Matt Ortile is the managing editor of Catapult. His writing has been published by BuzzFeed, Into, Self, and Out, among others. He lives in Brooklyn.

This episode is sponsored by Penguin Random House Audio. Stay on top of your book club reading with audiobooks such as The Nickel Boys by Colson Whitehead, Brit Bennett’s The Vanishing Half, Elizabeth Kay’s Seven Lies, A Burning by Megha Majumdar, and much more. These titles are available wherever audiobooks are sold.

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