee camp in Uganda for several years before coming to Utah. 

She shares the struggles she had to endure living in different environments and the difficulties navigating systems without knowing how to speak the language. However, her passion for learning and adapting together with perseverance helped her overcome the challenges.

Jolly also tells her plans after graduation, her future goals, and what excites her the most in going back home where her family is. 

Jolly's definition of perseverance

"If you have a passion, you need to do something; you do not give up. It's tough. It's not easy. So, for me, it's doing things no matter how hard they are and not giving up. It doesn't matter how many times you fall. You can always stand up and do it again and fall again and do it again until you can do it."

Why it's helpful to lean on people and ask for help when needed

"I realized that there are people who are willing to help, as long as you ask. People won't just help you because they don't know if you need help or not. Not everyone will be able to help you, but they will refer you to someone who will help you. So, leaning on people and asking for help, that's what got me through."

What motivated her to go to school and continue learning even though it's hard

"I just loved learning. I knew if I was not in a class, I was not learning. It's true I was not learning at all even when I was there, but just going there every single day, it's a process of me to learn how to learn. It's better just staying home and sleeping, but how would that help you? So, just being there and having the passion of learning and achieving something. Things will not find you sitting. You have to keep looking for them."

Jolly's advice for people who are also struggling to navigate new systems

"I would say just go for it, do something that you love. I know sometimes people want to satisfy their family or their parents. They tell them to do this, but they want to do that. Just be honest with yourself and do something that you like.

Also, the struggle is real. You're not alone. It's real for everyone. I'm not going to tell you it's perfect. So, you're going to struggle but also remember there's support. Don't struggle alone. So many people are willing to help you out, standing on your side even though you can't see them. They are always there. Just go ahead and ask for help or reach out to people in the school and the community."

• LinkedIn
• Business Scholars Program
• First Ascent Scholars Program
• Cotopaxi Foundation

This week, we have the honor of chatting with Gail Miller, the owner of the Larry H. Miller Group of Companies and Immediate Past Chair of the Board of Directors of Larry H. Miller Management Corporation. She currently serves on the president's campaign senior advisory council at the University of Utah. 

Aside from being actively engaged in the company's various operations, Gail also presides over the Larry H. Miller Education Foundation and the Larry H. and Gail Miller Family Foundation. She gives generously of her time and resources to civic endeavors. 

In this episode, Gail shares with us details about her upbringing and what it was like to grow up in a large family where money was often tight. Listen as she tells us how she persevered through the challenges in her life - from being the supporter of her family to being a wife and mother and ultimately stepping to a new role of becoming the owner of a large company. 

We can all resonate with the biggest obstacle in Gail's life - fear. It's the reason she wrote her book, Courage to Be You: Inspiring Lessons from An Unexpected Journey. It's compelling how she overcame fear through faith and perseverance.

We also hear why Gail got involved with the university community and what inspired her to get connected to higher education. She also has some pretty good advice for women who want to transition from being stay-at-home mothers to the workplace once again.

Finally, we get to know the future of Larry H. Miller Group of Companies and what Gail hopes her legacy will be.

Why she supports many of the women's initiatives at the university and business school

"When I was in the trenches of running our company, I think it put me in a position of recognition in the community that here's a woman who took this business, she stepped in, didn't make it fail, and hung on and became very successful. And I think as that happened, other women looked at what I did and felt that I was a role model. I never aspired to be, nor did I ever aspire to be a businesswoman, but that's why I feel it's important to support women as they want to become successful either in the business world or a nonprofit world or education or whatever they want to do. If I can be an influence by supporting women in their endeavors, I'm happy to do that."

On the importance of education

"I can see what it provides. Not just women but anyone who goes to college, it's not just the education you get. It's all of the other parts of it, everything that goes with it. It's being able to prepare yourself in life with what education gives you, having exposure to how the world works and to a variety of organizations and institutions and people, makes them well-rounded. It prepares them to go out into the world and take responsibilities that help society function well. Those are things I think are so beneficial about an education."

