In his interview, Steve Caswell said that a piece of entertainment has to work creatively, operationally and commercially.

In this Notes episode, I explore what happens when we treat those as three different perspectives from which to examine our work, and add a fourth: the perspective of the audience.

I also take you through a practical exercise for borrowing the thinking of someone whose operational or commercial judgement you respect, and using that perspective to notice different information, ask different questions and find different solutions.

• Creative, operational and commercial perspectives
• Why changing perspective changes what we notice
• Choosing someone to model
• A practical exercise in stepping into another person’s thinking
• Developing and refining your model
• Applying the same process to creative thinking
• The audience perspective, inspired by Jess Chambers
• The Practitioner–Producer model as a shift in perspective
• Robert Dilts’ Disney strategy: the Dreamer, the Realist and the Critic
• Understanding the different parts of the live-entertainment ecosystem

Watch or read about The Practitioner and The Producer:

www.john-blackburn.com/practitioner-and-producer

The interviews with Steve Caswell and Jess Chambers are also available in the Entertainment Matters podcast feed.

Website: www.john-blackburn.com

Instagram: @coachjohnblackburn

If you’d like to stay up to date with new episodes, please sign up to the Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet:

www.john-blackburn.com/pod

Website: www.petefaint.com

Instagram: @petefaint_

“It’s got to work creatively, it’s got to work operationally and it’s got to work commercially.”

Steve Caswell has spent more than two decades working in entertainment, including senior roles with Haven Holidays, Butlin’s and a privately owned entertainment business. In 2025, he launched Next Phase Entertainment, working across entertainment provision, collaboration and consultancy.

In this conversation, Steve talks about leadership, designing entertainment around its audience and purpose, and the relationship between creative, operational and commercial thinking. We also discuss changing entertainment offerings for new audiences, current challenges within the industry, and his hope for a more thoughtful, collaborative and sustainable future for entertainment.

Conversation sequence

• Introducing Steve and Next Phase Entertainment
• Steve’s different kinds of work
• Leadership in entertainment
• Designing entertainment offerings
• Understanding the creative and commercial relationship in live entertainment
• Challenges of transitioning entertainment offerings for different audiences
• Other current challenges in entertainment
• Myths to avoid in live entertainment
• A more thoughtful, collaborative and sustainable future for entertainment
• Steve’s standout live entertainment experiences
• Find out more about Steve and Next Phase Entertainment
  
  Find out more about Steve and Next Phase Entertainment

  Website: www.NextPhaseEntertainment.co.uk

  Email: [email protected]

  LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram: @NextPhaseEntertainment

  Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet

  If you’d like to stay up to date with new episodes, please sign up to the Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet:

  www.john-blackburn.com/pod

  Music

  Music by Pete Faint

  Website: www.petefaint.com

  Instagram: @petefaint_

Notes - on The Practitioner and The Producer: Freedom, Security and Creating Opportunities

“Sometimes if you want different results, it helps to try a different model.”

In this Notes episode, John introduces The Practitioner and The Producer, a model for looking at how careers, shows and projects in live entertainment work.

Starting with the question of how you get the freedom you want and the security you need, John looks at some of the stories we inherit about how entertainment careers are supposed to work, what can be hidden inside the word “just”, and how easily hoping to get lucky can become the whole plan.

He then explores the two roles that appear again and again across live entertainment: the Practitioner, who gets paid to do the work, and the Producer, who creates the opportunity in which that work gets paid.

In this episode:

• The five ways a Practitioner can move towards greater freedom and security
• The five resources a Producer needs to build, own or have access to
• Why you can be both a Practitioner and a Producer
• The difference between waiting for opportunities and creating them
• Why moving forwards in either role comes down to taking responsibility and learning to push your own buttons
• How another perspective can help you see what your current activities actually add up to

Explore The Practitioner and The Producer

You can explore the full model, see the diagram, watch the talk and read the written version here:

www.john-blackburn.com/practitioner-and-producer

Have a conversation with John

If this episode has helped you see your work differently, John would be very happy to have a conversation with you.

Usually, that conversation looks at what you currently want, what game you are currently playing, what your activities add up to, and whether your current plan is likely to take you where you say you want to go.

www.john-blackburn.com/connect-with-jb

Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet

If you’d like to stay up to date with new episodes, please sign up to the Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet:

www.john-blackburn.com/pod

Music by Pete Faint

Website: www.petefaint.com

Instagram: @petefaint_

inspired by Matt Roberts

Matt Roberts made the observation that one of the hardest things performers deal with is maintaining motivation.

In this episode, I explore the idea that motivation might not be something we simply wait for. Perhaps it's something we can learn to connect with deliberately.

