World Population Day has passed but its legacy continues! In part B of our world population day special, PGAP travels (virtually) to the USA to speak with Dave Gardner from World Population Balance and to Portugal to talk with population sustainability academic João Abegão. We are also serenaded by the song 'Let's Hang Out' by child-free comedian Jude Perl.

Dave Gardner speaks with Michael about World Population Balance's excellent campaigns during 2020 that encourage and empower people to choose smaller families. Also discussed was the launch of the World OVERpopulation Day website, GrowthBusters and Dave's great work on The Overpopulation Podcast.

João Abegão discusses the background behind the making of the Overpopulation Atlas - this is perhaps one of the most spectacular and dedicated post-grad projects ever! As one of the youngest advocates for population sustainability on, João has also addressed the UN as part of a panel discussion on population at the COP25 in Madrid. 2019., which is very impressive.

In between interviews, we play a live performance of 'Let's Hang Out' from comedian, musician and thought provoker Jude Perl. Jude performed live as part of SPA's Tough Crowd series with Australian comedian and national treasure Rod Quantock (see here). The song's clever message is very relevant to world population day - it will all make sense by the chorus!

Special Guests: Dave Gardner and João Abegão.