In Romans 7:15, Paul writes: “I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.” Isn’t that so relatable? Sometimes we find ourselves getting frustrated at our loved ones, exaggerating the truth, or trying to escape a difficult situation, and we wonder what is motivating our behavior.

Today, my friend, Steve Carter, is here on the podcast to talk with us about his book, “The Thing Beneath the Thing.” In it, Steve talks about triggers, habits, and narratives that are powerfully rooted beneath the surface, how we can recognize them, and step into greater levels of wholeness.

I think this is super applicable for us perfection-ditchers, because I don’t think we really want to be perfectionists, right? We don’t want to give people pleasing power in our workplaces, friendships, and families. But those sneaky habits weave their way into normalcy. So, I think this episode will be helpful and encouraging… and I hope you pick up his book if you haven’t read it already!

Before we dive into the conversation, I want to tell you a little bit about Steve. Steve Carter is someone who I have learned from and respected for a long time. I listened to him regularly while he was the Teaching Pastor at Willow Creek. I watched him, from afar, handle difficult situations in his church with great integrity and honor.

Then, a few years ago, Steve came and spent a week with us at the church where I was serving at the time. Mike and I picked him up from the airport, took him out to lunch, and chatted for a few hours about preaching, supporting women in ministry… and of course, he and Mike chatted A LOT about the NBA. :)

Steve is the real deal. He’s authentic. He’s willing to make hard choices to stand with those on the margins. He’s one of the most incredible communicators of the Gospel I’ve ever heard. He’s quick to encourage and call out the best in others. And I am grateful to call him my friend.