Final Surge Podcast

Endurance Nation coaches over 600 athletes. Today we talk to founder Patrick McCrann about his online community which has helped 16 people qualify for Kona World Championships this year. We talk about the community, his use of Stryd Power Meters and more.

How did you get started?

• Rower at BU in early to mid 90's
• Left school to join Peace Corps and took up running while in Asia
• Brother did Ironman and lead me to try it and first Ironman in 2001

What type of early success did you have when you started Ironmans

• 10:43 in first Ironman Florida
• Became harder after the first one because started overthinking

Did you qualify early for Kona?

• 5 years and 8 Ironman races before qualified
• Took a while to figure out the execution
• Doing Kona again this year
• 9th Kona

What did you do with your training that made the difference to qualify?

• Building a schedule where could be consistent with training
• Learning from the training log

How do you balance the time between training time and family?

• Wife supportive and also trains
• Build a training space in the garage
• Flexibility with a training plan to adjust

2001 you did your first Ironman, 2006 was your first Kona, when did you start coaching?

• 2004 friends asked me for help
• Early on started having success and created own company
• 2007 turned it into Endurance Nation

What is Endurance Nation?

• Team of self-coached athletes
• We give you keys to all the training plans and resources
• A community that shares ideas, successes, and failures
• 500-650 athletes at any given time

Athletes spread out throughout the world, yet you talk about community a lot, how does that work?

• Forums - 10 years old with huge amounts of info
• Social wall like a Facebook group

Is your community for someone more experienced or new athlete?

• For anyone looking to get better
• Save time to reach goals

How much are you using Power Meters?

• Been using Stryd's for a whlie
• Good number to watch that gives instant feedback

What do you mean by run durability?

• Running most injury prone
• Run less per day but run more days per week to get the volume you desire

Many athletes are getting into their final weeks before their big fall race, what do you work on to get them ready for their race and tapering?

• Race preparation workouts
• Tapering is more personal per each runner
• Rest a little on the early side a few weeks out

Endurancenation.us/start

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute

Favorite endurance/running book? - Eat and Run Current trainers you are wearing? - Hoka One One Clifton 4 Favorite race? - Boston and trail races Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Ascent Protein Your favorite workout - Long Run

Resources Endurance Nation Facebook https://www.facebook.com/endurancenation Endurance Nation Instagram https://www.instagram.com/teamendurancenation/ Endurance Nation Website https://www.endurancenation.us/start/ Stryd Power Meter

In 2012 ESPN called today's guest the greatest endurance athlete of all time. Today we welcome Mark Allen to the Final Surge Podcast. Mark has been coaching online since 2001 and recently moved his training platform over to Final Surge. We talk about how he got into triathlons and what it was like in 1989 to break through and finally win his first Kona race.

How did you get started with endurance athletics

• 1968 Watching Olympics
• Fascinated with distance swim
• Joined the local swim team
• After college thought would be done with athletics then saw Ironman

When was your first Ironman?

• October 1982 Dave Scott was in the race
• Came out of the water right behind Scott
• Halfway through bike was still with him
• Derailer broke and was forced out of the race

What was your relationship with Dave Scott like?

• Intense rivalry
• Healthy rivalry where we respected each other as people and athletes

1989 things really started clicking for you, what changed in 1989 that made you so dominant?

• Was 0-6 in Ironman but knew had not had my best race there
• In 1989 focused on solid swim, bike and run not focus on a win
• Started training longer days
• Instead of trying to pull away early I waited until later
• Mind went quiet in the race and things changed
• Just enjoyed the moment and each mile started getting better late in the race

Do you contribute the success of that 1989 race to the mindset change or the training longer?

• Combination of both
• Wasn't any one thing, was a bunch of small things

Do you feel the changes that you made came from your experience or did coaches help you identify where you needed to make changes?

• Almost completely self-coached
• Were no triathlon coaches, had running, swim and bike advisors

How did you make the transition into triathlon coaching?

• Won Ironman in 95 and started to think about what was next
• In 96 knew it would be last Ironman and someone asked to be coached
• Other athletes heard and coaching started to grow
• The time it takes to develop plan was a lot
• 2001 launched the first edition of online coaching to save time
• Started earlier this year with Final Surge
• Took this long to get it where I want it to be

What makes your training platform unique

• Great mix of science and experience
• A gap between what science knows and what we get to experience in the real world
• So much personal experience seeing what works over a long time frame

There are all types of people looking to do triathlons, everything from a hobby jogger looking to do their first local triathlon up to those looking to qualify for Kona. What is your target audience?

