Ostracized for leaving AA. Told she’d die if she walked away. Came back anyway. Left again. And is still here, and finally free.

In this raw, funny, and brutally honest conversation, Lilly and I talk about what it’s really like to be "AA-famous," get shunned when you “go out,” and slowly realize the thing you thought saved you is also harming you.

We get into informed consent, harmful sponsorship, Al-Anon culty offshoots, drinking again without going back to meetings, ADHD/dopamine, and why so many of us feel more broken after years in 12-step than we did going in.

If you’ve ever:

• Been terrified to leave AA because “you’ll die”
• Been shunned or quietly dropped when you stopped going
• Wondered if it’s ethical for traumatized non-professionals to hear 4th-step confessions
• Tried to “work on yourself” to death
• Or are just sitting in that after-recovery void thinking, “What now?”

…this one’s for you. You are not crazy, you are not alone, and you’re allowed to change your mind.

Timestamps:

00:00 Shunned After AA Intro

02:08 Leaving AA

07:46 Taking What She Wanted, Leaving The Rest

08:30 It's Unethical To Sponsor

10:01 We Met In AA

15:49 What The "Daily Reprieve" Actually Is

22:40 What Helped Lilly Leave AA

26:26 "Informed Consent" in AA

33:46 Harmful Alanon + Amends

45:36 AA Breaks You Down

48:19 Half Measures AA

50:02 Full Blown Cult Alanon

53:30 Connecting With AA Escapees

56:20 Drinking Moderately

1:05:36 ADHD, Dopamine, Addiction + Hobbies

1:14:39 Feeling Angry After Leaving AA

1:23:32 Cult Within A Cult + Sponsoring Yourself

1:31:18 When Your Sponsor Leaves 12 Step

👉 Deprogram Lounge (Deprogram community, courses, LIVE Q+As, Zooms, book club + more)

🧰 Escape Kit (resources to Deprogram AA)

📚 Deprogram Book List (my fave deprogram, cult recovery and critical thinking books)

🌀 Deprogram AA Course (free your mind at your own pace)

Let’s get f*cking free.