Fall of Roe

Today's show is the first of many State of Roe minisodes, where Chris will tackle the status of abortion rights on a state by state basis. The first to find itself in the spotlight is Chris' own home state of Washington, which legally enshrined abortion even before Roe v. Wade, and which may prove to be a hotbed for travelers from out of state should Roe fall.

Resources:

Fall of Roe Homepage

Status: Washington State is safe, a “Haven” state

Political Climate: Friendly, Governor Jay Inslee is committed to defending Reproductive Choice.

Providers: Many, and well qualified.

For Planned Parenthood sites, go to PlannedParenthood.org or call 1 800 240 PLAN

For other well qualified Providers consult Ineedana.com

Funding: Insurance companies cover abortion in Washington State policies.

Those covered by Apple Care plans and Medicare are also covered.

For those without coverage, contact the Northwest Abortion Access Fund at https://nwaafund.org, or the provider of your choice for assistance.

Always remember, you are not alone.

Today on the Fall of Roe podcast, Chris meets with Valerie Tarico, a reformed fundamentalist and author, to talk about right-wing hypocrisy in the fight for the right to an abortion. As an ex-member of the Evangelical church, Valerie is very familiar with the blame game, in that people are quick to judge others but make exceptions for themselves. Republicans fight for less gun control and fewer mask mandates, but when it comes to female rights to an abortion, it’s no longer acceptable. From the notion of abortion being explicitly mentioned in the Bible to information about spontaneous abortions, Valerie provides examples of moral Evangelical contradictions here today.

Together, she and Chris go on to discuss the polarization and isolation of far right and fundamentalist groups. This debate about abortion, however, ultimately begs questions we’ve been asking for centuries about definitions of personhood and the inherent value of human DNA. After all, the fight for control over women has existed since the Iron Age. Valerie closes out the episode on a hopeful note by thanking the generations of women before her that fought the good fight for the sake of progress.

The Finer Details of This Episode:

• The blame game
• Pro-life hypocrisy
• Abortion in the Bible
• Spontaneous abortions
• Moral Evangelical contradictions
• Traditional examples of female fights for control
• Ostracism
• Pinning hopes on human DNA
• Attributes of personhood
• Other political fights for control (gun laws, COVID mask mandates, etc.)

Quotes:

“So my background, as you pointed out, is in Evangelical Fundamentalism. I attended Billy Graham's alma mater, Wheaton College, by choice and actually found it to be more theologically diverse and liberal than the church I grew up in. I also went on to get a PhD in counseling psychology. So the intersection of those two things leave me not at all surprised about the way that people are able to compartmentalize different aspects of who they are and their values and make exceptions for themselves that they don't make for other people.”

“You know, there are people who get married on a whim in Las Vegas, right? There probably are people who have abortions on a whim, but that is not the majority case.”

“Can you honest to God call yourself pro-life if you just threaten the life of a walking around living person?”

“In the United States, something like 70% of women who have abortions, they self identify as Christian. But within that, a significant percent belong to mainline Christian denominations, not evangelicals, not Catholics.”

“I accepted Jesus as my personal Savior probably several times during childhood just to be safe, because Hell was a scary place. By my own choice. I went to Wheaton College of Billy Graham fame. But even while I was there, I was struggling to hold together the rational and moral contradictions within evangelicalism.”

“It all just sounded like so many rationalizations and justifications; they were making excuses for God. I finally got to the point where I said, ‘I'm not making excuses for you anymore.’”

“They are convinced they're being compassionate towards women, because they only hear the stories of abortion regret.”

"The Bible that talks about sexual intimacy and pleasure as one of humanity's most treasured cherished experiences right, apart from this question of procreation. And so… when you talk about people being able to live their best lives, that very often gets left out of the equation and or cheapened.”

“When young evangelicals are having sex, they're more likely to not think about it ahead of time, because they feel guilty. It's better to kind of commit spontaneous unexpected sin than premeditated sin.”

“Because of that, just like in small cults, the smaller, the more countercultural it is, the more they have to come up with these ways of structuring their own society, kind of being standoffish, creating a set of rules that keep people apart from the world outside, and one of those is getting married young.”

