In this episode, Overachievers and Underachievers, we sit down with artist Justin Gradin and poet John Tottenham—two creators who dig into the absurd, the anxious, and the unpolished truths of life. From Gradin's grotesquely layered visual chaos and insomnia-fueled narratives, to Tottenham's hilariously bitter verses on failure, resentment, and reluctant ambition, this conversation explores the fine line between doing too much and doing just enough.

Both Justin and John have new books out in 2025. Checkout Justins new book on Fantagraphics Pageant. John's book Service is out on Penguin Books.