Today we are revisiting an October 2023 Berkeley Talks episode in which Ezra Klein, a New York Times columnist and host of the podcast The Ezra Klein Show, discusses the difficulties liberal governments encounter when working to build real things in the real world. He joins in a conversation with Amy Lerman, a UC Berkeley political scientist and director of the Possibility Lab.

“To have the future we want, we need to build and invent more of the things that we need,” begins Klein, who has since published the 2025 book Abundance with co-author Derek Thompson. “It’s so stupidly simple, so obvious, that it seems weird there could be any need to write articles or podcasts or truly, God forbid, a book about it.” 

“And yet,” he continues, “the story of America in the 21st century — more than that, the story of liberalism, and particularly California liberalism — is a story of chosen scarcity.” 

Klein argues that while liberal governments are ambitious in their aims, like addressing climate change, building affordable housing or expanding infrastructure, they are often hampered by the very procedural safeguards and checks designed to protect rights and ensure public input.

There are things, he says, that we have an abundance of now — flat screen TVs, iPhones — but we need more of the things that will make real the world in which many of us want to live: “A world where we’re not cooking the planet, a world where a firefighter who works to keep San Francisco from burning down can live in the city he works on the daily to save, a world where there is access to the medical care and medications that people need. I care about working backwards from the world I want to the things we need to get there.”

This event took place on Oct. 5, 2023, in UC Berkeley’s Zellerbach Hall. It was co-presented by Cal Performances and UC Berkeley Graduate Lectures as part of the Jefferson Memorial Lecture Series.

Watch a video of the event on the Graduate Lectures website.

Listen to the episode and read the transcript on UC Berkeley News (news.berkeley.edu/podcasts).

Music by HoliznaCC0.

Photo by Lucas Foglia.

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