Anat Matar is an Israeli academic and philosopher who is leading an open call from Israelis to have sanctions imposed on their own country.

Since Israel’s genocide in Gaza began after the events of 7 October, Matar and a few other Israelis have seen the social space around them get narrower and narrower, as mainstream Israeli society, educators, media institutions and leaders have stood behind Israel’s war. 

As we reflect in our conversation, some parts of Israeli society may differ on the tactics being used, but the vast majority stand behind the army's actions on the whole and defend or deny their country’s obvious and very visible atrocities.

This episode was recorded on 11 November 2024.

00:00 Intro

05:25 Macabe Tel Aviv slogans and Israeli media

08:30 How Israeli society justifies war crimes

11:30 What are anti-government protests in Israel all about?

16:20 The open letter to sanction Israel

20:20 What was the societal discourse like 18 months ago

24:00 Academic and social media freedoms in Israel

33:00 Situation for Palestinians who are Israeli citizens

37:40 What has happened to the media in Israel - Haaretz

41:51 Is Israel safe for you?

45:00 Anat’s early life and childhood

48:00 Oslo accords’ shortcomings and settlers

53:45 Endgame for Gantz, Lieberman and Lapid

58:30 Israel’s expansionist nature

01:03:30 Zionism’s future and normalisation

01:09:40 Will the call for sanctions work?

01:14:20 What will the legacy of the genocide be in Israel