Last month marked the 25th anniversary of the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon after an 18-year guerrilla war that presaged everything we now think of as 21st-century warfare.

I spoke to Matti Friedman, veteran of Lebanon and bestselling author of a memoir from that long war, Pumpkinflowers, about the history, the lessons drawn from it and how we're seeing the continuing effects of that conflict in Gaza today.

This episode is sponsored by Julie and Frank Cohen, who believe that this podcast is a way to teach our story, because understanding our past and present is key to building a better future.

And as has become a podcast tradition, it is dedicated to Carmel Gat, an occupational therapist who was kidnapped from Kibbutz Beeri while visiting family. During the first weeks of captivity, she was held with orphaned children who had also been kidnapped. The children reported that she cared for them and taught them yoga. Carmel was murdered by her Hamas captors in August 2024 along with five other hostages.

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A podcast by Haviv Rettig Gur