On today’s episode, I speak with Dr. David Campt, racial dialogue facilitator, educator, and creator of the new White Ally Toolkit Workbook, which aims to provide white folks with the rhetorical and practical tools they need to engage other whites around issues of racial equity.

At a time of increasing political and racial division, the importance of white progressives and so-called “woke” folks knowing how to speak to (and with) those whose awareness of race issues is limited—or who steadfastly repel from the idea that racism is really an issue of importance at all—has never been greater. In their conversation, David and Tim explore why it’s so hard for some white progressives to speak to conservatives about these issues, why its important to figure out a way to do so, and what rhetorical and narrative tools are most effective for the purpose of ratcheting down partisan and ideological hostility, while possibly building bridges across philosophical divides.

So whether you’re interested in facilitating large scale group dialogues at your school, your place of worship or in your community, or just looking for practical advice about how to speak to that difficult family member at Thanksgiving, this is an episode you don’t want to miss.