On today's episode of Speak Out with Tim Wise, Tim speaks with Jody David Armour, the Roy P. Crocker Professor of Law at the University of Southern California, and a leading expert on the intersection between race and legal decision making. They’ll discuss the ongoing relevance of a book Armour wrote over 20 years ago, concerning the way that white Americans and the larger legal system have sought to rationalize racism and discriminatory treatment of African Americans, and to normalize what Armour calls “Negrophobia.”

From Bernard Goetz in 1980s New York to George Zimmerman more recently, as well as in case after case of police-involved shootings of unarmed black folks, the rationalizing of racial prejudice and the fear of black bodies has been a constant. As Armour notes on the program, this problem is more than one of individual bias; indeed, the workings of the justice system itself — from evidentiary standards to the “reasonable person” standard of analysis in jury instructions — virtually ensure the enshrining of Negrophobia in law and custom.

Wise and Armour will also explore the way Negrophobia can affect the thinking of black Americans, often leading to an internalized bias against other black folks, especially along lines of socioeconomic status. And finally, they’ll examine possible ways to move the national narrative on crime and violence away from irrational fear, hatred and a thirst for revenge, towards more restorative and redemptive practices and policies.