• Service is for anyone, have helped many first time athletes
• Most are 70.3 or full Ironman competitors
• Many have experience in running or biking and looking to do something different

When someone signs up, what can they expect to see as far as plans?

• No templates
• Everything based on what you input for information
• We have racing and maintenance plans
• Can choose between 8, 11 or 14 workouts a week
• Includes strength training
• You control days you do your workouts and you can move things around

If someone has questions inside the platform what are their options?

• Social wall can ask for help
• Can message me directly through the platform with questions you have

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute

Favorite endurance/running book? - Fit Soul Fit Body Current trainers you are wearing? - Salming Favorite race? - Ironman Hawaii Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - BBQ fish on a toasted bun with mayo and avocado Your favorite workout - 3-4 day stage ride

Resources

Mark Allen Training Plans https://www.finalsurge.com/MarkAllen/Plans Mark Allen Coaching Blog https://blog.markallencoaching.com/ Mark Allen on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/markallengrip/

Parker Stinson is one of the top young American distance runners around and is known for his aggressiveness. In episode 97 we talk to Parker about his first marathon and how he went for it and hear about how that plan blew up on him. Parker shares with us what the game plan is for the Chicago Marathon. We have some amazing world class athletes and coaches scheduled over the next few weeks, so make sure you hit subscribe on your favorite podcasting app so you don't miss any of the action.

How did you get started running when you were young?

• 11-12 years old father and sister were training
• AAU Nationals vs Club Soccer and Hockey
• Went to Oregon

Why did you choose Oregon?

• I just wanted a scholarship to any school
• Went to 2008 Trials at Oregon and never saw anyone care about track like that
• Junior year won State and made US Juniors team and Oregon became a possibility

Oregon is a tough environment. You are expected to win Pac-12 and compete at nationals. Did that help you get ready for a professional career?

• You need to score at the conference meet and get to nationals or hey will find someone who will
• Made me tough and taught me to get better and be prepared

You said when considering Oregon you thought it was a good place for a professional runner. Did you identify early that you wanted to be a professional runner?

• I never knew what it meant, but yes was what I was working for
• Towards the end of college, options became real and understood it

Often times a 26-year old is still focusing on the track, but you have moved to the marathon. Are you done with the track now?

• Focusing on the marathon, but not done with track
• I want to work on track to focusing on things like the 10k

What was the worst race experience you ever had?

• Junior year in Oregon running great 3rd a Pac-12
• Went to NCAA's and felt strung out before the race
• Nationals finished 240th out of 244

What did you learn from that experience?

• Started working with a sports psychologist
• Realized I had some allergies issues that lead to panic attacks

Why Colorado to live and train?

• I signed with Sacouny
• Had Achilles surgery where could not run
• Was looking for a change of scenery
• Knew Brad Hudson

Brad is best known for his marathon training was CIM your idea or his?

• Wasn't my idea
• Was a good idea to get the ball rolling towards i
• We were planning on running Houston but felt ready earlier

During CIM Twitter was blowing up on your race and how you were going for it, can you walk us through that ace?

• Ran like training: No fear
• I had no plan to be alone, but they did not come with me
• I kept telling myself I was going too fast but splits stayed consistent
• Mile 12 started having a little pain in the calf
• Mile 18-19 I was still shocked was running so fast and decided to slow down a little
• Then it hit me the last couple of miles and was passed at mile 23
• Finished at 7:00/mile pace

The next day what your conversation with the coach like?

• We knew we were going to run hard and not care what anything else thinks
• Disappointed because I could have pulled it off, but understood

What is the goal for Chicago?

• Break 2:11
• I feel like im in better shape than that right now
• I want to execute a good race
• I need a good marathon mark on the boards

We recently talked to Aaron Braun about his Chicago, do you ever plan to run together with someone like that?

• If the 2:05 guys go that fast we could have our own separate race
• Would love to have a couple Americans break 2:11
• Problem is some are more laid back and I am more aggressive

How has your training been going to date?