“The Bible has human handprints all over it. You can see kind of how it was formulated if you look closely, and it is clearly man making God in the image of man.”

"We can do way better. We just know a lot more. We've got the privilege of kind of having had generations of folks kind of participating in this struggle before us.”

Links: 

Fall of Roe Homepage

Valerie Tarico Homepage

Today Chris Charbonneau is joined by Sarah Stoesz, a longtime friend and a brilliant strategist for Planned Parenthood.  The pair open up today’s episode by talking about the invalidation of the Roe V. Wade case that’s taking place in front of our very eyes.  As this fight continues and more and more women are getting discouraged by the future of abortion, the search for long term contraceptives at an all time high.  And while, yes, Roe V. Wade doesn’t exactly promise healthcare everywhere in the U.S., the reality of a country without it is frightening.  Republicans spread lies about the realities of life both with and without abortion.  Sarah goes on to talk about her work in Minnesota, North and South Dakota, Iowa, and Nebraska as a strategist at Planned Parenthood as well as her experience with the Republican adoption myth: that adoption is a better option than abortion.  

We see that this couldn’t be further from the truth in the wake of the tragic Uvalde school shooting.  Politicians care for these Kindergarten children no more than what it takes to share a few thoughts and prayers.  Much less do they care for the BIPOC who will be most affected by the decision to deny women the right to abortion. That’s what makes this fight so important, but burnout is very real, and after fighting the same fight for decades, it’s no surprise that even the brightest of trailblazers fizzle out.  Chris and Sarah draw this episode to a close by talking about the value of stories and testimonials since abortion doesn’t just affect the woman having one. It affects her friends, her family, her partner, etc., so the more we share our truths, the more powerful the movement gets and the less likely we are to suffer from burnout.  This becomes all the more vital, especially, as you will hear today, when the other side spreads nothing but lies and propaganda.

The Finer Details of This Episode: 

• The invalidation of Roe
• The search for long lasting contraceptives
• Why Roe isn’t all encompassing
• Working in Minnesota, North and South Dakota, Iowa, and Nebraska
• The adoption myth
• The tragic irony of the Uvalde school shooting
• Life after Roe for BIPOC
• Fighting for control
• Burnout
• The value of stories
• Spreading lies 

Quotes: 

“The low income folks and people of color are people who already have been discriminated against in the health care system in one way or the other. It impacts absolutely everybody and if anyone thinks they're sitting in a safe chair with this, they are dead wrong.”

“There was a legislator there who actually said that treating a woman with a tubal pregnancy would be the same as killing a baby.”

“In Nebraska, the governor has vowed to call a special session to ban abortion should Roe fall by the Supreme Court.”

“We are going to do everything possible to help women travel from unsafe parts of the country to safe parts of the country.”

“It's so cruel, because they actually do damage to people. It doesn't stop a woman from having an abortion that she needs, but it can damage her. It's traumatizing for her, not to mention her children.”

“There are 19 Kids in an elementary school that were alive yesterday that are dead today. And, and we get nothing but thoughts and prayers from those folks that, if they cared about children, they would care about the ones in kindergarten too.”

“The fall of Roe will drive up the birth rate among BIPOC people who are already disadvantaged economically and will have an even harder time getting abortions.”

“One story was: I was pregnant. I came to Planned Parenthood, you know, thinking that I needed counseling about abortion. And the more that they talked to me about all of my options, the more I thought, ‘Well, maybe I might want to keep this baby.’ And you all encouraged me to do what was right for me. And I did. I kept the baby.”

“Abortion stories aren't just the stories of the people having the abortion. They are the stories of everybody around them, too.”

“I don't see how they make us all feel shame about something that we all know is such an unmitigated good.”

Links: 

Fall of Roe Homepage

Planned Parenthood

Alexander Sanger joins Chris Charbonneau on yet another episode of the Fall of Roe podcast.  The grandson of Margaret Sanger, founder of the birth control movement and Planned Parenthood, he illustrates what New York looked like before abortion became legalized. He remembers there being a rather bipartisan stance on abortion before 1970, how therapeutic abortion was legalized in New York and, and the conditions under which abortion became one of the main forms of organized crime.  Chris and Alexander both come to the conclusion, however, that, despite how frightening a future without legalized abortion is, there is an arc towards justice.  

