This episode pairs artist Oscar Murillo with the editor Charles Henry Rowell for a conversation about class, race, art, and the African cultural diaspora that is one part history lesson and one part personal history. 

Murillo is short-listed for the 2019 Turner Prize and Rowell is the founder and editor of Callalloo, the longest continuously running African-American literary journal. 

The Turner Prize exhibition runs through January 12, 2020, at Turner Contemporary in Margate, UK. (The winner will be announced on December 3.) Read more about Callaloo here.