Show Notes

What if I told you that one of the most talented designers I know has a pre-presentation ritual that involves brushing his teeth?

Not for hygiene reasons (well, not only for hygiene). But as a way to feel prepared, present, and ready to unveil work he's poured himself into.

Meet Jose Ocando—a staff brand designer at Webflow who calls himself a "failed copywriter." After working with him for nearly five years, I can tell you he's anything but failed. He's the kind of designer who'll spend five hours perfecting a single button interaction, not because he's obsessive, but because he understands that luxury lives in the details people feel but can't name.

Jose was my first guest on Final Final, and our conversation revealed the beautifully neurotic world of creative work—the weird habits, unexpected inspirations, and honest truths about what it takes to make something great.

Highlights

* Literature as Design Foundation: How Jose's English degree and love of storytelling inform his approach to visual design through metaphor and narrative

* Data as Collaborator: Why treating analytics as a team member rather than a manager leads to better creative decisions

* Expressive Minimalism: Jose's evolved design philosophy that balances restraint with personality

* The Award Paradox: Honest insights about seeking recognition in the design industry and what drives creative excellence

* Neurotic Habits That Work: The surprising rituals that help creatives perform their best work

* Agency vs In-House: How moving from agency to in-house design changes collaboration, process, and creative approach

Meet Jose

Jose Ocando is a staff brand designer at Webflow with 12 years of experience in the design industry. Previously, he worked at Whiteboard creative agency and Aspect, where he led award-winning projects including the Webby-nominated Whiteboard website and the award-winning Aura site. Jose brings a unique perspective to design through his background in literature and his philosophy of "expressive minimalism."

Timestamps

* 00:45 - Jose's background and the "failed copywriter" origin story

* 01:58 - How literature informs design through metaphor and narrative

* 03:06 - Finding inspiration from other makers and craftspeople

* 05:12 - The difference between early career input needs vs. senior motivation

* 07:24 - Looking back at award-winning work with fresh perspective

* 10:44 - The honest truth about seeking awards in design

* 14:43 - Agency vs in-house: How the creative process changes

* 18:31 - Data as collaborator: The tab component revelation

* 22:44 - Long-haul team collaboration strategies

* 24:22 - Neurotic habits: The teeth-brushing pre-presentation ritual

* 26:23 - Creative flow state techniques and rituals

* 30:00 - The five-hour button: Investing in micro-interactions

* 31:16 - The bedtime screenshot review habit

* 32:40 - Putting design intuition into words

* 35:51 - Future fears and excitement about design leadership

Resources Mentioned

* "The Covenant of Water" by Abraham Varghese - Book that inspired Jose's creative energy

* My Mechanics YouTube Channel - Restoration videos that inspire craftsmanship approach

* Radiohead - Specific songs for development focus sessions

* Chris Do/The Futur - Teaching philosophy about articulating design decisions

* RISD - Referenced in context of design education and critique

Final Final is presented by Whiteboard, the leading creative partner for visionary leaders and brands.

I've always been fascinated by the creative process—not just the finished product, but the winding journey behind it. The false starts. The breakthroughs. The weird, unexpected detours that end up mattering way more than you thought they would.

Final Final is a podcast about creative work and the work behind it.

I'm your host, Nick Blackmon, and for the last decade, I've worked at Whiteboard, an award-winning creative agency behind the campaigns and creative for brands like TED, Pandora, and Moon Pie.

Along the way, I've found myself in so many conversations with friends, coworkers, and collaborators—exploring their winding career paths, creative ruts, big wins, and the hard lessons they’ve learned along the way.

In each episode  , I'll sit down with designers, animators, filmmakers, and other creatives— to explore how they got to where they are and how they keep going.

We'll unpack their journeys and creative processes—the moments, methods, and mindsets that shape their careers and crafts. 

You'll hear some stories that may surprise you and some that feel wildly relatable.

We’ll talk about how they deal with creative blocks, how they pitch and present their work, and what habits help them push past hating everything they’ve made, to reach   something they love—or at least hate a little less.

So,  If you’re navigating your own creative path or trying to level up your craft, this show is for you.