On growing up 

"I don't feel like I was deprived because our parents taught us how to be creative, make do with what we have, develop our talents, and have confidence in ourselves. And so, I learned a lot of things from not having much that helped me navigate practically in the world.

And it's interesting how the things that you go through in life do build your character and build that, I call it a tapestry of your life because everything you do adds to that quilt that you're making, and some parts of it are right and colored, and some are not quite so beautiful. But when it's all together, it's quite nice. I wouldn't change any of that."

What does it mean to persevere? 

"To me, it means every day is a new adventure. Today is going to be different than yesterday but because it's a new adventure, I try to look at it with fresh eyes and add it to what I've already learned. And that's persevering - knowing that I can get through today, I can do what I need to, I can benefit from what I've learned, and I can build on that for tomorrow. And I don't have to carry baggage with me. Every day, I can do something new and useful, find joy and courage, overcome my trials, and build strength."

Advice to stay at home women who are looking to transition into the workforce

"I always think of it as seasons of life. There is a time to be a mother and a wife, and a homemaker. There's a time to go to school. There's a time to build your career. And if they dovetail, that's great. If you can manage that, that's great. But only whether you're capable of doing it. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't mean you're a failure. It just means maybe the time isn't right. But it will be later. 

If women want to have a career, that's great. I look at women who have great careers, and I think, wow, I wish I could do that. And then, I think if they want to be a stay-at-home mom, I don't think there's anything more important than that.

So, it's not an either-or. It's a matter of where your focus is and what you really want to do, what you want for yourself. And I think you can have a career and have wonderful children at the same time, but I certainly wouldn't judge anyone if they chose one over the other."

• Larry H. Miller Group of Companies
• Courage to Be You: Inspiring Lessons from An Unexpected Journey

Learn more about Legacy Giving - Email Katie Pearce at [email protected]

Keep moving ahead no matter what life throws at you. It is what Katie Abby, Assistant Dean over Business Career Services and Corporate Outreach, has to say about perseverance. 

Katie began her career in the healthcare staffing industry as a physician recruiter for CHG Healthcare. In 1990, she co-founded VISTA Staffing Solutions, serving first as COO and then as President before its acquisition in 2007. 

She has been named one of the “30 Women to Watch” by Utah Business Magazine, is a generous donor to the David Eccles School of Business, a cancer survivor, and a self-described gym rat. She is addicted to endurance sports, an avid triathlete, and had successfully finished the Wisconsin Ironman in 2007.

Today, we get to listen to how Katie started VISTA, the things she learned in building a company, and the challenges they had to overcome.

Katie also shares her work in career services, the things they do differently from traditional university career services, and how they work together and overcome obstacles as a team. 

Finally, we hear about the most significant obstacle that Katie had to overcome and how she did it through perseverance. 

Perseverance for Katie

"I think perseverance does mean taking what life throws at you and maybe not reacting right away, but taking a step back to think about things because there usually is an answer or a solution or an alternative route that you can take. You just have to keep moving ahead."

Her take on the future of work

"I do think the way we work may be transforming forever. There's a lot of value in face-to-face communication and building relationships. And I think we've learned that while we certainly can continue 100% virtually, it's awfully nice to be able to be with people. So, my hope is that perhaps we transition back towards where we were before but with a more open and flexible mindset."

How she encouraged her team to persevere during last year's chaos

"It's so hard to know how good or not good a job you did, but whenever I face difficult things or challenges, it's really helpful to focus on something productive. 

Just giving people the opportunity to be able to do their job, first and foremost, but then if they were having challenges or problems, whether those be personal or professional, to allow them the opportunity to say, Hey, I'm really struggling here and cut them a little slack. And it seems to have worked well."

The lesson she learned on overcoming the biggest obstacle in her life 

"First and foremost, you can take your situation and either wallow in it or take your situation and say, okay, this is where we are; let's do something with it. As a family, we chose to not focus on the end of life but focus on life today and right now. And I think that that has helped me in pretty much everything since then.

Whenever I have an obstacle now, I think about its importance, and it might be important, but in comparison, how big a deal is it, really? Putting things in perspective can help you take that step back and figure out a way to keep moving forward."

