With our trip to Turkey coming soon, we sit down to record this episode with Gobekli Tepe on our minds, and this leads to a discussion about the origins of civilization. What came first, the temple, or civilization? How do hunter gatherer people become farmers and ranchers?

Obviously, we don't have the answers. But we work through our thoughts in this episode, and it will be interesting to see how much we learn, and how that will change what we think now, after we see Gobekli Tepe for ourselves.