• Amazing, way better than the lead up to CIM
• Been working on a video series
• 35k at 5:12 pace in Boulder workout
• I am fit enough, just don't want to get hurt or overdue it now

What has changed a lot in your workouts now that you are a marathon runner?

• Fueling has been huge
• Longer fast runs
• Gone from 7-day calendar to 10-day calendar with more rest

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute

Favorite endurance/running book? - Running with the Buffaloes Current trainers you are wearing? - Sacounty Triump iso 4 Favorite race? - 1/2 marathon Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Smoothie with extra protien Your favorite workout - Long Fast Runs

Resources Parker Stinson on Instagram Parker Stinson on Twitter Parker Stinson Endure

What happens when an endurance junkie sees a problem? A new company is formed, at least that is how Orange Mud came about. Today on episode 96 of the Final Surge podcast we talk to Josh Sprague about his endurance career and how that lead him to redesign water packs with his company Orange Mud.

We want to spend some time talking about your company Orange Mud, but before we get into that can you tell us how you first got your start in endurance athletics?

• Adventure racing
• Noticed ways to make hydration easier

Adventure racing, you don't hear about that as much any more, do you think it is because of the rise in obstacle races?

• Cost, organization
• The barrier to entry was higher with adventure
• Ultra racing is easier to organize
• Was expensive

What's the most interesting adventure race you ever did?

• Calico Yosemite Race

What endurance athletics are you focusing on these days?

• Ultra-running
• Endurance mountain bike races
• Gravel biking
• Leadville

You have done a lot of different endurance events, where did this love for endurance sports come from?

• Country boy in Kansas
• Everyone was a long distance call so always was playing outside
• Learned to explore

You own a successful start-up company, you have a family, how do you find a time to get it all done, do you have any time management secrets or tips?

• I told my wife I would only do my main training during the workday
• I avoid training on the weekends unless riding with kids

Let's talk about Orange Mud. You are probably known best for your hydration packs obviously, but also wraps, clothing and even awesome looking vintage trucker caps on your website. How did you get your start?

• Backpacks were one side
• Clothing was me wanting better clothing
• Trucker caps were really successful
• We focused on quality

What is with the name Orange Mud?

• My middle name is Clay and always liked it
• Played with a bunch of Clay names and purchased a lot of domains
• Clay is a mud and that name just worked better

What was your first product?

• Hydtraquiver bottle carrier

Can you walk us through how that came about?

• I noticed upper back didn't move when ran, so focused on that area
• I wanted a place for a bottle and cash, keys and phone
• A place for nutrition quick access area

How many variations before you came up with one before you thought it was ready?

• The first product was 18
• Most of the early products were 17-23 variations before I was happy with it

At what point did you realize this was a great product and you thought you could bring it to the masses?

• Started in spring 2012, fall of 2012 we went to market with a functional and durable product
• 10 months in we launched with an Indiegogo campaign

What makes the Orange Mud different than other packs?

• We put the bottle on the center of the back
• We use a regular bottle so you can use almost any bottle you want
• Our packs are smaller and more stable than others

How hard was it to break into retail, it is a tough business dominated by big brands?

• Big brands have the name, we focus on specialty stores, not big-box locations
• Specialty stores often carry the same as big-box locations
• We make it in the USA

What is next, what new products do you have coming out

• Working on a new handheld
• High-performance rain jacket/pants

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute

Favorite endurance/running book? - Endurance - Shackelton Current trainers you are wearing? - On Running Favorite race? - The Hawk in Kansas Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Infinite Nutrition Repair Fruit Punch Your favorite workout - Anything on a mountain bike

Resources Orange Mud on Instagram Orange Mud on Twitter Orange Mud Website

How do you improve on a top 3 American place at the Chicago Marathon? We talk to NAZ Elite runner Aaron Braun about exactly that. Aaron was the leader of the 2017 Chicago Marathon at about 25k, we talk to him about what was going through his mind then. Aaron will be blogging about his 2018 training on Final Surge. Make sure you check the show notes to view the blog.

How did you get your start in running?

• Active kid played soccer and football
• Elementary School got 2nd place in a citywide mile race
• Once I got into high school loved the team aspect of cross country
• Recruited by a few D1 schools
• Ended up at Adams State - D2 school

When did it change and you became a fan of running?