Advice for people who are experiencing hard days and having difficulty moving forward

"Over the years, one of the biggest things I've learned is that we don't have to go at it alone. When I feel frustrated, I turn to so many people. I'm surrounded by incredible talent on my team. If I'm having a personal challenge or a professional challenge, I don't have to sit there and try and figure it out by myself. I have a number of people who are skilled and talented and willing and want to help. 

And so that's a big piece of advice that I give to people because as a competitive person, it's sometimes really hard to ask for help, but the more you do it, and the more you realize the satisfaction and the joy you get over overcoming obstacles as a team, it becomes easier and easier to do."

• Career Services 
• School Profile
• LinkedIn

Saving the world — one box at a time is the ultimate goal at Packsize and Packsize NOW™. Today, we are thrilled to chat with Hanko and Laura Kiessner of Packsize Intl and Hansi Kiessner of Packsize NOW™. All three are proud University of Utah alumni!

Packsize is a multinational technology company that develops, manufactures, supports, and sells a full spectrum of advanced packaging systems and automated machine technology. In 2016, Hansi founded Packsize NOW™, which provides big box store technology and pricing with local box store service and support.

Hanko and Laura talk about how they started Packsize from scratch and their challenges, especially with a growing family to take care of. They also tell us how perseverance helped them become an industry leader today due to their focus on innovation and improvement, as well as sustainability. This year, Hanko was awarded Entrepreneur of the Year by MountainWest Capital Network.

Hansi also shares his experiences with Packsize NOW™. He tells us the company's early beginnings, where it is now, and the path it's going moving forward, plus how they managed to get through the pandemic as a young company.

Hanko's vision when he came back with his family to the US

"So, fresh off the boat in New York City, Hanko takes me to Wall Street and tells me that someday we're going to play a role in the world's biggest economy here. And that's what we did." - Hansi

On starting a business and taking care of a young family

"It's just staggering and overwhelming, just the sheer energy and dedication and commitment required to start a business. And in addition, you've got three young kids that you're raising. You're a parent to those kids. And to navigate that, it took a lot of self-awareness and understanding the leadership style and the working style of your partner, and understanding that there is that difference between business and a difference between family, but somehow they're married, and one needs to understand and make priorities." - Laura

Advice on young entrepreneurs:

"I would say that the journey is the goal. And so, focus on the steps. Of course, you should know where you're headed, but you need to be flexible to walk around obstacles, to get things out of your way. To really enjoy that journey the best you can and do what you can to make sure that it's fun and sustainable. You just stay focused on where you are." - Hanko

"One needs to enjoy what you're doing and have a passion for what you're doing. And take the time to set the priorities and make time to spend with your family, make time to get to know people, and enjoy the people you're working with because they are really what makes going to work fun." - Laura

On persevering through all failures and obstacles:

"That element is a key; when you get pushed down, come back up and figure it out, and keep figuring it out until it works." - Hanko

"Building something from nothing and not giving up took a tremendous amount of strength, both physically and mentally, and emotionally. Never give up, commit and be dedicated, and be loyal to know that you are going to help make a difference by making this business successful." - Laura

On their commitment to minimizing environmental impact:

"When we started Packsize, I made the commitment that I didn't want to start just any business with the same problems that some or many businesses have, which is they need to be profitable but then they end up being profitable at the expense of the society.

When you add up the pollution, the destruction to the planet, and you compare that with the profit of the company, the destruction might be a higher number than the profit and the goods that the company might have ever done. 

If you create a higher cost to society than your profit, you haven't done anything for society. So, from the get-go, I wanted to create a company that I'm proud of. And I wouldn't be proud of it if we were doing more damage than we were doing good. So, that is where we came up with we need to be sustainable." - Hanko

• Packsize
• Packsize NOW™
• MountainWest Capital Network Names Packsize CEO Hanko Kiessner 2021 Entrepreneur of the Year

Today we have the honor to chat with Kris Liacopoulos, who obtained both her undergraduate and graduate degrees from the University of Utah's David Eccles School of Business. She has since retired from her role as General Manager of Fidelity Investments.

