Eric Ries wrote The Lean Startup. Sold 2 million copies. Helped hundreds of people build companies from nothing. Now he's back with a harder question: why do so many of those companies eventually go bad?

In this episode, Matt Watson sits down with Eric to talk about his new book Incorruptible—a deep dive into the invisible forces that corrupt organizations, why profit-maximization becomes pathological, and what it actually takes to build a company that stays great.

They get into why the stage-gate development model keeps failing founders, the story of Saul Price and how Costco was born from a betrayal, and what a real fiduciary duty to your customer looks like in practice. Plus, how to structure your company so your values outlast you.

Listen to the full episode on Startup Hustle. And if Incorruptible sounds like your next read, pre-order it at incorruptible.co before May 26th.

00:37 Introduction to Eric Ries and The Lean Startup

06:57 The Journey to Incorruptible: A New Perspective

12:38 The Challenge of Short-Term Thinking in Business

16:14 Understanding Corruption in Business Practices

22:51 Building Trustworthy Organizations

31:03 Who Should Read Incorruptible?

Connect with Eric Ries on LinkedIn

What Smart CTOs Are Doing Differently With Offshore Teams in 2025

Subscribe to the Global Talent Sprint

Full Scale – Build your dev team quickly and affordably

If you’re trying to get your team out of the basement and into real product ownership, this episode is your playbook. Stop being a ticket factory. Build teams that think, create, and lead.

Follow the show, rate it, and send this to someone who’s still trying to do “real Scrum.” They need it more than you do.