• Mostly in college

When did you decide it possible to run as a professional?

• My third year, but the sophomore year of running I was second at Nationals
• Coaches planted a seed it is possible

How did you get connected with NAZ Elite and Coach Ben Rosario

• When I was training in Flagstaff earlier we became friends
• As he started his team we stayed in touch
• 2016 I called him about joining the team

Was Ben's passion for a marathon a factor in choosing a team?

• That was one of the big factors
• We wanted to get back to Flagstaff was another factor
• Had maxed potential at shorter races so wanted to maximize the marathon

When did your thought of retirement come in?

• 2015 and 2016 I was injured a lot and the thought entered my mind
• On July 4th in 2016, I did a 5k in Fort Collins and surprised myself how well I did
• Decided to give running one more chance

You have the Chicago Marathon coming up that you blogging about on Final Surge. Last year you found yourself at the front of the pack halfway. Was that the plan?

• No pacemakers so we thought it was a possibility
• Was surprised how long it lasted
• The plan was to run an even pace and get locked in

What is your goal for Chicago this year?

• Want to improve placement and time

You can set a goal for a major race, but anything can happen. It is hard to keep improving each race. What advice do you have for age group runners who may be having a hard time dealing with not hitting PR's?

• I had that problem early in my college career
• Was hard when I did not PR in a season
• Now I can look at a race and say did I give my best effort I could today based on how I was feeling

When did you start your buildup for Chicago

• July 8th was last race of the summer
• Took a week off and jumped back into training

What races do you have planned between now and Chicago

• US 20k Championships

I noticed from your training log you recently did a 4-mile tempo run on the track. How often do you do those on the track vs roads or trails?

• Very rarely
• Was alternating 800's so pacing was easier

What has been your toughest workout this cycle?

• 2x1mile at 4:50 with 3min rest then ten mile run alternating paces, then 2 more miles at 4:50, but ran 4:42 and 4:46

When you are doing a marathon training cycle is there a workout you like to do that gives you a gauge of your fitness level compared to the prior training cycle?

• We use the long steady state as a barometer the last few miles we ignore pace and go by feel so we get a good gauge of our fitness based on that effort

What can the readers expect from your Chicago Marathon blogging?

• What I am doing and the thinking of why we are doing what we are doing
• Feedback on workouts and how I was feeling
• Updated weekly

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute

Favorite endurance/running book? - Matt Fitzgerald How Bad Do You Want It Current trainers you are wearing? - Hoka Clifton, Mach and Challenger Favorite race? - Bolder Boulder 10k Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Egg Sandwich and milkshake Your favorite workout - 4x400 max effort with long recovery

Resources

Aaron Braun blogging about Chicago Aaron Braun on Twitter https://twitter.com/aaBrauny Aaron Braun on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/aabrauny Final Surge on Twitter https://twitter.com/finalsurge

Matt Fitzgerald has had some challenging goals, but this may be the most challenging yet. Today we talk to Matt Fitzgerald about his quest to qualify for Kona after not having done an Ironman in over a decade and also about his new book which is the 80/20 Triathlon.

Last time we talked to you, you had just finished your Running Bum challenge and you were working on a book, when is that coming out?

• 2020

Your latest challenge is called Kona or Bust, can you tell is about that?

• Unfinished business
• Marathon was about breaking 2:40
• I was 23 seconds short of qualifying for Kona in my one Ironman
• 23 seconds were there, I could have got them

You never did another Ironman?

• I have registered for some, but never made it to the start line
• Injuries always come up
• Starting to have some now
• I have 9 more months to get ready so not rushing it

Your goal is to qualify for Kona, where are you going to need to be?

• Doing Ironman Santa Rosa
• Mens 45-49 age group
• Last year was under 9:30 for the win of my age group
• Depends on who shows up and how many in the age group
• If I don't make it this time I will try again next year

How did you pick your race?

• Looking to stay close to home
• Didn't want to play a game, just knew I needed to be fit
• Not many who can run a 2:39 marathon so I know if I can stay healthy I have a shot

Is your goal to qualify for Kona or are you looking to be competitive in Kona and compete?