Sign up to the Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet and stay up to date with new episodes and podcast news:

www.john-blackburn.com/pod

Music by Pete Faint.

Website: www.petefaint.com
Instagram: @petefaint_

This week I’m joined by Matt Roberts, Director and Head Agent at Roberts & Day Management.

We talk about Matt’s journey into agenting and the origins of Roberts & Day, growing up around music in Leeds and training in Blackpool, the realities of agency work, and some of the opportunities and challenges facing performers today.

Conversation sequence

• Introducing Matt
• Origins of Roberts & Day
• Blackpool and entertainment heritage
• Challenges for agents
• Challenges for performers studying outside London
• Challenges clients face
• Understanding Spotlight
• Industry myths
• How to get the most from having an agent
• Advice for people seeking representation
• How we might work better together
• Find out more about Matt

Find out more about Matt and Roberts & Day:

Website: www.robertsandday.co.uk
Instagram: @robertsandday
Matt on Instagram: @matthewr93
Email: [email protected]

Sign up to the Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet and stay up to date with new episodes and podcast news:

www.john-blackburn.com/pod

Music by Pete Faint.

Website: www.petefaint.com
Instagram: @petefaint_

Notes – on making and keeping promises
inspired by Janine Coombes

This episode is inspired by my conversation with Janine Coombes.

We explore Janine's idea of Promise, Package and Price alongside Seth Godin's observation that a brand is the promises you make and keep. From McDonald's and farmers market burger stalls to websites, posters, social media and show promotion, we look at how promises are communicated through the signals we send, whether we've thought about them or not.

The episode asks a simple question: what promises are you making, and are they the right promises for what you're trying to do and the people you're trying to do it for?

Sign up to the Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet and explore previous episodes at:

• https://www.john-blackburn.com/pod

With thanks to Pete Faint for the Entertainment Matters theme tune!

• Website: https://www.petefaint.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/petefaint_/

This week I’m joined by Janine Coombes, a marketing consultant and mentor who helps coaches and consultants think more clearly about their offers, positioning and pricing.

We talk about what an ‘offer’ actually is, Janine’s Promise, Package and Price framework, common mistakes in offer creation, and some of the myths that continue to shape how people think about marketing and selling. We also put those ideas to work by reviewing several entertainment websites and exploring what makes an act easy, or difficult, to book.

Learn more about Janine and her work:

• Website: https://janinecoombes.co.uk
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janinecoombes
• The Easy Yes: https://easy-yes.com

Sign up to the Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet and explore previous episodes at:

• https://www.john-blackburn.com/pod

With thanks to Pete Faint for the Entertainment Matters theme tune!

• Website: https://www.petefaint.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/petefaint_/

Notes - on value and worth
inspired by Charles Umney

In this Notes episode, I explore a distinction that emerged while thinking about my conversation with Charles Umney's work on the politics of value.

Phrases like "charge what you're worth" and "know your worth" are often useful and encouraging. But they can sometimes blur together two different ideas: your worth as a person, and the commercial value of the work you do.

I explore why those might be different things, why commercial value changes from one context to another, and why separating the two can help us understand our careers more clearly.

Along the way I discuss:

• Worth versus commercial value
• Why context matters
• Better clients, better employers, and better opportunities
• Understanding what people actually value

Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet:
https://www.john-blackburn.com/pod

With thanks to Pete Faint for the Entertainment Matters theme tune.

Website:
https://www.petefaint.com

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/petefaint_/

This week I’m joined by Charles Umney, Professor of International Work and Employment at the University of Leeds.

We talk about AI and creative work, Charlie’s idea of the politics of value, and why the real question may not be whether AI replaces musicians, but how it reshapes the conditions under which creative work is valued, paid for and understood.

We also explore platforms and algorithms, worker voice and collective bargaining, and what musicians, performers and entertainment professionals may need to think about as AI becomes part of the landscape.

Learn more about Charlie and his work:

Google Scholar
Charles Umney Google Scholar

University of Leeds
Charles Umney at University of Leeds

If you'd like to stay up to date with new episodes, please sign up to the Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet:
Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet

Music by Pete Faint
Website: Pete Faint
Instagram: @petefaint_

Entertainment Matters
Notes – on being organised
inspired by Claire Owen-Jones

In this notes episode, John Blackburn reflects on a moment from his conversation with Claire Owen-Jones, where she offers a simple definition of what being organised might actually look like.

Rather than treating organisation as a personality type or moral judgement, John explores the idea that being organised may be less about becoming a certain kind of person and more about discovering practical ways of doing things that genuinely work for you.

Entertainment Matters Cue Sheet:
https://www.john-blackburn.com/pod

Theme music by Pete Faint.

@petefaint_