Take the Green Wave for example, where women across Latin America are bravely standing up for their right to choose.  And here in the U.S., women are obviously doing the same.  With more and more Republicans secretly adhering to the Replacement theory, it makes it all the more important to do so.  Alexander goes on to talk about his grandmother and the exceptional work she did as an activist for birth control and founding Planned Parenthood.  The pair closes out the episode by talking about the importance of birth control and reversible contraceptive methods, summing up with the warning that, if our country isn’t going to protect young women, then young women need to start protecting themselves. 

The Finer Details of This Episode: 

• New York before Roe V. Wade
• Bipartisan stance for therapeutic abortion pre-1970
• Abortion as organized crime
• The Green Wave 
• The arc towards justice
• Romania’s abortion and contraceptive ban
• Replacement theory
• The legacy of Margaret Sanger
• The importance of reversible contraception

Quotes:

“Alex is a longtime colleague of mine in the reproductive health and rights movement, and has a family legacy: grandmother, Margaret, who was one of the founders of Planned Parenthood.”

“New York before 1970 permitted therapeutic abortion. There was a system in New York that if you got doctors to certify that the mental, physical health, or emotional health of the woman would be adversely impacted by pregnancy and giving birth, then a legal abortion could be done.”

“Abortion was about the third or fourth top money earner for organized crime back then.”

“They emulate our movies and our music.  One would hope it would stop there. Maybe they would emulate the good parts of our democracy, not the bad parts. We are worried about a ripple effect.”

“Martin Luther King says the arc is towards justice. Well, it is; it's toward the rights of women, autonomy of women, and the government keeping out of our most private and intimate decisions. So it will come back… As we know prohibition never works.”

“While everyone knew racism was wrong, I think your grandmother actually tried to do a fair amount of work that was inclusive, regardless of who all she met with and what standards they held.”

“She went into the eugenics world because she back then was looking for credibility. Birth control was illegal, and she was trying to get support from the establishment to decriminalize birth control.”

“She believed every woman had the right to have access to birth control and education, and to have it be publicly funded. That was her split from the New Deal, because Roosevelt wouldn't put birth control in the New Deal as part of health funding.”

“I think we all understand around the globe that at a certain age people become sexual beings. And without contraception, they become parents.”

“Everyone of childbearing age, get yourself a really good effective long acting, reversible contraceptive method. Make sure you're not a statistic.  Make sure you're opening up space in clinics for people who have dire things going on to be cared for and aid access.”

Links: 

Fall of Roe Homepage

Alexander Sanger's Website

Alexander Sanger on Twitter

Chris Charbonneau welcomes lawyer and activist, Roberta Riley, to yet another episode of the Fall of Roe podcast.  The pair open up the conversation by talking about the rise of fundamentalism in the U.S., and how banning abortions is their means to attack women and their autonomy.  Even though abortion is not yet nationally banned, travel bans and vigilante groups try to prevent women from crossing borders to receive prenatal health care.  Similarly, minorities and disadvantaged groups like Native Americans tend to lack access to nearby facilities.  

Roberta and Chris go on to to discuss the lack of sexual regulation for men and the realities of adoption.  More often than not, women face a lot of stigma when giving up children for adoption, so forcing women into that decision would be rather inhumane.  The pair of women attribute a lot of misinformation campaigns and drive for a national abortion ban to religious influences, and that nowadays that influence may be more Evangelical than the traditional Catholicism. Above all else, and as a fitting conclusion to this episode, Roberta brings up the importance of women running for office.  We’ve come to a point in this country when we, at the very least, need public officials that value reproductive health and family planning.  

The Finer Details of This Episode: 

• Fundamentalism in the U.S.
• Why banning abortion is an attack on women
• Travel bans and vigilantes preventing cross border travel
• Remembering that native Americans tend to lack access
• Why abortion is a state decision
• The Federal Equal Rights Amendment
• The lack of sexual regulation for men
• Attacking the provision of abortion medication
• The stigma around giving children up for adoption
• Griswold V. Connecticut
• Religious influences
• Dealing with misinformation campaigns
• Women running for public office

Quotes: 

“Why isn’t it sex discrimination for insurance companies to refuse to cover birth control when they cover everything else that men might need.”