• 1998 was the first year I was at Kona to report on it
• I was exhausted spending the day on that course
• I swore I would never do Kona
• It is more about qualifying as I am not awesome in heat
• I would do the race, but with lower expectations

When you were doing the Running Bum challenge you built up to 90 miles a week, are you close to that still?

• No, I knew the biggest mistake I could make was to keep that going
• Smart thing was to take a step back
• I am better not running every day that is why triathlon was so attractive

When is the last time you really trained in the pool and on the bike?

• 2009 after the Boston Marathon was training seriously for triathlon

What was it like getting in the pool for the first time after a decade?

• Dreadful
• I am comfortable with water but was not training
• Swimming so technique dependent

The new book is your 80/20 Triathlon, what brought about this book?

• When we mimic the training of pro's and their 80/20 we get best results
• I wrote 80/20 running in 2014
• Triathlons asked for a version

Is 80/20 still optimal in the pool where the impact on the body is less?

• Swimmers, even short sprint swimmers, train at high volume and 80/20 is relevant
• Cannot train at all high intensity because will fry yourself

You mentioned getting stuck in the grey zone rut, want to talk about a few ways that happen?

• This book is different than the 80/20 running
• I put in a list of why people get caught in the rut
• Less genetically gifted athletes our ranges are a lot smaller
• There are 8 reasons in the book, the biggest may be the natural pace compromise

One of the things I loved about this book is you give plans but you also it teaches you how to build plans. One you talk a lot about your zones. You talk about power meters, do you use a Stryd Power Meter?

• It is legit, I have used it
• I have not made it a regular part of my training, but it is a useful tool
• Makes my job easier with some athletes I coach

Have you found since you worked with the NAZ group that you do more strength/stretching?

• Yes I took that with me

Resources

Kona or Bust https://www.finalsurge.com/KonaOrBust

Website http://mattfitzgerald.org/ Twitter https://twitter.com/mattfitwriter Training Plans https://finalsurge.com/TrainingPlans/Fitzgerald

Stryd Power Meter http://bit.ly/strydfs

This week we look at what may be the hottest thing in professional team endurance racing, the Major League Triathlon series. Welcome to episode 93 of the Final Surge Podcast. This week Daniel Cassidy the founder of the Major League Triathlon series joins us to talk about how he got the idea for creating a professional triathlon series and where he sees the growth in the future. If you enjoy this episode please head over to iTunes and rate and review the podcast and please don't forget to subscribe to the show.

How did you get your start in endurance athletics?

• Started racing triathlons as a senior in high school
• Played hockey and baseball until an injury
• Swam/biked to rehab knee and became good

Tell us what the Major League Triathlon is?

• As competing girlfriend was frustrated with how long it took as a spectator
• Saw need to take friends and family members into consideration
• Wanted to make it more exciting to people and grow the sport of triathlon

How does it work?

• Mixed team relay
• 2 men and 2 women per team
• 300m swim, 4-mile bike, 1-mile run and tag to teammate
• One hour and 20 minutes or less
• One square mile or less footprint
• Have 9 teams

So longest leg is on the bike and 4 miles, is this looped or an out and back?

• Loop all courses 4-6 loops on bike and 3 on the run

You mentioned 9 teams, how does the season work, is there a playoff?

• Point system from each race
• Last race counts for 1.5x typical points

Do you have other people participating or just professionals?

• Started to do some other races throughout the weekend
• Playing with other ideas to get other people involved

Is the shorter distance also done to get new people involved as it doesn't seem as intimidating?

• Want to give racers a chance to race more
• Shorter translate into making it easier to watch
• Want to grow exposure for triathlon

Like any sport, it's who is involved that makes it work or not. How has the reception been from professionals?

• Just about everyone who has a shot at 2020 is involved
• Every athlete involved has a shot at making the 2020 Olympics team
• Athletes racing love it which is causing more people to reach out

With the short races and team aspect I would think this would be attractive to TV, have you been talking to any of them?

• Yes we have had conversations with television networks
• It is in our future

Have you thought about doing other distances?

• We likely won't change the distance
• We are working on super sprint individual races

How about the weekend, is this just race day or do you have expos and exhibits?

• Focus on race day
• Do have expo and live music
• Beer gardens and food trucks
• Kid zones

How do you decide where you are doing them?