Her involvement in the community reflects her passions around democracy, equality, and education and has included co-founding the Salt Lake Film Society and participating on the Advisory Board at the Eccles school, the Film Society, and Equality Utah.

In this episode, Kris shares her early life growing up in a Greek immigrant family, the struggles of being a first-gen student, and what inspired her to take that leap to pursue higher education.

Finally, she opens up about the biggest obstacles in her life and how perseverance and resilience helped her conquer them all.

The importance of building relationships and maintaining them:

“Being a first-time college-goer, I always thought you have to do it all on your own, and that's how you're successful. But, don't get me wrong; it is so much about both your commitment to just getting through it as well as your commitment to excellence.

I have been a hard worker, but I finally figured out this is the way the world works; you create relationships. You don't get there on your own, alone. You get there because of circles of people and connections that are willing to help you.”

Kris' piece of advice to first-generation students:

“I would say try really hard to build your vision of why you want to be at college. 

So for me, I knew that financial independence was really what I was striving for, ultimately. And I valued education, but I knew that I wouldn't be able to achieve that long-term goal without the actual degree. And so, the degree was an achievement. Absolutely. And it was something that made everybody proud. But keeping a focus on why I was there to keep me through the tough times was really important.”

One of the strongest mindsets you could ever have:

“It's particularly great when you are going through a hard patch, to remember, this too shall pass. And often, even that grounding helps you understand, Oh, and what's one step that I could take right now just to make it a little better? Cause I'm also a big believer in that. How do you get to the top of the mountain? One step at a time. You can't get there any other way.”

On persevering in the face of difficulties:

“I would wake up and think I'm alive. And my heart is beating. And most importantly, I'm not doing a thing to control that. Your heart beats outside of your control; your heart most often stops beating outside of your control. That's not what you have control over. What you have control over is, oh, I've awakened, I'm alive. And my heart is beating. And now my choice starts, my decision-making starts. How will this day help me or hinder me in terms of my long-term aspiration of where I'm going and who I want to be, and the type of person I aspire to be.”

On feeling like you didn't belong:

“I like to remind people - you belong. A lot of times, it feels like you may not belong, right? Because you find yourself in this wilderness, you find yourself doing things that no one has done before you. You find yourself being the minority person in the room, whatever that means. But believe in serendipity for lack of a better term. You are there for a reason. And so that says in and of itself, you belong there. So take some advantage of that. Don't shrink; step into it.”

• The Journey by Mary Oliver 
• Rising Strong by Brené Brown
• Dare to Lead by Brené Brown
• Untamed by Glennon Doyle
• The Midnight Library by Matt Haig

How can perseverance and self-sustainability help overcome the biggest obstacles in a business? It is what Blake Murray, Founder & CEO at Divvy, shared with us on this week's episode.

Blake talked about how he bounced around different career opportunities before ultimately cutting his teeth in the tech community and eventually launching his own company, Divvy, one of the fastest-growing financial technology companies in the country.

He let us in on Divvy's early beginnings, what exactly led the company to where it is today, and its future once the acquisition is complete.

Finally, Blake touched on perseverance when faced with a setback in your business and the importance of self-sustainability during difficult times. Listen and learn how these traits kept Divvy from survivability to thriving, where they became one of the fastest-growing companies in the entire United States through the pandemic.

On going through different career paths:

"When you sit down with people that have figured out how to build successful careers, the meandering path is by and large what you encounter. It's very rare that it's linear, that it's what you expected it to be. It's more of, how do I find opportunities, learn what I don't like, and then learn what I'm good at, and build from there and grow from there?"

How to have an impact on what you choose to do:

"I am a firm believer that if you're going to have an impact on everything, you have to throw yourself, dedicating time, energy, capital. It doesn't even have to be a material amount of capital."

On having self-confidence when faced with problems:

"I've had almost an irrational belief in myself or confidence that I can solve problems, like come hell or high water. When confronted with a problem, I'm going to find a way to figure it out no matter what."

