Over the weekend, President Donald Trump ordered up the National Guard to deal with violence that broke out in Los Angeles amid protests of Trump’s immigration policies. This has angered California Governor Gavin Newsom, who is suing to stop it. But then Trump expressly told reporters that he might send the Marines into California. He also openly endorsed the idea that federal law enforcement should arrest Newsom based on zero legal basis. Taken together, those moves show Trump’s perpetual threat to unleash troops on Americans getting much darker and more unnerving. We talked to former federal prosecutor Barbara McQuade, author of the book Attack from Within: How Disinformation is Sabotaging America. She explains why Trump’s moves are increasingly lawless, how this is all posing a severe test to our system, and ponders whether we’re passing that test—or failing it. 

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Fox News hosts have gotten very aggressive in pinning down Trump officials over the failures of Trump’s trade agenda. Stuart Varney sharply questioned a top official over the loss of manufacturing jobs in the latest jobs report, and Maria Bartiromo usefully prodded a second official over the failure to produce trade deals. Taken together, these constitute a surprise admission that the latest machinations involving Trump’s tariffs reveal that they aren’t coming close to having their advertised effects. Meanwhile, an extraordinary Washington Post report reveals that administration officials are scrambling to reverse large numbers of firings under Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency, another serious admission of what a fiasco DOGE remains. On today’s episode, economist Kathryn Edwards usefully explains how all these developments reveal a deeper set of failings driving Trump’s vision and worldview, possibly putting us on a slow drift toward recession. 

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As you’ve surely heard, the feud between Donald Trump and Elon Musk has erupted, with the two men trading attacks on each other for hours. As of this recording, the last big things to happen are that Trump threatened to cut off all government contracts to Musk’s companies, and Musk then dropped what he called a “big bomb”—that Trump is in the "Epstein files." Former GOP strategist and Never Trumper Rick Wilson grasps the inner pathologies of MAGA like no one else, so we talked to Wilson about the latest Trump-Musk madness. He offers a counterintuitive take on why Musk’s attacks on Trump will trigger MAGA’s paranoid obsessions in an unexpectedly explosive way, why he thinks Musk has more weapons in this battle than Trump does, and why the White House has almost certainly entered into a “full panic” about where this is all going.

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President Donald Trump appears to have finally turned on Elon Musk over his scalding criticism of the “big, beautiful bill.” At a presser, House Speaker Mike Johnson revealed that Trump told him he’s displeased with Musk, which almost certainly wouldn’t have happened unless Trump authorized it, confirming Trump’s anger at Musk is serious. Meanwhile, the Congressional Budget Office just released brutal numbers showing that the House GOP bill will add even more to the deficit and kick many more people off health coverage than previously thought. We talked to Danielle Deiseroth, executive director of Data for Progress, which just released interesting new polling on the GOP bill. She explains why the bill could grow more toxic with the public, why the Trump-Musk rift and CBO score could help penetrate with voters, and why Democrats should act as if this is a debate they can win.

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President Trump has been tweeting wildly and angrily over the fate of his “big, beautiful bill.” He’s been lashing out furiously at Democrats and at GOP Senators alike over their opposition, suggesting Senate passage may be in serious doubt. Then Elon Musk threw a grenade into the proceedings, unleashing a pair of tweets that ripped the bill as a “disgusting abomination” that will explode the deficit by trillions of dollars. Amusingly, Musk was being dishonest in his own way, but he still upended the scam that Trump and House Speaker Mike Johnson have concocted to sell this bill. We unraveled all this with New Republic senior editor Alex Shephard, author of a new piece arguing that Musk’s damage is only beginning. He explains how all this fits into the 50-year story of Republicans gutting programs for the poor to make the rich richer.

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President Trump really wants the Senate to pass the “big beautiful bill” that has now gotten through the House. But a number of GOP Senators are, for now, speaking uncomfortable truths about that massive budget measure: It would balloon the deficit and slash spending on the poor and working class, largely to fund a massive tax cut for the wealthy. And right on cue, White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt just delivered two ugly rants on Fox News that expose how this ruse works. One of them threatens GOP senators who oppose the bill. The other monumentally misleads about its fiscal impact. We talked to Paul Waldman, co-author of White Rural Rage and a regular chronicler of how badly Trump-GOP policies harm Republican voters. He explains the real aims of the broader Trump project, how it victimizes MAGA country, and why Republicans might struggle to pull off their usual scam this time around.

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Ming Lee Hui, who goes by the name of “Carol,” has lived for 20 years in the town of Kennett, Missouri after coming here from Hong Kong. She has been raising a family there and works as a waitress, and as The New York Times reports in a piece featuring quotes from Carol and many locals, she’s well liked in the community. But Carol was recently arrested and now faces potential deportation. This has shocked and dismayed many of the town’s residents, even though the area went overwhelmingly for Trump. Carol talked to us on the podcast straight from jail, where she is awaiting her fate. At times the conversation was difficult: She broke down in tears about her ordeal, was emotionally overwhelmed at the support she’s received from the Trump-backing town, and offers wrenching thoughts about Trump’s effort to deport countless others just like her. 

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President Donald Trump’s advisers are raging over a court ruling that temporarily blocked many of Trump’s tariffs. Stephen Miller called it “judicial tyranny.” Another top adviser called the judges “globalist.” And press secretary Karoline Leavitt seethed that “unelected judges” have grown “dangerous.” While an appeals court did put a stay on the court ruling, letting the tariffs proceed for now, it’s now overwhelmingly clear the tariffs are extremely vulnerable legally, and the whiplash in the courts only underscores what a fiasco of uncertainty Trump unleashed. Our trading partners now think their hand has been strengthened in trade talks, revealing more weakness. We talked to George Mason University’s Ilya Somin, a lead lawyer for the challengers, about why the ruling is crushing for Trump’s case, what it reveals about his broader abuses of power, and how he still can be stopped. 

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In a series of rants to reporters, President Trump’s rage at Harvard took a sadistic and unhinged turn. He made it clear that only total subjugation to him on Harvard’s part will satisfy him. This comes as a judge just blocked another one of his executive orders aimed at grinding a major law firm into submission, a big setback to Trump in a string of legal losses on that front. In today’s episode, Katherine Stewart, a sharp observer of MAGA who has a new piece on her Substack about the Harvard catastrophe, explains that these things are connected: Trump’s attacks on Harvard and other institutions are about creating the deliberate impression that we’re sliding into lawlessness and terror, so victories like that one in court are a crucial reminder that we still do have the rule of law. Stewart explains why keeping alive this idea is so essential, why Trump is counting on you to lose sight of it, and what must happen now. 

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In a series of public remarks, President Trump has lashed out at Vladimir Putin for keeping up his attacks on Ukraine in defiance of Trump’s stated desire for peace. Trump has called Putin “crazy,” has admitted he has no idea what Putin is thinking, and has even tweeted that Putin is “playing with fire!” Trump is plainly feeling embarrassed by Putin—who has only escalated his attacks amid Trump’s peacekeeping efforts—and his humiliation shines through in his recent eruptions, given his campaign vow to end the war quickly due to his toughness and better relations with the Russian leader. Meanwhile, Republicans are now beginning to demand tougher sanctions on Putin, which would constitute another break with Trump—and a tacit admission that his efforts are failing. We talked to Cathy Young, a staff writer at The Bulwark who regularly analyzes Trump-Putin dynamics. She explains what Trump doesn’t understand about Putin, how this leaves Trump badly unsuited for this moment, and why the long-term prospects for the war are pretty grim. 

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