• We have Atlantic City, Colorado, Tempe and Charlotte
• Plan on staying in those locations but adding on other locations

Do you think triathlons are growing as a sport or do you think it has been stagnant?

• In the US has leveled off some
• Need to attract the younger audience

To last, it needs to be profitable which means you need a product which is athletes people want to see as well as sponsors. What are you doing to make it attractive to sponsors?

• Amplifying reach with online streaming
• 8,000 people at an event are good, but nothing like big sports games so online is important
• Engagement rates and views are growing

When a family or friend of a professional triathlete goes to a race they have hours to spend, how did this play into your planning?

• Community event with food trucks
• Want vendors to be interactive not just products
• Music

What races are left this season?

• Sept 22nd, Tempe AZ
• Oct 6th, Charlotte for Championship

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute Favorite endurance/running book? - Pass Current trainers you are wearing? - APL Favorite race? - 70.3 San Juan Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Chipotle Your favorite workout - Hour and a half long run

Resources

Website https://majorleaguetri.com/ Twitter https://twitter.com/majorleaguetri Instagram https://www.instagram.com/majorleaguetri Facebook https://www.facebook.com/majorleaguetriathlon/

Why would a professional triathlete decide to take on a Fastest Known Time 5-day challenge of the Long Trail in Vermont? We had Alyssa Godesky on to talk about why she did it and to talk about the challenges she faced. As a professional triathlete and an ultra-marathon runner, Alyssa was no stranger to pain, but the pain of covering 273 miles and over 63,000 feet of elevation is something different.

How did you get your start in athletics?

• Did not do a college sport, played soccer competitively through high school
• At Naval Academy joined Navy Marathon Team - Ran JFK 50-mile to qualify for the team
• Transferred schools and started trail running
• Moved to Baltimore after school and joined Baltimore Running Crew group
• Tried triathlons and stayed with them

You race many triathlons and ultra races. How do you train for both of these at the same time and remain competitive?

• Had years of base miles with ultra racing that can build on
• Ironman training is harder effort training and running more endurance easy miles

What is the difference between Ironman and long Ultra on your body?

• Early on Ironman was just finishing
• Now impact is comparable because goes hard in swim and bike

When did you get to the point about leaving your career to pursue triathlons as a professional athlete?

• 2009 started thinking about it
• Started working with Hillary Biscay in 2011
• Started getting serious about the idea in 2013
• Jan 1, 2014, officially left the job to train and coach

What did parents and friends think of leaving a good job to go after this dream?

• They were worried but supportive

Let's talk about your latest adventure and your quest for a fastest known time on the Long Trail in Vermont. You just spent 5 days conquering the trail, before we get to the how, let's star with they why?

• Always looking for challenges
• Was on the bucket list and wanted to get it done before the end of career
• Always fascinated with records
• 2011 became aware of the FKT's
• Scouted pars of the trail in October and had doubts

How long is the trail?

• 273 miles plus need to hike in and out so longer

Why specifically the Long Train in Vermont?

• Out west more elevation but east coast are more rugged so wanted to do east coast
• Vermont in summer sounded good

What is the terrain like on the trail?

• Almost all single track
• No switchbacks, straight up and down mountains
• Elevation gain about 63,000 feet total
• The first two days had longer climbs

What is the key to a long effort like this, are you paying attention to heart rate, pace, just how you feel?

• How you feel
• Much of the training was hiking
• Trying to stay relaxed and upright

How much sleeping did you get?

• First day 4 hours, about 17 hours total over 5 days

Anything you did to be prepared for sleep deprivation?

• Not really much you can do
• More important to train self to sleep anywhere, anytime

What was the biggest struggle you had on this FKT?

• The last day
• Weather had made trails towards end slippery and on top of lack of sleep made it hard

Would you do another one of these again?

• Yes, this one was supported, next time maybe do a solo

You also have your own podcast, IronWomen, what types of guests and topics do you have?

