Chris Rufo is known as an anti-woke crusader.

Why?

Because as a reporter, Rufo discovered that critical race theory is being taught in schools and that some teachers are forced to take white privilege training.

For covering that, his critics say he’s a villain. The New Yorker even argues he "invented the conflict over critical race theory.”

But Rufo seems to enjoy the criticism, and now he has real power in Florida because Gov. Ron DeSantis made him a trustee of a public university.

In this podcast, I ask Rufo about that, and whether he and DeSantis are “authoritarians.”