His take on perseverance:

"So, perseverance means, to me, again, no one is coming; it's up to us, looking inward, having incredible confidence that you have the talents, the faculties, and the skills, to solve whatever you're up against, and just continuing to work and continuing to grind. And knowing that good fruits will come from that. It may not be the outcome that you expected, but good fruits will come from that."

On taking control of your future:

"I found that if you ask for what you need and what you want, you will be blown away at what people are willing to give you. And if you don't ask for it, you cannot be surprised when it's not given to you." 

• LinkedIn Profile
• Divvy
• On the acquisition 

What does it mean to be an All-star, All-American awardee? It's about understanding what's required of you, knowing how much time and effort you have to devote, and making decisions based on your trade-offs. This week's Business Buzz Podcast features multi-awarded lecturer Bonita Austin.

Bonita shares how she persevered in a male-dominated industry by focusing on the job and what it required from her. She gives advice to young audiences about achieving success and balancing trade-offs. We discussed how success is defined differently by each generation as well as how external factors, such as the pandemic, affect this.

In this episode, you’ll hear how she adapted to the extremely competitive life on Wall Street. Tune in till the end to find out about the work that they’ve been doing at the Goff Strategic Leadership Center.

What’s your definition of perseverance?

"When I think about perseverance, I think that equals in my own head, not quitting. But in addition to not quitting, it means figuring out how to achieve whatever it is you're trying to achieve. I think that's a really important component to persevering because if you just want to use a basic analogy, you could keep beating your head against the wall and you’ll just keep getting a headache if you keep doing that."

Thoughts on being a woman in a male-dominated field:

"You know what? I don't want to be like a man. I don't want to be, I want to be my own self. I want to be my own authentic person. I don't want to have to copy what men do to be successful and nothing against them.  People have different paths to success, but I don't want to be required to do anything just because of my gender. This may not be in line with what other career women tell you, but I also strongly believe that the women's liberation movement is about me doing what I want to do, not what you tell me to do."

What success means across generations:

"I don't think success means the same thing to the current generation of students. My generation when I was in school we had a totally different way of looking at things. I don't think my generation looked at everything correctly.  I think we've all worked very hard and we're getting towards the end of our careers. Some people look at millennials and say, oh they're lazy. Or you could look at it as maybe they're really onto something because all the job satisfaction in the world is not the same thing as getting satisfaction outside of at work. And if that's what's important to you, then you should work on having that work-life balance rather than just following what your parents did or what your grandparents did."

Profile

Bonita Austin’s Faculty Profile

Bonita Austin On LinkedIn

Learn more about the Goff Strategic Leadership Center 

The Goff Strategic Leadership Center believes that strategic leaders come from all backgrounds and all levels of experience. Wherever you are, and wherever you’re going, we’re here to help.

Follow Goff on social media, @GoffSLC on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Visit our website for more details, eccles.utah.edu/goff. Email us to learn more, [email protected].

Recommended Reading

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Jumping in, taking everything, and working hard to explore your limits. In today's episode, Chad Anselmo shares the first lesson he learned. Chad is an alumnus of the David Eccles School of Business. He is the CEO and founder of F1 Payments, an enterprise focused on accelerating business velocity for all parties in the payments ecosystem.

Chad begins the episode by discussing perseverance through his experience as a fresh graduate during the financial crisis and recession. Right after he graduated from the Eccles school, he had to change his plans and direction. Having tried his hand at employment in a venture capital that failed, he got his restart as a credit and collections officer at Universal Studios. Discover how he innovated and automated systems to achieve success at Universal. 

He discusses the role hope plays in reaching one's goals. Listen to what he has to say about handling growth, the surge of clients, and massive changes in the workplace. Find out how they became one of Texas Monthly's Best Companies to Work For. Don't miss his discussion of the culture of integrity and accountability his team built.

This week's show is all about persevering through obstacles, building and maintaining tools to be able to contribute to our relationships. Take a step back, examine your goal's guideposts, and keep going!