• Started to give a voice to professional female triathletes and what they are doing
• Third season

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute Favorite endurance/running book? - Pursuit of Endurance Current trainers you are wearing? - Brooks Ghost 3 Favorite race? - Ironman Wisconsin Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Rehab 3:1 FTC Your favorite workout - Hill Repeats

Resources

Website http://alyssagodesky.com/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/alyssagodesky/

Twitter https://twitter.com/alyssagodesky

FKT Site - FastestKnownTime.com

Podcast IronwomenPodcast.com

Are you struggling to get the most out of your racing? In episode 91 of the Final Surge Podcast we talk with Shannon Thompson a sports psychology and mental performance expert at Hypo2Sport in Flagstaff where she works with professional runners and the 2x defending national cross country championship team from NAU. Shannon is going to tell you how to break down your race and get the most out of it mentally.

How did you get involved in the psychology field?

• 3-day eventing athlete and coach
• Rode professionally for 12 years and coached for 10
• Could see the role the mind played in performance and training

Your running career?

• Parents were road races and marathoners
• Ran some as a rider
• Got a boyfriend who was an ultrarunner

At the 2-hour marathon attempt, they asked Kipchoge how his training was going to be different. He replied it wasn't going to be, his mind was going to be. We also know from Dovid Goggins and Navy Seal Training that when your body is done and you do a test of our muscles it shows there is plenty of glycogen left to keep going. So everyone fails before their body really does. What is it that makes some be able to push more than others?

• Central governor theory
• Stress

We have known about the central governor since noakes wrote about it in, so we have had time to study it, What have we learned about if we can change our relationship with the central governor?

• Study with faces flashed positive and negative
• Study where coaches gave them false positive feedback
• Mental performance plan

Let's take that false positive. If someone is struggling in a race is there anything that can be said to change it or is the athlete's performance or is it they are just having a bad day?

• Tone matters
• Task oriented
• Don't freak out
• Energy matters - Stand and speak with purpose
• You can catch those three guys

Let's talk about race plans and the mental game. Running is different than team sports. In most team sports, baseball, football, or even individual sports like tennis or golf you do your play or movement and then have time to think. Running or triathlon you are going and you keep going for several minutes or hours. So I would think the mental game is different. How do you come up with a mental gameplan for endurance athletes?

• Divide into 1/3 or 1/4
• Each section a word or focus point
• Needs to be worked on in practice

Can have two runners on a college team who workout and live and eat together, but on race day one outperformes the other. How much of that difference could be mental?

• Many things we do not know, we need to get to know the people involved
• We don't try to compare athletes to each other

If you are sitting down with that runner who is struggling, what type of questions do you ask them to gauge if it is a mental block?

• Explore past races when they were their best
• Find patterns

Can you give us an example of how you break down your races into 1/3s?

• We talk about things we need to do daily, the night before a race, the day of a race, warm ups etc
• First 1/3 is usually about patience
• Second 1/3 is gratitude or love
• Final 1/3 something about them being tough self

I Heard you at the NAU camp a couple of weeks ago. You had a great story about love and how love can have an impact. Can you share that story with our listeners?

• Noticed from interviewing runners their best race stories usually involve love

What are some common traits you see between those who excel and those who struggle?

• Excel - Seek out advice, humble, inclusive, more relaxed
• They love the process

We know you work with college and professional athletes. What do you notice the difference in ages and how things change?

• HS athletes are harder on themselves

We hear a lot about positive thinking. We all know this is important. But let's look at just this last year's Boston Marathon. Desi's self-talk early was I don't feel good. I am going to try to help Flanagan my Olympic Team member, so her self-talk didn't seem to be great. Yet she went on to win. So what do you think happened there?

• The desire to help her friend gave her purpose

Is there much research that shows a correlation between stress and physical ailments?

• Not the level of stress that impacts their health, it is the belief about their stress
• If you believe stress is going to have an impact vs a challenge you are looking forward to, it will have a bigger impact

Books recommend?

• Mindset by Carol Dweck
• Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihaly
• The Rise of Superman by Steven Kotler
• Upside of Stress by Kelly McGonigal
• Psyching for Sports by Terry Orlick
• Mans Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl
• Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach
• When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chödrön
• Talent Code and Culture Code by Daniel Coyle

One thing we hear a lot about these days is mindfulness can you talk about how you use and teach it?