“Back when the Constitution was enacted, women couldn't hold jobs, they couldn't have bank accounts, they couldn't own property. And they were not fully human.”

“The three justices who kind of cemented this ultra conservative originalist majority were appointed by a president who lost the general election, and they were confirmed by a bunch of US senators who represent far, far, far less than half of all Americans.”

“It's time for women to start running for office, start running for county, state and federal office in droves. And we've already had large, large influxes of women doing that in recent elections, but we need even more, and we need to get people elected who are going to stand up for women and their rights.”

“One guy said to us, you know, ‘Don't tell my wife I sponsored this thing because like, I won't get fed any Thanksgiving dinner’.”

“I'm making the strong case that contraception and family planning are essential to women's health. And without contraception, the average woman's going to get pregnant 12 to 15 times in her life.”

“If you were deciding to give that child up, you know, that would be the single most profound moment of your life.”

“I actually think we're seeing a bit of ascendancy in non-Catholicism dominating the discussion around reproductive health, but evangelical Christianity–more of the fascist side of the evangelical Christian movement -  sort of deciding what is acceptable for the public.”

“Griswold V. Connecticut was decided in the early 1960s, in which the Supreme Court held that married couples have a right to use birth control and privacy.”

“The Catholic Church owns a huge amount of medical facilities and hospitals in our country and throughout the world. And as long as the Catholic health directives forbid birth control, sterilization, and abortion, there will be cruelties that will be inflicted on women.”

Links: 

Fall of Roe Homepage

​​Roberta Riley on MomsRising

On this second episode of the Fall of Roe, Chris Charbonneau is joined by Cecile Richards, former president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, present community organizer, proud supporter of Beto O’Rourke, and a former First Daughter of Texas.  The pair open the conversation talking about what it may look like when one has no control over their own pregnancy.  Women are not only isolated and left with little to no hope, but they are also forced to resort to unsafe abortion methods.  After all, abortion doesn’t stop just because it’s deemed illegal, it merely becomes more dangerous.  We already see this taking place in Texas: a state that is already experiencing fallout across the Mexican border from individuals seeking cheaper, more accessible healthcare.  

The pair go on to discuss the possibility of a nationwide ban on abortions and how the Republicans are lying to the American public to make that happen.  To ensure a safer future with legal abortions, Cecile urges the younger audience to start taking part in the fight; they’re the strongest and most passionate force we have.  She also notes that it’s important to share abortion stories and awaken others to the importance of abortion and prenatal healthcare. Above all else, though, she believes in the power of the ballot. That’s why she’s working with Beto O’Rourke in Texas to help secure his bid and a future for safe, legal abortion in the state of Texas.  

The Finer Details of This Episode: 

• What it looks like when you don’t have control over your pregnancy
• The isolation of women by the Supreme Court
• Fallout across the Mexican border
• Republicans lying to the American public
• The possibility of a future nationwide ban on abortions
• The importance of sharing stories
• The power of young people 
• The state of affairs in Texas (Abbott v. Beto)
• Abortion will always take place

Quotes:

“Millions of people have never lived in a country where abortion was illegal completely.”

“I think that what is the dynamic we're looking at here is people who really never thought about this issue, because they didn't have to, are now grappling with what this means for themselves, their community, their students, their daughters, their sons, their, you know, you name it. And that is an unpredictable element in these midterm elections.”

“It's not just that travel is a challenge for many people. It's an impossibility.”

“And now we're seeing American corporations beginning to talk about how they're going to exfiltrate their key employees into Safe States for health care. It's like, really America, are we going to have this conversation about exfiltrating people without having the conversation about how this should not become policy?”

“Keep in mind, everybody, women are not mentioned in the Constitution.  Nothing that we need is in the Constitution. That wasn't who was writing the Constitution at the time. And so, you know, this is dangerous on so many levels.”

“I think if Cecile and I can illustrate anything, it’s like: be afraid right now and do everything in your power to prevent where we are.”

“I think, for older women, like myself, this is an issue that I've fought on my whole life, but where the energy and the leadership is going to come from is young people who just lost a right that they never even knew could be taken from them.”