On how they manage work from home during the pandemic:

“We determined that productivity was just fine from working from home versus working in the office. We've had a very flexible policy since then, if you feel comfortable coming into the office, come into the office, we'd love to see you. If you feel more comfortable working at home and not having to brave commute then stay at home do that. Now having said that, we have accountability. No one gets a free pass on making sure they get their job done, but really we want people to feel comfortable and be able to feel like they have the best opportunity to be able to be successful.”

His thoughts on perseverance:

“We're all persevering through something and as we think about the obstacles in front of us, we ask, “How do we build and maintain tools to be able to look at how effective and efficient we are?” As well as how much we're contributing to our relationships in our lives? That to me is what perseverance is. Taking a step back, looking at your guideposts, making sure that you're between them, and then continuing on that journey of trying to get to your goals.”

What does he think of having hope as one of the school’s core values?

“Hope is, I think, germane to everything we're trying to accomplish. Like we hope for a good outcome. We hope to be able to make it. We hope to be able to have success. We hope for all these things. Now we put in place, good things to be able to allow us to be able to accomplish those things. Either process, people, relationships, or whatever to be able to accomplish it. But in the end, I think it's hope that drives humanity.”

• How to Become CEO by Jeffrey Fox
• Necromancer

• Get Seeded: Lassonde Entrepreneur Institute

Eccles Business Buzz is a podcast that is created by Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. This podcast features alumni and tackles different topics and issues around the globe and within our community. Stay connected with both the school and other alumni through updates on what's happening at Eccles and what's going on in the world of business.

Today, Leentje chats with two incredible guests and Eccles community members, Heidi Woodbury and Robert "Bob" McDonald.

Heidi joined the University of Utah’s senior leadership team as the new Vice President for Institutional Advancement. Previously, she served as the Assistant Dean for External Relations at the David Eccles School of Business.

Bob McDonald graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point in the top 2 percent of the Class of 1975 and earned his MBA from the University of Utah in 1978. Before joining VA, he was Chairman, President, and Chief Executive Officer of The Procter & Gamble Company (P&G). He was confirmed unanimously by the United States Senate to serve as the Secretary of Veterans Affairs under President Obama.

Bob and Heidi narrate a little bit about their backgrounds. They share their connection to the Eccles school, how they came to know each other, and the projects they have worked on together.

They share their views on empathy and how they applied it throughout their career. They also explained the role empathy plays in leadership development.

Finally, Bob and Heidi offer their advice to people on finding and discovering their life purpose and Bob shares his infamous leadership tenants that have guided Heidi throughout her career.

What is empathy?

Bob - "(Empathy) to me is an incredibly important leadership trait. (You) really have to be able to put yourself in the other person's position and understand that, not just logically, but viscerally, to be able to provide the proper leadership."

Heidi - "As far as putting somebody else before you or putting yourself in their shoes, the golden rule is to treat others as you would like to be treated. And the platinum rule is to treat others as they would like to be treated. And I think we miss that so often. Sometimes we're not listening to what it is they're trying to tell us. And sometimes, it's just the little things that go a long way."

Empathy on leadership development

Bob - "I can train you in all the behaviors of leadership, their technical behaviors. We can give you the judgment to decide to use them. What I can't train you in is the love you have to have for the people you work with. And it's that love that makes your behaviors authentic. It's that love that leads to empathy. I believe the very best leaders have that love, and that love shows up as empathy."

Heidi - "Most people don't want to fail. We have a hard time accepting failure. I feel empathy is a great way to help people recover. They've got to figure out how to get back out there, and you can't just tuck in and go away; you've got to brush off and figure out how you're going to go back out and try it again."

Heidi on her life purpose - "This university is my purpose. It has been a transformative experience for me. Every day that I come to work, this is a calling for me, and I'm blessed to have that. How many people can say they have a job that has so much meaning to them?"

Bob's advice on finding life's purpose - "Sometimes it takes time, but my suggestion is to look back across your life and look for threads of continuity in your life. As you try to connect those various activities in your life and get in touch with your passion, you try to articulate how that may ladder up to a bigger purpose."