• Corework for brain
• If the core is strong you stay more stable
• Quiets noise in the brain
• Increase brains ability to pay attention

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute Favorite endurance/running book? - Momentum Current trainers you are wearing? - Nike React Favorite race? - Sun Run 10k Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Dense and sweet like fudge or icing Your favorite workout - Technical downhill

Resources

Email [email protected]

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/shannonleighthompson

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/positivevoices/

Website https://highperformanceinstitute.mykajabi.com/blog/

Today we welcome professional runner Garrett Heath of the Brooks Beast Team. Garrett was a 9-time All-American at Standford before turning professional. Garrett won the 2014 and 2015 Edinburgh Cross Country short course races before beating Mo Farah in the world championships in 2016. We catch up with Garrett about what his plans are for the future and talk to him about a time he almost took out a rabbit in a race.

How did you get your start in running?

• Running across the gym in kindergarten and lead to stitches in forehead
• Was always outdoor and active growing up
• Middle school my father pushed me away from football so tried cross country running

You ran for a great program in high school did that help keep you interested?

• Was exposed to high school team while in middle school

There are many successful runners who came out of Minnesota and many of them seemed to spend a lot of time cross country skiing in the winter, did you do much skiing?

• Did almost all skiing in winter
• Does keep up fitness, but grow upper body mass and lose a little in the legs

You had a great career at Stanford and I've heard in your college career your coach had some interesting ways to work on overspeed work?

• Used a Vespa and attacked long bungee cord on the back and around our waist and would pull you around the track
• Seems crazy now, but made us run fast from 100-400 meters

When did you know that you wanted to try your hand at professional running?

• Didn't even realize it was a thing until I was in college
• Junior year started thinking how it could happen
• Junior year went and did a few races in Europe which exposed me to it

What was it like running in Europe, how was it different?

• Meets are like 10-hours in college while over there it is more of a spectator event and entertainment so meets are just a few hours
• Really physical

Sounds like there is a model of how to make track and field a success with the public, why don't you think we do this in the US?

• Trying, some races do, some mile races
• College meets too long
• Track Town did a great job with this too

First time you broke 4 minutes in the mile?

• At U of Washington. My brother was running at the Junior Cross Country Championships at the same time in Boulder. I was super excited and at the same time my brother was running and won the US Junior race.

You are now running with Danny Mackey and Brooks Beast Team, how did that connection happen?

• Was running with friends, but they started joining other teams so ended up doing a lot of solo time
• Liked the resources they had available, much like a college team

Early in your career, you focused more on the 1500, then you started with some 5ks but this year you ran a good 10k at the Payton Jordan. Where do you see yourself focusing going forward?

• Getting more used to the longer grinding workouts/runs
• Still, enjoy the 1500, but I am turning into more of a 5/10k guy
• Still unfinished busienss in the 5k and just starting with the 10k

You have had a lot of success running longer distances in cross country, how different is it racing those bad weather cross contry races vs a controlled track race?

• XC you need to change your efforts a lot more like a fartlek
• XC races go by a lot quicker, different things to think about
• Track try to turn off brain

If money and everything were the same would you make a living on the track, roads or xc course?

• Cross Country
• Love the team aspect even on national teams

You have mentioned a few times about the mental aspect of of racing, how much time do you spend working on your mental game?

• The mental game is huge
• Need to work on it in practice
• Being confident in training goes along with it

Not sure how much you pay attention to Let's Run, but One of the posts from January this year asked who is most jacked Chris Solinsky vs. Garrett Heath vs. Ben True. So how much do you lift and work on strength?

• We did not lift in college hardly at all
• Most of that came from cross country skiing and trying to get rid of some of that upper body weight
• With Brooks and I spend 45 mins 2x a week, but more minimalist lifting than others on the team

One thing a lot of casual observers of our sport may not realize is when you run for a team, it is not like running for a professional football or baseball team with a huge salary. What is that relationship like with your sponsors?

• Spend a lot of time in Brooks office
• Coming out of college was blind to how it worked
• Talked to a lot of agents in the day right after finished NCAA
• The problem was it was in 2009 downturn was not any money
• Really tough sport because the market is limited
• Also, run for Roka Sunglasses

Final Surge round, 5 questions in under a minute Favorite endurance/running book? - Running with the Buffaloes Current trainers you are wearing? - Brooks Glycerin Favorite race? – Edinburgh Cross Country Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? – Chocolate Chip Pancakes Your favorite workout – Long Tempos

https://www.instagram.com/garrettheath

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Twitter https://twitter.com/_garrettheath