“Your state legislatures need to know that they don't get to do this where you live without hearing from you.”

“The people, of course, that are bearing the brunt of this right now in the state of Texas are women with low incomes, women who live in rural small town Texas who don't have the resources and the access to patient navigators, black women, brown women, and women who have least access to healthcare in the state of Texas.”

‘Mississippi is the poorest state in the country, and their maternal mortality rate is twice the national average.”

“So don’t tell me these folks care about babies, care about women. They don’t. They care about politics and that’s all this is about. We have to do more to point out that the same people who are voting to ban abortion have done everything in their power to keep people from having affordable healthcare access, to addressing maternal mortality rates, to addressing programs that help alleviate poverty among children and families. So they just can’t have it both ways.”

Links: 

Fall of Roe Homepage

Cecile Richards on Instagram

Cecile Richards on Twitter

On the introductory episode of The Fall of Roe podcast, Chris Charbonneau compares and contrasts life before and after Roe and paints a vivid picture of what a future without legal abortion might look like.  She opens up the episode by recalling the first time she was confronted by women’s lack of equality, and recounting her experience at a Pro Choice march in the ‘90s where doctors walking alongside her educated her on the horror show that were hospitals before Roe V. Wade. They explained exactly why that decision made young women’s lives safer and more fair, detailing dangerous procedures taking place when abortions were illegal.  

Despite the fact that abortions had been deemed unlawful, they, of course, still took place, just in a far more dangerous manner. Women in states where abortion was illegal would hop on charter buses to states where it wasn’t.  Abortions at this time were hardly accessible costing a steep $2000.  Charbonneau states that even those living in rural areas when Roe was upheld didn’t even have clinics within driving distance.  Given a similar fate that awaits us, she deems birth control and the use of contraceptives extremely important, and she draws this episode to a close by urging the audience to hold politicians accountable and by fighting for more ‘blue’.  After all, it’s the Republican majority that intentionally got us into this mess in the first place. Join Chris today for a powerful premier episode of this vitally important podcast.

The Finer Details of This Episode: 

• Women getting the right vote in Switzerland in 1971
• Dangerous procedures taking place when abortion was illegal
• Chartering women to states with legal abortion
• Abortions will always happen
• Lack of rural access
• The importance of birth control and contraceptives
• Accountability 
• Voting blue

Quotes: 

“I realized that women had a lot of work to do to make sure that our place in society was secure.”

“There are a variety of states that claim fame, and rightly so, by having been out front before Roe to change these laws, because these laws were horrific and had absolutely horrific consequences.”

“Many ended up in situations where they could never have children again, many were in pain for the rest of their lives, and many died.”

“A great many people had abortions, and they probably turned out fine because nobody ever knew about it, but it's estimated that some 50,000 women died from illegal abortions over time in the United States.”

“In order to end a pregnancy, people famously used coat hangers, they famously used knitting needles. You know, not a lot of people know enough about their anatomy to do that kind of thing successfully.”

“The American public is outrageously pro choice. They don't want changes made to Roe. A good 75% of them say so over and over again when asked.”

“We discovered that in many rural places, access had become so bad that we actually had a fair number of woman that felt that they had no other choice but to do their own abortion.”

“We need to ensure that the people who have created this situation ultimately get defeated at the polls.”

“You aren't going to be able to recruit talent into these [red] states. because either they are executives who fear for their own reproductive health, or they're people who have children that they fear for.”

“But when the Supreme Court goes down, it means that we no longer have the courts to rely on to protect us. It's going to have to be state by state and our politics.”

“So be thinking about who needs to be elected, where and what we are all going to do to make that happen, because we cannot afford to have a right wing Congress overturn the last remnants of safety everywhere in the country.”

Links: 

Fall of Roe Homepage

The Fall of Roe Podcast is hosted by a forty- year veteran of the service-provision side of abortion rights. Chris Charbonneau caps her career as Planned Parenthood’s longest serving CEO with her new stint; guiding us through what is happening on the ground to people seeking abortion care as Roe falls. She interviews movement colleagues throughout the Country, and clarifies the implications of the looming (and actual) disaster unfolding in the USA, not from a legal perspective, but explores the human toll.